[Defense / Survival] Project Hachigen

[Strydhaizer]

Project Hachigen

Personal Note

Recently this year I decided to replay some of the classic Blizzard games (specifically Starcraft I, and then eventually Warcraft III) and coincidentally Blizzard also declared 1.29 as the official Legacy version of Warcraft in the Battlenet, which "kind-of, sort-of" motivated me to return to modding; it's a big deal to me as it means more players will actually have access to legacy (officially distributed by Blizzard), and I like creating maps in legacy still. After 6 years of hiatus I decided to make something new again; a singleplayer altered melee map; And here it is.

Description

Project Hachigen (Hachiken) is an "singleplayer" altered melee map/survival defense set in an alternate universe of Warcraft. The map is a complete remake and a successor to my decade old map "The Caribbean", and uses my unfinished "Project Eurica" as its foundation. This map is heavily inspired from the simplistic melee gameplay of Starcraft I and The Scouring. -This project aims to resolve the issues of the predecessor such as tight spaces, unit & economy inbalance, and unit training limitations. -Note that this project is primarily a melee map; this is not a campaign or story-oriented project. The premise is presented to you in a sandbox way instead of a cinematic and scriptwriting.

Current Features

• Races: The map feature two (2) main factions (during release) - Currently three (3) after the released updates Spoiler 1. The Vanguard (human faction) - This race specializes primarily on the defensive; primarily focuses on healing and repair (self-preservation); and specializes in lightning and raw abilities. 2. The Ironfang (orc faction) - This race specializes primarily on the offense, focuses on aggressive abilities, and specializes on fire abilities --- and a dragon. 3. The Nightwatch (elven faction - added in v0.2) - An elven race that primarily utilizes stealth, and specializes on nature abilities --- and a chimaera. • Custom AI : The map is built with a custom melee AI that can 1. Use randomized factions; and build randomized set of buildings/units (build queue) 2. Invade and retreat from enemy bases 3. Utilize Zeppelins on attacks (related to #2) 4. Expand and Create Outposts (takeover goldmines from free and invaded territories) 5. Defensive mode when the base is attacked (defense is highly prioritized over raids) etc. • 8 Teams Map : The map features 3x and 7x AI; higher means more interactions between the teams but lesser resource nodes available. • Battle Royale-esque Map Design: The map encourages the teams to move inwards as the outer nodes have lesser resources. There are 8 available outer nodes and 4 available inner nodes, when the outer nodes run dry 8 teams will be pushed to fight for the remaining 4 nodes. This also puts the remaining 4 teams closer together until you (the player) wins.

Screenshots

I acknowledge that these are a little less detailed compared to my previous works; this is due to my time availability and game's limitation when making symmetrical maps (it is difficult to mirror when there are too much objects) The use of standard cliffs instead of custom-made is also by choice as it is easier to mirror, they block unit visions properly, and they serve as "directors" for the AI pathing (so the AI will actually use the paths more frequently and not offroad unless necessary) Spoiler The gameplay screenshots are taken in a debug mode (hence the gold/lumber and the visibility to the other teams). Spoiler

Credits

A special mention to the following asset creators Mr Goblin, Sin'dorei300, Pyramidhe@d & 67chrome - For the SoC Resource Pack Wisdom - For the SoC Fun Made Resource pack FrIkY - For the Maghar Orcs Pack, and other skins and icons Fingolfin - For the environment assets WILL THE ALMIGHTY - For the explosion and blood effects bakr, Manastorm, BaiyuGalan & Jiok- For the amazing faction buildings Mythic / Vinz, nightelfbuilder - For the beautiful modern special effects, and Night Elf assets Paladon, PurgeandFire and Bribe's Systems- For the systems and libraries Other credits listed below Spoiler !!GORO!! Aldeia Arowanna Blood Raven CRAZYRUSSIAN Darkfang Dentothor Hueter InfernalTater JetFangInferno kola Kuhneghetz Liu MangakaDark morbent NFWar olofmoleman Paladon Panda PerditionsEdge Pins PrinceYaser Rondo Sellenisko Spellbound tobyfat50 UgoUgo Ujimasa Hojo Villagerino zbc Zephyrius2412 (Still working on this list, some names are still missing)

Roadmap, Feedbacks and Known Bugs

Roadmap Spoiler I will not be dropping dates in the roadmap, but I plan to have them in the map. -Variations of Zeppelins to utilize the implemented AI transport system -Better AI outposts; and utilization of Lumber Mills -Overhaul of the highest tier units of all factions (currently they're just high HP/damage units) -Reforged Support (Experimental) -New factions (human[bandits]; orc [blackrock/trolls]; elven [high elves/dark elves]); -Knight will still indicate that it uses a knockback attack but currently still not present; Knockback system will be introduced in the next update along with other abilities that utilizes it [added in 0.3] -AI still use the default AI Editor's attack wave and resource gathering behavior (unit training and building constructions on the other hand); I plan to migrate all these to triggers at some point to have flexibility of their behaviors. [added in 0.3] -AI should be able to use Overlords/Zeppelins to drop off attack units [added in 0.3] -AI should be more reactive (when getting attacked they should prioritize going back to base instead of continuing their attacks) [added in 0.3] -To introduce wards (primarily for the orcs and the elves) [added in 0.3] -In addition to wards, invisible units will be introduced [added in 0.3] Feedbacks Spoiler -(Feedback) Reimplement Lumbermills (and AI should also be able to utilize it) [added in 0.2] -(Feedback) Current population configuration is too limiting [adjusted in 0.2] -(Feedback) Towers are currently overpowered [adjusted in 0.2]

Compatibility

It is required to play the map in patch 1.29.2 (legacy) officially distributed in the Battlenet (it can also be played up to 1.31). Reforged versions are not recommended as they break the UI and environment lighting of the map. It can be played in SD Reforged, but know that it WILL NOT work as originally intended. Spoiler This is how it looks in Reforged. Don't try it, it's broken.

Closing Note & Download

I've attached below a working BETA copy of the map for those who want to try it; it is currently in BETA and seeking for suggestions and feedbacks. Also do mind that I'm not as available as I was 6 - 12 years ago, I'm a working man now. So revisions of this map might be slow. If you read the whole post; and/or help with your feedbacks please know that I appreciate you so much Thank you! The map is, as usual, open source (not protected); you can explore it in the editor if you wish. Downloads (top link is the latest) MXE_ProjectHachigen v0.3.w3x - https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/mxe_projecthachigen-v0-3-w3x.600021/ MXE_ProjectHachigen v0.2.w3x - https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/mxe_projecthachigen-v0-2-w3x.599158/ MXE_ProjectHachigen v0.1.w3x - https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/mxe_projecthachigen-v0-1-w3x.599157/ Full Download List - Vault: Project Hachigen Backups (Unlocked)

 

[AdinizWarcraft]

@Wazzz @SgtWinter Babes wake up, new altered melee just dropped.

Looks super interesting! I love the concept; it's akin to something @fluxcraft is working on, which is also really cool. A tad bit of a shame it's not officially supported on the latest patch but that's fair. I'll give it a play when I can and return with some feedback!

Edit: Singleplayer? Interesting. Is there a reason behind making the map singleplayer only?

 

[Strydhaizer]

Personally there is just no way for me to test the multiplayer as I don't play multiplayer. But I do allow people to alter the map/create a version that is playable in multiplayer (likely just a minor change here and there as isn't really much triggers in the map anyway). I might consider it at some point.

- The AI triggers I created (or rather the AI in general) already supports multiplayer, but there are few triggers like the dialogs that are only designed for Player 1.

Primarily my goal is to improve the AI to make them look and play smart against a human player.

I also updated the description to include the word 'singleplayer', I apologize for that part and thanks for pointing that out.

 

[AdinizWarcraft]

Personally there is just no way for me to test the multiplayer as I don't play multiplayer. But I do allow people to alter the map/create a version that is playable in multiplayer (likely just a minor change here and there as isn't really much triggers in the map anyway). I might consider it at some point.

- The AI triggers I created (or rather the AI in general) already supports multiplayer, but there are few triggers like the dialogs that are only designed for Player 1.

Primarily my goal is to improve the AI to make them look and play smart against a human player.

I also updated the description to include the word 'singleplayer', I apologize for that part and thanks for pointing that out.

I checked it out on the latest version, it's super awesome so far. Definitely the most atmospheric and immersive altered melee I've played so far, and it plays a lot like a mix of WC3 and WC2.

My feedback:

• Lumber collection feels a bit tedious. I couldn't find a lumbermill for faster collection, and the expensive lumber prices paired with workers collecting less lumber means it's kind of difficult to gather a lot of it. It'd be interesting if there'd be some sort of lumber collection unit; kind of like a mobile lumbermill. Wagons? Caravans?
• I'm not sure how to feel about upkeep remaining a gameplay element. It's an annoying mechanic even in wc3, and it was only really added because of performance limitations that don't exist anymore. I'd honestly remove it, or alternatively replace it with something more fun to play around. (e.g. a crazy idea would be allowing players to train units over the food cap, but the more you train over the food cap, the worse your army performs/the less resources you get.)
• Do creeps serve a purpose?
• Towers are incredibly busted for their capabilities vs units and their overall stats, paired with their price. I think they should also cost lumber.
• I get a very gritty and dark feeling from the overall style, and I feel like Vanguard buildings clash with that style; they look too cartoony. Have you checked out SinisterX's blood elf building pack? It's not on Hive, but it's a very similar style while looking more Warcraft-ish, if you get what I mean.

Overall, I enjoyed it a lot. For a beta, it's pretty fleshed out and the overall vibe I got from the map was awesome. I do think multiplayer could be implemented anyhow; just keep the dialog for the host (player 1).

On another note, I do think you're kind of missing out by not working on this map on 1.31 at the very least. There's many ways this map could benefit from Lua and Custom UI (from better performance to some better visual representation of certain mechanics). I do respect and enjoy that you're keeping it open and viable for players on 1.29 to check out though!

 

[Strydhaizer]

Lumber collection feels a bit tedious. I couldn't find a lumbermill for faster collection, and the expensive lumber prices paired with workers collecting less lumber means it's kind of difficult to gather a lot of it. It'd be interesting if there'd be some sort of lumber collection unit; kind of like a mobile lumbermill. Wagons? Caravans?

My initial mindset was; with lumbermills players can gather lumbers quicker than AIs causing imbalance (AI currently doesn't know where to place them and how to use them properly). I had to cut them out due to this reason (they do exist, they're just unobtainable).

I might bring them back; and declare some spots in the map where AIs should build them.

This goes to the list.

Spoiler

Cut Buildings

I'm not sure how to feel about upkeep remaining a gameplay element. It's an annoying mechanic even in wc3, and it was only really added because of performance limitations that don't exist anymore. I'd honestly remove it, or alternatively replace it with something more fun to play around. (e.g. a crazy idea would be allowing players to train units over the food cap, but the more you train over the food cap, the worse your army performs/the less resources you get.)

Funny thing is I do agree with this part. No I didn't limit it for performance reasons (I actually optimized the AI triggers for 3 weeks! to support 8 teams with hundreds of units in the map), I limited it just because it causes imbalance as human players can rush towards building lots of overpowered artilleries and end the game in 5 ~ 10 minutes.

I agree with this because I like Command and Conquer games and those games did not have food limits (which is what made them fun). I do actually plan to lower the building time further so the interactions between the teams (the fights) becomes more frequent - which complements to this feedback.

I might experiment with this to up the population further for all the teams (removing the cap will obsolete the farms); the handicap idea is actually genius.

This goes to the list.

Do creeps serve a purpose?

At the moment none, at one point I experimented with heroes but I removed them because I didn't want the players to focus on leveling up heroes (I wanted to copy Starcraft I's melee and that game did not have heroes).

- The units "Marshal" and "Brutus" were once heroes sometime in the development; I converted them to high tier units.

I only kept the creeps just to fill empty parts of the map and contribute to the atmosphere; they also slow down the enemy AI teams from rushing towards the enemy teams in the early game.

Towers are incredibly busted for their capabilities vs units and their overall stats, paired with their price. I think they should also cost lumber.

The towers were an afterthought lol. I initially wanted to not have towers at all. I added them late in the development just to prevent the players from rushing towards the enemy bases early game; which is why they are kind of overpowered at the moment.

I'll try to work on this and figure this out.

I get a very gritty and dark feeling from the overall style, and I feel like Vanguard buildings clash with that style; they look too cartoony. Have you checked out SinisterX's blood elf building pack? It's not on Hive, but it's a very similar style while looking more Warcraft-ish, if you get what I mean.

I can see what you're saying. I used these buildings because they have this "royal" look to them which complements with the SoC units that I am using for the human faction.

I'll try to look for alternatives, but no guarantees that they will be replaced (for now).

On another note, I do think you're kind of missing out by not working on this map on 1.31 at the very least. There's many ways this map could benefit from Lua and Custom UI (from better performance to some better visual representation of certain mechanics). I do respect and enjoy that you're keeping it open and viable for players on 1.29 to check out though!

Trust me I want to work in 1.31, even I hate working in 1.29.2 because of the 64 fps limit and the outdated editor, it's just that Blizzard chose 1.29.2 as the official legacy version and I want the map to be accessible to many players.


Thank you very much for giving it a shot and for your feedbacks, it means alot!

 

[AdinizWarcraft]

My initial mindset was; with lumbermills players can gather lumbers quicker than AIs causing imbalance (AI currently doesn't know where to place them and how to use them properly). I had to cut them out due to this reason (they do exist, they're just unobtainable).

I might bring them back; and declare some spots in the map where AIs should build them.

This goes to the list.

Spoiler

Cut Buildings

View attachment 598411

Funny thing is I do agree with this part. No I didn't limit it for performance reasons (I actually optimized the AI triggers for 3 weeks! to support 8 teams with hundreds of units in the map), I limited it just because it causes imbalance as human players can rush towards building lots of overpowered artilleries and end the game in 5 ~ 10 minutes.

I agree with this because I like Command and Conquer games and those games did not have food limits (which is what made them fun). I do actually plan to lower the building time further so the interactions between teams (the fights) becomes more frequent - which complements to this feedback.

I might experiment with this to up the population further for all the teams (removing the cap will obsolete the farms); the handicap idea is actually genius.

This goes to the list.



At the moment none, at one point I experimented with heroes but I removed them because I didn't want the players to focus on leveling up heroes (I wanted to copy Starcraft I's melee and that game did not have heroes).

- The units "Marshal" and "Brutus" were once heroes sometime in the development; I converted them to high tier units.

I only kept the creeps just to fill empty parts of the map and contribute to the atmosphere; they also slow down the enemy AI teams from rushing towards the enemy teams in the early game.



The towers were an afterthought lol. I initially wanted to not have towers at all. I added them late in the development just to prevent the players from rushing towards the enemy bases early game; which is why they are kind of overpowered at the moment.

I'll try to work on this and figure this out.



I can see what you're saying. I used these buildings because they have this "royal" look to them which complements with the SoC units that I am using for the human faction.

I'll try to look for alternatives, but no guarantees that they will be replaced (for now).



Trust me I want to work in 1.31, even I hate working in 1.29.2 because of the 64 fps limit and the outdated editor, it's just that Blizzard chose 1.29.2 as the official legacy version and I want the map to be accessible to many players.


Thank you very much for giving it a shot and for your feedbacks, it means alot!

For creeps, you could go the Stormgate approach of creeps that:

• either provide global bonuses that affect units/buildings for the player, e.g. extra defense on buildings, or extra dmg on ranged units, like in early access Stormgate
• roguelike-esque random rewards, like a rune unit (rune units in stormgate are units that can turn themselves into wards/die to cast an ability, so essentially a living item, as if items were their own 1-time use units), get a creep unit as your own, resources, etc, like in modern day Stormgate.

Addendum: When I open the map, I can't see the model, texture and icon imports in the Asset/Import Manager for whatever reason, and upon saving the map, they aren't loaded in by the editor either, dropping the filesize from 50 MB to 6. Happens in both 1.29 and 2.0.4. Did you import them directly using the MPQ editor on the map?

 

[Strydhaizer]

I haven't played Stormgate yet. I'll look it up on Steam and try it.

Addendum: When I open the map, I can't see the model, texture and icon imports in the Asset/Import Manager for whatever reason, and upon saving the map, they aren't loaded in by the editor either, dropping the filesize from 50 MB to 6. Happens in both 1.29 and 2.0.4. Did you import them directly using the MPQ editor on the map?

Yes. I don't directly import the files in the map via the Import Manager (I develop my maps in a loose-files approach). I only add the map assets during release with the MPQ Editor.

Here are the asset files if you need them

Vault: Project Hachigen Asset Files

www.hiveworkshop.com

 

[AdinizWarcraft]

I haven't played Stormgate yet. I'll look it up on Steam and try it.



Yes. I don't directly import the files in the map via the Import Manager, I only add the map assets during release with the MPQ Editor because it's much easier.

Here are the asset files if you need them

Vault: Project Hachigen Asset Files

www.hiveworkshop.com

That's fair. I used Folder Mode on the latest version to mass-import them and update the import manager.

Here's how the overall layout looks with SinisterX's pack. Needs some small adjustments but it's not bad.

 

[A]mun]

Hail legend of old!

Nice terraining again, but why miss out on the new natives by sticking to legacy versions?

 

[Strydhaizer]

Here's how the overall layout looks with SinisterX's pack. Needs some small adjustments but it's not bad.

Personally I like the current one more, but I do appreciate the enthusiasm.

I've intentionally made the humans look bright and clean compared to the orcs as they're suppose to contrast the dark and industrial look of the orcs (sort of like a rich corporate men vs. the people working in an unregulated factories kind-of thing)

I'm not discarding this idea. I might actually find use for these assets as I am planning to add human subfactions and these can be useful.

Nice terraining again, but why miss out on the new natives by sticking to legacy versions?

First of all I do appreciate the nice welcome. Thank you.

Personally I'm not bothered by missing out the new natives (most of it are in JASS anyway and I don't do JASS - but I can read them). What bothers me is that Blizzard still haven't fixed the custom DNCs - I need it and it is currently broken in Reforged.

Currently my plan is to make it compatible with the official Legacy version, and Reforged (I'll try to find some workarounds to resolve the current Reforged issues; right now some of it can only be fixed by Blizzard)

 

[Strydhaizer]

Update Current Version - MXE_ProjectHachigen v.0.2

Additions -Added Nightwatch Faction (Nightelves x Naga - a nature guardian faction) Major Changes -Resolved issue with AI sometimes stalling the building order causing them to not build for the rest of the game -Removed Gold and Lumber taxes on higher upkeep -Lowered Food Requirements to 1 food. 2 food and 3 food in tier order (prior the changes: 1 food (tier 1), 3 food (tier 2) and 5 food (tier 3)); 100 food cap still in effect -Lowered Towers HP from 400 to 300 -Adjusted Towers Cost from 175 to 200 Gold (basic), and 200 to 225 (special), added minimal lumber requirements (Note: the towers does not scale with the upgrades, they are intended to be strong early game to avoid rushing) -Removed Farms, food is now solely provided by the Town Halls -Added Lumbermills for Vanguard (Humans) and Ironfang (Orcs), Nightwatch (Night Elves) reuses an upgrade building as a lumber-mill -Weapon and Armor upgrades are now "required" to upgrade to Stage II and III (to avoid rushing to higher stages) Minor Changes -Adjusted the scaling and pathing maps of some buildings (so that AI will not build the structures so close to each other) -Improved the description of some units, buildings and upgrades to be more descriptive of their purpose, and to match their current abilities (some have already been cut during development) -Fixed default icons appearing, instead of custom ones (Build, Repair, Gather, and some abilities) -Fixed default missiles being launched by some units, instead of the custom ones (Wyvern Rider, Archer and Glaive Units/Buildings) -Lowered the collision sizes of workers to lower the chances of getting stucked during building command -Adjusted the terrain for clipping doodads (waterfronts, foliages etc.) -Stunning Bolt duration lowered from from 3s to 2s; 25% to 20% chance -Fixed the glitchy Sorceress 3D model when walking -Removed the repair ability of the Orc Peons (Ironfang Peasant) -Fixed the missing teamcolor of some units (Marshal, Clawmaster, Quillbeast) -Faster decay cleanup (from 30s to 15s) for optimization -All workers from all factions will now build like Orc Peons instead of Human Peasants, including the new faction Planned/In Development Changes -New factions (human[bandits]; orc [blackrock/trolls]; elven [high elves/dark elves]); Dark elves may be up next. -To introduce wards (primarily for the orcs and the elves) -In addition to wards, invisible units will be introduced in the next update -Knight will still indicate that it uses a knockback attack but currently still not present; Knockback system will be introduced in the next update along with other abilities that utilizes it

Download : MXE_ProjectHachigen v0.2.w3x - https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/mxe_projecthachigen-v0-2-w3x.599158/

 

[Strydhaizer]

Update Current Version - MXE_ProjectHachigen v.0.3

Major Changes -Major Revision in the enemy player AI; AI movements are now controlled by triggers and not Blizzard AI 1. AI Player will launch an attack every 90 seconds; this timer will reset if provoked (see item #4) 2. AI Player attacks will no longer wait for slower units; and continously group together interrupting their attack commands (this was an issue with the default Blizzard Melee AI done in the default AI Editor; AI is now trigger-based) 3. AI players can now use Zeppelins (only for the computer players that have a Zeppelins in their build queue; Build queue is randomized per player) 4. AI unit will react if buildings or workers are attacked (AI is more defensive now) 5. AI unit will sometimes retreat if health is lower than 25% 6. AI unit will retreat if stucked 7. AI can now gather gold in their expansion bases 8. Human players are now part of the attack targets of the AI right off the bat; instead of waiting to be attacked; Previously no one will attack the human player until they are attacked -Fixed Chimaera's Cloud ability not working in v0.2 (especially when casted by the AI) -Nightwatch (Night Elf) units such as Archers, Scouts, Huntress, Sentinel and Hippogryph are now invisible units (Sentry and Reveal abilities are now a necessary abilities) -they will uncloak when attacking -Added unit regeneration to all units (related to AI revision item #5); Nightwatch (Nightelves) only regenerates at night. -Implemented Knockback System 1. Knight and Ballista will now cause knockbacks on attack; as what is mentioned in the unit description 2. Structural Explosions will now cause knockbacks -Implemented Wards 1. Added wards to Guardian (healing ward, sentry ward) -Reduced building times of all units by 6 seconds; buildings by 5 seconds (with an exception to Town Halls which are kept as is; 120 seconds) -Outer gold nodes increased from 20000 to 25000, Inner gold nodes increased from 30000 to 50000 Spoiler Collection Transport Dropoff Minor Changes -Fixed Nightwatch Crystal -Home Aura missing icon -Collision adjustments (huge unit/building collisions used to block melee attacks when the collision was too big) -Lowered Chimaera "Smokescreen" ability duration from 9s to 6s -Starting Worker Count raised from 5 to 10 -Lowered Max Targets of Glaive Units (Huntress, Glaive Throwers) from 5 to 3, and lowered their base damage -Added new names in the Random AI Player Names Pool -Added minimal mouse smoothing -Swapped Overlord and Brutus (Brutus is now a Tier 2 unit, and Overlord is now a Tier 3 unit) -Added missing Attack 2 (Air Attack) for War Machine (Artillery Tank) -Massive hitpoints increase to all Artillery units (War Machine, Demolisher, Glaive Thrower) -Changed thunder sound effects during storm season -Removed "Concussive Explosion" from War Machine -Removed "Stunning Shot" (stun damage) from Ballista; Renamed as "Concussive" and moved the ability to Catapult -Fixed "Defend/Undefend" effects not working in patch 0.2 -Updated damaged building fires with new special effects -Added "Throw Net" (Ensnare) ability to Wolfrider (gives Ironfang/Orcs a fighting chance against air units) -Fixed "Dragon" morphing animation when downed from air -Changed "Flying Machine" model to human version instead of a goblin version Planned/In Development Changes -Variation of Zeppelins to utilize the implemented AI transport system (both humans and elves are likely to receive their own zeppelins) -Better AI outposts; and utilization of Lumber Mills -Overhaul of the highest tier units of all factions -Hostile Creeps are currently missing in this update (currently experimenting if the lack of creeps changes the AI behavior, the flow of the game, or the atmosphere of the map) -Reforged Support (Experimental)

Download : MXE_ProjectHachigen v0.3.w3x - https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/mxe_projecthachigen-v0-3-w3x.600021/

I am also relabeling this project as a "Survival/Defense" instead of "Altered Melee" to better reflect the concept of the project. (It is still Altered Melee; but the current direction is currently leaning towards Survival due to Player vs. AI design of the game)