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Melee Mapping contest #3 - Poll

Discussion in 'Poll Depository' started by Mr.Henci, Jan 14, 2019.

?

Cast your vote up to 5 entries: (READ THE RULES below before voting)

Poll closed Jan 29, 2019.
  1. Legion's Demise - by Knecht

    26.8%
  2. Northern Felwood - by mafe

    43.9%
  3. Nerubian Passage - by JaleVeliki

    36.6%
  4. Cold Butterfly - by Rockstar356

    29.3%
  5. Frostfloe Deep - by Ragnaros17

    26.8%
  6. Scar of Northrend - by Khaldaiel

    19.5%
  7. Burning Steppes - by fostaa

    22.0%
  8. Treacherous Waters - by Ascrelle

    17.1%
  9. Frozen Peak - by mmtt

    19.5%
  10. Arctic Dream - by Loner-Magixxar

    24.4%
  11. Underground Fortress (8) - by sentrywiz

    9.8%
  12. Golden Oases - by XanderD

    31.7%
  13. Taken City - by DuckDuckGoose

    12.2%
  14. Desert Mirage - by Restor

    9.8%
  15. Northmarsh Ruin v1.1 - by Arrr

    29.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    @Mr.Henci @Naze @WTii

    I know these ways to contact him.

    1) pm and or vm.

    2) a public message in his youtube channel

    3) Staff can get the email.

    Your concern is important since:

    upload_2019-1-20_17-46-6.png

    9 days to finish the poll.
     
  2. Knecht

    Knecht

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    That shouldn't be the timer for judges, I'd rather like an elaborate verdict from the judges rather than a quick look at the maps.
     
  3. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    Chill out guys, it's been only a week since the contest ended. Last time it took 1 month and it is possible, that it will take even more time now. No need to hurry things, we want clear and detailed reviews from judges, so that they can be sure about everything they've said and mappers can improve their maps.

    I'm in contact with Wtii and for now, he is still the 2nd judge. Just be patient, and if you feel like mapping, create some lovely melee map for us at Hive. - (I think it is too soon to discuss a new contest, lets wait for this one to finish, then we can talk. Again, if you feel like mapping, there is noone stoping you, no need to have contest every month.)
     
  4. XanderD

    XanderD

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    Not every month, but maybe every three to six months - currently I would lean toward more since we got another hype due to the announcement of Reforged. This could bring more new people into the community and I also think it would be nice to show an active community - both for playing and map making. Also I wanted to show my own motivation - maybe that motivates other, less active members to participate in the next contest.
    So I seriously think we could start discussing the next contest in February.
     
  5. Restor

    Restor

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    So the previous contests were both about 1v1 maps?

    So I think that the next contest should be 2v2 maps
     
  6. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

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    Yes plz.
     
  7. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    of course is not the timer of the judges,, it nerver was in others contest. It was only a mention of how much poll time is left.
     
  8. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @XanderD It's not like we are inactive community. Last contest begun in August and ended in late October. This contest begun on December 1st, there was like one month between them. I am happy so many melee mappers are showing up each time, don't get me wrong, 15 entries for 4v4 maps is great succes IMO, but what I mean was, that when you are hiped, you can create map and publish it without contest.

    I just don't want to over do it to a point, where people will go: meh, another one of those melee contest. Like when you see FIFA/Call of Duty game released every year. Maybe I'm alone though and if all of you feel, like endless loop of contests is a way to go, I have no problem to comply with that.

    And yes, since some of you have allready mentioned next contest category, there is serious lack of good 2v2 maps in the community, so our next contest will probably be 2v2 maps, but we will see about that later.
     
  9. XanderD

    XanderD

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    I never suggested anything along this line.


    Which, at least to me, sounds reasonable. With discussion about the kind of map (by which I mean, 1v1, 2v2... 12v12, n-player FFA...), the rules of the map (allow imports or not, custom triggers or not...), the search for judges (in this contest I think there were supposed to be three, but now there are "only" two) etc. I don't see it as unrealistic to open a discussion thread sometime in February - it doesn't have to be on the 1st, but perhaps @W3Sour and @WTii will be finished with their judgment by mid or late February anyway. I don't know how much time they have or will have in the next few weeks to put into this. After all, they probably have more of a social life than, say, me. And to start a discussion thread - and so far I've really only suggested to start this discussion next month.


    I never said anything against that. And I actually even did a little overhaul on an older map of mine ( 1: Citadel of the Burning Legion ). But I was also thinking about the community and I think that these contests help the community and they give Blizzard a more constructive and creative kind of feedback for what "we" want than what they usually get when they publish a new patch or something. Excuse me in advance for the following example, but I worked a lot with children, and sometimes it is a really successful way to get kids to set their mind on some task by being an example yourself. Like even simple things like drawing the simplest pictures helps children to concentrate, to relax, to coordinate what they see with what they do with their hands - so sometimes I actually could calm down a group of agitated children by just simply sitting down at a table and starting to draw something myself with the children's crayons. I am also active in local politics and I tried to be creative there as well. I once wrote a speech I held in the city council in rhymes. I once gifted a toy bridge to another political party in this city council to show off their unending effort to build another bridge over the local river in a humorous way. I once drew a diagram on a T-Shirt of mine with bleech and standing on the lectern undressed my sweatshirt to unveil this T-Shirt for all to see. And I got applause from almost the entire city council for my rhymes even though I'm a member of the opposition. This other party also liked the toy bridge and fully accepted my criticism even though I was in total disagreement to their point of view - they even thanked me for both this gift and my speech. And the diagram on the T-Shirt fully hit a nerve and even though our proposal for which I spoke with this was dismissed, a few months later the thing we proposed (a cheaper bus ticket) was introduced anyway (although not as cheap as we wanted it).
    What I meant to say is, that the works of creativity can often reach out far more and be more persistent than direct verbal messages. And I see maps for a video game as works of creativity (well... with some exceptions perhaps - but none of the maps of this contest for certain) with which we can communicate to the community - and to Blizzard. And while yes, that would also be true for maps created outside of map making contests, these contests just can get more attention.


    That would be my favourite as well because I can't stand to see Turtle Rock anymore (especially since it's also played in 1v1), but I'd also be fine with 3v3 or something else.



    P.S.: I should mention that English is not my native tongue and some misunderstandings may just be the result of this language barrier one way or another.
     
  10. sentrywiz

    sentrywiz

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    I get ya on this. I am one that thinks too that breaks between contests is what reignites the passion.

    Also comparing hive to AAA studio is bit too much. Hive isnt EA or ubisoft.

    If I were to make a map with lootboxes and then try get people to pay for them through hive and give them codes for ingame.

    Like you said, contest or not, make maps now out of passion for the game. You might refine the map you make now for the next contest.
     
  11. Restor

    Restor

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    many contests is not a bad thing at it own if it does not decline in quality which I believe is not this case. At least for now.
     
  12. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

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    This contest produced many great maps, so it was difficult to narrow it down to 5, but after detailed editor inspection and some casual playtesting, I believe this maps have the most potential:

    - Legion's Demise by Knecht
    - Northern Felwood by mafe
    - Frostfloe Deep by Ragnaros17
    - Arctic Dream by Longer-Magixxar
    - Northmarsh Ruin v1.1 by Arrr

    I've briefly reviewed each map based on judge guidelines, but I felt it was too repetitive and harsh, so if anyone wants feedback on any map, pm me! :)

    GL to all! Great contest!
     
  13. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    1. -wood is quite scarce in initial bases and especially on expansions.
    2. -terrain is pretty much flat.
    3. -the level 9 Wendigo camp seems quite powerful with two fliers and two casters.
    4. -Wand of the Wind (level 4) on a level 9 unit (Wendigo)? Also, those tomes should fall from it too to avoid the Blademaster taking them with hit and runt tactics in mid-late game.
    5. -towers can be built near Way Gates. Maybe use unbuildable tiles around.
    6. -some neutral camp units are too close to each other and they look weird (example: wolves and furbolgs guarding the player mines).
    7. -I feel that the items coming with the Rune of Rebirth for the dragon camp in the middle are too much.
    8. -ships first (early-mid game) then zeppelins (mid-late game) as you need the first to get to the latter. Interesting.
    9. -because there isn't any water in the middle of the snowland patches, the ships have to circumvent a lot of terrain to get to places. This is where the water Way Gates should have come in hand.
    10. -creative points: runes of rebirth (even for the only tenth level dragon in the middle), ships, Way Gates (for team aid; for ships although less useful as the distance between them is small), use of destructibles as barriers (rock chunks and ice walls); terrain.

    1. -the map is not entirely symmetrical. Some mines and neutral camp positions are conspicuously "improperly" placed.
    2. -the nearest neutral hostile camp is too near the base and might attack buildings.
    3. -there are spaces between trees and small units like workers and some first tier ones can get through or hide there.
    4. -too many tomes of experience it seems (found on mine guardians).
    5. -two Dragon Roosts might be too much. One is already creating a King of the Hill type of match.
    6. -I don't think you should be able to walk on the volcano since fighting is a nightmare on such elevated places as they occupy the screen and you can't see the units attacking from the "ramps"/mountain's sides unless you move or even roll the screen/camera thus not seeing what's happening on the peak anymore. Even for flying units it's a bad zone to engage.
    7. -neutral camps not partially surrounded by doodads/destructibles have a high chance of engaging scouting units.
    8. -not too much wood on expansions.
    9. -neutral passive units can be Charmed by the Dark Ranger. Here they can escape since the skeletons are surrounded by doodads and there are zeppelins to get them out from there. However, they can be used to keep vision of that place until they are killed. Also, the Death Knight can use Death Pact on them and the Lich Dark Ritual but only if the units are Charmed.
    10. -creative points: terrain.

    1. -too many items from the mine guards. Two tomes and two permanent/charged ones.
    2. -undead will have trouble against the dragon at the mine and humans won't be able to properly take the mine with militia if they don't use the archmage. Talking about less than 8 players.
    3. -two mines guarded by not such a strong camp.
    4. -too many tomes on the two mine guards. It's a Blademaster heaven, this map.
    5. -the players in the south are forced to get the mines together while the ones in the north each can take it alone.
    6. -the distances between players and their corresponding expansions are not the same.
    7. -in general, too many tomes and items. Not all camps though.
    8. -some mines are a bit too far from the tree line.
    9. -creative points: asymmetry of expansions both in 8 players and less, double mines; terrain/minimap shape.

    1. -the canopy tree positioning is weird as the trunks are too near each other and placed in an artificial manner.
    2. -single units are easy experience when the player has some units beside the hero. Blademasters can take care of them alone.
    3. -some mine guardians don't have the longest camp range (centaurs; 10k mines). Towers can be built near them and killed easier with the risk of losing experience.
    4. -some camps are too far from their guarding place (example: centaurs and wildkin/owlbear guarding mines).
    5. -in mid-late game the initial bases become vulnerable to attacks from more directions because of the forest around aren't too thick.
    6. -creative points: two hard to get fountains in the middle; terrain.

    1. -not enough build space in bases (main problem: ubuildable terrain outside of the tree semicircle for roads and whatnot). Not only that but space for units to properly move through or defend with farms and towers.
    2. -I don't think Wand of Illusions should drop so early (nearest green camp). Blademasters would be in love if they knew it and also used Mirror Image.
    3. -camps too near each other. Easy-fast experience.
    4. -I don't think the barricades are needed since the middle is already blocked.
    5. -problems with blockades is that ranged and artillery units even spells can be used on neutral camps behind the barriers to their disadvantage.
    6. -creative points: Way Gates (to help allies and get from side to side horizontally), rock chunks/barricades; terrain.

    1. -cluttered base but not for all players.
    2. -the map seems rather huge.
    3. -the creeps guarding the Marketplace should have the lowest camp range. Only neutral hostile units guarding mines should have the longest camping range.
    4. -wow, why is that Goblin Laboratory so toughly guarded?
    5. -the problem with mines having some thin doodad line behind them is that artillery units and some spells could kill the workers/mine building from behind that line of doodads/rocks.
    6. -50k goldmines should be better guarded.
    7. -the Way Gates might be a bit too much in your face (the destination too close to player bases, mostly expansions). Referring to the red and yellow-brown ones.
    8. -units should not be so in the road. The Faceless+scorpions have long camp range.
    9. -maybe you should add unbuildable tiles near the health fountains to avoid towers being built there since the fountains are surrounded by doodads.
    10. -creative points: Way Gates (mostly middle use), heavily guarded Fountains, natural terrain.

    1. -you should avoid using neutral passive buildings near mines. Not only do they cover the gold mine icon on the minimap but they might also be a problem during harvesting.
    2. -players could pretty much lock themselves in with towers but since build space isn't that much it's not really a problem.
    3. -Taverns are almost completely surrounded by doodads. That might be problematic when hiring or reviving heroes when there is a skirmish with many units that might block the ways out.
    4. -fountains should be heavily guarded.
    5. -problem with flying units early in the game (Rune of Rebirth) is that undead might not have a counter for them except for a ranged hero or a tower. However, since the mercenary camp sells air units, things might be more balanced.
    6. -fountains of health are too near the bases and too protected because they are behind the conflict zone.
    7. -creative points: symmetrical use of Dragon Roosts for teamplay, Watcher Runes near fountains; Runes of Rebirth for flying units; terrain.

    1. -unguarded fountain. I guess it's OK because it's in the middle?
    2. -sadly, the terrain is a bit monotonous.
    3. -most creeps have chaos damage but I guess teamplay is the key.
    4. -proximity with enemy bases.
    5. -creative points: green camps only in the middle for early player vs player engagement, double mines, Way Gates, fountain.

    1. -the corner mines (guarded by dragons) are somewhat vulnerable if undead take them.
    2. -Scourge Bone Chimes+Legion Doom Horn in the same place is a bit too much (above mentioned camps).
    3. -some camps might engage scouting units.
    4. -creative points: Runes of the Watcher near Goblin Laboratories in the middle; terrain.

    -creative points: terrain.

    1. -when all players are so near each other, it makes the map unplayable in less than 8 players unless you trigger their start on the opposite side depending whether they are allies or enemies.
    2. -an unguarded fountian of health basically in your base, ruins the fact of teams so close together.
    3. -you can buy mercenaries from behind.
    4. -Gnoll Warden in early game might be powerful due to Purge temporarily slowing. Then you also have the Golem and most importantly the Ogre Magi which is very powerful.
    5. -avoid using creeps with Plague. The spell does not affect undead therefore undead players are protected when fighting the murloc.
    6. -mine guardians seem not to have the longest camp range.
    7. -creative points: teams all together, Way Gates, Runes of Rebirth (controversial Murloc Plaguebearer, although low HP); terrain.

    1. -enemy in proximity, somewhat. Rush could be annoying.
    2. -there is a possibility of locking yourself in with towers since the ways out face the same direction and are ramps.
    3. -fountains are too near player bases and they aren't toughly guarded.
    4. -creative points: Dragon Roost (although not hard to get to); terrain.

    1. -totally flat terrain.
    2. -big one tile terrain parts are not nice to behold especially with no height variation.
    3. -neutral camps on paths might attack scouting units. I guess, one should learn the paths and use shift+move to set rally points on the minimap.
    4. -creative points: properly guarded fountain in the mid; oblique terrain layout.

    1. -the nearest green camps are a tad to close to the starting base.
    2. -the map wasn't saved properly (default melee/latest melee patch). Not all Tavern Heroes are available. Items in the shop are available from the start.
    3. -the mercenary Makrura Deepseer is quite powerful and might create melee imbalances especially along with the Mur'gul Snarecaster.
    4. -mine guardians don't have the longest camp range.
    5. -there's an issue with the green plants in the southwest near the Way Gate. They block pathing and you'd say you could walk through them. That's not all, they could potentially lead to blocking heroes by the enemy because the plants are placed in a semicircular manner and you can get in the concave part and have trouble getting out if at all. In the southeast, you cannot even reach the Way Gate because of the blocking plants, nor the neutral camp.
    6. -honestly I thought the Way Gates in the water were supposed to be for ships but they are for land units or air ones since the latter can pass over further. So, I guess, those little shallow water patches are for artillery and ranged units to be stationed there? However, artillery units will have some trouble hitting boats.
    7. -placing neutrals behind the Merchant will make it easy for heroes to buy items without engaging the guards.
    8. -some ramps are glitched. You can see water through them and they have a rectangular shape.
    9. -shipyards are unguarded. That could result in some annoying rush tactics.
    10. -most mines are not too well guarded.
    11. -creative points: Rune of the Watcher dropped by a red camp+small shallow water patches, shipyards; terrain.

    1. -you don't have to write any number in the map title since the game automatically detects the player number.
    2. -map seems quite big.
    3. -terrain is flat and pretty much empty.
    4. -players can block themselves in their bases; one way in up a ramp.
    5. -mine guards don't have the longest camp range.
    6. -to get out of the ramp complex you are forced to engage a certain neutral camp.
    7. -Cloak of Flames+Ring of the Archmagi +3 from a green camp!?
    8. -two Scrolls of Town Portal from the impossible to avoid camp before getting out of the base zone!?
    9. -guarded Tavern!?
    10. -scouting is problematic as there are lots and lots of neutral hostile camps here and there in the way.
    11. -an army of slow Golems on a path to somewhere!? Feels like Dungeons and Dragons, an RPG? Not only that, they get triggered by a nearby camp. Almost each of them drops an item.
    12. -100k mines!? Their guardians drop Health Stones like crazy.
    13. -sadly, this is more an attempt at altered melee.
    14. -creative points: architectural design.

    I like most maps but there can only be 5 votes per user.
     
  14. sentrywiz

    sentrywiz

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    1. That's probably just you.
    2. I turned scouting into a mandatory creep cleanup, alone or with allies.
    3. I'm glad someone got the feel of what I was aiming for. Also there's a reason for saturation of items and gold.
    Insane late-game. Can't wait for a replay, to see what kind of battles they had.
     
  15. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    The problem is, that it's possible and that means item drops are not balanced. "Just you" sounds like it's my problem and I should deal with it.
     
  16. sentrywiz

    sentrywiz

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    Sorry for phrasing it that way. I meant as in, your luck is yours.
    I might get the same items from the same camp as you did, but probably not.
     
  17. Restor

    Restor

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    @deepstrasz you didnt write a lot about Northern Felwood, why?
     
  18. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    it seems he did not find bugs, his review is a bug review + creativity.
     
  19. Keito

    Keito

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    Neither had time to either judge or make a map for this contest, but glad to see all the entries! I took a quick look at em all, n Northmarsh Ruin, deff gets my vote. Good luck to all contestants!
     
  20. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    Only few hours left untill the poll closes. If anybody forgot to cast theirs vote, now is the time. (Remeber, you can cast up to 5 entries ;) )
     
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