RPG Map : Hero ideas

[Gray_Fox]

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to post this so correct me if i'm wrong.

Anyway im currently working on a linear RPG map, a dungeon crawler.
And i have to choose between 2 types of heroes but i'd like to hear wich type you prefer and ofcourse also explain why.

So the first type of heroes are the somewhat more generic heroes, you know you're warriors, thieves and mages.

The second type of heroes are somewhat more special and unique, much like in games like Diablo. They usually have their own unique name, background story and such.

This might come off as a rather odd question but i hope i've given you a clear view of both hero types, if not please feel free to ask.
Also, if you're interested in my project, you can contact me.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Deleted member 177737]

Use the second type, theirs to many cliche rpg's with the usual hero types.

 

[Redeemer59]

I recommend the second option, but while also taking care not to go too specific.

While I don't particularly mind having the classes be incredibly generic (Warrior, Sorcerer, Thief, Cleric, etc.) in RPGs, I always find it off-putting to see heroes like Veteran of the Third War or Twilight Archlord or similar.

Diablo 2 hits the sweet-spot where they're individual enough to be yours and have personality, but not enough so to alienate the audience.

But that's just me.

 

[Boris_Spider]

If you were doing something more like a campaign, I'd be inclined to go with the 2nd type. Since you're just doing a single map, you can't really expand on each character's past in game.

Standard names would be fine and far easier on you, since very few users would appreaciate the work into creating the history for each character.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Gray_Fox]

Those are some good points, i guess with the first type the user could fill in the blanks himself in an RP fashion, example : a warrior could really have any sort of background, history whereas somekind of specialized fighter wont... if that made any sense ^^

 

[Dawn Whitelighter]

why not mix it up? i mean, if you have two heavy melee units with holy based spells, one could be just Paladin, and one could be sumthing else (ex: Elder of the Hand)..

 

[Gray_Fox]

as in two different heroes? or perhaps some kind of specilization. Example a paladin can later on choose to become a Inquisitor or a Cleric or sommit?

 

[Deleted member 177737]

as in two different heroes? or perhaps some kind of specilization. Example a paladin can later on choose to become a Inquisitor or a Cleric or sommit?

Don't even go near specialization's, they just add to much complexity to something that could be so simple yet ingenious.

What Blizzard did with Diablo was make a handful of good well defined classes with a tidbit of information on their backgrounds. If your willing to put in some work to create a few original classes, it takes quite a bit of thought (more than an hour of brainstorming) but if you get a good idea and follow it through you might come up with some good ideas.

Summary:
-Take from Diablo and make your own unique classes
-Don't even think about using specialization's with heros

 

[Deleted member 177737]

Crap dbl posted

 

[Gray_Fox]

Alright, thanks for all the help and suggestions.

 

[Dawn Whitelighter]

what i meant is that what if you have 3 different melee-holy-hero, then it would not look good if you label them all unique (for example: 1 would be Elder of the Hand, Temple Protector, Light Guardian. too colorful) you could just name one as Paladin, another cleric, and the last one could be a more specified class (ex: Demon Slayer) you could also label them by their personalities origin or sumthing (ex: Son of Odin, Chosen One, The True, etc)

 

[Goffterdom]

Most players dont care that much about background. So don't put too much effort on it. Moreover, as it has been previously said, dont customize too much the heroes. I like to play a warrior, but I dont like to play a "Captain of the Blood Crown". It is far too specific, I want my warrior to be the chosen one, not a random captain.

I think that if you let enough freedom to players in-game, you dont need to make unique classes. Players will find their own destiny and make their avatar a hero.

 

[greasontim]

Well another Hero setup is go with something like Warrior and that. Each hero having 3 skills. Than once you get to a set point you pick another class example Mage and become a Arcane Warrior gainning you a bit of extra INT growth as well as the lowest lvl Mage skill.

Warrior + Mage = Arcane Warrior
Warrior + Warrior = Warmonger
Warrior + Priest = Paladin

Mage + Warrior = Battle Mage
Mage + Mage = Arch Mage
Mage + Priest = Arcane Mage

Priest + Warrior = Monk
Priest + Mage = Dark Priest
Priest + Priest = Bishop

Picking the same class that you currently are just gives you access to the ultimate skill for that class.
Its just a idea

 

[ubran]

Multi-classes are just too much for a simple dungeon crawler. Looking at the original Diablo and one of my new favorite games, Torchlight, you can see how having just a few archetypical classes with lots of options for custom builds works out just fine. In Torchlight, the 3 classes are almost exact copies of the original warrior, rogue, sorceror combination, but each with unique backstories that tied them to the game. This has some pros and cons that can be improved upon for wat I consider to be an even better possible gameplay experience.

Pros - might wanna borrow some of these for your game
[+] each class was broad enough that you can pick and choose whatever skills you need as the game evolves (need more armor to survive bossfights? grab armor expertise)
[+] the skill trees for each class fit nice well-rounded themes so even if you started with a warrior, you had access to more spell-like abilities like warcries, summoning ancestral spirits, etc. or just building a classic tank with area effect stuns, shieldbashes, and epic DOOMQUAKES (just for epic win)

cons - and possible fixes
[-] there's empty middle ground between classes; you can build a mage as a fighter mage, or a warrior as a casty-type, but there is nothing quite in the middle, more like it's divided in thirds. Some people like that, but by adding 3 more character classes that fall in between the others on the character class triangle, you can give more options and maybe help players find a better niche
[-] outside of the main questline, it's all just an infinite grind for epicer loots. You should implement a system that generates new mini-stories for each dungeon, kinda like Diablo3's is supposed to be, so the game stays new each time.

 

[Gray_Fox]

Hmm, another idea i had that i'm unsure of was this: Basically you can choose archetypical classes, ex. Warrior, Mage,... Then they can choose between a few items that grant them abilities. For example the Warrior could purchase a Tome of the Defender ; granting him tanking abilities and such. Or he could choose the Tome of the Berserker ; making him a powerful dps class.

Just an idea, hope i made it clear enough and tell me wht u think.

 

[Goffterdom]

I disagree with the implementation. A "Tome" is not realistic at all.

Give to players a choice among several abilities to start with. Implement it in a gameplay way (not a realistic way). To make short, just show a dialog or a shop where you can "purchass" the abilities.

If you make archetypical classes there can be:
Warrior
- Robustness (increases max hit points)
- Dexterity (increases agility)
- Holyness (gives Holy Hands and Redemption abilities, the first heals and the second gives a bonus damage against undead units)
- Blood Path (increases base damages)

Mage
- Elements (gives two element spells: firebolt / roots or chain lightning / frost armor or frost nova / fire shield or spells like this)
- Summoning (allow to summon a pet that lasts forever)
- Buffing (gives two buffing spells)

Thief
- Sudden Death (gives a low percent chance to instantly kill a unit on attack)
- Robbering (gives a low percent chance to steal an item on attack)

That's all I came up with >.>

 

[Gray_Fox]

So basically like a skill system that gives you a passive / upgrades ?
Or perhaps something like purchasing abilities from the NPC of your chosen class, much like in Guild of Hyppos RPG if you're familiar with that one.

Another thing, these systems will probably force you to go back to town often if you want to learn a new spell or respec ( if allowed ). Would that fit in a game where you're mostly just heading forward in the same direction. Obviously there'll be something like Town Portal from Diablo, but still what do you think.

 

[Silverfish423]

I would stick with the first type but be sure to give the players options so that they may create a truly unique hero class of their own that they can call their own. Also have the abilities and such seem interesting, useful, and unique. Even the basic spells can be made unique and awesome (you just need creativity)
If you have any questions or anything, let me know!

Hopefully this helps

 

[Gray_Fox]

I would stick with the first type but be sure to give the players options so that they may create a truly unique hero class of their own that they can call their own. Also have the abilities and such seem interesting, useful, and unique. Even the basic spells can be made unique and awesome (you just need creativity)
If you have any questions or anything, let me know!

Hopefully this helps

Any suggestions on how to give the player that freedom? Only things i can come up with is a skill system.

 

[Deleted member 177737]

Any suggestions on how to give the player that freedom? Only things i can come up with is a skill system.

Yeah he's basically suggesting a talent/skill system with many different builds. My input on that idea is that it is a bad idea because it just makes the map way more complicated than it has-to-be.
If you were making a campaign id use a talent/skill system but for a multilpayer map just stick with the usual set amount of skills with 1-2 that are interchangeable.

 

[Gray_Fox]

Yeah he's basically suggesting a talent/skill system with many different builds. My input on that idea is that it is a bad idea because it just makes the map way more complicated than it has-to-be.
If you were making a campaign id use a talent/skill system but for a multilpayer map just stick with the usual set amount of skills with 1-2 that are interchangeable.

Fair enough, I'll just have 4 active abilities for each hero. And then 2 skills every other hero has aswell, not sure exactly what yet but it'll prolly be somekind of out of combat heal and / or a hearthstone type thingy.
Unless someone knows has a better idea?

 

[Goffterdom]

I made a RPG once.
There were a lot of different towns all over the map.
In each towns there were one hero that can teach you fighting abilities (for ranger/warrior/thiefs and so on) and another who teaches spells.
Abilities were represented by items that you have to purchass.
To learn an ability you had to go back to town but that wasnt a straight lined RPG, you had to travel the world.
To increase the level of an ability you had to push "Escape", it shown a menu where you had your different abilities to click on (items to sell).
The good point was that you could have more than 5 active abilities at the same time. The bad point was that if you choose passive abilities before active it reduced the number of active you could have. Maybe you can fix this issue by creating a spellbook where every passive abilities learnt go inside, but I dont know how to do this.

At start players had a choice among like 7 different and archetypical classes, but from the moment they spawn in the map they were all different since they were learning different abilities.

About my previous post, yeah, this is kind of a passive/upgrade. But you can do it only once, that makes a small difference between all archetypical classes at start, which is a good idea imo (to create a difference, not my solution in particular).

Now you can do something else, you can gives the heroes like two or three regular abilities for their classes. And also add some abilities that you have to learn by other way and that unallows to to choose other abilities afterwards.
Let me explain: If a Warrior want to specialize into a deadly Swordmaster, he can learn "Sword Masteering" and "Blade Dance" but he wont be able to learn "Shield Bash" and "Robustness" anymore. But at start he has the same abilities than every other Warriors.
To make it simple you can add a "Type" to every abilities you going to make, so that players wont find it difficult to understand what their doing (for instance they wont get mad when they will realize than can't learn "Shield Bash" anymore).

EDIT: Tell me if it's not clear, English is not my first language :x
Tell me also if you want more explainations, or more ideas, I'm a boundless well of creativity.

 

[Evilz]

Try My Hero Idea, Bard

 

[Gray_Fox]

I can set it up like this Goffterdom :

Each hero starts with 2 skills native to their class ( Stealth for rogues, etc )
And they can then specialize in another aspect, unlocking 2 or 3 other abilities. Perhaps through buying some item.
In addition, at the begining and / or every 10 levels you can choose a new "Perk" wich will grant you passives in a spellbook containing all of them.

 

[Goffterdom]

I like it

Gj, +rep ;-)

Ask me if you want help for all the abilities (I mean ideas, I'm not so good at map making).

EDIT: I mean ask here.

 

[Gray_Fox]

Cheers, yah feel free to tell me whatever is on your mind for ability ideas, PM me or post em here whatever you like

You'll be added in the credits obivously ^^

Also, would it be cool to have multiple races? They could vary in initial stats and perhaps some racial ability or Perk idk. Or it could just be cosmetic.

 

[Silverfish423]

Yeah he's basically suggesting a talent/skill system with many different builds. My input on that idea is that it is a bad idea because it just makes the map way more complicated than it has-to-be.
If you were making a campaign id use a talent/skill system but for a multilpayer map just stick with the usual set amount of skills with 1-2 that are interchangeable.

No, that is not what I am saying. This is what I mean (I'll use my current RPG as an example):

So you can choose from a plethora of races (human, orc, sal'yan, etc). After you choose your race, you are just a hero of that race (Human Hero, Orc Hero, etc etc). As you progress through the storyline, various elements of the game will affect the eventual class build (quests, weapon choices, spell builds, etc etc)
As a specific example: in my RPG, there is a quest where you eventually get to choose a weapon as a reward. That weapon dignifies your base class. So, if the hero chose a Steel Sword, they would be a Warrior. Or if they chose a Nature Blessed Staff, theyd be a Druid. So then theyd be a Human Warrior, Human Druid, etc etc

So you see what I mean? It doesnt have to be solely based upon spell choices. It can be based upon quest choice/completion, storyline, etc etc. And it all started from choosing 1 basic hero (in my case, a race)

 

[Gray_Fox]

Okay, but imo that is something more fitting to a Single player ORPG, or just an ORPG in general. I'm making a multiplayer oriented dungeon-crawler.

 

[Goffterdom]

So I guess there should be less "storylining/background" work in a Dungeon-Crawler type RPG. To focus more on fights/fast-pacing.

@Gray_Fox: What you suggested about adding races is exactly what I did in my OPRG.
When you start you have to choose your race (among archetypical races I gotta admit t_t). Each race gives different bonus (if I remember well, Troll +hp regen +atk speed, Orcs + Hit Points + strength, Naga + Mana + armor, Elf + Att/Mvt Speed, Human + 1 free skill) and stats bonus (+2/+1/+0 for instance). Then each classes gives a special skill and other stats mod.

The good thing is that it is easy to make it clear and understandable for nooby kind when they start the map. And still fun to customize his own hero at start for older players.

Tell me what races you could do and what classes in each of them, I'll tell you what I would choose for specializations if you want.

 

[Gray_Fox]

I'm still deciding on classes / races etc but this is what i came up with so far.
Note, the map takes place in a fantasy universe made up by me, not the Warcraft universe.

Humans :
-Fighter
-Rogue
-Paladin
-Wizard
-Necromancer
-Warlock
-Disciple

Elves :
-Fighter
-Paladin
-Ranger
-Wizard
-Disciple
-Blood Mage

Dwarves :
-Fighter
-Rogue
-Ranger
-Paladin
-Disciple

Forest Orcs :
-Fighter
-Ranger
-Rogue
-Blood Mage
-Shaman

Fire Orcs :
-Fighter
-Rogue
-Wizard
-Warlock
-Paladin

Trolls :
-Fighter
-Rogue
-Shaman
-Wizard
-Disciple
-Ranger

Undead :
-Fighter
-Rogue
-Ranger
-Necromancer
-Warlock
-Wizard

I haven't decided wether the orcs, trolls and undead will be playable yet, because i figured they didn't fit so well with the first 3 races.
Right so alot of this is still being decided and any suggestions are appreciated. Wether it be on how to improve races or how to improve classes.

Edit : Apologies for this wall of text >.<

 

[Goffterdom]

To avoid wall of texts use ["hidden=HIDDEN"] IM HIDDEN ["/hidden"] functions (without the quotation marks)

HIDDEN

IM HIDDEN

Now concerning your RPG.
I'll try to help you concerning classes and races specialization, but I'd like to know what attributes you use (regular STR/AGI/INT?).

About your races, the only problem I see is the Undeads. All the other races do actually "fit" with any background. You are the map maker, you decide if a race is inteligent, peaceful or on the contrary in a blood lust. But anyway, the race is playable since it is your universe. Troll and Orcs can absolutley be clever enough to trade / peace / communicate with the Humans and Elves. You choose what they are, not the common lore of Wc3.

You have a lot of spellcaster classes, they don't look like "Archetypical classes", they look like specialized spellcasters. I think it will be hard to make them different ones from each other (can I say that, is it correct ?)

Classes

Classe - Stats MOD - Abilities available
Fighter - +3/+1/+0 - +HP / +Damages / +Atck Speed
Paladin - +2/+0/+2 - Healing Hands / Redemption (damages undeads, active)) / Holyness (damages demon, passive)
Rogue - +0/+3/+1 - Stealth (invisible for x seconds, canot move, active) / Sudden Death (gives x% chance to instantly kill a unit, passive) / Stealing (gives x% chance to steal an item level x to a unit/hero, passive)
Wizard - +0/+0/+4 - Meditation (Channeling, restores mana on time) / Focus (increases spell damages) / Summoning (one summons depending on Spellcaster type and race)
Warlock - +0/+0/+4 - Focus / Meditation / Damage spell (Based on Fire/Chaos IMO)
Disciple - +1/+0/+3 - Meditation / Healing Hands / Blessing (increases armor and heals nearby units, active)
Blood Mage - +0/+0/+4 - Focus / Damaging fire spell / Blood lust (restores mana at every attack)
Ranger - +1/+3/+0 - Accuracy (gives high chances of critical, active) / Env. arrow (deals high damages on time, active) / Multishot (maybe overpowerful...)
Shaman - +0/+1/+3 - Meditation / Summon / Element damage based spell (Ice, Storm, Fire, Earth)

Races

Race - Race MOD - Racial ability available
Humans - +2/+2/+2 - +1 skill point / +1 classe ability
Elves - +0/+3/+3 - +Atck Speed / +Mana max
Dwarves - +6/+0/+0 - Bear pet (summon bear) / Stone Skin (decreases damage taken)
Fire Orcs - +4/+0/+2 - Fire Paints (increases attack speed but deals damage on time) / War Lust (has x% chance to increases attack speed for x seconds at each attack
Forest Orcs - +2/+3/+1 - Naturel Empathy (each time the hero is attacked by an animal it has x% chance to tame it) / Astrology (increases damages and mvt speed during the night)
Trolls - +1/+4/+1 - Evolved Metabolism (+HP regen) / Smooth Agility (increases attack speed and starting armor)

Tell me if you don't like some of the stuff I suggested, I'd be glad to find new things to fit with background.

 

[Gray_Fox]

I love what you've done there thanks. I do think you may be right on the spellcasters being too specialized, but frankly i'm still struggling alot about wich classes to have.
Perhaps you have any ideas?

And how do you feel about a racial class? Only available to a specific race, for example the Trolls could have a Voodoo Witch Doctor or something.

Edit : as a matter of fact, nevermind that last bit. I'd rather figure out regular classes first and not rush into too much right away.

 

[Goffterdom]

Well you really have to clear your mind and ideas. Or else I and others will make you go in every possible directions.

Choose your final races and classes and stick to it.

You dont need to do "Racial Classes", you can just change the name of the regular "Mage" to "Witch Voodoo" for the Troll for instance. It's the same archetypical classe but with a different name. It doesnt change the gameplay it changes the lore.

IMO there should be:
Race -> Classe available (Lore name)
Human -> Fighter (Soldier), Rogue (Thief), Wizard (Mage), Ranger, Paladin, Disciple (Priest)
Elves -> Fighter (Swordman), Rogue (Shadow), Wizard, Ranger (Longbow), Paladin (Demon/Undead hunter)
Dwarves -> Fighter (Viking), Disciple (Holy Priest)
Forest Orcs -> Fighter (Warrior), Rogue, Wizard (Sorcerer), Ranger (Ambusher), Disciple (Shaman)
Fire Orcs -> Fighter (Berzerk), Rogue, Wizard (Warlock), Disciple (Shaman)
Trolls -> Fighter (Hunter), Rogue, Wizard (Witch Voodoo), Disciple (Shaman)

The name (NAME) are the adapted classes name for race, that improves lore.


Stop struggling for Classes and choose a final race-class tree that you like. And which is easy to understand for you and every possible players. And that fits with your original idea which is to simplify classes to allow players a customization afterwards.

EDIT: Also remember this is a Dungeon Crawler RPG, it may doesnt need so much work on the race/classes. Especially if the player will just hack n' slash the mobs.