Nobody asked for your opinions about the Mods.

[Wazzz]

As far as instituting "lolbnice2users" rules goes, if anything, it should apply to new moderators. Let the ones from before the change be total douchebags or however they choose to be, quite a few'll probably step down sooner or later anyway.

That said, you won't have to be nice to people. Hopefully I won't have to be either.

Chewing out the self-righteous or right out bitchy assholes that spring up is fun.

It is, isn't it? Mr. Bob and co. showed me how fun it is to be douchebags to bitchy assholes =D

 

[GhostThruster]

NO ONE, including myself, is saying that the law for Mods is to be super nice and fwiendly to users, ESPECIALLY bitchy assholes, but it's always better to be less hostile.

EDIT for below: Sorry, it sounded like you were accusing me of trying to enforce the mods to be cutesy wootsy.

 

[LucasMapurunga]

@LucasMapurunga: That's what I said...

NO ONE, including myself, is saying that the law for Mods is to be super nice and fwiendly to users, ESPECIALLY bitchy assholes, but it's always better to be less hostile.

I was agreeing with you, mister.

Now i'm thinking about this situation : imagine mods were always nice and shiny, wouldn't people take advantage in it ?

 

[Gausslander]

I've always thought the mods here were intelligible, opinionated people.

They've always been the most elite users on the hive, and have harnessed the most knowledge about the game and how to modify it. Never have I encountered a mod or administrator that didn't have great knowledge for their claimed field of expertise, such as modeling, programming, map making, etc.

And the fact they've put up with reviewing all of the maps that are uploaded and testing all of the resources that are submitted is very kind and helpful to all modders worldwide.

They deserve our loyalty and respect for the job they do here, and none of us should insult them or their work, no matter how harsh they might come across--they are just trying to help the site and its users.

 

[Direfury]

If someone can do their job, excels in their field of work and is a helpful member of the community, then they're a shining example of a respectable member and moderator.

On the other scale, if said person were a complete dick, they'd still be trash, like any abusive person.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Funny how a thread titled "Nobody asked for your opinions about the Mods" has become a thread in which everyone gets their 2 cents in about how they feel about the mods.

 

[Direfury]

Guess I'm not the only one who answers questions that were never asked in the first place.

 

[GhostThruster]

Yeah, but those guys are complimenting them, so it's a win-win situation.

To start with, this thread is Red Shift's opinion about the mods anyways; "Hive moderators are not simply decorated users, they are users among us who have defined a standard of useful, quality resources, and have taken up the responsibility to uphold that standard to and to ensure that the site does not become cluttered with unfairly ripped resources, or that the bandwidth is not burdened by redundant or poor quality resources.", albeit trying to protect them.

 

[anarchianbedlam]

Now...this is strange. I'm pretty sure that this thread was created to inform people that "nobody asked for your opinion about the mods", meaning basically that.... nobody asked for your opinion about the mods.

And yet somehow, people decipher this ambiguous riddle of a sentence as "hey, redshift Is asking me for my opinion about the mods. I should tell redshift my opinion about the mods" whereas they then proceed to post their opinion about the mods, when quite clearly redshift's thread, main post and even thread title was that "nobody had asked for your opinion..... about the mods"

Usually if people dont like their government then they complain or in extreme cases start protests or revolutions.... I can only imagine because they LIVE in the country of their government and they are essentially STUCK in that one place, ruled by said government.

Here's the confusing part..... as far as i know, it's pretty much physically impossible to live ON the internet. Despite what you're World of Warcraft friends have told you, you do indeed live in real life. So in fact, you come here of your own free will and enjoy the hospitality of the webmaster (in this case Ralle). And furthermore have nothing physically invested in this website except the time you waste here.

So in what way do users have the right to rage against the authority here?
I mean, if you have a legitimate cause to gripe, then ralle has, in his immense wisdom and foresight, created a forum called the "admin contact".

So these public "anti-mod" posts serve only to troll either the currently active mods or those few normal users who have no problem with graciously using and accepting the webmaster's decisions and those who act on his behalf.

And now we come to the funny part. I am a moderator, hence no matter how well i have chosen my words, formed my cognitive sentences, crafted my amazing, logical and immensely genius points to counter the insipid, naive, comments of the utterly braindead masses of "emo 12 year olds"....

I WILL BE IGNORED

and it's not because you legitimately disagree with me, it wont be because you have argued with me in the past over some trivial matter or that i may very well be, in my heart and soul, a complete jackass.... no, none of this matters, you will all ignore my post because I am a mod. And by being a moderator, you all assume that i am merely trying to defend my position or save my ass or because im corrupt and all that other bullshit. You will ignore all of these perfectly logical points because you are raging against the machine. Just like you ignored Redshift's post, thread and thread title, his avatar and all of his words.

Right now you all must be very confused. On one hand, i am a mod and i have posted in a pro-shutthefuckup-sentiment. but on the other hand, i have also said that you would ignore me. So how can you possibly post something witty and smart-assy now when quite clearly whichever you do would mean that you agree with this post on some point. SO! to make it easier for you wonderful children... here is a reaction picture that will draw your eye and likely cause you to skip over all the text or forget what i've said and the points i've brought up.

AND THUS THE STATUS QUOTE IS RESTORED
enjoy your day

 

[Mr. Bob]

 

[GhostThruster]

Now, I know you're a mod, but, you just repeated Red Shift... That would be ok, except that no one, at least in this thread, is against mods. Seriously, read the whole thread. I've said this before, the closest thing to a complaint against you was my post about the 'unniceness issue'. Everyone else is either agreeing with Red Shift or just complimenting mods more.

 

[anarchianbedlam]

Exactly, and the same goes for those comments, the brown nosers who are trying to jerk off the mod's Internet cocks. again, you fail to realize the entire point of this thread and my post.

no one asked for an opinion about the mods. and yet, people assert their opinion about the mods in the very thread that asks for no opinions.... about the mods. It's fucking hilarious

 

[GhostThruster]

Wait, wait, wait...

People here are like "In my opinion, mods are respected people with dignity, and they do their job well" (I think that you guys do your jobs well too)

And then you're like "Don't rage at mods, you ungrateful pigs! No one wants your opinion!"

What do you expect for this thread? It's like saying "Don't eat the cake". People will, ofcourse, eat the cake.

 

[Mr. Bob]

No that is not what he said at all. Did you even read his post?

He said the point of this thread is: No one asked for your opinion about the mods.

Thus, you shouldn't be giving your opinions about the mods. Opinions don't always have to be bad. Ass kissers can be just as bad as revolutionists.

 

[anarchianbedlam]

Let them eat cake

 

[GhostThruster]

Of course I read what he said, that's why I'm questioning why he doesn't like the positive opinions as well.

Aren't you also "positively opinionating" the mods? Isn't the OP ALSO "positively opinionating" the mods, thereby rendering the thread hypocritical and thereby also rendering this discussion kinda stupid?

Let them eat cake? I'm really confused now. The point of that metaphor was to say that a thread of such title will attract such posts, and a second ago you were like 'Posting ANY opinions about us is bad' and 'I can't believe they're posting their opinions in a thread with a title "we don't want your opinions"', and now you're like "*attaches image of a lady* Let them post your opinions about moderators".

 

[Gausslander]

If you don't like a positive comment you can always ignore it. Insulting them isn't exactly foregoing.

 

[Mr. Bob]

No?

I don't recall saying anything good about the mods, nor red saying anything.

We are straying from the point. The point is, wether the mods are good or bad is not our problem. If it is a problem, use admin contact. Your opinions regarding the mods are not useful and honestly can cause bad things to happen when publicly announced. Good or bad.

 

[GhostThruster]

Hive moderators are not simply decorated users, they are users among us who have defined a standard of useful, quality resources, and have taken up the responsibility to uphold that standard to and to ensure that the site does not become cluttered with unfairly ripped resources, or that the bandwidth is not burdened by redundant or poor quality resources.

That's technically a positive opinion. But, whatever, you guys are senior members, you know more than me, I shall go quiet and not 'opinionate'.

 

[Mr. Bob]

No hes reminding us of why we actually have mods, and what you sort of have to be to be chosen as one.

 

[GhostThruster]

Yeah, I can't be stuffed arguing.

 

[Boris_Spider]

What was the point of starting this thread in the first place?

Did the OP want to start a mod/user flame war?

Is it rare for users to read thread titles? (Users posting opinions in regards to mods in a thread stating the opinion that other users don't care about the posters' opinions in regards to mods)

Why is everyone glorifying mods? They're the bottom of the food chain. Users > ralle > Admin > Mods. (Users are the lifeblood of this site. Without us, there would be no reasons for Admin/Mods to exist since ralle could do everything by himself.)

//\\0o//\\

 

[Mr. Bob]

No one is glorifying the mods. And this isn't a flame war. Read the last page or so.

And no, users/mods/admins are on the same playing field as we don't own any of the site. Ralle is at the top as he owns it. Regardless, of how many people are here.

And no, I don't believe there were opinions about the mods in the OP.

 

[GhostThruster]

Lets just agree with Red Shift like everyone else and not have opinions on mods.

Yeah, right, god, awful, users suck, yeah, damn, agreed, indeed, yeah!

 

[leet.firefox]

Though certainly a symbol of great accomplishment

lol'ed

 

[Vunjo]

And no, users/mods/admins are on the same playing field as we don't own any of the site. Ralle is at the top as he owns it. Regardless, of how many people are here.

So, if Ralle is on top, isn't it democracy then?
Also, people are not complaining on Mods themselves, people are complaining how they or other users (sometimes) just see a resource, find few bad things, which some of them are not really visible, or doesn't really matter. It's same as teachers, why they sometimes give bad marks if they know that pupil deserves more? It is because pupil got kinda offended, and knows that he/she must start learning more, so he/she can be better. That way, teachers are actually helping pupils, and there's no such word that can denie it. And the whole same thing is for Mods and Users too. Just imagine, you work on a resource for a long time, and a simple User not mod, but a User says something like this, it happened to me:
-This map sux 3/5 vote for rejection
Other a bit friendlier guy says:
-Why 3/5 and you vote for rejection and say it's bad, it's enough for approval
Then he says:
-Because I wont to say like that!

Not just that he had wrong english (want instead of wont), but he also shows that he is not a good reviever (n00b), and such guys, which will allways rate badly, hurt people's feelings, and they cannot learn about it. I mean, who cares if a pro says that a resource sux, he's a pro, he's a Mod, and that's why we must (but people rarely do) appreciate critic/comment. I am sure, that most of people that are "mad at Mods", aren't mad at them, but are mad at other users, who give bad critics, even when they are 100% wrong. Here's one case that happened to my friend. Now the one who gives a critic, mostly says bad things in map:
-Lame model for a general, I mean, how can an Elven Spearman become a leader?

I just loled when I read it, because he cannot say that it's a bad thing using a spearman as a warchief. Who knows, maybe there were many generals/warchieves with spears. That post is really funny, and it's clearly seen, that the one who gave a critic only looked for bad things, he wanted to post 10 or more bad things, but he didn't find them, so he made some of them up, which is deffinetly not good.
Conclusion: People are not mad at Mods themselves, but are mad at some not fair comments, and other users too.

 

[anarchianbedlam]

Ralle is not called the Webpresident... he is a Webmaster. hence, no democracy

 

[Immolater]

Post that on the site discussion, if you please.

 

[The World Is Flat]

@Vunjo

Anger finds ways of propigating itself throught a demograpic, and directing that at the people who in popular belief, have more than them.

 

[Vunjo]

@Vunjo

Anger finds ways of propigating itself throught a demograpic, and directing that at the people who in popular belief, have more than them.

Ergh, you think that I am angry? lolz

 

[The World Is Flat]

I never suggested you.

 

[leet.firefox]

You* guys really like throwing out "hive is not a democracy", don't you?
It's not like a group of users have ever bitched about features or problems in a specific section of the site to the respective moderator, that moderator brought it up with the other staff, and the issue(s) resolved. Because that's like, totally not how a democracy works, amirite?

Nobody asked for your opinion either, shift. The moderators also knew what they were getting into when they accepted their positions. If they don't like the way they're treated, they can leave or not accept the position. Anywhere there is a group of individuals who preside over another group, there will be doubt and disorder. If there wasn't, then why would we need a group of people looking over another group? No system is perfect, you just make do with what you have and chug along. These threads just incite more drama and anger. I'd hazard a guess and say more than a few people aren't even aware there is a problem until threads like these are created.

The mod-hate has never gotten so bad that the moderators can't do their jobs. And if it does, maybe the staff should take a bit of its own medicine and stop treating the site like a democracy. Man the fuck up and just do your jobs, the more you guys whine like a little bitch, the more flies will be drawn to your period-blood.

Oh and one more thing, stop bitching about other people bitching. If you don't want to hear other people's opinion, then don't make a fucking post on an open forum.

Go ahead and quote and tear this apart, leet.firefox out!

*most of the "you"s reference no specific person

 

[The_wand_mirror]

First a couple of annoying, funny or childish users and now somekind of politics.

Glad i don't get involved... i'm not gonna read all these posts lol.

 

[Boris_Spider]

No one is glorifying the mods. And this isn't a flame war. Read the last page or so.

And no, users/mods/admins are on the same playing field as we don't own any of the site. Ralle is at the top as he owns it. Regardless, of how many people are here.

And no, I don't believe there were opinions about the mods in the OP.

~One or two users are...

~I realize it isn't a flame war, but it could easily become one (based on earlier comments refering to similar threads). I've viewed all the pages to date.

~Ralle can destroy/cripple the site the easiest, but we users (as a whole) are also capable of destroying this site (in a sense). We may not be able to take it down, but we can abandon it - even though that is very unlikely to occur it's still possible. We are just as crucial to this site as ralle is.

First a couple of annoying, funny or childish users and now somekind of politics.

Glad i don't get involved... i'm not gonna read all these posts lol.

Everything includes/contains politics or elements thereof.

Posting gets you involved...

//\\0o//\\

 

[GhostThruster]

@leet.firefox:

I totally agree, and this thread is kinda stupid.

@Boris_Spider: This isn't a government, this is more like going to your friend's place. Ralle is the mum, the one who tries to make every nice and comfy, but is ultimately in charge, all Mods combine to be the father, who like to enjoy themselves above all but occasionally help out your friend's mum, Warcraft is your friend, which is why you want to visit THW in the first place, and you're you.

If ANY of youse DARE think of a better metaphor, I will KILL you.

 

[Boris_Spider]

@Boris_Spider: This isn't a government, this is more like going to your friend's place. Ralle is the mum, the one who tries to make every nice and comfy, but is ultimately in charge, all Mods combine to be the father, who like to enjoy themselves above all but occasionally help out your friend's mum, Warcraft is your friend, which is why you want to visit THW in the first place, and you're you.

If ANY of youse DARE think of a better metaphor, I will KILL you.

This is a form of government, but it's not any of the standard ones (Democratic/Tolitarian/Communist/Dictatorship/Monarchy/Parlimentary/Facist/Representative). Ralle is ultimately responsible for maintaining his forum. He uses admin to help him by overseeing general aspects of this forum, who in turn use mods to help them maintain specific aspects of this forum. There is a set of rules established and loosely enforced.

Definition of a goverment

In the social sciences, the term government refers to the particular group of people, the administrative bureaucracy, who control a state at a given time, and the manner in which their governing organizations are structured.[1][2] That is, governments are the means through which state power is employed. States are served by a continuous succession of different governments.[3]

Each successive government is composed of a specialized and privileged body of individuals, who monopolize political decision-making, and are separated by status and organization from the population as a whole. Their function is to enforce existing laws, legislate new ones, and arbitrate conflicts via their monopoly on violence. In some societies, this group is often a self-perpetuating or hereditary class. In other societies, such as democracies, the political roles remain, but there is frequent turnover of the people actually filling the positions.[4]

In most Western societies, there is a clear distinction between a government and the state. Public disapproval of a particular government (expressed, for example, by not re-electing an incumbent) does not necessarily represent disapproval of the state itself (i.e. of the particular framework of government). However, some in some totalitarian regimes, there is not a clear distinction between the regime and the state. In fact, leaders in such regimes often attempt to deliberately blur the lines between to two, in order to conflate their own selfish interests with those of the polity.[5]
Source

By definition, THW is a government.

THW could exist without the users, and ralle could maintain the site on his own with irregular visitors. The entire system he set up is in response to the abundance of users present. Without us, THW would just be another personal web site.

As for the home analogy, ... it doesn't work. Although the many-fathers idea is somewhat amusing in a sad way.

//\\oo//\\

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

You can't specifically call a website a government or a family.
Basically, owning the server, Ralle is free to run the site how he pleases, and if he wants extreme censure ship and to ban everyone who disagrees he has every right to do so.
But also note that it's not exactly a dictatorship either, as he has no power to force users to stay on the site - he cannot control if you can go as you please, but he can control if you can come. The difference? Well not having a captive population like a totalitarian dictatorship, he is not able to keep the serfs working the land - basically he has every right to run the site as he pleases, and you have every right to rage quit the site if you don't like it. Needless to say, any forum without a user-base dies, so if the way he's running the site enrages the users - they can leave, if enough leaves the site dies.

SOOO from this we can infer that neither interpretation is completely appropriate.
No, the users cannot force the moderation into doing anything they don't want to, as it's not a government in which the people are directly involved with majority rule.
No, the moderation can't just go about being "total dicks" to all the users, as that'd cause them all to leave.


I'm not trying to make a statement about the moderation in general here, but I'm trying to point out the common metaphors used to describe the way a website is run aren't completely appropriate for the situation due to a few key factors.

 

[GhostThruster]

Hey, you gotta admit, my metaphor was pretty close though PP

I meant all the mods and admins were just 1 father, and it kinda fits. The mum does most of the work, and occasionally the father comes into help and suggest stuff and punish the naughty kiddies.

And, its much closer to comparing this to a government. What we fail to realise is that this site is for a game for 13 year-olds, that no, it ain't a government, and that we 20 year-old bastards take this shit too seriously, when really, its just a bit of fun (LIKE GOING TO YOUR MATE'S, BAM).

 

[Boris_Spider]

'Website' is the wrong word. 'Forum' is actually what I was refering to.

I also stated that THW doesn't fit any of the 'standard' government models. By standard I mean those commonly compared to. THW is a type of government aimed at supporting it's user base.

//\\oo//\\

Edit:
It seems that everyone posting views governments as either dictators or elected representatives - not true with the connotation being used. Governments are born when a group of people interact through particular mediums and/or trade particular resources. They don't have to be formal bureaucracies or organizations.

As for taking this seriously, I hope no one is. I'm just killing some time like the rest of you.

 

[MortAr]

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

^ Well said

 

[enjoy]

The hiveworkshop isn't really ruled by anyone.
Suggestions may come from admins or moderators, as well as come from the users.
If a user has a good suggestion, it usually is suggested in the Mod's lobby, where the mods discuss it. Though Ralle would like to know what is going on, and that we usually asks for his final approval, suggestions and choices is discussed firmly, before action is taken.
So in other words, almost nothing on hive is a one-person dicision.

When that is said, of course some actions are made by one moderator alone, for an example, in the skin section, icon section, model section, and so on. But a moderator does not reject a resource because they don't like it, if the resource is useful, and the users is giving it good and valid ratings.
Moderators look carefully at the resource, and what the users have said before making a decision. We also however, look on what users have said it. Many users rate everything 5/5, and therefor, we often do not count new users votes in, sorry to say.
But as Red Shift pointed out, we are trying to keep a certain standard, when it comes to the resources. And IF the resource is rejected, I do not think the moderators would mind, if you ask questions to why it was rejected, or how to improve.

If anyone feels unfairly treated by a moderator, they can always file a complain and then the admins will look into it. But moderators do not make choices based on only their own opinion about things. If they do, it is fair to feel unfairly treated. But then you can, as already said, report it in the admin contact forum.

No reason to hate the moderators. They are there to help out. And yes, sometimes they can make wrong dicisions, but mods are ofcourse only human, just like the rest of us. And we are not specially trained or anything, in handling siturations. To be a moderator, is an offer which we have accepted, to do in our sparetime to help others, without getting any benefits in return. I do not see the reason for the "hate" towards the people, who are really just trying to help.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

srs bsnss

 

[Devine]

Now that's a good singer.
Love his steps too.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

This movie's good for popcorn. Bringing some.

 

[Khaled]

I can't wait to see someone make a communism joke.

Communism means that absolutely everyone is equal (REALLY equal) but somes are more equal than others, and personally I see no communism here

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

/necro

~closed~