Map Development: The Scourging of Azeroth

[apsycobear]

If you want to fix the "cliff" and make it seem like a cliff without having the red edge heres wat you do(note this requires you to stop using the actual cliff tool which in my opinion sucks unless its for a city):

Make the land without cliff, then where the cliff should be use the rock tileset, then either raise it for mountains or make it flat with a steep slope at the edge for a cliff. If you dont get what im saying tell me and ill send you a pic of what im talking about.

 

[Silverfish423]

I get what you are saying. I do something similar for the coasts. But I would rather not do that because I would like there to be certain parts that are impassable by boats/units landing, do u know what i mean?

 

[apsycobear]

Yes but then u have that ugly red streak running down the edge of ur terrain, it sticks out quite a bit and looks bad.

 

[Silverfish423]

Hmmmm
I have not payed too much attention to it, nor have other testers, although since you see it sticking out quite a bit, others may as well.
Maybe I can add rocks around cliffs such as that to make it seem more "menacing"? Thus resulting in the fact that ships cant land there? It would probably looked nicer that way as well

 

[apsycobear]

Actualy if u do the method I told you with using the rock tileset to mimic cliffs you can make it unlandable simply by using pathing blockers.

 

[Silverfish423]

Yeah, I see what you mean. Okay, well I will see what I can do
I will test it right now and some random spot on the map and see how it looks....one sec

EDIT:
Here is the old and new terrain comparison, using your suggestion. Simply by looking at the difference, I like your method

Cliff Method Old

Cliff Method New

 

[apsycobear]

Actualy that's not quite what I had in mind, but it does look nice. Wen I get back home I'll show you a pick of wat I mean.

 

[Silverfish423]

I don't have the rock tileset, so I cannot do that exactly

 

[apsycobear]

O i see, well since ima be terraining it eventualy mind telling me wich tilesets you have, will make it easier(i like the visualize wat ima do b4 i do it).

Btw if you want theres a WE(was it world editor unlimimited?) that will allow you to use as many tilesets as you like. IF YOU WANT: dl it, open the map in it, disable the limit for tilesets, pick as many tilesets as you believe you'll need, save, close. Then you can go back to using the normal editor but you'll have the advantage of having so many tiles to chose from.

Note: if you chose to do this make a 2nd copy of your map b4 hand INCASE somthing shud go wrong.

 

[L2love]

Do not use WorldEditorUnlimited because it can and will corrupt your map just use JassNewGenPack.

 

[apsycobear]

Does it remove tileset limit tho? I've got it(donno wat version) but the remove limits thing doesn't remove tileset limit.

 

[Marshmalo]

Do not use WorldEditorUnlimited because it can and will corrupt your map just use JassNewGenPack.

How does it corrupt your map? I've been using WE Unlimited for months now and havnt noticed any problems, tested my map on single player and it works fine?

Anyway after trying this map out I'm alittle disapointed, I don't know why anyone would release a half finished map, a better way would be to finish and fix everything your aware of then release a beta version so testers and help iron out all the small glitches. At this rate this map is going to be in alpha for a very long time, theres no point me giving it a review because it's so incomplete.

 

[Silverfish423]

@apsycobear: I was considering using WE unlimited. And sure, the tilesets I am using are: Outland Dirt, Outland Tile, Ashenvale Leaves, Ashenvale Grass, Underground Dirt (its the blue dirt, it actually might be northrend, i dont remember), Snow, Barrens Dirt, and Dark Desert
@L2Love: Do you have any proof that it corrupts maps? Because if so, I definitely wont use WE unlimited.
@Marshmalo: I haven't released the map for gameplay. I put the map as an attachment so the people who are helping me (with ideas, suggestions, etc), can get an actual visual representation of what they are dealing with. I never intended it to be a beta version, it is still alpha

 

[apsycobear]

Use jassnewgen, i found out its got a feature to let you use 16 tiles

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh dang! I will have to check that out haha
That will definitely improve the quality of the map

 

[apsycobear]

After you dl it go to grimoire and check the box for "remove limits"(this will remove most limits but not tileset). Then go to settings and find tileset, then pick the 16 you want.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oooh okay, I will try that today or tomorrow. Is there a way, once I start using it, that I can save the map to the normal WE? To make sure if it corrupts the file, I will have the normal map?

 

[apsycobear]

Well when i used the 2 in unison usualy i would have some doodads(namely walls) moved around, like if i saved on jass then i opend in regular. I recomend you only use jass and i dont think anyone has ever complained about corrupt files on jass. Also to save you simply open up jass world editor then open the map from there, itll save the file itself wich can be opend in either jass or regular. I recomend if you do use jass to stick with it, its more efficiant then regular world editor.

To answer your question tho yes, if you save the map under regular or jass you can re-open it under either one(if you want to keep map safe i suppose you cud just copy the file before each editing session).

 

[Silverfish423]

Oooh, okay, understood! I will start using this new WE today or tomorrow probably. I just would like to finish a few things before I use it.
And yeah, I am going to save a file under normal WE, Jass WE, and ill upload them here. That way they will be safe

Oh hey, also, do you wanna do some testing of SoA right now? I am on b-net

 

[apsycobear]

Sure, u on east or west? your username same as this one?

 

[Silverfish423]

I am working heavily on hero abilities and Masteries since that is affecting gameplay quite heavily. I'll let you guys know which races' heroes are done shortly.

 

[Deolrin]

I'm VERY interested in that map, and looking forward for it's release. Good luck!

 

[Silverfish423]

Okay guys, you have to check this out!! So I was working on the Dwarves Mastery concerning technology, and I decided to revisit an idea I have for a specific unit. Before, I couldn't find the right model. But just last night thanks to Deolrin, I found the perfect model! So I will post a cool description/breakdown of the unit. I am having so much fun making it, I just had to share it's progress with you guys!:

Dwarf Techno-Mage

Techno-Mage (Ground)

Stats:
Attack: 13-16 (Magic)
Range: 250 (Short)
Armor: 2 (Unarmored)
Health: 385
Mana: 115

Abilities:

Flamethrower: Using it's gun of many uses, dangerous flames are propelled through the air towards enemy units. A short ranged 'Breat of Fire' copy. Yet, the primary damage has been reduced and the DOT damage duration has been increased. Also, it can only affects ground units.

Teleport: Using a series of highly advanced magic and mechanical devices, the Techno-Mage is able to teleport a short distance to escape danger. This is simply a 'Blink' spell. Although it has been scaled for unit use.

Consume Magic: By using magical energies, the Techno-Mage disrupts buffs and using the excess magic energy to replenish it's own contraptions. Functions just like 'Consume Magic' except that no health is granted and the mana received has been reduced greatly.

Lift Off!: By utilizing it's jetpack, the Dwarf Techno-Mage is propelled high into the air, granting a whole new perspective on life.

Techno-Mage (Air)

Stats:
Attack: 19-25 (Normal)
Range: Melee
Armor: 2 (Light)
Health: 465
Mana: 115

Abilities:

Artificial Cloud: By using complicated contraptions, the Techno-Mage creates artificial clouds to disrupt enemy buildings from attacking. This functions the same way as the 'Cloud' ability.

Flare: Using it's gun, the Techno-Mage reveals a small area for his allies. This ability is just like the 'Flare' ability used by the Mortar Teams.

Arcane Volley: The Techno-Mage raises his multi-purpose gun to the sky and launches volleys of arcane bolts. This ability serves a similar function to 'Starfall.' However, it is much weaker and affects a much smaller area. Affects both air and land units

Upgrades

Upgrades:

Techno-Mage Adept Training: This is the first form of education that most Techno-Mages visit. They come out with a new sense of inventiveness and knowledge. Grants Dwarf Techno-Mages more mana, improved mana regeneration, more health, and the ability to use 'Teleport' and 'Flare'

Techno-Mage Master Training: Now the Techno-Mages are masters of their crafts; they understand how to create perfect fusions of arcane powers and mechanical creations. Grants more mana, improved mana regeneration, more health, and the ability to use 'Consume Magic' and 'Arcane Volley'

Night-Vision Goggles: "Technology grants a new horizon every day"...these are the words of countless Techno-Mages. Through this philosophy, inventions such as these allow the Techno-Mage to reach new heights! This allows the Techno-Mage to see as well at night as he does in the day.

Of course, things are subject to be changed. But this is my initial idea and I am well pleased with it!

 

[apsycobear]

Nice! The goggle tech shud also provide truesight.

 

[ImperialShadow]

great silver and how about unit for human Masteries:The Other Side of the Light?what new units?

 

[Silverfish423]

@apsycobear: That is true. I will make that addition!
@ImperialShadow: Okay! I will add some other units as well

Hey ImperialShadow and everyone, here is a preview of a unit from Red's Mastery 'The Other Side of the Light'!!:

Corrupted Priest

Stats:
Attack: 13-17 (Magic)
Range: 350 (Long)
Health: 365
Mana: 345

 

[Deolrin]

Cool, but doesn't it have any abilities?

 

[Silverfish423]

yeah it will, I just have not thought of any yet. I was thinking of making them perversions or unholy versions of the Holy Priest. Since this is meant to be the counterpart of the Holy Priest (Silver Hand unit)

I decided to add another, enjoy!!:
This guy comes from Red's Mastery: A New Dawn

Velen

Stats:
Agility: 15
Intelligence: 23
Strength: 17

Abilities:

Healing Wave: Calls forth a beam of holy light that bounces among allies, healing each unit. The amount healed lessens upon each bounce.

Retribution Aura: All nearby units gain this aura, which reflects a small percentage of melee damage upon attackers.

Holy Nova: Calling upon the Holy Light, bolts of holy energy erupt from Velen. They fly towards nearby enemy units and deal damage.

Rain of Redemption: Calls upon the heavens to pelt the enemy with a multiple of powerful holy energy bolts.

 

[ImperialShadow]

wow the priest been corruputed and become skeleton priest?

 

[Roflpotamus]

Wow, I love the idea and the work you've put in! If I may offer my two cents:

While this looks awesome, I feel that it is rather imbalanced. This position stems from your position regarding the factions.

For a fact, there would be three player factions in Lordaeron alone. You leaving the ability for three players to choose may result in some areas becoming completely desolate allowing the counter-player to thrive. An example of this would be three going Titans, Silithid, and Bronze Dragonflight, leaving Azeroth 100% empty.

Rather, I suggest that you make it so that all players can choose who they want to play as but limit the choices to two per region (Lordaeron, Azeroth, Southern Kalimdor, etc.)

P.S. If I can get on the tester train, my MSN is [email protected] I'd love to help something that looks this groovy!

EDIT: Also, I feel that the Silverhand Mastery should omit the lorelol Naaru and all that and rather go the path of the Scarlet Crusade. Either get rid of the Naaru bit, include that into the Argent mastery, or replace the LK mastery. The last mastery could even be replaced with a Fel mastery (a la Balnazaar corruption) seeing how if the Silver Hand allied the Scourge than it is a 2v1 in Lordaeron.

Moreover, the BE mastery for the Scourge is a pretty big lorelol, especially in how the BE are part of the Illidari. To rectify this, replace it with the San'layn which is the Scourge equivalent of the BE: http://www.wowwiki.com/San'layn

Short of the redundancy of the Forsaken masteries (mildly different units from the echoes and shadows ones it appears, not a large lore or etc. difference) I like all them very much.

 

[Deolrin]

Pretty sure the BE Scourge mastery is supposed to be San'layn.

 

[Silverfish423]

@Roflpotamus: Lich King's Mastery regarding the Blood Elves is supposed to be about the San'layn. I suppose it was unclear, so I edited the Mastery and included a few words to make it clear that it is the San'layn
How are there three player factions in Lordaeron? I am confused how you came to this conclusion.
I am going to keep the 'A New Dawn' mastery regarding the Naaru. I really like it because it transforms the Silver Hand into a very very 'Holy' based race even more. In addition, I have some cool aesthetic changes that go along with that Mastery which I enjoy.
And you're point about certain part of the maps being desolate I don't agree with either. Kalimdor would never barren, considering that there will be atleast 4 factions (Night Elves, Orcs, Tauren, and Titans [or] C'thun/Silithid [or] Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons). But basically, here is the basic breakdown (by the way, ingame, only the Scourge/Undead Nerubians are initially allied)
Eastern Kingdoms: 4 factions
Kalimdor: 4 factions
Northrend: 2 factions (allied)
Outland: 1 faction
Can Go Anywhere: 1 faction (Naga)
So it doesn't seem very barren to me. Also, every region not occupied with races will contain creeps, whereas a place not chosen by one of the optional races will be filled with additional units and towers to replicate that a player or race is there

Hopefully that cleared things up! and for sure! ill contact you when we test!

 

[apsycobear]

Replace one of velens spells with farsight since he's a prophet. Also try to refrain from too many custom models as they'll lag map. Example is unholy priest, prple tinted priest works just as well.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh, that is true. I will replace Retribution Aura with Farsight (ill give Retribution Aura to Tirion Fordring. fits better anyways). Well the unholy priest is also used for the Scourge's lich units, so I figured i'd just recycle it.

 

[apsycobear]

Well y not use a lich as the lich unit and that model for kel'thuzad, altho that crown is a lil ugly I won't lie.

 

[Roflpotamus]

@Roflpotamus: Lich King's Mastery regarding the Blood Elves is supposed to be about the San'layn. I suppose it was unclear, so I edited the Mastery and included a few words to make it clear that it is the San'layn
How are there three player factions in Lordaeron? I am confused how you came to this conclusion.
I am going to keep the 'A New Dawn' mastery regarding the Naaru. I really like it because it transforms the Silver Hand into a very very 'Holy' based race even more. In addition, I have some cool aesthetic changes that go along with that Mastery which I enjoy.
And you're point about certain part of the maps being desolate I don't agree with either. Kalimdor would never barren, considering that there will be atleast 4 factions (Night Elves, Orcs, Tauren, and Titans [or] C'thun/Silithid [or] Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons). But basically, here is the basic breakdown (by the way, ingame, only the Scourge/Undead Nerubians are initially allied)
Eastern Kingdoms: 4 factions
Kalimdor: 4 factions
Northrend: 2 factions (allied)
Outland: 1 faction
Can Go Anywhere: 1 faction (Naga)
So it doesn't seem very barren to me. Also, every region not occupied with races will contain creeps, whereas a place not chosen by one of the optional races will be filled with additional units and towers to replicate that a player or race is there

Hopefully that cleared things up! and for sure! ill contact you when we test!

As per Lordaeron, the Scourge, Forsaken, and Silver Hand are based off of it for a fact.

All of Kalimdor has the NE, Orcs, and Tauren for a fact.

Northrend has the Anub Scourge for a fact.

Outland has the Legion for a fact.

And go anywhere is Naga for a fact.

However, players can choose to go Titans, Nozdormu, and C'Thun, thereby leaving all of Azeroth (the continent where SW is) completely barren. Or they could go SW, IF, Guru (or some variation of that) and leave Southern Kalimdor completely empty!

As per the Holy Light bit, it seems redundant. The Argents are supposedly a highly-tuned Holy faction. To satisfy lore and players general love for them, shouldn't the Scarlets become a mastery instead? At least replacing the LK mastery seeing how that creates a 2v1 vs. the Forsaken.

Btw, the Tauren could have a mastery wherein the ally the Forsaken a la Grimtotem Tribe.

 

[apsycobear]

I like the scarlet idea but the grimtotem/forsaken idea makes no sense to me tbh.

 

[apsycobear]

In my opinion silverhand masteries shud be as follows:

1) become argent dawn
2) become scarlet crusade
3) become super silverhand(one wit velen and such)

allying scourge and obtaining Darion shud be thru events not masteries(the second shud only be possibleif argent dawn is chosen).

 

[Silverfish423]

Roflpotamus: i think you have misunderstood the optional races feature. Ill explain it in detail here:

So, there are 3 players that have 3 options. Respectively, these are the races they can choose:
Player 1: C'thun, Titans, or Nozdormu
Player 2: Stormwind, Gurubashi Empire or Dark Iron/Ragnaros
Player 3: Deathwing or Ironforge Dwarves

So, no piece of land will be left barren with this design. And the Forsaken can ally people, so it is not like it will be an automatic 2v1 if the Sivler Hand were to ally the Scourge
Also, Lordaeron only have Silver Hand & Forsaken. Scourge is not there. Scourge & Undead Nerubians are in Northrend, allied.

I will consider what you guys are talking about. I'll iron out the details with some of the other map designers. But I will for sure take this into consideration. I actually like the idea of the Scarlet Crusade (after seeing people ask for this several times, I gotta provide the customers, haha).
And actually the Grimtotem/Forsaken thing makes sense. The Grimtotem were supportive/were working with the Forsaken (as was implied in WoW)

 

[apsycobear]

Only to win over favor. To the forsaken everything is a means to an end, even their allaince to the horde.

 

[Silverfish423]

What do you mean by the first part? I get the second, but not the first

 

[apsycobear]

Grimtotem were only playing nice with forsaken to win over favor, like they tried with garrosh.

 

[Silverfish423]

true.....but we could still work that into a Mastery or event i think

 

[apsycobear]

Eh I suppose but it rlly wudntmake sense, perhaps giving the Tauren the orcs beast mastery and giving the orcs a mastery having to do with trolls(the Orc player controls them right?).

 

[Silverfish423]

Yes, the Orcs do control them. And yeah, that could be a good idea. Since the Trolls seem somewhat ignored in Thrall's Orcs. Okay, I will do that.
But I will add Rexxar as an event for the Orcs then.

 

[Roflpotamus]

Roflpotamus: i think you have misunderstood the optional races feature. Ill explain it in detail here:

So, there are 3 players that have 3 options. Respectively, these are the races they can choose:
Player 1: C'thun, Titans, or Nozdormu
Player 2: Stormwind, Gurubashi Empire or Dark Iron/Ragnaros
Player 3: Deathwing or Ironforge Dwarves

So, no piece of land will be left barren with this design. And the Forsaken can ally people, so it is not like it will be an automatic 2v1 if the Sivler Hand were to ally the Scourge
Also, Lordaeron only have Silver Hand & Forsaken. Scourge is not there. Scourge & Undead Nerubians are in Northrend, allied.

I will consider what you guys are talking about. I'll iron out the details with some of the other map designers. But I will for sure take this into consideration. I actually like the idea of the Scarlet Crusade (after seeing people ask for this several times, I gotta provide the customers, haha).
And actually the Grimtotem/Forsaken thing makes sense. The Grimtotem were supportive/were working with the Forsaken (as was implied in WoW)

If the Scourge and Nerubs are in Northrend allied, then wouldn't they invariably assault Lordaeron seeing how they can get a possible ally there plus it is the closest base? Short of Anub's possible betrayal, this faction is poised to own the scene.

Moreover, I like how you set up the factions, I plain didn't understand it seems. While this is snazzy, why not extend this scheme to all factions with a limit of two to zone then?

Lastly, which goes in line with the previous comment, a pretty large lore gap that is empty is that the Legion controls Outland. As of the end of WC 3, the Illidari reigned supreme there, having effectively destroyed the Legion's portals and kicking them out. The choice system being expanded in this regard would allow for the Legion units, etc. to be kept while allowing for the lore-accurate Illidari to become a possible faction as well (BE, Naga, Fel Orcs, and Draeni. Split them however you please between two factions methinks).


EDIT: Glad aboot the Scarlets and that you're in the know concerning Grimtotem-Forsaken ties. The ties aren't skin-deep, there were some pretty nasty plots involving toxins and whatnot going on between the factions. It's a pity that Blizz abandoned this angle, therefore reducing the Tauren to the mediocrity in both lore and concept of good two-shoes that they started as.

 

[Silverfish423]

Yes, I understand where you come from regarding the Scourge and Undead Nerubians being in a very good position. First off, I have worked on making Northrend full of valuable assets for the Lich King/Undead Nerubians, but also difficult to get. Guarded by creeps, towers, etc. So it is not like the place is easy to capture. As a matter of fact, it is the most difficult. As of now, some of the most powerful creeps are located in Northrend.
They could go to Lordaeron. But also remember, the Silver Hand & Forsaken are able to ally. It is not forbidden. So it is not like they are pitted to fight each other.
What do you mean by there should be a scheme to all factions with a limit of 2 two zone? And thanks for the compliment

And yeah, I understand the situation with the Illidari/Burning Legion. This is why I made it so that the BL has to fight for it. The BL is also in a very good position, seeing as they are the only faction that is by themselves with access to several regions.
Yet, in order to balance this, they start off with no capital. That puts an immediate dent in income generated. Secondly, they have to fight for their capital, which is guarded by the Illidari (Black Citadel). Also, creeps/neutral hostile factions litter Outland.

Hopefully that clears some things up?

 

[apsycobear]

O ya forgot, u shud add theramore, wierd not having it and wud give some event possibilities such as:

I based lvl requirement on fact 12 is max(shud extend to 15 as I was lvling pretty decently and it was just creeps)

1) lvl 10 varian gets the stormwind player jaina and theramore(seeing they must pick sixes ect... jaina has allied theramore to the alliance) yes theramore is already with the alliance but their position towards the horde is neutral, this event wud change that.

2) lvl 10 thrall gets orcs rexxar and stonetmaul keep(the horde having proven it's stregnth to the ogres of stonemaul, they have decided to join the horde under rexxars rule)

 

[Roflpotamus]

Yes, I understand where you come from regarding the Scourge and Undead Nerubians being in a very good position. First off, I have worked on making Northrend full of valuable assets for the Lich King/Undead Nerubians, but also difficult to get. Guarded by creeps, towers, etc. So it is not like the place is easy to capture. As a matter of fact, it is the most difficult. As of now, some of the most powerful creeps are located in Northrend.
They could go to Lordaeron. But also remember, the Silver Hand & Forsaken are able to ally. It is not forbidden. So it is not like they are pitted to fight each other.
What do you mean by there should be a scheme to all factions with a limit of 2 two zone? And thanks for the compliment

And yeah, I understand the situation with the Illidari/Burning Legion. This is why I made it so that the BL has to fight for it. The BL is also in a very good position, seeing as they are the only faction that is by themselves with access to several regions.
Yet, in order to balance this, they start off with no capital. That puts an immediate dent in income generated. Secondly, they have to fight for their capital, which is guarded by the Illidari (Black Citadel). Also, creeps/neutral hostile factions litter Outland.

Hopefully that clears some things up?

Ah, nevertheless, I have some comments.

Even if the Northrend creeps are very powerful, after they are creeped (or even before) the joint Scourge can simply wash through their opponents. In the meantime, the Forsaken and Silver Hand have likely fought each other and killed off a decent amount of each other's units (resources that disappear) whereas the Scourge will be in full strength and initially outnumber 2 to 1 whoever they choose to invade.

By options I mean like allow there to be 3 factions per zone with a limit of two selectable:

Northrend
Lordaeron
Azeroth
Outland
Northern Kalim
Southern Kalim

This means that out of the three factions in each zone, each player will be able to choose to play one of them. After two factions have been chosen in any one zone, the third faction is no longer available for selection.

Moreover, I feel that rather than having all players start out allied, they could start out unallied and have minor events wherein they either ally (Nerubians are either Undead or Free-willed) or unally (the Tauren are disgruntled with the war-obsessed culture of the Orcs and abandons the Horde).

Maybe allying can only be possible via events which create small changes. An example would be the Grimtotem-Forsaken alliance (the Forsaken lose some Lordaeron thing (Sylvanas) and the Tauren lose the Trolls). Another one would be Anub allying the Scourge (Nerubians lose Nerubian Queens while the Scourge loses something else). Basically, allying would be discouraged in how one would lose certain facets.

I doubt this will be implemented since it would be too much work, but with the composition of factions you've got here there's not much else I can come up with as of now. A penalty for allying would be good imo to discourage massing. Maybe the penalty should only apply if the allies start in the same zone?

The factions I would recommend would be:

Northrend: The Scourge, the Nerubians, the Titanic Watchers
Lordaeron: The Silver Hand, the Forsaken, the Amani Trolls (or the Wretched (Quel'Thalas is currently empty in the make-up of the game and should have a faction based in it))
North Kalim: The NE, the Satyrs, the Orcs
South kalim: The Tauren, Theramore, the Silithid
Azeroth: IF, SW, Black Dragons + Dark Irons (Rag + Deathwing as in Cata lore)
Outland: The Illidari (BE, Naga, Fel Orcs, and Draeni somehow split into two factions), the Legion


TLDR:
The world should be split into six zones of which there are three possible factions per zone and a maximum of two players in any given zone at any time. This will allow a million and a half of possible events, but that might be too much work as of now so this should be left blank until this game becomes popular and you want to include more. Discourage allying (massing) which is a problem with Diplo maps by taking away things from the parties that ally.

 

[Silverfish423]

@apsycobear: I am kindave of confused what you are saying about this......that at if both Varian and Thrall are lvl 10, then this would occur?
And yeah, but you cant go past lvl 5 without fighting enemy players. But I do need to go thru the units and fix their levels. Some levels are too high, which is why u may have been leveling quite nicely

@roflpotamus: oooh, yeah. I see what you mean. Yeah, once the game gets more popular, I will certainly revisit the factions and see if I can add more, change how the system is done, etc. I am not sure if I would want to do it that way (seeing as there are specific factions I want to be pre-set), but I appreciate your ideas and will take them into consideration.
Also, remember, the Forsaken and Silver Hand are able to ally. So it is not like it is definite they would have destroyed each other. However, also, with events and such, every faction is prompted to explore and conquer different regions. So the Scourge may not go to Lordaeron. It really depends on the player.