NEW rts Augmentation Warfare

Reaper51 · Jul 15, 2010

Oh right, ill send you the un OPT one, sorry.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 15, 2010

Oh right, ill send you the un OPT one, sorry.

, you don't have to say sorry :cwink:

, it isn't a big deal (atleast not for me

)

memnoc · Jul 16, 2010

I don't know if it's been suggested, but if you're going to use Clockwerk Goblins as a worker unit, you should use:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/clockworker-rizz_boomer-159384/

Because, unlike what you're currently using, these are designed to be specifically worker units.

Reaper51 · Jul 16, 2010

[K40$]-Spectre you are right for AIs sake, I'm redoing Modular Combat to be AI friendly. As long as you don't have more than 4 races, than you are fine. I deleted the UI for now and I'm working hard to get all the systems complete for the alpha.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 16, 2010

I don't know if it's been suggested, but if you're going to use Clockwerk Goblins as a worker unit, you should use:

Clockworker by Rizz_Boomer

Because, unlike what you're currently using, these are designed to be specifically worker units.

, it wasn't suggested before, I had thought of it though. I think I'll add it in the next update. Thanks for the input, +rep.

[K40$]-Spectre you are right for AIs sake, I'm redoing Modular Combat to be AI friendly. As long as you don't have more than 4 races, than you are fine. I deleted the UI for now and I'm working hard to get all the systems complete for the alpha.

, how large was the ui actually, 250kb (after optimized)? Well you can have more races and still with AI, but than you have to do it Creeps Rebellion style; using handicap (lowers hp of all the units/buildings the player has) and use a trigger which sets the handicap for that AI player to normal (so no decrease in hp) and through the detection of the handicap you can let that ai player start with e.g. the 5th race's units, buildings and ai.

Reaper51 · Jul 16, 2010

It was 700kb 50% jpeg quality, but i had 2 UIs. One about 200kb and the other 500kb. I'm only going to have 4 races because more are harder to balance and you can pick your race in the wc3 menu before the map begins.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 16, 2010

It was 700kb 50% jpeg quality, but i had 2 UIs. One about 200kb and the other 500kb. I'm only going to have 4 races because more are harder to balance

, I completely agree with you here, 3 or 4 races is best in my opnion. Many mods which adds like 6 races are often imbalanced and badly done.

Reaper51 · Jul 16, 2010

Hey [K40$]-Spectre, i just made the best race selection ever, and its way shorter and allows AI:

Races
- Events
  - Map initialization
- Conditions
- Actions
  - Player Group - Pick every player in (All players) and do (Actions)
    - Loop - Actions
      - If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Race of (Picked player)) Equal to Human
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Unit - Create 1 Command Center for (Picked player) at ((Picked player) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
        
        Unit - Create 3 MCV for (Picked player) at ((Picked player) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        ((Picked player) controller) Equal to Computer
        
        Then - Actions
        
        AI - Start melee AI script for (Picked player): <Empty String>
        
        Else - Actions
        
        Else - Actions
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Race of (Picked player)) Equal to Orc
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Unit - Create 1 Barracks for (Picked player) at ((Picked player) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
        
        Unit - Create 5 MCV for (Picked player) at ((Picked player) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        ((Picked player) controller) Equal to Computer
        
        Then - Actions
        
        AI - Start melee AI script for (Picked player): <Empty String>
        
        Else - Actions
        
        Else - Actions
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Race of (Picked player)) Equal to Undead
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Unit - Create 1 for (Picked player) at ((Picked player) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
        
        Unit - Create 1 MCV for (Picked player) at ((Picked player) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        ((Picked player) controller) Equal to Computer
        
        Then - Actions
        
        AI - Start melee AI script for (Picked player): <Empty String>
        
        Else - Actions
        
        Else - Actions
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        (Race of (Picked player)) Equal to Night Elf
        
        Then - Actions
        
        Unit - Create 1 for (Picked player) at ((Picked player) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
        
        Unit - Create 1 MCV for (Picked player) at ((Picked player) start location) facing Default building facing degrees
        
        If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        
        If - Conditions
        
        ((Picked player) controller) Equal to Computer
        
        Then - Actions
        
        AI - Start melee AI script for (Picked player): <Empty String>
        
        Else - Actions
        
        Else - Actions

It works on every player so you don't have to copy and paste the trigger 8 times.

I scrapped the dialog box race selection system since I'm not gonna have more than 4 races anyway and I'm using this short effective trigger. I highly recommend you to use it as well.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 16, 2010

Hey [K40$]-Spectre, i just made the best race selection ever, and its way shorter and allows AI:
The Trigger
It works on every player so you don't have to copy and paste the trigger 8 times.

, looks good, but you do need to copy it 8 times for the AI right? Or can you use 'picked player' instead 'player 1'?

Btw here's the changelog for the next update atm:

V1.2: the armor upgrades from the Series 11 have been fixed. Air transports have been added. Mechanical worker has new model. Augs, parts etc cheaper. Orca's faster and Venoms a tad slower. Series 11 units better. Added a Stealth Generator for Series 11 (this is the only thing left to do for this update).

Reaper51 · Jul 16, 2010

You can use picked player with any player. Trigger updated! ^Look Up^

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 16, 2010

You can use picked player with any player. Trigger updated!

, so I only need this trigger for all 8 players? Nice work, +rep if I can.

Reaper51 · Jul 16, 2010

Yep it simplifies the trigger greatly. I'm only gonna use this from now on.
I'm reworking the item system right now...

Edit: New Item System Found! http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...inite-number-item-classes-162448/#post1523209

And here's is a normal tool-tip in my map : )

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 17, 2010

Changelist version 1.2: the armor upgrades from the Series 11 have been fixed. Air transports have been added. Mechanical worker has new model. Augs, parts etc cheaper. Orca's faster and Venoms slower. Series 11 units better. Added a Stealth Generator for Series 11.

Hope you guys like the new improvements, Series 11 has is way more focussed on (offensive) stealth now because of their new cloaked transport and their new handy Stealth Generator which effects units.

Yep it simplifies the trigger greatly. I'm only gonna use this from now on.
I'm reworking the item system right now...

, I kindy forget to add your new race trigger btw, will add that in v1.3

Edit: New Item System Found! http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...ugmentation-warfare-171000/t...8/#post1523209

, the old one this map has is fine, but thanks for the input.

And here's is a normal tool-tip in my map : )

Attachment 85821

, it's very nice, you should only make the purple text more readable and removes some of the useless lines like "targeted as" (if you already say that in the white description by not writing "flying" in it. Atm I like the one in my map also since you can you just quickly read about 3-5 words and get an idea how to use the unit (less reading, more playing).

-Edit

Next update will allow the Stealth Generator to also cloak friendly buildings. If will ofcourse not only feature that but more ofcourse.

Reaper51 · Jul 18, 2010

The Stealth Generator Tooltip says its a Telsa Tower.

GhostThruster · Jul 18, 2010

Sorry for the long wait, but I got the icons done.
You may send me another updated map so I can do the icons of those WITH a list!

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 18, 2010

The Stealth Generator Tooltip says its a Telsa Tower.

, everytime I base something of the tesla I make that fault :\, thanks for saying will fix it

Sorry for the long wait, but I got the icons done.
You may send me another updated map so I can do the icons of those WITH a list!

,nice work dude, +rep if I can. Now I won't have the use holy bolt ability icon for the PrismTower anymore

. Going to add them rightaway and upload the new version (these icons, cooler Stealth Generator and tooltip fix). Then I'll start again on the Nomads.

Q; should I reduce filesize of the map?

Tleno · Jul 18, 2010

Yes you could a bit... but using what?

GhostThruster · Jul 18, 2010

I'd suggest Vexorian's Optimizer combined with the Widgetizer.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 18, 2010

I'd suggest Vexorian's Optimizer combined with the Widgetizer.

, I already used the optimizer and widgetizer makes filesize bigger I think (but faster loading times, am not sure). I also heavily squashed models and resized skins, so I actually already optimized it alot (even AI) but I may can do it a bit more.

Yes you could a bit... but using what?

, UTC buildings and icons maybe. UTC buildings are only squashed one time and take about the most filesize relative per import (~150 kb without WE with squasing lowering it for about each UTC building). As for icons, some of them are 11 kb, maybe I can make them to 7-8 kb or just remove some replace them with standard wcr3 icons. I also have custom tileset imported, I may reduce the size of that one (it's ~170 kb I think).

Also the Nomad race is already fully imported.

Reaper51 · Jul 18, 2010

I can make icons 3-4kb with 50% jpeg quality (My special tricks)
Normal in-game imported (both 6kb):
View attachment BTNWatchtower.blp View attachment DISBTNWatchtower.blp
With my stuff: BTN 3kb and DISBTN 2kb ingame:
View attachment BTNWatchtower2.blp View attachment DISBTNWatchtower2.blp
Its at 50% jpeg quality, can you tell the difference?
Not really, can you have 2x the amount of icons in your map? hell yes!

If you saw my age of war map imported stuff, and you sorted it by size,
all DISBTN's were 2kb and all BTN's were 3-4kb. (No exceptions)
In your map there were icons all over the place! 6-17kb!

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 18, 2010

I can make icons 3-4kb with 50% jpeg quality (My special tricks)

, 3 or 4 kb would be make a difference, would mind telling me your secret?

btw, @Reaper, what kind of AI do you want for your Age of Empires map? (agressive [builds less defense and more offense], defensive [builds a shitload of towers but offense is weaker], like my map [takes time before first attack but allows the computer to build a base for quickly rebuilding large armies along with defences & expands 1 time, recommended since AI editor is best for this one])?

Reaper51 · Jul 18, 2010

A bit of both, every age i want a least 1 attack.
Ground Forces:
First Age > 12 axemen/ninjas
Second age > 12 swordsmen 12 archers 6 spearmen and 6 javelineers (if available to civ)
Third age > 12 elite/long swordsmen 8 crusaders/elite ninjas 6 spearmen 6 javelineers 6 archers 8 crossbomen 6 horse archers 8 knights/cavlary 2 catapults 2 ballistas 2 battering rams
Fourth Age > 12 elite/long swordsmen 8 pikemen/halberdiers 12 crossbomen 12 cavaliers/paladins 6 horse archers 6 arqubuseers 3 heavy catapults 3 heavy ballistas 3 battering rams 3 cannons (Note: Siege Towers and Trebuchets might be hard to do in AI)
Fifth Age > 12 pikemen/halberdiers 12 cavaliers/paladins 8 dragoneers 12 arqubuseers 8 musketeers 4 heavy cannons 2 bombard cannons.
Naval:
First Age > Nothing
Second Age > 6 Galleys
Third Age > 8 War Galleys 4 Fire ships
Fourth Age > 12 Galleons 6 Fire Ships
Fifth Age > 12 Galleons 6 Fire Ships 6 Cannon Galleons 2 Frigates
Defense:
(Note many defensive structures needs at least 1 unit to garrison in it to work)
First Age > Nothing
Second Age > 2 Watch Towers
Third Age > 2 Guard Towers and a Castle
Fourth Age > 2 Garrisons and a Castle
Fifth Age > 2 Heavy Garrisons 2 Cannon Towers and a Castle
Expansions:
First Age > Nothing
Second Age > An additional Town Center at a mine
Third Age > An additional Town Center at a mine
Fourth Age > An additional Town Center at a mine
Fifth Age > An additional Town Center at a mine
Some units are not available to some civs. If you want, you can make unique units, but they are all different in all civs.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 18, 2010

@Reaper51, I will begin working on it. There are two things though, I can't do water units (I think it's even impossible to create decent ai for water units when combined with land units and buildings).

and

(Note many defensive structures needs at least 1 unit to garrison in it to work)

, this is not possible with AI editor to order the computer units to garrison in buildings I think, it's possible with AI triggers (but I don't know how).

However this won't stop me from making a decent AI

.

Reaper51 · Jul 18, 2010

OK, I'm fine with that. I will post an icon size reduction tutorial soon.
Step 1 - The Tools
You will need to download 2 tools from this site to begin this tutorial
-Button Manager
-BLP Lab
Step 2 - Acquiring An Icon
For this part, you can either download an icon or make your own.
I have chosen BTNShadowTorment by FrIkY as my example icon.
Step 3 - Using Button Manager
After i got my icon, i extracted the BTN, you don't need the DISBTN because Button Manager will automatically make it for you

Check the icon size, for mine it was: BTN: 10.5kb! and DISBTN: 7.17KB!
Now open the Button Manager.
Go to File > Open File (Shortcut Control + O)
Now under standard borders, click on button.
You will see the image change slightly.
Now click on File > Save (Note this will overwrite your default icon)
You will now see that your icon size has changed and a DISBTN has been added.
My file sizes were:
BTN: 5.13kb
DISBTN: 3.63kb
You think that's small, but we are not done yet : )
Step 3 - Using BLP Lab
Before you open BLP Lab, you should make 2 folders on your desktop or somewhere.
For me, i made "a" and "b"
Now place your icons in folder "a"
Open up BLP Lab and go to Tools > Mass Converter
Make sure that all Source formats are checked
Make the Destination format BLP
Now find your source folder, or "a" the place where you placed your icons
Then find your destination folder "b"
Now go to BLP Options
Mipmap count should be at 10
The compressed quality should be 50%
Merge Headers should be checked off
Now press OK and then press convert
Step 4 - The Results
Now import those icons in folder "b" to your map
In the import manager i saw BTN: 4kb DISBTN: 3kb
The size is under 50% size of the original and looks great!
Step 5 - Other Uses
You can do the same trick to BLP textures for units
You just skip the Button Manager Part though
For example I'm gonna use Pirate - Buccaneer by Lightskin
I downloaded the skin file and its in the BLP format, the size is: 81kb
Now i drag and drop it to the "a" folder, open BLP Lab, then go to Tools > Mass Converter and i press covert
Then i check folder "b" and its size is: 44kb!
Step 6 - Conclusion
This means you can import 2x the stuff in your map for the same size!

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 18, 2010

@ Reaper51, since you got many factions/countries (which works like races when editing in the AI editor) which faction you want AI for? (I say this because you have about twelve different factions/countries and those aren't exactly the same so for each faction/country an unique ai is needed which would greatly increase your filesize).

Reaper51 · Jul 18, 2010

Start with England i guess, and ill see how that turns out. I don't care about map size. I'm sorry but that my isn't really AI friendly.
BTW: ^Tutorial Complete!^

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 18, 2010

Start with England i guess, and ill see how that turns out. I don't care about map size. I'm sorry but that my isn't really AI friendly.
BTW: ^Tutorial Complete!^

, ok will do, thanks for the wonderfull tutorial (you should place this in the turorial section too).

supertoinkz · Jul 18, 2010

AI? Use AMAI for the sake of the map.

GhostThruster · Jul 19, 2010

To be honest, you don't need the size to be smaller. A reasonable map should be around 4-6mb. Yours is 3mb UNPROTECTED, and if you optimize all the models and icons, it will be like 1.8mb. I think you'll be fine

. If not, only use Vexorian's Optimizer, as sometimes when using Widgetizer as well, it does not reduce the filesize as much, but does reduce loading time by heaps.
Why not try using the trigger editor for AI?
Offtopic: Right now I got exactly half the amount of rep tleno has! See my previous post!

Tleno · Jul 19, 2010

Why everybody tryes to compare himself with me? Does it mean I'm famous already? If that's how it is to be famous, it's kinda booring...

Indeed, you have no need in decreasing the model/icon quality. Your map's current size is not so big compaing to similar maps. Oh, you could also make one more thing for ELA if that's how it's gonna be called: some units may have an ability to attack while moving. Like their tank may not have that passive machinegun ability, but instead be able to attacck while moving and have a bit more of speed than planed earlier. You can find this movement attack system in some maps, One of them is Ham Ham's World War 3 nuclear Sunrise... or whatever... well you've got the point.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 19, 2010

AI? Use AMAI for the sake of the map.

, isn't AMAI advanced melee ai? I though it couldn't handle custom races (with not old race units edited). Don't know for sure though.

@GhostThruster, I think I will do the icon trick by Reaper and than use Widgetzer, thanks for the feedback.

Oh, you could also make one more thing for ELA if that's how it's gonna be called: some units may have an ability to attack while moving. Like their tank may not have that passive machinegun ability, but instead be able to attacck while moving and have a bit more of speed than planed earlier. You can find this movement attack system in some maps, One of them is Ham Ham's World War 3 nuclear Sunrise... or whatever... well you've got the point.

, cool idea, I will see if I can get that to work.

Reaper51 · Jul 19, 2010

Are you gonna add a control point capture system?
I'm trying to figure it out right now.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 20, 2010

Are you gonna add a control point capture system?
I'm trying to figure it out right now.

, if you meant like Dawn of War, than no, if you mean neutral buildings to capture than maybe yes.

GhostThruster · Jul 20, 2010

'Tis the UTC, not ELA, init? I still think you shouldn't waste so much time saving 200kb.
Your map, your choice.

Tleno · Jul 20, 2010

Why everyone thinks only about DoW when they think about control points? CoH has those too and those are so much better...

GhostThruster · Jul 20, 2010

Why do you always start the sentence with an irrelevenat question? You're popular, and so is DoW. :]

Tleno · Jul 20, 2010

GhostThruster said:
Why do you always start the sentence with an irrelevenat question? You're popular, and so is DoW. :]

Well, that's not true, I also start from Hmmm...., Well,, and Oh,.

Sorry for off-topic guys.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 20, 2010

'Tis the UTC, not ELA, init? I still think you shouldn't waste so much time saving 200kb.
Your map, your choice.

, I must admit I actually haven't worked on it for a while, tommorow I will start again I think.

Tis the UTC, not ELA, init?

, ELA would be a fourth race, UTC is the first one (with the augs).

Why everyone thinks only about DoW when they think about control points? CoH has those too and those are so much better...

, quess I played DoW more and I like it more than CoH

Well, that's not true, I also start from Hmmm...., Well,, and Oh,.
Sorry for off-topic guys.

, don't mind it, any post is welcome (except critiscm than :0) since it bumps this thread up

.

supertoinkz · Jul 21, 2010

Yes, Advanced Melee Artificial Intelligence, a project lead by Strategy Master, AIAndy, and Zalamander.

Download the Developer Edition if you want to make AI for your races. (You could make personalities and different strategies too!)

GhostThruster · Jul 21, 2010

So, are you gonna update the map with my icons?

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 21, 2010

So, are you gonna update the map with my icons?

, yes, today I will fix the new Stealth Generator and probably upload the new version.

Yes, Advanced Melee Artificial Intelligence, a project lead by Strategy Master, AIAndy, and Zalamander.

Download the Developer Edition if you want to make AI for your races. (You could make personalities and different strategies too!)

, ok, I'll see if it works with custom-melee too.

@supertoinkz, AMAI developers edition is not working on my pc, it says it's missing a blizzard.j file.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 21, 2010

Changelist version 1.3: small but noticeable update which adds custom icons for Series 11 by GhostThruster, Stealth Generator tooltip fix, an improved Stealth Generator and some other fixes

sorry for double post btw

Reaper51 · Jul 21, 2010

You know, you could use the EDIT button at the right side of all your posts. : D

Anyways i have laid down the basic systems and UI for Modular Combat as well as all human buildings. the map's size is now 875kb which is a respectable size for 12 buildings and lots of blps.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 21, 2010

You know, you could use the EDIT button at the right side of all your posts. : D

, I know, I just forgot when I posted the update comment.

Anyways i have laid down the basic systems and UI for Modular Combat as well as all human buildings. the map's size is now 875kb which is a respectable size for 12 buildings and lots of blps.

, yeah it's good, but don't forget that custom models maybe big as well (especially some of General Frank which has portraits as a seperate file so you can't squish the model, atleast not without losing the portrait).

Reaper51 · Jul 21, 2010

Yep, trash portraits. They are a big waste of space.

Here's my projects info: http://worldcraft.hordestudio.com/social/forumdisplay.php?f=81

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 21, 2010

Here's my projects info: http://worldcraft.hordestudio.com/so...splay.php?f=81

, cool, good luck with it

GhostThruster · Jul 22, 2010

Um, I don't mean to be rude, Reaper51, but you shouldn't really talk about your projects in other people's thread. Spectre is tolerant and doesn't mind, but others might think you are thread hijacking.
On a different note, I will test your map, and message me when you need some icons for the Nomads and ZLsomething(forgot).

Tleno · Jul 22, 2010

Actually I think Reaper51 is giving the info just because of project similarities and they had some idea excange with Spectre.

[K40$]-Spectre · Jul 22, 2010

@GhostThruster, how could I resist against your icons ^^, if I finished the Nomad race I will give you a pm, thanks.

@tleno, yes I think that also, but probably also for feedback (but I don't mind that since Reaper helped me also).

GhostThruster · Jul 22, 2010

Well, it doesn't matter if I think if he is threadjacking or not, 'cause its Spectre's thread. But if he is doing that, then it is fine.