Map Development: The Scourging of Azeroth

[Silverfish423]

Well first off, they are not located in the same exact region. I have Ragnaros in Blackrock Mountain while Deathwing is in Grim Batol. So they are not in the same region.
Well the Titanic Watchers were corrupted over time. So rather then having the faction be named after them, it should be the Iron Empire/Nerubians (in which the Titanic Watchers could be featured as an event). And units/heroes wouldn't be left out. Yogg-Saron, an Iron hero, and a Nerubian hero, are all that would technically be required for the Iron Empire/Nerubians. So there is not much of a problem there.

Also, Theramore is an extension of Stormwind. And it is not the biggest human city in the world. It is large, but not nearly the biggest. I am thinking it could be featured as a really cool event for Stormwind.
And I would rather not include Nozdormu/Infinite Dragons as a BL event because it is all speculation and I see them being much cooler as an independant faction.

I'd rather not leave out Gilneas because I think the player base would enjoy to play them very much. They're are cool heroes, units, and nonetheless, who doesn't like a kick ass Worgen? And even though they have been closed off, does not mean they cannot fend for themselves.

I figured one player for Outland because there are lots of creeps out in Outland. Also, I am going to feature a portal in Netherstorm. So there are more than enough fights for the BL or Illidari (2) in Outland. And they will not automatically go to southern EK because there are 2 portals.

I understand the reasons why the Naga or Kvaldir would be ovepowered. That is why I will not take their design lightly and will be sure to work them as best as I can. I have some ideas already that should work well with keeping them not OP.

Well I said I would like atleast one more faction choice in northern Kali. That would result in a factional breakdown like this
Northern Kali (4), Southern Kali (4), Northern EK (4), Southern EK (5), Outland (3), Northrend (3), and Oceans (2).
And honestly, Northrend and Outland are both smaller than the EK and Kali. For this reason, there should be less faction choices or players (in the case of Outland). Yet, it still stands that 2 players will be featured in every zone, so the addition of more faction choices does not make anything imbalanced (especially considering the minimal variations)

All in all though, I want SoA to be unique. I do not want the exact same faction choices that are seen in DAoW or Azeroth Wars. That is why there will possibly by 24 faction choices! I want games to be unpredictable and new each time. That way even a veteran will have fun trying the same race 10 times in a row because a different gamestyle is presented everytime.
And I greatly appreciate your help, don't get me wrong. The reason we are discussing this is because I am taking your advice of having each player choose from various factions, as opposed to 9 pre-set factions

 

[apsycobear]

Make sure when u change the team divisions its set up as north ek, south ek, northrend, ect... so players know wat races they gna be chosing from.

And potamus the Khvaldir are a big deal, idk if you play WoW or not, but if u have and u did the quests in the underwater ocean place than ud know very well that they're a threat on par with the naga(pre-summoning of old god minions ofc)

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh definitely, I will go make that change right now, thanks for reminding me.

And yeah, they are a threat. From what they have said, they seem to pre-date the Sundering (which is obvious, considering that they are Vrykul which originate from the Titans)

 

[Deolrin]

Wouldn't it solve everything if the Argent Crusade mastery simply required you to have the Acherus under you control? Much like in Azeroth Wars, where you, for example, needed to have Aerie Peak in order to research some Wildhammer mastery with the dwarves.

Also, the Infinites are a secret organization. They wouldn't just mass an army of dragons and dragonspawns and just streamroll Azeroth to control it. They work in secret, manipulating time.
They really shouldn't be a faction, IMO. Go go go Theramore.

Basically a faction that can go anywhere, attack anywhere, and not suffer any penalties for their units is going to be op.

Not really. It's not like you're going to attack every single area. Most other races can 'attack and go everywhere' as well, simply by using boats. You just put a few Battleships or equivalent, get a few Transports and set off to Northrend or northern kalimdor or w\e.
Naga simply have it easier by being able to swim, instead of by using boats. I think the only reason they're OP in Azeroth Wars is because their units are so damn powerful compared to other units. Nagas basically required two players to ally against them specifically in order to be beaten.
Also, the eastern continent is renamed 'Eastern Kingdoms' in WoW, I don't see why you insist on calling it 'Azeroth'.

 

[apsycobear]

Eastern kingdoms is divided into the following regions:

quel'thalas
lordaeron
khaz modan
Azeroth
and I think stranglethorn vale as well

the souther portion is called Azeroth, along with the planet.

 

[Silverfish423]

Apsycobear is right. The very southern portion is called Azeroth. the going north, it is Khaz Modan, Lordaeron, and Quel'thalas.
Yeah i know, confusing, haha

Hmm....I see what you mean about the Infinite Dragons working in secret, as opposed to making armies.
What if I work their faction so that they seem very secretive and sinister? You know what I mean? Like have special functions for them and stuff

 

[Sky Green]

Well, about that Azeroth thing. There's the southern part of the Eastern Kingdom named Azeroth, and the Eastern Kingdom's are sometimes called Azeroth. The planet is called Azeroth too. But in WoW it's said Enter the world of Azeroth so it could mean a Universe also.

Or something like that

 

[Silverfish423]

It's confusing, haha. But either way, none of that is essential to SoA, haha xD

guys...bad news. something is wrong with my charging component. i think it was pushed inside my computer. so until i figure out how to fix it, i wont be able to work on SoA D:

 

[apsycobear]

somthing similar hapnd to mine not to long ago, k it wasnt similar mine just fried.

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh, I forgot to upgrade you guys. I fixed it 35 minutes ago!

And that sucks :/

Hey apsycobear, are you able to go on wc3 or no?

 

[apsycobear]

Aye, just not for that long.

 

[Silverfish423]

Hey guys, I was thinking of somethings for the Naga + Kvaldir to ensure that they are not OP.

For the Naga, I was thinking of having a debuff applied to any Naga unit when they are not by deep or shallow water. (i was thinking a range of 100 yards would be good). This debuff could slow hit point regeneration, decrease armor, decrease attack speed, something. It could be cool though and really show that their advantage is water (where they can easily move yet also function properly).
For the Kvaldir, I was thinking of a simple mechanic known as Fog. If Kvaldir are within the radius of the Fog, then they gain some buffs that make them normal units. (So for example, their health regeneration will be 0, their attack will be less, armor less, etc). Yet, if they are not by the Fog, then this buff is not applicable and they will be weaker and at a disadvantage to all units.
I was thinking buildings could apply this buff for a radius of 300 yards, while there will be a unit that applies this buff for 150 yards.

What do you guys think? These are just ideas, so critique them please!

 

[Deolrin]

I like both of those ideas. Really, that's all I have to say. The only problem is that it might make them too spam-unit, turtle-in-the-water races. As in they'll stay in the water for the whole game until they finally have amassed a huge army. That's for Naga at least. For Kvaldir, I assume they will be based on some kind of an island?

 

[ImperialShadow]

by the way,silver where u going put the risen?it that a mastery or event?

 

[Silverfish423]

@Deolrin: Nah, they wouldn't become spam-unit turtle-in-water because it would be inefficient. While every other race is expanding, getting gold, etc, Naga/Kvaldir wouldn't be getting much. The only income site that is in the water for them is their own capital. Also, if someone wanted to, they could get gold, get ships, and own Naga or Kvaldir waiting by the shoreline. In essence, it would be dumb for the Naga or Kvaldir to do that.

@ImperialShadow: I may include it as a race or as the Scarlet Crusade mastery. i am not sure yet


EDIT: I am going to give some previews of Gilneas & the Worgen!! I am having a lot of fun making them, and I hope you guys like their development as well!!

Worgen Unit Preview

Greymane Protectorate
Stats:
Attack: 30-32
Health: 1100
Armor: 5
Abilities:

Defend: Regular 'Footman' copy.

Bash: 15% chance to stun the enemy for 2 seconds

Worgen Form: The Gilnean Human unleashes his other side, transforming into the fearsome Bloodfang Ravager.

Bloodfang Ravager
Stats:
Attack: 26-30
Health: 1185
Armor: 4
Abilities:

Dark Flight: The Worgen utilizes it's dark beastly powers to run at an incredible pace. Increases movement speed by 75% for 10 seconds.

Viciousness: All Worgen have a 10% to do 1.5x damage.

Human Form: The Worgen reverts back to it's original form of a Greymane Protectorate.

 

[apsycobear]

Remember bout cutting down on models, also srry i didnt respond earlier, computer was on dling somthing but i was at school.

Involve risen as the "second chance" for silverhand player if scarlet crusade mastery is taken.

 

[harmjanz]

really good, but you need a lot of work for some parts of the terrain... some doodads are used in a horrible way

 

[Silverfish423]

@apsycobear: Yes, I am sifting through the models and figuring out what I can afford to take out. I think I have reduced the filesize of the map so far by 500kb. And yeah dude, no worries, haha. School is more important. And what do you mean having it be a ''second chance''?
@harmjanz: how exactly do you mean? could you give me an example? (like a picture)

 

[apsycobear]

Second chance, the player is defeated(his main bases killed), but to keep the game going the player is given a backup, the backup is however weaker in every aspect than the original(however it is different as well making it unique).

 

[Silverfish423]

Oooh, okay, gotcha. Hmmm
The only problem I see with this is that without a capital, a back up race is from the start very vulnerable
Although I suppose having allies in this regard would be useful. And I suppose that allows them to be weaker in every regard

Should every race have a ''backup'' or ''second chance''?

 

[ImperialShadow]

erm i think this should be backup.

 

[Silverfish423]

should or shouldnt?

 

[ImperialShadow]

should

 

[Silverfish423]

Oh okay. Just using 'erm' normally expresses dissaproval, so that didnt really make sense, haha
But its understood now

Well, so Risen will be a back up, but now the question stands: should every race have a backup?

 

[ImperialShadow]

i think not.only some race have the ''real'' backup.

 

[Silverfish423]

Hmm...okay. Yeah, it probably should be a special thing for only a few races

 

[WillofKhrone]

I personaly think it'd be okay if you just reused some models and icons to make a weaker version of some races as they back up.

ex : Worgen are defeated. You gain Shadowfang Remnants.

 

[Silverfish423]

The only thing I have a problem with back ups is because there is no definitely defeat. For example, in Azeroth Wars or DAoW, you have a main building and when it is destroyed, you are basically done.
However, in this game, your capital is caputrable. Someone can take if from you, but then you are able to take it back. So I am not sure what conditions should be used to determine a ''defeat'' which would result in a back-up or 2nd chance race

 

[ImperialShadow]

why not after the main building is destroyed the backup as the main building.then the defeat condition is after u destroy the backup building

 

[Silverfish423]

Well that is the thing. No main building is ever destroyed. They are only transferred to another player's control

 

[L2love]

I think only mini bases should be able to be captured for strategic purposes if you can retake your capital then it's a endless game of war.

 

[Silverfish423]

I see what you mean, but it probably wouldn't be an endless pointless game of war. Because in order to capture someone's capital, they have to go through your base, which shuoldn't be easy. Which means that most likely, the person would be nearly defeated by the time his or her capital is captured.
Although it is meant to replicate stuff that can actually occur. Enemies occupy territories, it doesn't mean you can't get it back. Also, it is meant to deter base targeting, seeing as there would be no great purpose to it

 

[Silverfish423]

Hey guys. I recognize the value of having good terrain. Yet, it can be difficult for the ''artist'' to recognize his or her flaws as well as critics would.
As a result, I ask that you guys choose a region from the Azeroth/Outland map (ie, Western Plaguelands, Grizzly Hills, Zangarmarsh, Tanaris Desert, etc) and I will take pictures of the specific region from several angles, post it on here, and receive all of your criticism. From there, I will make changes so the terrain is even better.
Yet, there are several factors which I ask of you to consider when judging the regions:
1. Playability - The region has to be playable. Buildings need to be able to be built, units need to be able to move, etc. As a note of information, all buildings pathing sizes take up the same space as a farm would
2. WOW Factor - How would a new player react to the terrain? Would a veteran appreciate the terrain as much as he did back when he or she first saw it?
3. Realistic - How well does the region mimic that of it's regular counterpart?

Thanks!

 

[Deolrin]

I see what you mean, but it probably wouldn't be an endless pointless game of war. Because in order to capture someone's capital, they have to go through your base, which shuoldn't be easy. Which means that most likely, the person would be nearly defeated by the time his or her capital is captured.

Player A captures Player B's main base and everything on the way. Player B has 3 footmen and a peasant remaining. Player B takes his footmen and starts taking over random bases(that are unguarded by creeps) and Player A is forced to follow his trail. It's endless until the footmen hit a creep or an enemy camp\base. If Player A has allies nearby, it's even worse.

 

[Silverfish423]

Well sure, what is wrong with that? And the likelihood that 3 footmen would capture a base without the person noticing or capturing/killing them is extremely unlikely. In order for player B to remain alive, he/she would have to go to a fellow ally OR stake out a base in some unoccupied territory and attempt to regain power somehow

 

[Silverfish423]

Northrend is being heavily revamped. I'll give you guys a before and after picture

EDIT: The before and after pictures are below! I am still working on Borean Tundra and some the minor details of the other areas, but this is basically how they will look!
The first is the new. The second is the old picture

 

[apsycobear]

Northrend needs more curviture at the top, it shudnt be hugging the top of the map. Shud make it so that a boat can go almost completly around before being blocked by storm peaks. Also push storm peaks and icecrown slightly further north, only enof to stand out a little more.

Overall tho i like new northrend much more then old.

 

[Silverfish423]

Well, I cannot push Northrend any more south because then it would be too close to Northern Eastern Kingdoms. This will probably have to be addressed in a later version.
And what do you mean by moving Icecrown/Storm Peaks farther north?

 

[apsycobear]

Well if u look at northrend rite now it has like a flat top, if u pushed the continent a lil south and stormpeaks and icecrown a lil north u cud give it that small curve it should have at the top.

 

[Orcnet]

hey I was checking out your map a while a go and I didn't realize that I was using deep freeze and I forgot to save a map sample, sorry can I have another sample of your map? or should I wait for the next updates? happy map-making bro

 

[Silverfish423]

@apsycobear: Ooh, yeah, I got you. Yeah, at this point, I don't think it would be a good idea because it would end up being too close to North EK and North Kalimdor
@Orcnet: Yes, you may have another sample of my map, but wait until the next update I plan on updating it today

 

[Orcnet]

sure good luck with your map making )

 

[Erader]

Weren't you planing on making an AI for this map,what's being done on that part??

 

[Silverfish423]

So right now, I am trying to get all of the races completed. After that, then Masteries, Hero abilities, etc, will be worked on. So completion of the races/factions is being worked on right now.

EDIT: At this very moment, I am specifically working on Gilneas and Kvaldir. The Kvaldir have some interesting mechanics it is a very unique/fun race. Gilneas has an awesome event at the very start

 

[WillofKhrone]

Hey, Silver. If your on East right now, want me to test this with you?

 

[Silverfish423]

Sure! Let me get on right now

 

[Silverfish423]

Having some world editor issues...I will keep you guys posted on them

EDIT: Okay, it is saving properly now

 

[Silverfish423]

Drakkari, Gilneas, and Kvaldir are at about 70-80% completion

 

[WillofKhrone]

Alright.

I'ma log on WC3 as Cheshire.

Talk to me if you want me to help you test.

 

[ImperialShadow]

bump eh....silver so long no open...