Moderating tools

[TheLordOfChaos201]

I was wondering, why hasn't anyone made a moderating tool for the hive mods?

We could make a programs that flags all posts with swear words or rule breaking content. creating a list the moderators can go through and resolve, instead of hunting for posts.

a model tool that tells you how man bones there are in a model, is the skin whole, are the bones attached, do they move?

a map tool that looks for common errors.

you know the hive has been Around for quite some time. I'm surprised nothing has been created

 

[IcemanBo]

Not sure where you get the ideas from, but do you think this is helpful for staff? Nobody is sitting and hunting posts with swear words, and in general I don't very believe anyone even needs it. This would only create needless work.

a map tool that looks for common errors.

A tool that checks a map? Sounds good, but maybe sounds only like theory. I don't think we or you have even a good approach here. Neither the planning, nor the implementation.

Go in the sections, read the resources and posts, and analyse how the review process works. We honestly don't need random ideas that maybe sound good on paper, but some that work realistically and practically cover existing issues. In the end what everyone wants and needs for sure is responsive members that are actively involved in the sections and directly help the people at place.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Not sure where you get the ideas from, but do you think this is helpful for staff? Nobody is sitting and hunting posts with swear words, and in general I don't very believe anyone even needs it. This would only create needless work.


A tool that checks a map? Sounds good, but maybe sounds only like theory. I don't think we or you have even a good approach here. Neither the planning, nor the implementation.

Go in the sections, read the resources and posts, and analyse how the review process works. We honestly don't need random ideas that maybe sound good on paper, but some that work realistically and practically cover existing issues. In the end what everyone wants and needs for sure is responsive members that are actively involved in the sections and directly help the people at place.

instead of complaining why don't you try and add some input into it yourself? I admit I might not know what is the best tool to make or, like your assumption about the maps, how to make it. but we will never get anywhere by pointing out all the problems.

in order to improve the hive and move forward, we need to be innovative and try whatever might work. give it a chance instead of calling it a failure before it can even begin

as a moderator of the hive what do you want?

 

[IcemanBo]

Yes, I try to give input. What I personaly wish the most is more activity and self regulation, to improve quality and feedback.
I personaly don't require 3rd party tools to manage most work I do here, and most important things Ralle does/needs to work on himself, anyways.

Yes, we need innovative ideas, too, but we also should focus not to lack man power like the active guys in the sections, as said. Do you even have ideas of how the sections work, or do you just want to create some tools?

If you want you can take time and write a nicer version of Contest Calculator, some code to ease JASS Class, or maybe to directly submit missions /solutions in a cooler way.
Make a hive quiz, which asks for certain maps and general rules, if finished it could be thought of to integrate such things for new members before uploading in section. I don't know -- look around what we can need and just then plan to do something.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Yes, I try to give input. What I personaly wish the most is more activity and self regulation, to improve quality and feedback.
I personaly don't require 3rd party tools to manage most work I do here, and most important things Ralle does/needs to work on himself, anyways.

Yes, we need innovative ideas, too, but we also should focus not to lack man power like the active guys in the sections, as said. Do you even have ideas of how the sections work, or do you just want to create some tools?

If you want you can take time and write a nicer version of Contest Calculator, some code to ease JASS Class, or maybe to directly submit missions /solutions in a cooler way.
Make a hive quiz, which asks for certain maps and general rules, if finished it could be thought of to integrate such things for new members before uploading in section. I don't know -- look around what we can need and just then plan to do something.

most of that can be done via the hive without programming

 

[GhostWolf]

Make it. I bet it's as easy as the other easy projects that you complain about.

A tool that checks if a model is LOGICALLY sane? sure, 5 minutes and done (for an actual practical and existing tool to check models, you can check the sanity tester, however that doesn't check anything logical, because code can't read minds).

A tool that checks maps for validity? 10 minutes, badamtush. So what if to this day huge parts of how maps work are not known, let alone even more huge parts of how the game works and uses the map data. Easy peasy.

And the rest are the same. A walk in the park.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Make it. I bet it's as easy as the other easy projects that you complain about.

A tool that checks if a model is LOGICALLY sane? sure, 5 minutes and done (for an actual practical and existing tool to check models, you can check the sanity tester, however that doesn't check anything logical, because code can't read minds).

A tool that checks maps for validity? 10 minutes, badamtush. So what if to this day huge parts of how maps work are not known, let alone even more huge parts of how the game works and uses the map data. Easy peasy.

And the rest are the same. A walk in the park.

the problem is I have actually created tools, people don't use them... and thats what I'm complaining about

also I'm currently not allowed to made a moderator tool since I haven't been given permission to data mine the hive

I've never ever looked into model tools but I do know scrip is written as plain text in warcraft. meaning making a moding tool for that is easy peezy

yet why haven't people made one yet? you should all be capable of making these things for your selves

oh and I do know you can check a model for detached bones and that that is a problem

 

[GhostWolf]

After all of these toxic threads, I still honestly can't tell if you're a troll, or a kid.

If there is an error you know of that isn't checked by the sanity tester, I invite you to report so in its thread.

Nothing else you wrote is worth commenting on...

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

After all of these toxic threads, I still honestly can't tell if you're a troll, or a kid.

If there is an error you know of that isn't checked by the sanity tester, I invite you to report so in its thread.

Nothing else you wrote is worth commenting on...

why manually load a map, model, thread. testing every problem model, trig and searching every comment... when instead you could run them all through a tool that cuts your time in half?

right now testing maps, moderating forums and whatever else, is taking up a lot of time that could better be spend elsewhere!

why do you insist that the staff should look over threads and maps manually hunting for errors, when you could just as easily have a program find the errors and make those flaws known.

we don't need the staff to lose their sanity trying to deal with the extraordinary long list of pending maps and resources, when instead we can create a program to check for errors and cut down the time required for each review.

it's not about replacing the staff, it's about making it easier for them

 

[GhostWolf]

Have you considered it takes time and knowledge (which takes more time) to create a program that does anything?

It's clear you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about, but I think I can be a sort-of authority on saying that at least some of the "easy" things you want are incredibly hard and time consuming, involving tons of reverse engineering, experimentation, and designing code.

Some of them are less complex, and yet someone needs to put the time into making them.

And some are just pointless.
You assume that moderators work super hard on specific things that you focus on for some reason, and yet a moderator told you that is not necessarily true, and other things might have higher precedence.

All in all, you open threads daily to complain about things that have no relevancy, or require enormous amounts of work to accomplish, some of which was already done, and being done on a daily basis by the people you so easily discredit.

And let me end with something more personal - I don't value words too much, I value actions. If instead of opening a thread every day you'd make even the simplest tool that somehow helps anyone, or contribute to someone else's tool or knowledge, I'd value your opinion a lot more. I think other people would too.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Have you considered it takes time and knowledge (which takes more time) to create a program that does anything?

It's clear you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about, but I think I can be a sort-of authority on saying that at least some of the "easy" things you want are incredibly hard and time consuming, involving tons of reverse engineering, experimentation, and designing code.

Some of them are less complex, and yet someone needs to put the time into making them.

And some are just pointless.
You assume that moderators work super hard on specific things that you focus on for some reason, and yet a moderator told you that is not necessarily true, and other things might have higher precedence.

All in all, you open threads daily to complain about things that have no relevancy, or require enormous amounts of work to accomplish, some of which was already done, and being done on a daily basis by the people you so easily discredit.

And let me end with something more personal - I don't value words too much, I value actions. If instead of opening a thread every day you'd make even the simplest tool that somehow helps anyone, or contribute to someone else's tool or knowledge, I'd value your opinion a lot more. I think other people would too.

you keep shutting me down with these vague replies. it is almost as if you are trying to provoke me into a response, and you know what! fine. you guys might suck at programming but I am more than capable. tell me what you want in a moderating tool, and granted that I think it's possible and not a waste of my time, I'll make it. however I'll encrypt that tool and add an expiration date to it because I'm not doing your work for you. especially not after all the fighting, you people seem to be resisting the idea with every step and I don't understand why. all I'm going to do is show you that it is possible, and that the only thing stopping you from creating such a tool for yourselves is arrogance.

now the only thing stopping me from making a tool is you, because you seem to know exactly how all my ideas are craps and your ideas are gold.

 

[GhostWolf]

Fine. Make a map validator.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Fine. Make a map validator.

what criteria do you look for when validating a map?

in point form

 

[GhostWolf]

a map tool that looks for common errors.

I have no clue what that means, but apparently you do, and it's easy, so do it.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

I have no clue what that means, but apparently you do, and it's easy, so do it.

when I make a map validating tool, you are going to complain that it doesn't match your criteria

so tell me what your criteria is

right now I'm just going to do what I'm already able to do

check number of doodles compared to map size

check for custom content

check for spelling errors

check for corruption

print out results

 

[GhostWolf]

How do you check for corruption?

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

How do you check for corruption?

the map prints out a log of corrupt/missing files

just ran a double check and have confirmed that I can check for and name all custom content

meaning every spell, every model, every unit....all of that can be detected and printed out

were any of those part of the so called, 'impossible' content you said people have been working on for years but haven't been able to figure out?

 

[GhostWolf]

I have claimed neither of these statements, but I also don't see any kind of code of yours, just words.

Are you detecting all imported files in a map without a listfile?

What does it even mean for a map to print out something...

 

[Kazeon]

what criteria do you look for when validating a map?

in point form

Map criteria:
- Have in-game instructions
- Leakless & bug-free codes/triggers
- Optimized import files (well-compressed music files, etc)
- No green/corrupted icons
- No illegal/suggestive contents (porn, etc.)
- Well-presented (have decent loading screen, have decent tooltips, etc)
- Not a copy of other maps, at least have something new/unique/original on its own
- Have some decent work on terrain (tile variations, ground height variations, etc)

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Map criteria:
- Have in-game instructions
- Leakless & bug-free codes/triggers
- Optimized import files (well-compressed music files, etc)
- No green/corrupted icons
- No illegal/suggestive contents (porn, etc.)
- Well-presented (have decent loading screen, have decent tooltips, etc)
- Not a copy of other maps, at least have something new/unique/original on its own
- Have some decent work on terrain (tile variations, ground height variations, etc)

thank you for the input... I won't be able to do it all, I believe ralle already has a way to check for leaks, but I plan on publishing the rest today

I can not check for in game instructions (not accurately anyway)

not checking for leaks and bugs since the script analysis of ralle's can do that(since it already exists it would be a waste of time to recreate it)

not sure what you mean by well compressed import files but I do remember some music files types make a map extremely large. it would be great if you could tell me which?

I'm not sure if I can check for corrupt images but I'll look into it^-^

I certainly can search for porn and illegal material... I'll add that

I won't check the loading screen but I can check for decent spelling

in order to tell it is not a copy I would need a data base of original works.... so I won't do that just yet

I can check the terrain for height and detain

 

[Kazeon]

You know it's gonna be huge amount of work right? At least to make everything you "promised" reliable. In case you failed to achieve that, wouldn't you consider that as such waste of time? You also better consider what you're gonna get into when working on this tool, for instance, things like illegal material detection is not an easy thing to do. Mr @GhostWolf here is trying to convince you that what you are doing here, at this point, looks like a mere dream. Just snap out of it! Start from something smaller, like, a tool to detect unused imported files in a map (sounds simple but it's a real challenge even for me). But if you think you are perfectly capable of creating your tool, just go on, stop listening to people and just consider us as pessimistic plebs. But we've warned you.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

You know it's gonna be huge amount of work right? At least to make everything you "promised" reliable. In case you failed to achieve that, wouldn't you consider that as such waste of time? You also better consider what you're gonna get into when working on this tool, for instance, things like illegal material detection is not an easy thing to do. Mr @GhostWolf here is trying to convince you that what you are doing here, at this point, looks like a mere dream. Just snap out of it! Start from something smaller, like, a tool to detect unused imported files in a map (sounds simple but it's a real challenge even for me). But if you think you are perfectly capable of creating your tool, just go on, stop listening to people and just consider us as pessimistic plebs. But we've warned you.

Pffft! what, oh lol

to detect which imported files weren't used all you do is check the list of imported files vs the list of files use inside war3map.imp

it really isn't hard^-^ but oh shoot I just gave away how I would have done it

and here I said I wouldn't do your homework for you

even if that is wrong it would still only be the matter of searching through the trigger and unit files which again can be done automatically by a computer instead of a person.

checking for porn and so on is again just a word search, assuming the person didn't just leaves 100 pictures of, 'your daddy' without expanding on what they were ir implemented them into the game

 

[GhostWolf]

to detect which imported files weren't used all you do is check the list of imported files vs the list of files use inside war3map.imp

Partially right. This doesn't handle files that are imported and not listed as such.

In addition, you cannot immediately know if they are used or not. Think a little about why.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Partially right. This doesn't handle files that are imported and not listed as such.

In addition, you cannot immediately know if they are used or not. Think a little about why.

sorry I was trying to edit my text in time

but just know it is going well^-^

edit:
just started and already I've added a means to calculate how many custom doodads, spells, units, items, buffs and upgrades are used

I think this will take me more than one day but since I'm just proving a point "that this is super easy" I'll post the results up tonight

 

[Kazeon]

Pffft! what, oh lol

to detect which imported files weren't used all you do is check the list of imported files vs the list of files use inside war3map.imp

Yeah. How about textures used by models but not directly in OE?

checking for porn and so on is again just a word search, assuming the person didn't just leaves 100 pictures of, 'your daddy' without expanding on what they were ir implemented them into the game

Word search? Such a weak implementation of illegal content detection, some assholes can just safely change the filename to whatever non-suspicious and peacefully display the content in game anyway.

'your daddy'

Are you referring to my real parent?

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Yeah. How about textures used by models but not directly in OE?


Word search? Such a weak implementation of illegal content detection, some assholes can just safely change the filename to whatever non-suspicious and peacefully display the content in game anyway.


Are you referring to my real parent?

the program won't replace the moderator. this is just to make the job easier for them, besides how long do you think a pornographic map will last on hive before being reported.

it is unlikely the perp will create pornographic content and not bother to give it some sort of description... unless the map wasn't intended to be played in which was I doubt they would bother to make a description

working on terrain analysis now...

my map print out said that I have

items:166
abilities:173
units : 57
doodads: 1
buffs: 19
upgrades:0

which is pretty accurate, I'm just disappointed that I can't detect altered items. I can only detect new custom made items

 

[Kazeon]

If you actually checked my list of map criteria, none of your feature will cover any of it. And apparently a map isn't just judged by statistical data. Things like number of doodads doesn't affect map rating even slightest bit, or even map approval. Probably the only useful feature of yours is the spelling checker, but again it's kind of insignificant aspect of a map. But then, it's your decision. Best of luck with everything.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

If you actually checked my list of map criteria, none of your feature will cover any of it. And apparently a map isn't just judged by statistical data. Things like number of doodads doesn't affect map rating even slightest bit, or even map approval. Probably the only useful feature of yours is the spelling checker, but again it's kind of insignificant aspect of a map. But then, it's your decision. Best of luck with everything.

percentage of flat land detected 30%

terrain done and that was part of your criteria

moving on to detecting imported content used compared to what has been imported

Done!

my map has 32 imported files of which 32 are used.

and that's concluded by checking trigs unit custom skin and model fields and checking the standard warcraft import file



what is next!

edit:

I thing I'm ending it for today. I don't know what else to add but tell me what you think so far

all custom features listed and counted
all spelling errors along with solutions
percentage of flat terrain calculated
imported files used compared to what has been imported

tell me what else qualifies a map? hopefully I get something I can use

ps this all took under 2 hours to make

ok I added a doodads check calculating that I have 276 doodads

so yeah I'm happy for today

 

[GhostWolf]

I have no idea how any of this validates anything or helps anyone, but I still see no code either.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

I have no idea how any of this validates anything or helps anyone, but I still see no code either.

I'll screen shot the results for you

I'm not doing your homework for you

edit

just realised I can use the number of doodads in combination with the size of map and units on it, to calculate the screen loading time

which means I have 4 of the 8 criteria for validating a map ^-^

 

[Kyrbi0]

So much to say... So little time.

@TheLordOfChaos201 , I echo GhostWolf's statement. Without a screenshot of some kind, you could very well just be making this all up, typing whatever you wish. Please work on that, & then we'll go from there.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

So much to say... So little time.

@TheLordOfChaos201 , I echo GhostWolf's statement. Without a screenshot of some kind, you could very well just be making this all up, typing whatever you wish. Please work on that, & then we'll go from there.

could you provide me with an unobscured/optimized map with model files. that way I can make an analysis of that map and do two things at once. determine if I can check if model file imports are used as well as provide screen shots of my results

wait a second? why do I have to prove any of what I say is true? I thought everything I was doing is unimportant and easy. if it isn't important why don't you just take my word for it... I mean since it doesn't make a difference anyway right?

new function added, calculated loading time of map

 

[Kyrbi0]

could you provide me with an unobscured/optimized map with model files. that way I can make an analysis of that map and do two things at once. determine if I can check if model file imports are used as well as provide screen shots of my results

wait a second? why do I have to prove any of what I say is true? I thought everything I was doing is unimportant and easy. if it isn't important why don't you just take my word for it... I mean since it doesn't make a difference anyway right?

new function added, calculated loading time of map

#1) No, I'm sorry; I have no such files not access to my computer. I trust you with whatever you've whipped up as a test file.

#2) You don't have to prove anything; except if you want us to believe you. Don't throw the words of others at me: I never said anything about "unimportant" or "easy". Please take my post/request in the spirit it was intended: with sincerity.

#3) Ok, neat. Was that something someone needed/mentioned?

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

@Kyrbi0
cool, sorry getting a little testy here but I'm also so excited!!!!

nah no one mentioned the loading Time. all that was said is that they want to look at the loading screen to see if it is attractive and informative. I guess the only advancement I can make with that is create a means to show the preview of any maps loading screen. that way moderators don't need to open the game to view it.

I'm going to look into making an import function that doesn't write over object data. that is my next task and something which as of yet hasn't been made but is so very important

map printout report right now looks as such

total objects: 2366
items: 166
abilities: 173
units: 57
doodads: 1
buffs: 19
upgrades: 0

flat land detected: 30%

number of doodles loaded with map: 297
number of units/buildings loaded with map: 197

imported files used: 32 of 32 files used

estimated in game loading time: 44.46 seconds

there are actually two errors with this data. like I'm not sure where the number 2366 comes from for total number of objects as the math doesn't add up.

then the loading time is off by 3 seconds but I guess that is ok

 

[GhostWolf]

I thought you are making a tool for people to use, but so far all I see is you claiming to support things no one cares about (as you've been told by your supposed target audience), and complete lack of giving any kind of screenshots or code, while yet again belittling everyone else in the community, and at the same time stalk my profile messages and try to complain about people not using your tools.

And you do this all for the community.

The irony of your existence in this virtual internet space is becoming so big it will swallow the entire universe.

And I still absolutely cannot tell if you're a troll or a kid, so if you're a troll, you're damn good.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

@GhostWolf

Sorry for any pains I might have caused you. I'm not here to fight or at least I never intended to. I admit I have been quite upset with the resistance I feel comes from the hive with any idea I or even other hive members give. it is quite frustrating but no excuse

we are all brothers and sisters of the hive and no matter what we should respect each other and try and contribute to every idea and also appreciate any positive feedback, for the betterment of the hive.

I still don't feel the need to share my code... screen shots would be rather pointless since it would convey the same conspicuous message... but please just bare with me and try and provide any help or feed back you can . or if you feel you can not trust me or have no faith in my intentions, then don't help me. I'm sure your time would be better spent elsewhere

edit

I didn't get much times today to program... but now that I am programming my programs self defense protocol is blocking me from continuing (long story). I'm now sorting that out.

I don't think I'll be adding an object importing tool as that seems super hard without writing over old data

thinking of adding a translation function.... but I might not

just added a swear word detection^-^

 

[chobibo]

Where is the actual tool?

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Where is the actual tool?

I'm not sure I want to load it anymore
Everyone keeps saying that it isn't worth it and I think I agree. It will take a few days to get it set for the user end so that it is easy for them to use, but that isn't the real issue here.

The real issue is me uploading it and no body using it. That would make it entirely pointless. I wanted to add an import function so that people can merge units and other object data without writing over the old data, but... what is the point really.

I would rather just let this whole thing go, and the remainder of what I've done just sit on my computer till I think it is worth while

 

[chobibo]

Why not let us try it out first instead of speculating on what our reactions will be. A demonstration would be nice and promote further development of the tool you are making.

 

[Kyrbi0]

^^^

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Sounds encouraging...

Why don't you try it since the tool is already up, this would just be an expansion on the tool but in the mean time try this

Warcraft Spelling Checker