Spell Mods

[Rmx]

Well i could be a mini - mini - mini MOD like BerZeKeR ..

Still i am not that good so i cannot be a mod

 

[Dark_Dragon]

well in my option it would be the mest to have mini-mods who can simple accept the spells which do not leak are original and follow the rules... well such a people will need a good knowledge of GUI and ofc basic of Jass. then the real mods should check the mini-approved spells in details. it would be the best 2-3 mods and 2-3 mini-mods. thats what i think but its true that there are not so much people who can really be a real mods. currently who i think could be is Deaod... while talking with him and when he commented on my spell i realized he has 100% enough knowledge to be a mod. however his bad point is that he is too strict (in my option). and he can only be a jass/vjass mod coz he hates GUI.

for mini mods there should not be the problem to find best people here who know GUI and a little of Jass. however main real mods are a different story. and as Eccho said its not just that someone who made a good spell can be a mod... it needs fare more knowledge and understanding on how everything is actually handled...

i wish that spell section gets cleared of all this mess but still!
however its not just that we choose who can be the mod coz that one must accept it to and i wish that who ever accepts to be mod, would not just be able to do his job for one week...

spell rules should deff be changed! well i do not see point of positing code coz mods will anyway need to dl it and test it... + if spell maker forgets to update his code again it might be a mess... well anyway i dont care if someone posts the code or not i always like to check code in map directlly to be 100% sure its a real code...

i think that Deuteriums idea of having pending, approved and deleted section is awesome and would be great for anyone who wants to dl the real spells... i dont like that user needs to think reading comments and such does spell leak or is it MUI and all that...

all approved spells must be MUI, Leakless and lag free...

btw i did not know Hanky will not come back... i thought he will be back as soon as he is done with his job :S

in my point of view i can say few good jassers: xD.Schurke, -JonNny, Deaod... i think they are one of best jassers currently, well this is my experience and seeing about them.

still Deaod is the best currently as fare as i saw he never made mistake at least while speaking with me.

xD.Schurke and -JonNny are quite good and i think that for mini-mods they are perfect... still real mods need to be like Hanky or Eccho... they are experts.

well this is how i see all this and i would really like that spell section gets cleared and find a few mods...

Greets all!
~Dark Dragon

 

[Eccho]

well in my option it would be the mest to have mini-mods who can simple accept the spells which do not leak are original and follow the rules... well such a people will need a good knowledge of GUI and ofc basic of Jass. then the real mods should check the mini-approved spells in details. it would be the best 2-3 mods and 2-3 mini-mods. [...]

That could actually work. I mean, two stages like "inner" and "outer" filtrations. A spell must first be accepted through the general spell rules and such, by users who knows enough about those leaks and so on. If they get approved, then pass the spells further to a moderator queue (or semi- I dont know), which will give it a review and a rating.
2 moderators is what we need at least I guess.

for mini mods there should not be the problem to find best people here who know GUI and a little of Jass. however main real mods are a different story. and as Eccho said its not just that someone who made a good spell can be a mod... it needs fare more knowledge and understanding on how everything is actually handled...

I just want to point out, it's not you who ask to become a moderator in general... It is the moderators and/or admins who decides that, and asks.

spell rules should deff be changed! well i do not see point of positing code coz mods will anyway need to dl it and test it... + if spell maker forgets to update his code again it might be a mess... well anyway i dont care if someone posts the code or not i always like to check code in map directlly to be 100% sure its a real code...

That is why the extractor will kick in. Ofcourse, having the user prasing the code would be less painful for us now, but like you say, there will always be users who don't know this and don't know that, how to parse, how to... Anyway this extractor simply does the job for the user (if it will work so to speak). When a user submits a resource, the extractor will scan the archive and parse the Gui/Jass script. The reason why we would need it is because we could easier filter out spells that do not follow the rules or have major flaws etc.

Regarding the spell rules, they are, like we've said, changed already. I guess I could have a work with DSG and see if we should post the revisited spell rules here to the public.

I think that Deuteriums idea of having pending, approved and deleted section is awesome and would be great for anyone who wants to dl the real spells... i dont like that user needs to think reading comments and such does spell leak or is it MUI and all that...

I think the same. It would be like the old system thw once had.

 

[Dark_Dragon]

I just want to point out, it's not you who ask to become a moderator in general... It is the moderators and/or admins who decides that, and asks.

that is a must ofc. well first of all we should ask admin about this and see what he thinks... all that what i said was simple just a suggestion.

That is why the extractor will kick in. Ofcourse, having the user prasing the code would be less painful for us now, but like you say, there will always be users who don't know this and don't know that, how to parse, how to... Anyway this extractor simply does the job for the user (if it will work so to speak). When a user submits a resource, the extractor will scan the archive and parse the Gui/Jass script. The reason why we would need it is because we could easier filter out spells that do not follow the rules or have major flaws etc.

Regarding the spell rules, they are, like we've said, changed already. I guess I could have a work with DSG and see if we should post the revisited spell rules here to the public.

having a extractor like that would be quite awesome and would save a lot of time...

---------------------------

all other what u said is fully understandable!

Greets!
~Dark Dragon

 

[Deuterium]

One comment about the extractor and why I believe (no offense to all the people working on it) why it won't work.

Let's say I'm working on the test-map and I want to make it all nice and fancy, before I even start with the spells I would have the following triggers:
- Map Reveal
- ESC Reset
- Creep Reviving
- etc...

I'm not a programmer, but I know something about programs, if you don't tell them exactly what to do they don't function properly. What I'm saying here, unless the program is defined not to extract the trigger called "Extras" - or whatever you want to call it - then it'll extract everything. So if the program is used, everyone is going to be obliged to name his "unnecessary" triggers using a certain standard so that the program understand that it's supposed to ignore such triggers. And not everyone would be doing that, so guess what, we trying getting rid of mess by creating mess; not much of a great idea!

But one thing I don't understand, are Eccho and Dr. Super Good resigning from being Mods or they'd be in the new teams?

Because if they are staying, then searching for Main Mods would be no problem as we already have Eccho and Dr. Super Good. Everyone agrees that they are the most qualified too.


So people, I think the plan should be determined as soon as possible, thus I ask the Mods and the active people in the spells section to start stating their plans for how the whole thing should be divided (table form would be appreciated as it's the easiest to read).

Keep the ideas coming!

EDIT:

I just want to point out, it's not you who ask to become a moderator in general... It is the moderators and/or admins who decides that, and asks.

Yes very true, but having the people propose the idea of them becoming moderators would ease the job of the admins and mods when it comes to picking them as then they have a list of who to pick and they got to think of how the people in the list could contribute. That instead of having the admins and mods making the list - which could be exhausting - and then having to pick from it...

 

[Eccho]

I already know that Ralle's extactor can separate different trigger categories. Simply, the easiest way without causing confusion would be to make every category in "hidden" tags or something.

So, the result would be:

ForThisMapOnly

Trigger 1 blalabla
Trigger 2 blablabla

Revelant Spell Code Here

Trigger 1 blalabla
Trigger 2 blablabla

The extractor is already able to find out if a trigger is a comment too, ran on map init, stuff like the trigger editor uses when it reads the trigger. I will not see any problem so far.

 

[Palaslayer]

The Overall Mods

• Eccho
• Dr Super Good

The GUI Mods

Semi-Mods

• Rmx
• Kingz

Mini-Mods
(I think each semi mod should suggest two mini mods)

• I'd like to suggest ME, BERZ or Roflcoptor

The vJass/Jass Mods

* 2 semi-mods
* 3 mini-mods


That'd be my suggestions for mods

 

[Deuterium]

The Overall Mods

• Eccho
• Dr Super Good

Definitely!

Semi-Mods

• Rmx
• Kingz

Agreeable upon... but language might be a slight handicap for both...

Mini-Mods
(I think each semi mod should suggest two mini mods)

• I'd like to suggest ME, BERZ or Roflcoptor

Well BZK definitely, and same for you Palas (I don't know much about you but I've seen some of your works), but I remember only seeing Roflcoptor around once... isn't he not that active of an user?

The vJass/Jass Mods

* 2 semi-mods
* 3 mini-mods

Well, Dark_Dragon and -JonNny would be my candidates, and as DD says Deaod and XD.Schurke... but who's semi and who's mini i don't know

And I really like the idea which you mentioned, that each semi-mod should mention two mini-mod... but that would depend on the numbers of mini-mods.
I mean if the numb is 3, then it'll be each picking one and one agreed upon... so yeah.

I already know that Ralle's extactor can separate different trigger categories. Simply, the easiest way without causing confusion would be to make every category in "hidden" tags or something.

Yes I get what you're saying, well it's gonna need some testing but hopefully it'll work


I already got couple PMs on people who are willing to help in the mod team...


EDIT:
I think Ralle should pass by and state his opinion on this whole issue...

 

[Rmx]

Well, i can write perfectly but i like not to scratch my head long enuff.

Still my language might be a slight handicap, but not that much.

I spam **LOOOOOOOL** alot.

 

[Palaslayer]

if you want, i can replace rmx. i at least have the skill to, but not the time.
yes, roflcoptor is sort of new to thehive but he learns fast and is modding for half a year already. i think he would work as a mini mod for me and do his job well. i just have to ask him whether he has the time to do so.

 

[Rmx]

Why no body likes me to be a mod, i think because i null GLOBALS.

 

[Palaslayer]

thats exactly the problem

I just did not want to suggest myself as a mod. I think doing it would be..äh..kinda inpolite or such. don't know exactly how it is called in english.

 

[Rmx]

Well i can just, not null the useless globals, and just null the necessary ones.

This is just unfair, i null globals and they don't want me as a mod.

 

[Palaslayer]

i would take you as a mod so that i would not have too much work.

 

[Rmx]

I don't want to be a mod out of Pity and do your bidding, i just like to be a mod if all choose to make me.

And why is Kingz better than me, i am equal to him in triggering also he just does not have grammar mistakes as i do.

 

[Palaslayer]

i think clinkz and i are on the same level of triggering though he might know a little bit more jass. i do not know rly, but i think you might be as well. so, the question is, who wants to make the job, who has enough time and of course who do the moderators chose to make the job.

 

[Rmx]

i think clinkz and i

Clinkz is that the hero in DOTA, i think you mean Kingz.

Ohh did i forgot to mention that Kingz have a hard time figure out my triggering.

He said so by himself, but i think because he does not have so much time to fiugre it out.

 

[Septimus]

At here, we adopt the motto of "Don't call us, we call you". If you want to be mod, remember that...

If there is anybody became the latest mod, I could send him a bunch of resources that are deem to be rules violation.

We have about 40-60+ spells that break every single rules.

 

[Palaslayer]

lol, clinkz >.<.

 

[Paladon]

At here, we adopt the motto of "Don't call us, we call you". If you want to be mod, remember that...

This thread is getting hilarious and partially a shame for each of you.
I can only agree with Septimus in that point.
I'm dropping out of this discussion, i think i brought my suggestions in.
Just allow me to give you a general advice:
Don't disgrace yourself.

 

[Eccho]

It's fine that you guys really care and that you want to see some spell section changes, but the conversation is starting to look like "who will be the next moderators". We dont even know if this ever will be applied. I'd say you are too eager for the right purpose...
There is no point in exaggerating either, and saying that you think you are the best, is the wrong way to go. We said it for some time. We find you, not vice versa. If there is anything more to add regarding how the section could be improved not whom will be adapted to help out, go ahead. Leave the rest, thank you.

 

[Septimus]

If you want to help, prove by action and not promise. I constantly seen a post said "I could help", "I am good" and etc etc which constantly just a hot breeze as most of them quit or been lazy after a period of time.

Want to help? show the action. Action speak louder than word; that is what I did when I was helping MasterHaosis when I am still new at here. Useless discussion of why I am better than him as mod which occuring at here right now is just a waste of time and energy.

Instead of wasting time saying why you are better or he isn't better, why not start to help the moderator right now by sorting out all those resources instead of sparking drama over here?

If any of you ever wondering why you are never promoted to be mod while you are better than anybody else in term of coding, there is only 1 valid reasons for it.

CLICK TO SEE THE REASON

You might be good at distinguish a good/bad resources, but you do not prove it with action.

No offense to anyone over here, my message at here are just trying to be as precise as possible.

 

[Palaslayer]

thats why i do not want myself as a mod semi-mod whatever. anyway, you are right. now is the time for the staff to do something and i hope they recognized the thread somehow thats what i intended with creating it.

 

[Yearight]

Hehe I just loved the end of this it's so drama... Who will be the new semi-mod, who is the best? Find out after the break.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Update on spell situation

As I can see many people are getting highly impatient for responses about whats going to happen with the Spells resource section. Thus I am posting an update.

Firstly, people are made spell moderators only by Rui and he comes to you, not the other way around. Resource moderation positions are not given away via request, but via invite only.

All spells moderators should be highly skilled with JASS scripting (all kinds). Just because it is GUI does not mean special people are needed. Sure, people like me can not really make or write GUI to the level of some people (due to bothering to use JASS instead of trying with GUI) but I am still able to understand how such triggers work and weathor they violate any Spell section rules. Thus unless you are noticably skilled with spells and systems of all kinds and are helping with them a lot, it is unlikly you will be invited and neithor does doing that garuntee being invited.

On the subject of rules, I decided to give everyone a sneak peek at the current planned Spells resource section rules.

Currently planned rules.

General Spell and System Rules

• Spells and Systems may not violate any general or specific site rules.
• Do not submit maps into the Spells section that you found on another site or that you did not make (unless you have permission to from whoever did).
• Submitted maps must be named using a title that best describes what it contains.
• The map or resource thread must contain implementation documentation that clearly states how to import the contained spells or systems.
• If your spell or system requires a third-party world editor like JassNewGenPack to modify or open then specifically mention what has been used.
• Do not remake spells or systems that already exist on this site unless yours differ or are better in some way.
• All images for submissions must use at least part of an in game screenshot of the spell or system being used. In the case of spell or system packs, only some of the content can be displayed.
• Submitted maps that can not be opened will automatically be rejected (if the map can be opened with a third-party world editor then mention it at the submission of the spell as moderators will not test the map for them).
• No custom imported content (models, skins, sounds, etc) are allowed in any submission unless they are absolutely required in order for it to work.
• No leaks are permitted in the functional triggers (or scripts) of any submission (testing map only and setup triggers are ignored).
• If any trigger code is used that is not made by you, some form of credits must be given to the author of the code.
• Noticeable effort must be put into the spell (quick under an hour jobs will be rejected).

JASS Rules (for both spells and systems)

• Code must avoid uselessly using BJ or similar functions (using natives generally is faster and easier).
• Code must be structured (if the code is hard to read or in block form, it is of little use to anyone).
• Code must be noticeably more efficient than the equivalent done in GUI (GUI->JASS conversions are horribly inefficient due to the nature of GUI).
• JASS Spells and Systems must be easy to configure by people with little JASS knowledge (use functions, constants or comment lines to allow easy customization).
• Logical function and variable names must be used to reduce the chances of a name clash (using JNGP scopes and libraries counts).

System Rules

General

• Systems must support either working for one player in single player or working for at least 6 players in multiplayer.
• Systems must be moderately complicated (take quite a bit of time to program from nothing).
• Systems must use reasonable computational resources (old computers should be able to run it with little noticeable frame rate reduction).
• The provided map must allow the system to be easily and thoroughly tested.
• Systems must be reliable and robust.

GUI

• Systems must use a static number of event driven triggers (having to create more event driven triggers to change content is not permitted).

JASS

• None

Spell Rules

General

• Plain object editor spells are not accepted, each spell submission must contain at least one trigger enhanced spell.
• Utility of spells is considered during moderation. Posting a silly and completely useless spell shall lead to it being rejected.
• Spells must be configurable for multiple levels (even if it is intended to be used as a one level only spell).
• Damaging spells must give bounty to the appropriate players.
• Do not use specific preplaced units or object that are on the map in the code of spells.
• Spells must use reason reasonable computational resources (not reduce frame rate greatly when cast after the first time).
• Spells must be free of major bugs and exploits (this includes timing and skill related issues which can arise).
• Spells must be able to be tested easily in the provided map under multiple and extreme conditions.

GUI

• Spells must be at least PUI or MPI (multiple units of distinct players are able to cast the spell at the same time with no bugs).

JASS

• Spells must be fully MUI (over 100 units are capable of casting them at once).

Violation of the above rules may result in a submission being rejected. Also perfect compliance with the rules does not guarantee a 5/5 rating (although it does a rating of at least 3/5).
Rejected spells will generally be provided with a list of corrections needed to be approvable and should be sent back to be moderated via an update unless otherwise stated.

Note that the above are still subject to amendments and do not represent what the rules may finally be changed to, only what is currently being planned.

The current plan for the rules (from both me and Eccho) is that they are quite boolean. By this I mean a submission will eithor pass the rule or fail the rule. This would allow spell moderators to easilly reject or approve a resource with out much room for argument. The rules are a tad stricter than before, but by doing this it garuntes people top quality resources only to choose from (reasonable quality).

As you can see there are many changes to the rules planned. Firstly it is divided into clear sections allowing people to only have to read what affects them. Secondly it will include the long awaited system rules, allowing for systems to actually need a standard to be approved. Thirdly it is capable of being used as a check list when finishing a spell or system map for submission, allowing you to be almost certain it will be approved if it follows everything.

Although we are trying to develop this as quickly as possiable, I would like to remind people that it is still exam season, atleast for a few more weeks.

 

[Kingz]

Palaslayer asked for my opinion on this subject and they are:

• mods should know GUI and JASS/vJASS perfectly or as near as possible(i still don't know many things about JASS/vJASS and the only people i can see as mods in the future are -Johny, Dark_Dragon, Deaod,Dynasti and xd.Schurke)
• semi-mods? strange idea not bad but i think site owner and other moderators should decide about that.
• actions before words, i think anyone can say that he is a good candidate to be a spell mod, but can everyone prove that?
• fair, mods should be fair. If you think a resource is unaprovable you should directly say the problems, suggest fixes and notice that if they aren't improved the resource will be rejected. As simple as that.
• mods should be chosen by other moderators not by thread, work hard and you may earn the priviledge to become one.
• this thread is losing it's meaning, an easier solution would be a minimum days/posts/reputation before you can start uploading spells(so not every user that just registers can start spamming the section)
• you can't become a moderator over night, so don't bother trying so.
  Work hard, make spells, give reviews and then one day you might become a moderator.

Well this is all i have to say about this "issue" at the moment.
I am mostly innactive and will become again active for ~3 weeks.
Until then mostly innactive.

 

[Deuterium]

Damnt! Wrote a whole load of text and deleted them by mistake!

Anyways, I'll sum it up.

this thread is losing it's meaning, an easier solution would be a minimum days/posts/reputation before you can start uploading spells(so not every user that just registers can start spamming the section)

I mus disagree, some people are more gifted than others, so it won't be fair to everyone. We stick to the same method as now, but Mods should disable users who upload spams from uploading. Then the only way to upload would be through probing to the Mod (through private messages) that you're able of uploading good spells.

Second, mods should have a lot of time. We need mods who could check the spell section at least once every two days (unless he has exams or vacation or some special situation). Why two days? There would be other mods around so it shouldn't be on a daily basis...

And please, no offense to Rmx or Palaslayer. The word you're searching for Palas is "childish" which you and Rmx are both being. You actually think you can become a Mod just by being good at GUI? I don't know about Palas, and no seriously no offense Rmx, but you've got some flaws:
- trigger wise, you null globals
- language wise, you're hard to understand sometimes and you spam letters and words

Look people, we're not fighting on who to be Mods and we shouldn't focus (as Kingz says and I agree) on who the mods are gonna be... I think the current Mods can easily pick and judge.

Although I must disagree with what Dr. Super Good said, and say that deep Jass knowledge shouldn't be a must to be a good GUI Mod, only basic knowledge.

However I still sick to my plan of having 3 teams:
- Overall Mods (the 2 experts)
- GUI Mods (2 GUI experts and few GUI helpers)
- Jass Mods (2 really good jassers - for the best would be the Overall Mods - and a few helpers)

And please, let's not turn this convo into some sort of joke and stick to giving plans and asking for what should be changed!

Thank you people!

Deut...

 

[PurplePoot]

You can't be really good with GUI without knowing Jass, contrary to popular belief. One of the weirder ironies of Warcraft.

 

[Deuterium]

I'm not saying you don't need to know Jass... I'm just saying you don't need advance Jass...

Look, for instance, you would never need to know anything about BJ's except to avoid them (would you really need to know how each function for a GUI trigger?)...

I mean yes you should know alot of custom scripts and how to deal with local variables and etc... but that about it...

You agree or disagree?

 

[PurplePoot]

Look, for instance, you would never need to know anything about BJ's except to avoid them (would you really need to know how each function for a GUI trigger?)...

No, but BJs are not really anything of note.

I mean yes you should know alot of custom scripts and how to deal with local variables and etc... but that about it...

Not really. In fact, neither of those are hugely relevant anyways.

You agree or disagree?

I think people show a great misunderstanding of the things you learn in Jass that are important to GUI; I disagree.

 

[Deuterium]

Well after all you know much more than I do around here, and my knowledge of Jass is basic...

But then can you please explain what Jass is needed for GUI? Just examples...

 

[PurplePoot]

It isn't any specific concepts. It's knowing how Warcraft approaches GUI (and code in general), what major flaws there are, what cases need special workarounds, etc.

 

[Deuterium]

Yeah I get your point

 

[TriggerHappy]

You don't need a GUI mod and a JASS mod.

Just JASS mods.

99% of the time, jassers know GUI. 99% of the time, GUI'er don't know jass.

But then can you please explain what Jass is needed for GUI? Just examples...

GUI compiles to JASS, and JASSers know what happens in the backend, while GUI users probably do not.

 

[Hawkwing]

But they don't use the Accept or Reject button for mini-moderators ...

Just set a poll and u will see 1% use it and another 99% don't ...

This is why wee need Spell MODS.

The mini-moderate function is basically just a function that allows users to cast their review without it being seen publicly. It's essentially a private message to all of the moderators of the respective resource section.

There's no significance of having mini-moderators apart from users for that reason.

 

[-JonNny]

• mods should know GUI and JASS/vJASS perfectly or as near as possible(i still don't know many things about JASS/vJASS and the only people i can see as mods in the future are -Johny, Dark_Dragon, Deaod,Dynasti and xd.Schurke)

• 
  
  Thx for thinking i could be a mod, if this would ever happen people would may learn how to spell ma nic
  
  I agree that its hard to find any mods and that it cannot be done that spontaneous. But i think its also not that good to wait ages to find the perfect vJasser because thats nearly impossible. (e.g. i dont know if all of the one mentioned know Textmacros and everything perfectly )
  The Spell section wont clean up itself and thats why i like the "semi-mod" idea. As mentioned it takes more skill to spot out a leaking bad spell than a great triggered ones and due the fact that the "Vote for approval" seems to be senseless without any active mods too ,i think semimods could take the power to atleast reject bad spells with a good reason because atm many good spells drown in a bunch of ... cr*p... (e.g. take a look at some spells of the top downloads)
  
  I hope and guess mods will make a good decision with choosing a new mod but i hope it will happen in the next months
  Hanky and I offered our help some month ago to clean up the whole Spell section but we both got rejected
  Some weeks later Hanky got asked to get a mod
  He definitely made a great job but it was also quite much work for one person to rewiev nearly all Spells
  Having 2-3 active mods should be good because there are arround 2-4 new submission per day and i think 1 review of a Spell could be possible
  
  I dont like to make a post of the code in the spell submission obligatory to get approved but its always helpfull for any mods and other which will try to help. Especiallay for GUi i think its not that needed but it would it make quite easy to find low quality spells before downloding
  
  
  Btw, whats about the Update bug that updates of some players are never shown with not changing the "Last Updated" value ?
  I know that this bug exists for a long time now but i wonder if this would ever get fixed (also because the spell section gets overworked again)

 

[Septimus]

I rather have Resources Rules Enforcer as 90% of the GUI spells that are badly coded usually violate the site rules.

 

[Dark_Dragon]

But then can you please explain what Jass is needed for GUI? Just examples...

by that what PurplePoot said that advanced jass is needed in order to be GUI mod is actually true. because there is noting special to learn about jass it only has functions, globals, locals and few keywords like loop, if... all you need to know for perfect jass is a logic of programming and then you can learn syntax very easy (in a one day) .

You don't need a GUI mod and a JASS mod.

i dont like the idea. its coz "lets not just say jass but any language vjass, cjass wjass.."
any custom text typeing is different then just GUI itself... and i as custom text coder usually dont like to check GUI (even through i know it ofc) so i beleve that other custom script coders as well dont like GUI that much especially Deaod... but there are people who know jass and GUI (how GUI compiles to jass and how is it done most efficient in GUI) could be more usefull and they would review the GUI spells whit no problem... coz they themselfs like GUI.

ofc i know that only jass mods coule be accepted but in my option i dont like that!

I agree that its hard to find any mods and that it cannot be done that spontaneous. But i think its also not that good to wait ages to find the perfect vJasser because thats nearly impossible.

well its true that wasting time is not too good and actions should be taken as soon as it can be...

however unlikely GUI mods, Jass mods must know every possible script language (at least Warcraft III languages) "c++ or others are not needed", this is because what if someone posts some spell and he coded it a bit different then others do (however it might be better then other people algorithms) so mod ofc most not say "this is different and its rejected" coz it looks badly coded... better to say if someone posts an spell which is coded in wJass and mod does not know wJass he cant approve the spell, right?

so all langugaes and all features in them must be known...

its becuase mods must know all what users know (or what users post) so they can approve it! i hope this what i am saying is understandable, coz its ofc not that i want to wait a year to see a new mod but in my option all this for Jass mod should be a must!


i have read the rules DSP posted and i think its quite better now, still it would be good if extractor could be coded and used here

Greets all!
~Dark Dragon

 

[Kingz]

Sorry -JonNny, there better now?
Btw what is with the spell section i don't like the way it's organized, to find the spell you must go to the last page
It was better before.
Also why is it that 99% of GUI spell maker don't know JASS?
I made strictly GUI spells before i learned vJASS and i saw no trouble in it.
At the begining it was hard due to the fact i never coded anything in my life but on the end it was easy.

The sad truth is that we need more moderators the problem is the choice is narrow.
Also moderators are living beings on the contrary to someone's beliefs and you must have someone to clean the spell section if 2 mods are innactive due to RL.
This thread is interesting and i will see that i take a look at it whenever i have chance to.

 

[Deuterium]

Also moderators are living beings on the contrary to someone's beliefs and you must have someone to clean the spell section if 2 mods are innactive due to RL.

Exactly! That's why I stated an edited plan of Palaslayer's which consists of teams...
That way everything would be working much more efficiently, and the mod can go for vacation for a month without leading to a mess since there are other mods/semi-mods around.

And what's more, also replying to DD's:

so all langugaes and all features in them must be known...

My plan would make it much easier to pick mods since (I think) barely any one of the active spell-makers here in the hive know all Jass languages or optimally everything there is in Jass. There would always be gaps...
So he comes the job of the team, filling each others' gaps.

And this also enable the chance of having GUI mods with only basic Jass knowledge.
If some custom script might seem unknown to the mod (although I doubt any good GUI mod would face a hard-to-deal-with custom scrit) there's a whole team him.

And although I agree that it's preferable to have GUI mods who know Jass well, but are there enough options? Don't forget that the person should be also willing to take the job as a mod and should also be mature and must know English well...

Moreover, some GUI'ers do understand to a certain extent how GUI compiles with Jass and how to get the most efficiency out of a GUI script.

And replying now to the mini-mods subject:
Well by mini-mods I don't mean people who have barely any knowledge in spell-making, but should also have enough knowledge to apply basic judging.

The mini-mods is a matter that would still need a lot of discussion in my opinion, but those would be able of judging (and I bet they can) on whether a spell break rules, or is leakful or not MPI or MUI, leaving more complicated stuff to the better mods who would be detecting bugs and inefficiency.

Mini-mods would be only reviewing spells so that once mods/semi-mods check the spell he can simply read the reviews and from thereon directly reject if the reviews clearly state that the spell doesn't even meet the least of the standards.

Moreover mini-mods would be able of keeping track of dead-lines give to spells to be adjusted, and if not met, inform mods about the deadline.


Mini-mods aren't really necessary, but would be of great help if agreed upon.

Btw, whats about the Update bug that updates of some players are never shown with not changing the "Last Updated" value ?

Yes that happens...

The mini-moderate function is basically just a function that allows users to cast their review without it being seen publicly. It's essentially a private message to all of the moderators of the respective resource section.

In my belief, the mini-moderate function is only used to accept spells and not to reject...
I myself always get excited to use it when I see this amazing spell, but never used it to reject a bad one...

well its true that wasting time is not too good and actions should be taken as soon as it can be...

There are already a huge spam of bad spells that go through a number of pages!
At the rate of having 5 spells uploaded a day (and some days around 10), as each month passes there would be a range of 100 to 150 spells to review (taking into consideration that some days less than 5 spells are uploaded). So the more delay in taking actions, the worse the situation is getting...

I believe - in case the new system and plan for the spell section is going to take much more time - at least an urgent mod or two (who are done with their final exams) should be picked by the admins/mods just to keep things as they are and not let things get worse...

If from thereon some spells are rejected or accepted as they're uploaded, the number of the "messy" spells won't be increasing.


As for the rules, good job on that! It's well done...
HOWEVER! They should be updated frequently depending on the needs of the spell section.

 

[Hawkwing]

The mini-moderate function gets used when giving opinions to reject too, just not nearly as much.

 

[Palaslayer]

phew, all those long posts ^^

no seriously, can't ralle say something? or hakeem? or rui?

 

[Deuterium]

The mini-moderate function gets used when giving opinions to reject too, just not nearly as much.

Well, you know better than I do...

 

[baassee]

Holy crap this took a loooong time for me to read.

Thought I have to jump in with my opinion here too.

Basiclly I agree with the most of you, the spell section is overflood with (mostly GUI) spells that breaks a rule or a few more. Also I see one or another jass spell in a while thought I can read jass enough to understand and read almost vJass but I can't really judge on it cause I'm pretty useless finding flaws and leaky booexp and bjs (yes I know most BJS are counted with a BJ but some doesn't leak!).

GUI isn't a scripting language, hope y'all know that. The real language is jass or vJass ... well one of 'em is hacked but anyways. Most scripts got their own GUI (Graphical User interface something). Same here, also most of our GUIers could easily learn jass, the mostly difference are that all things are in coded version and not in pre-made picture lines.

Also if you know the most of the lines in GUI, just convert and look how it will look like in jass. It's very alike. The thing I feel different with jass is locals (mostly) and ofc the effiency with many functions in one trigger instead of a few triggers.

But dunno if I've read the whole topic right but what will happen if we split the spell section into 2 different sub-categories: Jass/vJass and GUI.

You get my point? Mostly all spells will be added to the GUI section and I know some ppl add all 3 versions to their spells. But this will look alot more easier. Also thought I read about the mod idea from seed.

I can agree most of the part. But what will count as heavy spells in GUI that the real mod should take? Thought maybe change this and let the semi-mods take their work and the mods can just watch above and in different cases jump in.

Also I have to point in that our current spell mods, when they got time, are prob the greatest on this site atm thought we have Jass talents ass Johnny, Dark_Dragon and redscores, our mods, when they do their thing, can't get better then that.

Point some stuff in that I missed or something that I'm jsut repeating cause on x page my eyes got tired so didnt read every single word.

~baassee

 

[Hawkwing]

If it's any consequence, some moderators were recruited recently.

 

[baassee]

Yeah I noticed one now, hvo-busterkomo

 

[Hawkwing]

• aznricepuff will be handling the Jass section for the most part. He's relatively quiet outside of the coding forums, but is a great and helpful coder and guy.

Ermm. Ehh.

 

[Deuterium]

Btw, all this planning and advice we tried to give, well, seems as if we just wasted our time here...

In the end all that happened was simply picking buster as a mod

Although I must say, he did a good job yesterday reviewing some huge number of spells.

But if there are more than a thousand unrevised spells, it's gonna be some good time before the section gets cleaned up...

 

[NiddHogg-kun]

I think it is really hard to know vJASS and GUI same time perfectly.
I agree with someone who said about (v)JASS moderator and GUI moderator.
Now i see only 1 new moderator moderating spell section >.>

 

[Captain Griffen]

If you know vJass, you know JASS. If you know JASS, you know GUI. If you just know GUI, you don't know GUI.