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It's funny that very little people submit low quality stuff to wc3c with little moderators to review but low quality stuffs always get submitted to to THW.

Maybe time to implement some of wc3c rules?
There are less than 600 active users on wc3c. On THW there are nearly 12000. See the difference. This difference is responsible for that.

Implementing some rules of wc3c is a good idea.
 
Newest map that are review right away are usually those crappy resources that violate rules. Paid attention to it.

Closing the upload would resulted into several thread been posted at site suggestion asking what happen.

And you don't know how tough it was to handle a massive amount of map (I know how hard it was and I am not joking about it).

Some map could took about 2 hours in reviewing to ensure it was 100% safe enough to be use. There is plenty of reason that delay the reviewing.

1. You forgot to mention the popular reources that get reviewed and approved the day they are uploaded.

2. Second of all, who cares? Post an announcement saying that the map section is under maintenence, just like it Pyritie (I believe. Or Rui) did when the mass of maps were deleted. If thread posting is a huge issue, then i would assume this map problem is epic. In other words, thred posting is the least of your worries.

3. Be that as it may, it's not my problem to solve. I'm not a moderator.

4. We know.


Hello? Where have you been? As I said the map section was flooded, this reason or another. Now I am unflooding it, 46 pages > 20, your map will get reviewed eventually.

Who complains to you? What are you talking about? You are the one complaining.

No we can't close the map section, as you see it is getting solved.

The problem existed before, not it is almost gone.
"Ohh we can't fix this because the maps section is flooded", "Your suggestion wouldnt work becuse.."

That's complaining. I'm simply making suggestions that are being constantly shut down, and then i'm being attacked abut it.
And the problem is far from gone. YOu may be reviewing many pages, but you forget pages of maps are being added each day.

There are less than 600 active users on wc3c. On THW there are nearly 12000. See the difference. This difference is responsible for that.

Implementing some rules of wc3c is a good idea.

Maybe it's time for a staff addition if the current staff can't handle the amount of users.
 
Level 31
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It's funny that very little people submit low quality stuff to wc3c with little moderators to review but low quality stuffs always get submitted to to THW.

Maybe time to implement some of wc3c rules?

Because if you upload poor quality work without polish it, you would get a cruel qft from the staff over there. I seen how many people suicide for doing so.

You forgot to mention the popular reources that get reviewed and approved the day they are uploaded.

It was approve earlier under a few circumstances such as

1) User have post a request review at resources moderation (We give priority if we saw such a thread, but it also depends).
2) It have several respected user review over it.
3) The map genre was easy to be review such as melee or cinematic map.

And the problem is far from gone. YOu may be reviewing many pages, but you forget pages of maps are being added each day.

We are showing a progress, look at how many pages has been reduce. As long as the amount of resources review is more than the amount of submission, we still decline the amount of pending sources.

Maybe it's time for a staff addition if the current staff can't handle the amount of users.

We cannot simply appoint a user to be a mod simply because they could give a decent review.
 
It was approve earlier under a few circumstances such as

1) User have post a request review at resources moderation (We give priority if we saw such a thread, but it also depends).
2) It have several respected user review over it.
3) The map genre was easy to be review such as melee or cinematic map.
First understand, when I say review, I mean moderate. "A persons map was reviewed before mine" = "a persons map was moderated before mine"
1. Should a person really get priority just because they asked? Isnt uploading a map simply a request to review?
2. So should it really be a priority map to review, if you already know it's a good map?
3. If this is the way you are doing things, you should expect a lot of complaints. Everyone should get an equal chance at getting their map reviewed. If you are doing it this way, i would suggest dividing your moderators by genre, so they can use the same criteria and deal with maps they will generally like.

We are showing a progress, look at how many pages has been reduce. As long as the amount of resources review is more than the amount of submission, we still decline the amount of pending sources.

That's good if it keeps up.

We cannot simply appoint a user to be a mod simply because they could give a decent review.

Not what i was suggesting. I suggest you do it the way th mods will see best. But a staff increase would be best, depending if what Zelda.Alex said was true.
 
Level 18
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"Ohh we can't fix this because the maps section is flooded", "Your suggestion wouldnt work becuse.."

That's complaining. I'm simply making suggestions that are being constantly shut down, and then i'm being attacked abut it.
And the problem is far from gone. YOu may be reviewing many pages, but you forget pages of maps are being added each day.

Huh? That's surely not complaining, I am just stating facts.

No one is being attacked, I'm just saying you are not making any point here.

Your last argument is invalid since I review double the maps that are uploaded.
 
Huh? That's surely not complaining, I am just stating facts.

No one is being attacked, I'm just saying you are not making any point here.

Your last argument is invalid since I review double the maps that are uploaded.
Ad Hominem

That argument is invalid because i say so.

You don't know half the stuff you are talking about. What's the point of me explaining if you're going to question the validity of my statement without even giving a good reason to do so.

If i haven't been making a point, what's the 100+ replies for?
 
Level 18
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Seriously now you are making no point at all. I won't be checking this thread anymore and I'm unsubscribing from it since it just makes me nervous, when people start talking nonsense and start being ignorant.

If anyone has any other important issues to deal with, regarding their maps, report to the Map Mod Forum or VM or PM me. Thanks and goodbye thread.

The 100+ replies are for the purpose to show you that you didn't make much point, let me show you:

no I don't think the moderators are getting anything done
False

Don't complain to me because you trust unreliable members to do your map reviews
Anyone can do reviews, and again no one is complaining, no point in this.

If you can't handle the work, don't be a modeerator.
Should I resign because you say I'm doing a poor job? No point in that either.

Close the uploads on the map section and review all the maps, then allow users to upload.
THW is about maps, we can't close them, even not on a short period, the section is getting smaller each day. No point in this.

You forgot to mention the popular reources that get reviewed and approved the day they are uploaded.
Cinematics and melee only, really fast, any point here? Nah.

And the problem is far from gone. YOu may be reviewing many pages, but you forget pages of maps are being added each day.
Can't you see that the section is getting smaller each day? Np point in this too...

I can go like this the entire day. Anyway I'm off this thread now.
 
Level 17
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Ok, here's the shizzle.

The map section is getting sorted out really well right now, but BH is going away this summer, and so we're going to have to promote someone else. This will probably be Septimus but don't get your hopes up ;P

We just need some input from Rui.
That's terrible, but I hope BH is enjoying whatever he happens to be doing in the summer. He was a valued map moderator and member of the community.
 
The 100+ replies are for the purpose to show you that you didn't make much point, let me show you:[/QOUTE]

False. am I just supposed to take your word for it because you say it?

Anyone can do reviews, and again no one is complaining, no point in this.
Maybe the sentence should have been; Don't use the unreliable map reviewerss as an excuse for the map overflow. easy problem to fix, have reliable map moderators.

Should I resign because you say I'm doing a poor job? No point in that either.
I'm saying, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kithen." Take it however you want it.

THW is about maps, we can't close them, even not on a short period, the section is getting smaller each day. No point in this.
You can close the uploads and review all the pending maps. I blieve that is what I actually suggested. People will come back. The worst thing it could do is delay a map from being uploaded, which could actually make the mapper spend more time on his/her worthless map

Cinematics and melee only, really fast, any point here? Nah.

We should all listen to you because you say so. Diablo III, ROTG, WoW, and every other project sponsored by hive. Like I said, you failed to mention those.

Can't you see that the section is getting smaller each day? Np point in this too...

How did it get in this shape to begin with. Guess it's not the mods fault. They weren't doing anything wrong. What's to say it wont get back in this shape.

I can go like this the entire day. Anyway I'm off this thread now.
No point in this post.
No point here.
What's your point, you'll only come back to check it once you see there's a new reply.
What's the point here?

There's no point because I say so.
 
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Maybe the sentence should have been; Don't use the unreliable map reviewerss as an excuse for the map overflow. easy problem to fix, have reliable map moderators.

What's the connection of map overflow with map reviewers. Just because we might have plenty of unreliable map reviewer, it doesn't mean the amount of map being upload to this site would decrease.

If a map review does not have any indepth information or being inaccurate, the map moderator would not going to use it as well.

I'm saying, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kithen." Take it however you want it.

Bounty is doing a good job soo far. Also, there isn't many qualify user. Even if they are capable to give review, does they have the dedication to do so?

You can close the uploads and review all the pending maps. I blieve that is what I actually suggested. People will come back. The worst thing it could do is delay a map from being uploaded, which could actually make the mapper spend more time on his/her worthless map

When they want to upload their map, they would always think it was ready and usually doesn't update it.

Infact, if such a measure was taken. Don't be suprise if the pages of pending map was fill into 3 pages at 1 go.

We should all listen to you because you say so. Diablo III, ROTG, WoW, and every other project sponsored by hive. Like I said, you failed to mention those.

They are sponsored because they have request it. We have The Hive Workshop Hosted Forums for temporary project.

Also, what is the connection between hosted project and reviewing map.

How did it get in this shape to begin with. Guess it's not the mods fault. They weren't doing anything wrong. What's to say it wont get back in this shape.

The main reason why it have 49 pages of pending map was because I was demoted during the time where the pending map was about 20 pages without anybody being appoint as mod for about 2-3 months.
 
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Maybe it's time for a staff addition if the current staff can't handle the amount of users.
Actually I had just pointed out that THW has 20 times users than wc3c.

The current staff can handle the number of users. 1000 pending maps reduced to 400. See?

Moreover what Wraithseeker had said was also incorrect. The map submission on wc3c is also large. It is just that wc3c has much strict map submission criteria than THW due to which they send much of the submitted maps to the graveyard. If you count the amount is titanic. I am not saying that all present there is maps but just that the amount of maps present there is also high. For seeing the actual situation you need to see ratio of users (THW : WC3c = 20 : 1).

Taking look at that if the map submission on wc3c is 1/20 of the map submission on THW the situation is exactly the same.

Just for your note Archangel_Tidusx. I was not drawing conclusions or anything I was just trying to tell in brief that situation is nearly same on both at present.
 
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4) The graveyard does not consist much of maps but instead resources like models and scripts.

4) I took another look at the map submission in wc3c, there is only like 8 maps?

2) The current staff can handle the amount of users is correct but rules aren't strict enough to stop low quality maps from coming in like bullets from a machine gun.

3) Rules, invent more rules to stop them.

Do you want to see junk in THW or more quality in THW?
 
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4) The graveyard does not consist much of maps but instead resources like models and scripts.

Because vexorian and rising_dusk would delete it if the quality was too horrible to be move to graveyard. If you view the submission rules, you would know about it.

4) I took another look at the map submission in wc3c, there is only like 8 maps?

Cause some of it had been move to map test.

3) Rules, invent more rules to stop them.

How many read the rules?
 
What's the connection of map overflow with map reviewers. Just because we might have plenty of unreliable map reviewer, it doesn't mean the amount of map being upload to this site would decrease.
You are saying the opposite of what I was saying. Seriously, pay attention to what is being said before posting. If you had more reliable reviewers, the number of pending maps would decrease. That's the connetion. Plain and simple.

If a map review does not have any indepth information or being inaccurate, the map moderator would not going to use it as well.
So why exactly are they map moderators? I don't follow


Bounty is doing a good job soo far. Also, there isn't many qualify user. Even if they are capable to give review, does they have the dedication to do so?
Bounty may be doing a good job with the mmap reviews, but it's more work than one person can possibly handle. Also, there are plenty of qualified users, you are just looking in the wrong place. Trust the people who actually take the time to conduct a useful review.

When they want to upload their map, they would always think it was ready and usually doesn't update it. In fact, if such a measure was taken. Don't be suprise if the pages of pending map was fill into 3 pages at 1 go.
I don't believe your statement is correct. I have uploaded maps and by the time it is finished uploading, I hae already realized something I have forgot. If the user can't upload his or her map, what else can they do with it? Make it better in the time they have extra. I wouldn't consider it a "measure" either.

Tell me something. What's better:
20 pages of pending maps; or
3 pages of pending maps?

Also, what is the connection between hosted project and reviewing map.
Here's another one of those "Pay attention to the other posts before posting"
I was saying that the moderation process IS NOT WHAT THE MODERATORS SAY IT IS. It is not "oldest to newest", "Easiest to hardest", or "largest to smallest".
Moderation is simple. 'We moderate what maps we want to, in the order we want to'. Don't try putting it off as any other organized process. It's not.

The main reason why it have 49 pages of pending map was because I was demoted during the time where the pending map was about 20 pages without anybody being appoint as mod for about 2-3 months.
So we should be blaming you? Way to take one for the teaam, but I don't think any one member was the cause. It was the lack of organization and effort by 'the hive team'


The one part of your last post caught my eye, and sort of applies to my statement above.
How many read the rules?
It's not a matter of who reads the rules, its a matter of having an organized community. No I'm not saying the community is unorganized, I'm saying rules serve to organize. How many mods -rep users for breaking the rules? That's a good enough motivator to read the rules. I don't even have to break the rues to get -rep

Actually I had just pointed out that THW has 20 times users than wc3c.

The current staff can handle the number of users. 1000 pending maps reduced to 400. See?

Moreover what Wraithseeker had said was also incorrect. The map submission on wc3c is also large. It is just that wc3c has much strict map submission criteria than THW due to which they send much of the submitted maps to the graveyard. If you count the amount is titanic. I am not saying that all present there is maps but just that the amount of maps present there is also high. For seeing the actual situation you need to see ratio of users (THW : WC3c = 20 : 1).

Taking look at that if the map submission on wc3c is 1/20 of the map submission on THW the situation is exactly the same.

Just for your note Archangel_Tidusx. I was not drawing conclusions or anything I was just trying to tell in brief that situation is nearly same on both at present.
What I gathered from this was..
The staff is large enough to handle the amount of users, but hive has 20 times more users than wc3c? So you are agreeing or disagreeing to the staff increase idea?
 
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Cause some of it had been move to map test.

Maybe? I surf wc3c everyday and I don't see much stuffs at map test.

Because vexorian and rising_dusk would delete it if the quality was too horrible to be move to graveyard. If you view the submission rules, you would know about it.

Well do the same? Appoint something like a few days around 2 to 3 to stop the user from submitting maps and after that, he can resubmit his map again but if it fails the rules big time, ban for 5-6 days and so on.

It's not a matter of who reads the rules, its a matter of having an organized community. No I'm not saying the community is unorganized, I'm saying rules serve to organize. How many mods -rep users for breaking the rules? That's a good enough motivator to read the rules. I don't even have to break the rues to get -rep

I don't think there's a need for that -rep unless it is really very horrible.


Well, you know you can add like an agreement to the rules and if the users forbid any of the rules, depending on whether it's serious or not, just delete the map straight way.
 
I don't think there's a need for that -rep unless it is really very horrible.
That doesn't mean that it doesnt happen. I got a -rep for "spam" when I made a single post. That read exactly.

"Cloudwolf, you are amazing."

But back on subject, most of what you are suggesting is pretty extreme. A ban for someone that re-uploads a bad map? come on. Also, there is a rules agreement. Everyone had to check the little box signifying that he/she read the rules. Most of us just check that to register, but eventually will read the rules(either through boredom or disciplinary action).
 
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Just because we have more reliable reviewer doesn't mean the amount of user that would submitted their work decline.

Well do the same? Appoint something like a few days around 2 to 3 to stop the user from submitting maps and after that, he can resubmit his map again but if it fails the rules big time, ban for 5-6 days and so on.

What makes you think we never do that? I have told Ralle several times to implement a system that allow mapper to submit only 1 map every 48 hours and it never been accepted till now.

QFT = Instant of wasting time suggesting and teaching the mod on how to reduce the amount of pending map, help them by reviewing the resources with accurate information.
 

Rui

Rui

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(...)
Maybe time to implement some of wc3c rules?
We already have one:

You may not submit maps which:

  • (...)
  • Are of an extremely poor quality [...]
  • (...)
Anyone can do reviews, and again no one is complaining, no point in this.
Maybe the sentence should have been; Don't use the unreliable map reviewerss as an excuse for the map overflow. easy problem to fix, have reliable map moderators.
We do not rely on the map mini-moderators to fix the moderation queue. They exist because they are potential users for map resource moderators, and are being tested.

[...]
3) Rules, invent more rules to stop them.
[...]
The reason we get flooded with low-quality maps is that people do not read the rules.

(...)
[...] Also, there are plenty of qualified users, you are just looking in the wrong place. Trust the people who actually take the time to conduct a useful review.
(...)
People who take the time to conduct a useful review don't always take the time to write enough reviews. That's why I can't trust them.

Just one last note: bounty's work doesn't have to please anyone but me.
 
Just because we have more reliable reviewer doesn't mean the amount of user that would submitted their work decline.
But.. the point is that more work would get done and there would be less of a load on the moderators.

To Rui:
If you can't rely on any of the mini-moderator's reviews, what's the point of having them in the frst place?
The map quality hs nothing to do with the rules, it's just that eeryone want's to show off their "awesoum IdeAz". (further described on the first page post.
If you wan't someone that makes good reviews to make more reviews, why not appoint them to a better, more official position. Then they probably wouldnt feel like they wasted so much time.

Just one last note: bounty's work doesn't have to please anyone but me.
That's cute, but it kinda has to please everyone if you want a community. Renegade moderators never satisfy anyone. Not that i'm accusing anyone of being one.
 
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And I return to this thread. Why you ask? I don't have anything better to do, and well what the heck, why not.

If you can't rely on any of the mini-moderator's reviews, what's the point of having them in the frst place?

EVERYONE can review maps. Everyone can vote the maps. There are no official mini-mods only in the social groups. The point is for them to get the grip of reviewing and over time to get their reviews more reliable, what is an often case.

If you wan't someone that makes good reviews to make more reviews, why not appoint them to a better, more official position. Then they probably wouldnt feel like they wasted so much time.

No, this has been discussed many times before and Ralle and the rest of the people here mostly agree that mini-mods are a no go.

but it kinda has to please everyone if you want a community

I try to do my job the best I can. If you see something bad at what I am doing, any criticism is welcome. I don't think anyone has complained on my moderating so far.

Renegade moderators never satisfy anyone. Not that i'm accusing anyone of being one.

You say you are not pointing at anyone. I am the only Map Moderator. Huh, who could it be you are pointing to? If you aren't pointing at anyone, then your "ranting" is useless since it isn't based on anything. If it is, please, links, anything and I will improve.
 
And I return to this thread. Why you ask? I don't have anything better to do, and well what the heck, why not.
Lol you know you never left. I bet you didn't even unsubscribe.


EVERYONE can review maps. Everyone can vote the maps. There are no official mini-mods only in the social groups. The point is for them to get the grip of reviewing and over time to get their reviews more reliable, what is an often case.
Even though that won't necessarily make them actual moderators? And who says the mods even have to take their review seriously. From the sound of it, the mod't still conduct further reveiw een after several mini mod reviews.


No, this has been discussed many times before and Ralle and the rest of the people here mostly agree that mini-mods are a no go.
so this brings me to my previous point.. hat's the point of them? (Lets just keep that one a rhetorical question)



I try to do my job the best I can. If you see something bad at what I am doing, any criticism is welcome. I don't think anyone has complained on my moderating so far.
No nee to respond to this, my only problem is the unneessry sarcasm lol



You say you are not pointing at anyone. I am the only Map Moderator. Huh, who could it be you are pointing to? If you aren't pointing at anyone, then your "ranting" is useless since it isn't based on anything. If it is, please, links, anything and I will improve.
Actually it's based on Rui's statement of moderators only having to answer to him. Check your facts before you do your Ad Hominem again. Also before you point out that he was referring to you, know I was referring to the statement and not the person mentioned in the statement
 
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Why not just do as I said?

Message said:
Well do the same? Appoint something like a few days around 2 to 3 to stop the user from submitting maps and after that, he can resubmit his map again but if it fails the rules big time, ban him from submitting maps again for 5-6 days and so on.


Message said:
Well, you know you can add like an agreement to the rules and if the users forbid any of the rules, depending on whether it's serious or not, just delete the map straight way and give the user -rep. It's like when you install a game and a terms of agreement come up and you have to agree to it first and if you mods remove the map, it's okay as he clicked I agree to the Terms and Agreement.
 
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Just one last note: bounty's work doesn't have to please anyone but me.
You will find yourself incorrect here Rui. There are many people who think he is doing a good Job.

If you can't rely on any of the mini-moderator's reviews, what's the point of having them in the frst place?
The map quality hs nothing to do with the rules, it's just that eeryone want's to show off their "awesoum IdeAz". (further described on the first page post.
If you wan't someone that makes good reviews to make more reviews, why not appoint them to a better, more official position. Then they probably wouldnt feel like they wasted so much time.
Even though that won't necessarily make them actual moderators? And who says the mods even have to take their review seriously. From the sound of it, the mod't still conduct further reveiw een after several mini mod reviews.
>>Mini-moderators are the reviewers are those who are potential map moderators. They are practising reviewing at present. As they don't have enough experience of map reviewing at present they are still mini-mods.
>>The map moderator will review the maps even after mini-mod review is that the mini-mod are unofficial & as I said are still gaining experience of reviewing.
>>Actually the present mini-mods (who are in mini-mod) social group do not feel their time wasted. Ask them if you want to.


so this brings me to my previous point.. hat's the point of them? (Lets just keep that one a rhetorical question)
>>The point of having them Un-officially is that then if a moderator resigns then the Admin can have a replacement.

No nee to respond to this, my only problem is the unneessry sarcasm lol
Actually he is serious. If you see any problem with his review then mention it to him or report that to Rui.
 
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Archangel, did you even read it first?

Seriously, Rui & Septimus replied to some of my questions but some of them are still unanswered.

READ said:
When a user presses the upload map, bring them to a screen of a Terms and Uses agreement and if they forbid any of the rules, depending on whether it's serious or not, give the necessary actions. It's like when you start default warcraft 3 and a terms of agreement come up and you have to agree to it first. If mods remove the map, give -rep and that some of the more serious rules are broken, I think it's okay as he had agreed to the Terms and Uses before uploading a map.
 
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When a user presses the upload map, bring them to a screen of a Terms and Uses agreement and if they forbid any of the rules, depending on whether it's serious or not, give the necessary actions. It's like when you start default warcraft 3 and a terms of agreement come up and you have to agree to it first. If mods remove the map, give -rep and that some of the more serious rules are broken, I think it's okay as he had agreed to the Terms and Uses before uploading a map.

You got to be joking.... take a look at the upload pages.
 

Rui

Rui

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(...)
To Rui:
If you can't rely on any of the mini-moderator's reviews, what's the point of having them in the frst place?
(...)
The answer to that question was already in my post: because they are potential map moderators. Like bounty said, anyone can write reviews. If these are good, I will, at a point, invite said reviewer to the Map Mini-Jury social group. They can accept, or decline.
bounty hunter2 had to work for some months and participate in a few testing sessions before he got his promotion. In this period, he proved to be an active worker. If he hadn't, I wouldn't have promoted him. Yes, we'd probably have maps from the feet to the neck, but that's my criteria. I just can't bear it when a moderator works for the first couple of weeks and then disappears.

(...)
If you wan't someone that makes good reviews to make more reviews, why not appoint them to a better, more official position. Then they probably wouldnt feel like they wasted so much time.
Sorry, I disagree. I am not putting anyone on a pedestal. We have the Member and Moderator positions here. If they want the latest, they'll have to climb the mountain by themselves.

That's cute, but it kinda has to please everyone if you want a community. Renegade moderators never satisfy anyone. Not that i'm accusing anyone of being one.
In answer to the strife everyone created around this, what I meant is that I'm sure people agree with me when a moderator does (or not) a good job. I believe I'm competent enough to analyze and draw conclusions of my moderators' work. But you are, of course, free to tell me the opposite, as long as it's justified.
 
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