Nobody asked for your opinions about the Mods.

[Direfury]

The thing about America is that unlike France, they aren't afraid of the people, simply because they've got enough of a hold over them to shoot them down if they rebel, or simply screw with them until they're on the side of the government.

As of yet, I'd suggest not comparing the American government to the Hive, as I have yet to see them deleting our posts to hide these opinions.

 

[RiotZ]

The thing about America is that unlike France, they aren't afraid of the people, simply because they've got enough of a hold over them to shoot them down if they rebel, or simply screw with them until they're on the side of the government.

As of yet, I'd suggest not comparing the American government to the Hive, as I have yet to see them deleting our posts to hide these opinions.

The American government only puts down uprisings that cause them to lose money. The constitution allows freedom of speech to some extent, by nullifying that right, the person doing so would be breaking the law. That's aside from the point.

The point is everyone whines about this like a bludgeoned pig all the time, yet they get no where.. I wonder why? Because whining doesn't accomplish anything. (Not directed toward Verm) So stop posting stupid shit complaining about users complaining about mods, and go take a chill-pill, there are bigger issues in life than this petty bullshit.

 

[En_Fuego]

For example, lets take Ron Paul. He slanders the current state of the Republican party all the time, is the government sabotaging his campaign? xRiotzX, if that were the case, why the hell hasn't the United States silenced the Venus Project?

Seriously, quit bitching about the government here. It has nothing to do with the Hive and you're just ranting like a little child.

 

[Direfury]

He wants a mod position, En_Fuego.

 

[RiotZ]

For example, lets take Ron Paul. He slanders the current state of the Republican party all the time, is the government sabotaging his campaign? xRiotzX, if that were the case, why the hell hasn't the United States silenced the Venus Project?

Seriously, quit bitching about the government here. It has nothing to do with the Hive and you're just ranting like a little child.

If you would read my last sentence you would see I was defending the country I live in.

And as for your naive perception of this nation, the USA is just as tyrannical as any other country, they've been hiding the cure to cancer for ages.

 

[anarchianbedlam]

If you would read my last sentence you would see I was defending the country I live in.

And as for your naive perception of this nation, the USA is just as tyrannical as any other country, they've been hiding the cure to cancer for ages.

"shotgun to the face" is hardly the "cure" to cancer. I mean, sure it might work in some isolated cases, but we really do need further testing before those results are conclusive

 

[RiotZ]

"shotgun to the face" is hardly the "cure" to cancer. I mean, sure it might work in some isolated cases, but we really do need further testing before those results are conclusive

I never implied that..

@Vermillion: Yes that's exactly what I want, I want to be bothered with your stupid-ass questions about how to make a real model, and other problems all day in chat.. ._.

 

[Red]

A lot of what you guys are saying is true, of that I have no doubt, but I won't budge on my overriding purpose of this post - If the mods really are the abusive, fascists (Come to the Tinychat sometime, you can witness their pure evil in person!) who have gone mad with power, why are you still here? There's several other Wc3 resource databases out there. You're not paying to be here, nobody's getting a raw deal.

Nah, this whole flame war has no base in logic. Or maturity, for that matter (Thanks for demonstrating that, zRiotZx!) Seems to me like some pre-teen drama just happened to spill over from Facebook for no reason.

 

[The World Is Flat]

kinda what i was suggesting to bobo earlier.

 

[En_Fuego]

If you would read my last sentence you would see I was defending the country I live in.

And as for your naive perception of this nation, the USA is just as tyrannical as any other country, they've been hiding the cure to cancer for ages.

What the hell does tyranny have to do with them not silencing people who are just exercising their rights?

I never once said the States aren't tyrannical, I simply said they're not as bad as you think.

The cure for cancer? REALLY? Go start a revolt, ya chowdah head. Maybe then the government will silence you permanetly and do us all a favor.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Isn't this whole conversation contrasting the point of this thread?

 

[Direfury]

It's someone starting up shit and derailing the topic. Let's just ignore all that damnable Government Conspiracy crap and get back to the topic at hand, it's something that needs to be discussed properly.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Jesus riotZ. The whole point of what I said was to make us not to compare any government to internet forums. Because, you cant.

blah

Anyway, back on topic we go!

Point being, Ralle is god. He owns the site thus we have no rights. If you want to be god then go make your own site. And if you don't like this one, leave. Don't make it worse by starting unnecessary bandwagons.

Mods are users who are doing favors for ralle. They are not tyrannical conspirators out to get you. And even if they are, no one is forcing you to stay. If you really want something to do about a mod, go tattle to the admins. Thats why we have admin contact.

Public anti mod threads are no no.

 

[Direfury]

At most, there'll usually be two moderators pushing the boundaries of Ralle's lenience in their actions towards the users here.

While true Ralle has the final say, and personal bias against a person may not be a bad thing under certain circumstances, the people here are trying to get the point across that yes, we understand he has all the power, and yes, they are just users with responsibilities but they should not be exempt from the same punishments lashed out to any non-staff user.

I for one, hate arguments and these 'E-political' debates, but the fact that flamebaiting at the hands of a moderator does happen, and said moderator does not suffer punishment for commiting a punishable act, leads me to take part here. As such, my best example of unpunished, undeserving staff members would be the long gone Mini-Me. As I have said, there are and will be others pushing their luck.


Also, I am to believe Riot got himself a ban for his disruptive behavior.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well note that there is a bit of practical ethic involved, if enough people hate the mods then people will leave, if enough people leaves his site, it dies. Basically all that Machiavelli stuff, the ideally leader has to act practically.

 

[Direfury]

My usual approach is to crush any chance of something I don't want happening before it starts, which is why I'm here.

 

[En_Fuego]

There have been cases where moderators have left due to user pressure. Brad's leave wasn't exactly as peachy as "I'm getting married and moving on in life." The 323095239058023985092385 threads about him contributed.

>>;

edit: this leads me to another point. if someone posts a thread complaining about the site and it's not in Admin Contact, I vote they should be automatically banned.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Auto-banning is a bit harsh imo, and that works more to create a sort of "the mods are trying to censure you" sort of atmosphere

 

[En_Fuego]

Auto-banning is a bit harsh imo, and that works more to create a sort of "the mods are trying to censure you" sort of atmosphere

The admins ARE trying to censor you in that sense. If you have a problem, you shouldn't post it in the open, then you're just making the problem even worse.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

The problem is that if they appear to be trying to control everything, that just feeds the people who post those types of viva la revolution threads

 

[Gausslander]

Blind and unquestioned loyalty FTW

 

[Mr. Bob]

Except that it isn't 'loyalty' at all with the lack of a hierarchy, and the fact that you don't have to be here, and also the fact that your ability to be here is a service to you paid by someone else.

While I know your just kidding around, a lot of people here actually think that. So, the response wasn't entirely directed at you. :3

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

This thread in 6 words: Good intentions; wrong way to go.

Actually, this thread deserves at least 12 more: Anyone who discourages intellectual discourse deserves a nail to the eye socket.



I will say, though, that any thread that demands some kind of "revolution" or "rebellion" is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Gausslander]

This thread in 6 words: Good intentions; wrong way to go.

Actually, this thread deserves at least 12 more: Anyone who discourages intellectual discourse deserves a nail to the eye socket.



I will say, though, that any thread that demands some kind of "revolution" or "rebellion" is absolutely hilarious.

Imagine if it could actually happen though: Ralle seals himself in a thread with his higher cabinet, and hundreds of noobs bombard the thread with messages in 1337 demanding his resignation. Some infamous users take up sides against the administration and overwhelm the servers, directing the control of the site over to them. MasterHaosis would be elected and would in turn make all posts on the Hive be written fanetically, and there'd be an entire resource section dedicated to icon recolors and ripped anime models...

 

[Direfury]

Revolutions only ever breed tyranny or something that won't last.

At best, this thread should be viewed as different opinions and suggestions.

 

[XenoStalker]

...

Nice... there are about 2 pages of arguments on the US government. I guess you mention "democracy" one time and that tends to happen
From my experience with mods on this site and in general: I don't like them and I find them very unhelpful. They approve stuff, and that's what they need to do. Thus, I don't go around posting "hey let's ban this mod." There's my two sense problably won't come back to this thread. Who the heck started all of this "attacking the mods" crap anyways...? (My guess: it's always been going on...)

Skycraft: XenoStalker, your a moron. It's not mods - it's specific mods and specific people.

Don't open it, I'm a moron.

 

[Direfury]

While it's true, mods aren't here for you to ask advice from, and that they have no reason to act as advisors, perhaps we need people who will fulfill that role?

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Though certainly a symbol of great accomplishment, the position of moderator is...

Hive moderators are not simply decorated users...

 

[Fussiler1]

>>;

edit: this leads me to another point. if someone posts a thread complaining about the site and it's not in Admin Contact, I vote they should be automatically banned.

yeah but if you complain have chance of getting ignored, personal experience, so where else to go then?

 

[Devine]

Why can't we all just get along?

 

[Billy the Cat]

Posting a thread where everyone can see it is much more effective than posting it in admin contact. Especially if you can get a lot of people to take your side so the mods can't ignore it. I'm not saying it's often the right thing to do, however in some cases one would like the input of other users (and not be limited to admins) to make a point.

I haven't recently seen any threads of the kind we are talking about though so I can't really judge their usefulness.

 

[Boris_Spider]

@OP: Nobody asked you for your opinion about other's opinions about the mods. If you don't like the incessant whining here, on some forum entirely irrelevant to life, then you too can leave.

//\\==//\\

 

[Mr. Bob]

Posting a thread where everyone can see it is much more effective than posting it in admin contact. Especially if you can get a lot of people to take your side so the mods can't ignore it. I'm not saying it's often the right thing to do, however in some cases one would like the input of other users (and not be limited to admins) to make a point.

I haven't recently seen any threads of the kind we are talking about though so I can't really judge their usefulness.

Maybe more useful yes. But, it creates a snowball effect. Ends don't justify the means in this case I guess.

Plus, by useful, what it you really mean is 'easy'. It's easier to get what you want with an open thread because of how easy it is to start bandwagons. By this logic, I could likely find one thing a mod does wrong, make a thread about it, and start a giant war about how that mod needs a perma ban. When you use admin contact, at least it's evaluated properly. (In most cases anyway.) And, if it isn't, then you revert back to the original point of this thread that is: either deal, or leave.

@OP: Nobody asked you for your opinion about other's opinions about the mods. If you don't like the incessant whining here, on some forum entirely irrelavant to life, then you too can leave.

Well ofc. But, unlike getting rid of a mod, getting things fixed on the user side comes without the snowball effect. Instead, you just have one thread like this one where we all hash it out in hopes the mass revolutionary attitude will subside. When you make a thread about a mod, it generates an unhealthy attitude that snowballs into other things, and becomes an excuse to have stupid things done. Take TWIF's newsletter for instance.

Plus, while I obviously can't speak on red's behalf, I can tell you from what I've heard talking to him that this thread basically came up as an instant reaction to some recent rebellious behavior. Not so much a long time issue.

 

[Direfury]

Well, atleast these types of threads are good for fleshing out the agendas of the members participating in the conversation going on.

 

[En_Fuego]

yeah but if you complain have chance of getting ignored, personal experience, so where else to go then?

Private message?

 

[Billy the Cat]

Maybe more useful yes. But, it creates a snowball effect. Ends don't justify the means in this case I guess.

Plus, by useful, what it you really mean is 'easy'. It's easier to get what you want with an open thread because of how easy it is to start bandwagons. By this logic, I could likely find one thing a mod does wrong, make a thread about it, and start a giant war about how that mod needs a perma ban. When you use admin contact, at least it's evaluated properly. (In most cases anyway.) And, if it isn't, then you revert back to the original point of this thread that is: either deal, or leave.

I do agree with you and I don't think posting hate-threads is the right way to go, however I don't think that every user, especially when angered for whatever reason, would want to take the harder route to a solution. Perhaps a rule that asks users to take problems with any mod or user to the admin contact instead of the forum would be nice (since as far as I know there isn't already one). With the current situation I think it will be difficult to actually stop users from posting their threads assuming that the thread isn't just flaming aimed at a specific user or mod (and thus breaking the rules).

 

[GhostThruster]

You know what I realised? There actually haven't been many 'rebellions' (at least in my time). The most recent one was the newspaper, and that was like 5 people and they eventually gave up peacefully.

 

[Zombie]

I'd agree with the OP if we had a professional site management.

Sadly that is not the case, neither will it ever be if the staff is voluntary and unpaid.

Also, a lot of "bitching" at the staff is usually meant to spark an improvement, at least from the side of more experienced members.

 

[Direfury]

Gotta love it when rebels channel the spirit of France.

Vive la revolu- We give up!

 

[The World Is Flat]

LOL.
My newspaper, a rebellion, just lol.

It was a user having a somwhat humourous and non-serious rant. a rebellion, that just sounds so paranoid, its not like it is possible for a 'rebellion' to do anything at all aside from a flame war.

But again, not that I care.

 

[Direfury]

When I see threads going all Vlad the Impaler, putting mod avatars on sticks and shit, then I'll call it a rebellion.

 

[Mr. Bob]

LOL.
My newspaper, a rebellion, just lol.

It was a user having a somwhat humourous and non-serious rant. a rebellion, that just sounds so paranoid, its not like it is possible for a 'rebellion' to do anything at all aside from a flame war.

But again, not that I care.

No, I meant how other people defending it were using the "evil moderator" card.

 

[Direfury]

It's a gag, more or less. There's nothing to tie it to other than entertainment.

 

[GhostThruster]

See, that's what I mean! It's not "Nobody asked for your opinions about the Mods", it's more like "Nobody HAS an opinion about the Mods", or at least "5 or 6 people have an opinion about the Mods"

 

[Direfury]

I've got my opinions, but unless they go off on some rampage against innocent people, I'm not wasting my time.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

i have to be NICE to people?
i didnt realise "be nice" was on my list of things to do as a mod. did someone also leave out "entertain the users with peekaboo", "spoonfeed them instructions" and "pat them on the back so they get a good burp"?

as far as i was concerned, it was "punish the trolls and clean up the mess they've made"
all the OTHER things that mods do, they do because it is how they are. its like how some people think purplepoot is an asshole and an elitist because he used to be in the staff. purplepoot acts the way he does because thats how he is. there is no other reason. just like every other staff members. and they will continue to do whatever they feel like even if they werent a mod.

that being said, we also cannot change how users act and will continue to act. people will always need some sort of scapegoat. they need an outsider. they need "them". and that fact wont change no matter how much we try.

also. that newspaper thing. i first posted there because i was thinking "hey. some idiot played the "mods vs us" card again without any means of backing himself up. might as well rebut it and put some sarcastic comments about the article itself as well". then i realised the newspaper thing was shockingly constructed so i decided to continue arguing with that. i dont think i wanted the team to quit. as far as quitting was concerned, they decided it themselves. no outside decision by the mods, especially not by some special hidden group of mods, to FORCED it to close.

 

[Direfury]

As far as instituting "lolbnice2users" rules goes, if anything, it should apply to new moderators. Let the ones from before the change be total douchebags or however they choose to be, quite a few'll probably step down sooner or later anyway.

That said, you won't have to be nice to people. Hopefully I won't have to be either.

Chewing out the self-righteous or right out bitchy assholes that spring up is fun.

 

[GhostThruster]

No one said that mods being nice is a must. The closest thing to is my comment about how sometimes if you don't, it contributes to the mods-vs-users shit going on.

See there? You could have just said "Mods don't have to be nice, our job is to maintain the Hive". But no, let's over-exaggerate everything and persecute someone's opinion.

 

[LucasMapurunga]

Mods don't have to be nice. They are here to do their job, mostly. So if they act one time or another as douchebags, it's they personality, not cause they're mods.

Pyramidhe@d himself give us an advice to delete some posts in chat. This is being nice and do his job at the same time, IMO.

 

[Skycraft]

My interpretation of the moderators -
"Humanoids without any sort of emotion that are there to assist you in completion and praise of your ideals - in some cases however, this does not occur. This may be because your work is either irrelevant, foreign or it is too minimal of a unique piece to be reviewed. If in this instance you are upset/angry with the explanation given to you, then you can proceed to the Administration Contact - where you may donate all your queries/complaints."

I just thought I would share that since we are all singing our opinions of the moderation and administration team.