Jungle Trolls Reborn

[chessboxing]

Few notes on 5.6 test 12

Hello,

Critical errors near totem:
I had several similar critical errors when playing test game:
I set 1 computer player in enemy team and after 10 minutes it auto builds his totem (without guardian). I had the map revealed with cheat code and noticed that when a nearby beast attacked his totem it resulted in immediate error. Then i repeated this step going near his totem next game and after totem spawn i tried crafting item close to his totem: once again error. 3rd game i went close to totem and tried to cut tree: once again error. I guess there is some triggers related to the totem (probably autobuilded totem) that cause the errors. Maybe it tries to give command to guardian but it does not exist.
Summary: all actions near the enemy totem of Computer player result in error. This probably dont emerge in multiplayer when there are 2 tribes but if someone plays a singleplayer game is very likely to receive those errors. Actually if i hadnt used that reveal map cheat i wouldnt guess this is the cause of at least some errors.

Some other things:
- cooking ability lvl3 - its like 50% working and it says 100%. (actually it shouldn't be 100%. Probably a little less as meals can be combined for faster food increase)

- antidote - if there are several instances of poison as well as a disease the antidote doesnt remove all of them. It removes only 1 and the others remain.

- golem uses 1 stone to create instead of 5. It can be affected with malaria (comodo) also with this type of armor it is overpowering almost all jungle beasts (with 2 golems you can fight with 4 5 bears or aligators).
This mechanical golem leads to the idea of its raised counterpart: a flesh golem by shaman ... i guess they should require some mana stone / crystals.

- petrified wood - no longer appears. I noticed that lightning does strike only units. In several games no petrified wood was available in all map.

- raised antelope - dmg is 20 - 50 (probably too high); raised stag is 20 -40
also i guess increasing the revive cost would be good (at least for antelope/stag / bird) as shaman can have alot of animals very fast.

- small animals and vultures - still they tend to return to you after you hit them with dagger / throwing weapon / arrow / stone / stick . It makes the game a bit easier though.

- energizer balm - gets cancelled on hit and tooltip says "combat consumable" (healing balm works correctly)

- when playing hunter i noticed that the most parts of the map are plain grass so i thought some more of those grass/bush texture doodads can make hunter tents / traps harder to detect.

- music - adding an option to set the music theme as in DOTA would be good: -human1; -orc2 etc..

- regarding the totem mana at game start players may be given options:
1 to save their amount of mana in totem for heal / revive / weather effects and later build guardian (OR)
2 use the mana to spawn a guardian beast at start - offensive game start (say they can use the guardian to help them setup the base in some specific lotation with bears / aligators / spiders etc)

- froll hut - it can be changed to be a neutral structure where players can make harpoons / torch / totem of horror ... instead of destructable for a mana stone (frolls got their harpoons from there and guard the hut). Also some of the (poisonous) frogs can have a chance to become a froll like elder beast.

-ambient sounds - i noticed some animal and player sounds (some classes play a sound when crafting i guess, also boar enrage) can be heard only when ambient sounds are off (from Options/Sound menu) or player is using -cam mode. Also i think adding some animal specific enrage sounds (like bear roar, tiger roar) would be iteresting as well as a boss specific sound on spawn to warn players.

 

[Viei]

Here are some impressions from 5.6.12:

[*] It's now possible to settle near any dangerous animal den - drop totem pole, spirit beast pops, enjoy free meat/hide.

[*] Spirit beast is a free miner. Crabs begone!

[*] Now that totem starts with full mana "Winter is coming" instantly. Twice.

[*] Removing carnivirous plant is huge success. Indeed, idea of troll being swallowed by a plant is appealing, but that plants are just too random.

[*] Places where thorny vines used to grow now look _odd_.

[*] Seems like stability improveda bit since 5.5.final.

[*] Spirit hauling (rightclicking non-meat/bones items to move them closer to you while dead) is painful.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Thank you, guys!
I really appreciate your help. I've fixed some of the reported bugs and done some of the suggested changes. I'd like to do more, but it cost me far too much time and energy. Sorry I won't answer point by point.
Generally - I've reworked and simplified the survival system (in matters of gameplay and technically by vonverting more triggers to JASS). I've fixed any bugs I encountered and done some improvements.
It was a long job, so there may be some new bugs... Please report them and they will be fixed.
I look forward on your comments how the new Resting system works and how does it change the feeling of the game.
https://sites.google.com/site/jungletrolls/changelog

:]

 

[chessboxing]

Test game 5.6 13 and 14 // notes

Hi,


just tested 5.6 13 and 14 and still the errors I mentioned in the previous post appear. Whenever a beast or a player goes near the totem of computer opponent: errors occur. (say a bear spawns near the start location. It kills the computer player and the moment it attacks his totem game crashes). When a player reaches within ~ 800 - 1000 range of the computer totem: crash. In one of the tests I made week ago i noticed the totem used a spell like a coil (i guess it is banish or something left in the triggers from previous versions) and then error.
The easiest way to test (when there are no players for multyplayer game) is to set 1 computer in the other tribe and test game. You just wait 10 minutes for computer player to random spawn and his totem is autobuilded without guardian. Also he spawns most times with food 0 while players food is reset to 200 when computer spawns. So if you send a pet there or go near totem 100% error occurs.
So i guess finding and fixing the reason for those errors will remove most future critical errors at least for single player game. Actually i saw that if the animals that spawn near the enemy start location dont attack the totem no critical errors folow.

Skulls
Warrior players usually prefer these type of weapons and armor. So in early game they often use something like exploit: Suicide / resurrect or kill team members for skull. Although the 1000 energy cost prevents this i guess more elder beasts would help this. So i think elder beasts should have a chance to spawn at start (equal chance) as lvl 1, 2, 3 animals. So chance for animal to spawn will be: lvl 1 , 2, 3, 4. (also they can provide some auras if near to other animals).

Thunder clubs/ fiery axe / throwing weapons
My oppinion dmg on thunder clubs / fiery axe is too high : 125 / ~100 and the cooldown is not very long. Usually a player has say a thunder club; throwing axes/harpoons; and then (spellbooks / bow / gun). So you see this makes more than instant 200 in a second. I guess Thunderclub/fiery axe dmg should be closer to the actual dmg of lightning/fireball; // Also the throwing weapon cooldown may be changed to be triggered by either primary or secondary weapon so u cant use all 3 attacks instantly
(ex. normal club;bow;harpoon + normal hit).
~40 ~40 ~40 all in 1 second ;
u see with thunder club it becomes 125 + 40 +40 + normal hit. This means even in late game this can kill a player almost in a second. And usually there are at least 2 3 players per team. So in most lategame attacks you get alot of instant kills and have to deal with reviving.
Actually to stop this you need a lined tortoise armor and a nice shield + several heal potions or so in order not to die on the next such attack...
This is no complain game is already balanced but still 125 is probably too high for a melee weapon especially while the inventor has probably some sniper gun (180 critical) + some grenades/rockets by that time.

Resting
I noticed that auto resting prevents autoattack (especially on computer opponents or if players are idle) so a beast may attack a player and autoresting prevents him from auto retaliate i guess this is normal and you have to turn off autocast for resting periodically.
Inventor weapons / granades dont need any mana but not sure if this should be changed.

Also petrified wood didnt appear / birds still return to player, so i guess you didnt have time to check this (its not urgent )
If I have any ideas regarding the AI of birds / small animals escape mechanics (not to come back to players when attacked) I will let you know.

Idea for a fishing hut:
this small murloc hut model which can be built on water could be used as a fishing facility (trolls dont get wet / can store items there / rest better while fishing). So in addition to tents and troll hut this fishing hut could also be built from the tannery/workshop.

All the best

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Yes, I didn't work on the totem issue, it is in JASS and... really complicated. But I will.

I know about the lightnings, same problem.

About the weapons: I plan to rework them, which is another hard update. Needs time.

The fishing hut... I saw it before, it is nice idea, but it has low priority: the before mentioned and some other issues are much more important for the stability and overall gameplay.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

As I promised: lightnings and neutral totem bugs fixed.

Weapons will be reworked... some days/weeks later.

Please tell me if last test 16 is stable.
https://sites.google.com/site/jungletrolls/changelog

About some other bugs reported:
- Cooking level 3 - it looks really okay. Maybe you didn't really achieve level 3 for 100% chance? Or the message informing you was somehow wrong?
Anyway, it's not quite important. As for balance, level 3 cooking is really hard to achieve, so the tasty reward is fully deserved.
- Antidote - this one looks all right too. But you say it saved you only from 1 disease?


Edit:
Test 16 is stable and working well.
The only major bug which is still not fixed is the desynchronization for some players happening in the beginning of bot hosted multiplayer game. This is why I will release series of Test versions, trying to isolate and fix this issue. Test 17 is the first of them. Please play and tell me if my measures to prevent it are working.

 

[chessboxing]

Few notes on test 16

Hello,
Tested several games (test16) and seems that critical errors no longer
appear in single player after computer totem fix. I noticed that game is more stable and it takes less freeze time after end game. (before the game used to freeze for several minutes and you had to end process with Task Manager).

Some small things (cosmetics and gameplay) that can be improved:
Game start (single player) - after 10 minute timer expires food is reset to max (makes game start easier). So if players know this they dont use food in the first 10 minutes. (Even if all slots in a tribe are empty the timer still counts the tribe as if in game).
Computer tribe Totem kits drop - can be dissassembled to 3 wood 1 mana stone.

Rest - animation to notice -
when autocasting is on - resting goes on infinitely without notice. Usually this way you lose heat very fast at night . I guess a sleep animation above players will notify them to turn it off when not needed.
OR: as autocasting is auto turned on when below 50 energy - so I suppose it should be auto turned off when energy reaches 180 or max... (just to prevent this heat loss at night).

A nice sound for run/panic is I think: "Animation - DevourMagicLaunch" (Undead Destroyer ability). Its quiet and not disturbing. Currently no sound is played and its not very clear when run ability is used.

Antidote
removes some of the poisons and others remain. Example: there are a tarantula, snake and a spider. The 3 bites stack and u start losing 3+2+1 =6 hitpoints/sec. If u have a fever too it adds further ... so if u take an antidote then - it removes the fever and the last poison (spider), but still the other poisons would remain. So u need to use 2 or 3 antidotes to remove all. (tried this 2 or 3 times before and in test 16 too). I thought it should remove all poison/disease effects when u take antidote.

Cooking skill achievement lvl3: when it is achieved the chance is like lvl1 (or at most 50%). I was curious if it was 100 % as tooltip says. An easy way to reach it and test it is like this: (maybe exploit :0) you make a firecamp and a cauldron or 2 cauldrons). You gather some raw meat, bones/fishbone. Then you cook everything in firecamp first and then in cauldrons (you take twice the experience). So it seems at lvl3 the chance is less than 60% (not sure if lvl2 is more than 33 % need to check this too). However this has no impact on gameplay.

 

[chessboxing]

Some new stuff (suggestions for future map ver)

turtle shells (small)
currently they are useless maybe for all except warrior class (due to bow/gun use). So i think they could be used for other items like masks (seems logical - similar to petrified mask: + armor +20% evade critical) / OR also to reinforce coats: 2 shells are equall to a giant shell. (this can add versatility to gameplay)

Quest reward items - options for further lining (boots/gloves) or imbue (mask) would make the items even more effective.
Also some quest rewards may be changed to a choice of 3 items like: gloves/boots/coat so different classes can choose. (similar to starting item choice). Example: (mana stone / iron bar / bronze bar)

Crafting energy:
Class craftings (bows, granades ...) could take more crafting energy.
My opinion for shaman animal revive energy costs should be increased (x 1,5). He is able to raise alot of animals very quickly and compared to a hunter his animals are already grown and at full power, also cant be poisoned/diseased. Also warrior / inventor could use crafting energy every time they make a weapon / invention.

Buildings - can drop resource when destroyed (some of the hard materials used like stone, wood, flint ...)

Hatchery
a small nest where players can try to hatch any eggs they find (if not hungry). Maybe built in tannery or troll hut.

Foods / potions
As in real life the foods / drinks you consume change you: so this can be made in the game with slight bonuses that differ accordingly. example:
10 cooked/raw meat eaten: +1 str
10 berry/cake: +1 stamina
10 bone/boulion: +1 spd
10 diet drink: +1 all
herbs also


Tents - may be changed to require rope to build/ also get dmged by storms. (Logic is like this: u know that u use ropes to hold a tent. Also a strong wind/storm usually can tear the ropes / tent so u need to fix it or disassemble periodically).
Also another use for furs / linen cloth: they can be used to upgrade a hut/tent to provide additional heat like blanket/carpet and then taken out (probably this would complicate things too much, especially when now fur tents/ hut provide really high heat restore). I noticed that now a fur tent or hut is enough to restore max heat even when snowing at night without need for fire/forge/clothes. Maybe no need to make game harder at this point.

elderbeasts - spawn at game start (smaller chance than 1,2,3 lvl animals) will make trophy skulls much easier to acquire.

Game has improved alot now. There is endless new things that can be done, but i wrote down some ideas and posted them (otherwise probably would forget them)
all the best

 

[gadina_prokleta]

I really like most of the suggestions.
- About Rest animation - I also thought of that, but I think it would be annoying. Imagine it: most of game time the troll will have a Zzz animation or something else. By the way, currently there is a small change when resting: the troll is forced to use his first Stand animation, which is usually the lowest (no jumps/somersaults).
- Sound for run/panic: I'll try it.
- Antidote and Cooking - I should inspect the triggers again.
- turtle shells - you're right, they should be used 2 for 1.
- More item upgrades: I prefer to not mess with that for now, more items require much work - low priority for now.
- crafting energy: yes, I plan to make invention using the same mechanics. I doubt it should be used for crafting too - or if it would, all craftings should require some energy... Which is not contributing much to game immersion.
- destroyed buildings dropping resources - yes, this is nice and contributes to gameplay (gives a chance to trolls to restore their attacked village). Yet it is in my long term list - not enough time for me to do everything :/
- hatchery - sounds sweet, I like it
Still - low priority.
- Foods/potions giving attributes - I fear it might change game balance too much in some games, but still tempting (just imagine a Shaman hacing so much Stamina that he actually gains energy over time while not resting; it is almost possible even now).
- Tents upgrade - it is nice. Still, it makes the game a little more complicated, while I am aiming the opposite.
- Elder Beasts - okay, I'll set it as high priority.

Your ideas are nice and usable. By the way, tell me which troll class you prefer and how do you want your name to be spelled as a random character name

 

[Velrog]

Remove the auto-cast on the Rest button, it pretty much kills the point of survival and messes with the Attack Move command as when i try to attack something or move using that command, the trolls stops and begins resting. And i don't have time to waste watching if my Rest is on auto-cast or not. Otherwise the game is awesome, but that action game mode is pointless to exist, only makes it too easy. That way the noobs will never learn. 5+ from me.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Thanks!
As for the autocast: from noobish point of view it is much better when the resting is starting as auto-cast. Otherwise the noob ends up lying on the ground and wondering WTF has happened. On the other hand, a player who gained some experience can always turn it on/off. If you think it is too easy, try exploring the Jungle at night and resting on the ground without camp fire or tent
The attack move command is not essential. I'm glad that auto-cast resting stops it, because attack move through the Jungle is one of the most certain ways to commit suicide in JTR
As for the Action mode: it is just a mode. New players usually do not change modes. Or do they?

 

[chessboxing]

Some bugs on test 17

Hi,

few things noticed so far:
Guardian / No Totem (bug)
At game start if u pick the totem kit and then drop it on ground (dont build until 10 minute timer expires) guardian spawns without totem. Then guardian can move and attack across whole map (you can use it as a tank), but totem does not exist.
This means tribe cant be defeated by totem break, but they cant revive unless they have ring of res (such mode would be interesting too, maybe for more experienced players).

"EDIT: it works only on tribe 2 and 3 when there is computer opponent in another tribe. Also after guardian spawn if you pick totem kit of opponent and place it you have 2 guardians."

Random class choice (bug)
If you choose random troll at start: 2 trolls spawn and you can control both, but they cant pick weapons normally, so its not playable. If you choose class normally then all works OK.

Desync - still happens (2 players dropped from total of 8). Both dropped were from second tribe i guess slot 5 and 8. (1 game tested) /all other slots were closed/

a sound too loud (bass):
When inventory is full and you try to pick a different item (when "inventory is full" message appears) the normal "Error" sound is played, but then also another sound is played that is too loud (bass) and is really annoying (spoils jungle ambience): sound name is "Sound\Ambient\DoodadEffects\NorthrendBattleshipLoop1". (Just set high volume and bass and try to pick something with full inventory to see). When there are such heavy bass sounds you need to turn volume too low and then cant hear most things.
So if possible this NorthrendBattleshipLoop1 should be replaced with normal Sound\interface\"HeroDropItem1" or "PickUpItem". In general my oppinion is that most sounds have to be selected to fit a silent environment such as a real jungle


My view is totem break better not kill players (end game for a tribe).
Also a defeated player may be given vision of his allies only so he can at least watch reminder of game / or chat with them if they allow him // some option for ignore annoying teammates/ghosts could be included (vote...).

desync - 1 idea for cause is that maybe some (computer slots) can be required by the game triggers (not really sure how) like allocating some units to a particular player temporarily...

 

[chessboxing]

Resting system notes

Rest:
There was something in the old rest mechanics that allowed you at least to move away when attacked on low mana. Currently it overrides all previous commands given + combat ability. The troll decides to take (several) naps while attacked and it becomes not controllable (rest is not cancelled by attacks either). Especially when there is fever and cold - it takes a long time
until mana can get above 50, so often u cant actually move/escape due to consecutive auto rest.
AutoRest mechanics (the one that plays sleep animation and prevents player control) needs a longer cooldown between sleep auto trigger even if mana is at 0 /it will resemble something like "adrenaline rush"/. Otherwise it happens that you simply cant move (fever + cold +hunger / +attacked).
To see what I mean try: for example pick shaman class, revive rabbit/racoon and make it attack the troll (both have very low dmg so compare them with players or beasts). Start using heal while escaping and let mana drop below 50. You ll see that sometimes it takes several naps while being attacked before resting lets you move away.
Autorest on/off -- Another useful thing if possible:
rest autocasting to turn on/off itself when mana reaches min (0 ~ 10%)/ max (90 ~ 100%). This way the energy will automatically regulate itself, so unnecessary heat loss at night will be prevented. /Instead of only at 50 mana, sleep should trigger on/off when in range: mana is below ~10% - autocast on ;mana is near ~100% - autocast off/
I was thinking of a sound when resting but couldnt find something that wouldnt be annoying for a whole game

 

[dtyrmale]

make ai version pls

 

[chessboxing]

some notes on test 17

hi

played few games and wrote down some notes/ideas so here it is:

*arcanum of shadow bug: occurs 100%, shaman becomes permanently invisible and cant autorest whole game after he has picked arc of shadow. debug doesnt fix it nor any other spell.
*Stats board dissappears - i noticed it several times. My guess is that it happens rarely after a particular lightning (not sure if there are different types of lightning). Doesnt fix after it happens so maybe -debug command could be made to reset it too.
A rare bug on the previous 1 or 2 test versions (maybe already fixed): few times all game tooltips / healthbars had dissappeared after i guess (the same lightning). Then after 1 - 2 rains with lightnings they usually restored. My guess is that it was related with the trigger's camera/movie mode because it affected all tooltips and healthbars in the current game and it couldnt be changed using game menu.
*Hunter pet (hawk/dog) / guardian also - if u use it to kill animals it neither gives experience to hunter, nor affects beastmaster achievement
Lightning/lag - I noticed that there is some lag just before some lightnings - something like a second or more lag then lightning follows. This means that the trigger itself could lead to some memory leaks.. however game runs very well now since version 17 no errors received so far +

 

[chessboxing]

some gameplay views

- Zombie animals - currently maybe too powerful - relatively very quickly revived / no expire / no poison / no disease. (After a week or 2 you have like 8 - 10 animals easy and can go rampage across map). So suggesttion for change: to have some large amount of energy (something like lvl 3/4 animal) which expires (to prolong them you still have to either feed them like hunter does - or revive them again later when they drop skin/bones). Feeding them with herbs (like omnivore) for more energy could also be used for versatility. Poison resistance makes them able to destroy all snakes/spiders on map with 1 raised animal only so maybe it could be removed.

- Elder Beasts / lvl 3/4 animals - elder beasts too should have mana (expire like ancient turtle) also can have chance to spawn cubs at lvl 4. After they expire: bones / skulls / shell could drop (maybe logical) while furs / meat disappear or rot. This way you still can find the horns/skulls after animals perish.

- Spear / staff - melee range increase - dont know if this can be changed but seems logical a spear to increase a bit your melee attack range: (like 100 - 150 i think bear / aligator have such range and can effectively be used against piranhas)

- Petrified wood - it could be used in more instances improving/providing:
spear: (greater throw dmg)/ + 100 throw range /+50 melee range
shields: less weight / increase block chance a little / lvl1 usable for shaman
shaman staff: (a bit more critical) + (50/100) range // (petrified wood + horn for improved version)
torch: dmg critical if used for attack

 

[chessboxing]

Inventory / helpers

Deer inventory - especially with shaman in the first week you can make like 4 - 5 deer and with so many inventory slots by default it makes it like an exploit. You can gather / carry way too much things with several of them.
There is no logic a deer to carry / pickup things without any bag or some tool. So they could have a default 1 slot for lvl 2/3 (normal and raised) and later upgraded for inventory by some leather bag made of linen / leather / rope providing additional 3/5 slots to lvl 2/3. The bag along with all items could drop on death and be reused/ also could be taken off the animal anytime.

- Warrior class - unable to use a helper like a deer so this is one of its big disadvantages (scouting/carry items) especially in single player. Some option to buy one from troll merchant would be useful (example: antelope cub // or I remember long ago there was a horse unit that you could make. Maybe more realistic would be the unit to have energy so if you feed it with herbs/tinders it can be used whole game).

The idea of buying a helper directly / or old concept of creating a horse unit could make the game less survival, allowing spamming some artificial army. So if anything to change I guess an antelope cub or similar (say 20-30 gold + the cost of creating a bag) could somehow compensate the advantages and prevent spamming/creating some vast army of it. And to remain realistic the quest mechanics can be used: if center merchant stock is 0 (max stock 1) there is a small chance for new +1 to occur instead of a quest, anouncing to players that its available).

 

[Metalbear]

Any plans to make a single player mode for this, or its gonna stick with a MUST for multiplayer?

 

[gadina_prokleta]

We have started work on Jungle Trolls II, which should be technically far more advanced.
We plan to implement character equipment slots, more intuitive crafting and maybe single player missions/achievement system.

 

[RedZack]

Awesome, Jungle Troll Tribes still exists , didn´t expect that there was much going on with wc3 mods, till an email arrived today from hive workshop.

And now you even plan/build a sequel, maybe this will be a reson for me to come back to wc3 mod playing, and I might consider hosting the new version if I enjoy it.

When can we expect the first release?

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Really can't tell. Much depends on my coworker Frotty and my own free time... Which is a scarce resource. I only hope beta would be ready this year.

 

[Viei]

Awkward moment: description says 5.6.16, downloaded map says 5.6.20, www.jungletrolls.org malfunctions.

 

[chessboxing]

Some forest randomize triggers

Hi

I was inspired by JTR map and started thinking how you can randomize forests to differ every time a map starts. So here is a simple randomizing mechanism with around 9 general variations for randomizing a circle or square-like tree line forest (like these used in JTR). It could be used also for 4 separate regions on different places on the map. It uses loop that proceeds for a large number of small forests (map example is 10 forests).
The triggers contain some info + some editor sounds and effects / camera to show the changes. Random values of the variables are displayed for reference.
Also there are some basic triggers for buttons/gate/teleport.
Variations are like: wide entrance (4 or 5 trees opening from a side) / narrow entrance (1 or 2 trees opening); several entrances of a forest (1 to 4 sides could be open with different size). Higher chance is for 1 side big opening (standard) // smaller chances are for 2,3,4 entrances or even the forest to be closed (inaccessible). Also in some variations a special tree appears (lightning effect + petrified tree). It uses 3 random variables and 4 regions. In some variations the values of variables are linked to a region or number of trees/entrances for process improve.
I used some basic mathematics skills + some variable type knowledge and compiled it for like 2 or 3 months from time to time. The process could be done alot better using more variables (better probability/programming skills).
It could be useful for improving the map / new maps

Edit: Note: for test map - in main editor window File/Preferences.../Test Map : checkbox "Use Fixed Random Seed" has to be unchecked in order testmap to be able to generate random values of x,y,z variables at start. Otherwise it generates fixed initial values at start every time test map function is used.

Keep up

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Thank you, Viei!
I'll fix that for next version. As for the domain - well, I have rent it again for 2014 but I dropped the C-panel I don't need, forgetting it was used for redirecting. So these days, while establishing bots, I noticed that. Now trying to do stupid Google verification of the domain.
Damn, I began to put money in this game, instead of the opposite

Chess, there is such mechanics for that changing some tree lines - opening/closing paths at game start for about 20 places. I don't know how A.Dominion made it : ))
Your suggestions are so great and I feel guilty I don't have the time to do them...

 

[animewidri2]

This is a awesome map!!!! I love it!!!!!! <3 <3 <3

 

[chessboxing]

some errors / bugs on 5.7

Hi,

i tested the new map 5.7 and noticed a few things that can be improved.
(i tested single player on tribe 3 with 1 computer player in tribe 1)
- Most important is that with the new system the computer player is not dropped from the game and his totem is autobuilt = the same old critical error appears when u go close to his totem (also animals that near can cause crash).
Some interesting thing (2 guardians): i picked my totem and didnt build it, but dropped it somewhere on the ground. So after 10 minute timer it didnt build my totem, but guardian spawned and could go to the 1st tribe totem. Also the computer tribe guardian was given to me so i had 2 guardians. So when i sent both guardians near computer totem it started using coil spell and then game crashed with critical error (I guess this is easy to fix). Otherwise before this i played a whole long game without crash and only when I watched replay noticed the thing about the computer opponent.
--- another bug i found with frolls(quest):
I gave to 1 froll a shield and a club (both slots full) and attacked it. So he went hostile and started spawning infinite harpoons on the ground (old bug i guess due to full slots).
--- another old bug is the dissappear of stats board, also when using -ms command it showed same number (i guess it happens after some lightning). -debug command could be made to affect those things.
--- Host Bot in BNet Europe: game name is actually very hard to copy/paste.
It starts with color coding something like c00fff....Jungletrolls #2 so i had a hard time even copy the game name. After i copied it it was very easy to enter games, but otherwise its very hard as the game appears rarely and its actually there. So i suggest the gamename to be changed to be simple if possible so players can type it easy and join. When you type whois {the host bot name} it says: it is in game Jungletrolls #2 // but the actual gamename is something like lc000fff.....Jungletrolls #2 . I think fixing game name will improve multiplayer.

 

[chessboxing]

some gameplay things

here is some views / suggestions for gameplay

++ run speed : it becomes too high: a hunter with boots of haste becomes faster than his hound. (A hound is usually twice faster than humans )
Actually lategame the speed of the trolls becomes really somewhere near 500 when using Run so it becomes like they all move at max speed (compared to games like DotA and others). To fix this maybe the Run command should give some constant increase in speed like +30 or +50
Otherwise it becomes 300 + 50% (150) = 450 :
trolls become the fastest in the jungle.

Edit: its logical run speed increase to be affected by burden (armors shields/ scales make you a bit slower and less manouverable) while lighter materials allow you faster movement. Instead of burden just affecting energy consumption. // example: run = +50% ms - burden (fixed or %). This way lighter coats (lvl 1, 2) will have their benefit in speed, while heavier/warmer armors will slow players a bit. //

-- destroyed totem -- suggestion: after this i guess troll items could drop on death instead of remain in player. So this way totem protects tribes items/ otherwise they may lose them. Also the destroyed totem not necessary should kill all tribe players instantly (it just no longer benefits them).

-- totem guardian revive cost is still 1000 / while totem mana is 500.
Mask that uses pact needs to be fixed

-- idea came about guardian: tribe starts with say full totem mana and no guardian. Then they can choose what it is depending on what fur / shell they bring (bear fur + 500 mana for bear // +shell for turtle / +sabretoot...) And all guardians have their benefits. Also should be able to use food / heal potions to recover faster. Otherwise u have to heal 2000 point guardian with 25/50 heal only.
-- the old option for some 30 / 50 second totem invulnerability could be useful (with reasonable cooldown).

Keep up

 

[chessboxing]

more notes

Hi,

here is some more ideas that i wrote while playing:
(if something is applicable could be added when time allows )

-- shades: in order to prevent exploits with shades scouting and then immediately revive: 1) shades vision may not be seen by team but only for the player himself. 2) Totem / horror totem aura could affect mana regen, reduce shade vision while in range / also some totem spell like -150 energy could be added to delay revive on scouting shades.

-- chitin - when used for coat (also mask) could provide the range/spell resist as on the animal instead of only armor.
-- snake leather coat - could provide some evasion (due to surface)
-- aligator leather coat - lot of armor + waterproof
-- masks with spell/range resist (turtle/chitin) instead of only wood
-- quests with piranha / frog -- better to spawn in random locations so players have to find it/ also piranhas would be dangerous if between islands and not in corner. Otherwise every time u have to go to same places.
-- festive hats are somehow useless (replace with cakes)
-- F9 menu tips could be updated / added all class info, weapons, weather, modes, animals ... / new players will have tips easier
-- tarantula/anaconda mojo - could be used for adding orbs to a weapon(venom/bash), for invention / guardian
-- torch if possible to be added to weapon models would be nice.
-- inventor - maybe instead of making random inventions and wasting time / resource he can go directly for particular one. They could be grouped by levels increasing required energy. Example: by the time a hunter / shaman can make a bear, the inventor can make a golem or thunder club ...
-- shaman hands/freeze spell - should allow melee attack / also a bit higher cooldown. Otherwise with 2 books (hex/ hand) you can infinitely hold a unit.
-- mining - requirement for weapon would prevent beasts and guardian from attacking mines. They are anyways ineffective in mining and produce too much noise, also often auto target mines when in combat.
-- visual effect for rest - the best thing i guess is an aura buff for the player only while resting (briliance/wardrum/kodo pulse animation)

 

[fr14nd1]

Is this map playable in single player? It seems pretty complex than any survival maps.
And for chessboxing, don't multi post. Instead use edit and keep everything on one / two post.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Chess, I have changed the bot name the moment I saw your post. Now it's JungleTrolls.
Next week I should have some time to see about the damn computer player and most important, to implement a really sweet update of the death system (a possibility to possess a beast while waiting to gather energy for revival).
I'll think about the other things. For slowing effect Burden on run speed - maybe it's not a bad idea, but it would maybe tip the balance in unexpected direction (well, quite expected that it would be bad for Warrior, but at least he can leap).

fr14nd1, yes, the game has relatively poor single player. It was meant for team play, but I agree we should at least implement some "Trolls vs. Jungle" mechanics. I can't come up with a simple to implement idea which would make the game actually better in this system. Maybe an evaluation system which requires trolls to gather a quantity of points (by finding and killing epic beasts) over 10 days? (Otherwise Jungle wins.)

 

[fr14nd1]

fr14nd1, yes, the game has relatively poor single player. It was meant for team play...

And I get the feel on first try. I tried it on single player, walking and understanding the game mechanics, and I recognize something: I need a friend.

...But I agree we should at least implement some "Trolls vs. Jungle" mechanics. I can't come up with a simple to implement idea which would make the game actually better in this system. Maybe an evaluation system which requires trolls to gather a quantity of points (by finding and killing epic beasts) over 10 days? (Otherwise Jungle wins.)

Umm... proboably it would be the single player mode?

Anyway, I could say this map is quite challenging. For example, rain affects your heat, while tree are hard to find (Plus you don't have an axe). Too bad many people don't like survival games like this.

 

[Doomfan64]

I would think a singleplayer mode could be like a roguelike where you try to survive for as long as you can while waves of hostile NPCs spawn and try to hunt you down. Maybe there could be hostile NPC villages with buildings that you can destroy to weaken them.

 

[SwyZzNex]

Very nice map we still play it in gameranger with some friends. My nickname is SwyZzNex or [BG]SwyZzNex add me if you wanna play JTR together.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Bright Future

This is the project Gadina worked on for the last whole year: Bright Future, a card driven board game about post-apocalyptic survival underground. Check out the amazing artwork and design! The game currently seeks funding in Kickstarter.

 

[nosivodead]

here is some views / suggestions for gameplay

++ run speed : it becomes too high: a hunter with boots of haste becomes faster than his hound. (A hound is usually twice faster than humans )
Actually lategame the speed of the trolls becomes really somewhere near 500 when using Run so it becomes like they all move at max speed (compared to games like DotA and others). To fix this maybe the Run command should give some constant increase in speed like +30 or +50
Otherwise it becomes 300 + 50% (150) = 450 :
trolls become the fastest in the jungle.

Edit: its logical run speed increase to be affected by burden (armors shields/ scales make you a bit slower and less manouverable) while lighter materials allow you faster movement. Instead of burden just affecting energy consumption. // example: run = +50% ms - burden (fixed or %). This way lighter coats (lvl 1, 2) will have their benefit in speed, while heavier/warmer armors will slow players a bit. //

-- destroyed totem -- suggestion: after this i guess troll items could drop on death instead of remain in player. So this way totem protects tribes items/ otherwise they may lose them. Also the destroyed totem not necessary should kill all tribe players instantly (it just no longer benefits them).

-- totem guardian revive cost is still 1000 / while totem mana is 500.
Mask that uses pact needs to be fixed

-- idea came about guardian: tribe starts with say full totem mana and no guardian. Then they can choose what it is depending on what fur / shell they bring (bear fur + 500 mana for bear // +shell for turtle / +sabretoot...) And all guardians have their benefits. Also should be able to use food / heal potions to recover faster. Otherwise u have to heal 2000 point guardian with 25/50 heal only.
-- the old option for some 30 / 50 second totem invulnerability could be useful (with reasonable cooldown).

Keep up

chessboxing im agreed with some of your ideas
-model for torch.
-f9 info
-quest piranha/frog ramdon location.
for everyone: join garena clan and play with us.

 

[DarkTroll]

Gadina, I read in these forums that you are in the process of making Jungle Trolls II, which is good, very good. This is my very first post in the Hiveworkshop, and I am doing this so I can give you a few suggestions. I will do them class by class.

But first, about the second map. You spoke that it is going to be more advanced, and I asked myself " What do you mean by 'advanced'? " If it is going to have a harder Game Play, we from the Sunny Trolls Garena clan will gladly welcome that. The 5.6 and 5.7 versions of the map are... Too easy, and a bit unbalanced for our refined tastes. We play only the 5.5 version of the map, and for some of us, it is getting old, tho, you most likely have been already informed of that.

The first class I'd like to talk about is the warrior. In version 5.5 the warrior's dual wield increases his attack speed, which is very beneficial, however, in the next versions, especially in 5.7, tho, I am not sure about 5.6, that was dropped out. Further more, other classes can wear the weapons and armors which in version 5.5 only warrior can wear. For balancing purposes, either drop that, let the warrior be able to use bows, guns and books, OR, the better suggestion I came up with, remove the burden from the warrior, for he is strong enough to wear any armor and weapon. Thats his job, to be a powerhouse and while wearing heavy armors, to still swing his weapons with ease. Also, as the warrior holds no weapons, nor armors, make him move and/or attack more faster, for there is nothing to weight on him. That way, the warrior, the strongest troll in the tribe, will not be hindered for wearing heavy armor like the rest of the trolls, and would be beneficial for wearing lighter armors. And in all honesty, the weapons to have critical hits, instead of giving damage seems like the better choice. When you hit with an axe, and its not critical, you just hit a hand, or a hoof, or somewhere not all that important, but when you critical hit, you'v hit the middle of the chest, the sides of the body, the neck, or head. Same with the mace.

The hunter. I don't have much to talk about the hunter, except that he should be slowed down move speed and attack-wise for wearing heavier armor. As to the suggestion of adding the spirit to posses a beast, I believe that this should be for hunters only.

The inventor... Here, I have barely anything, except maybe " robotic arm " invention, which allows the inventor to hold a shield and a gun as well as the main weapon, and " MechaSuit " for inventors only, which allows the inventor to wear lvl 4 armor with the penalty of lvl 2 armors.

As to the shaman... Aaah, the shaman. How effin wrong it is for the shaman to revive undead beasts lore-wise. Yes, that too. Please, do educate yourself a bit on how trolls worship their gods. http://www.wowwiki.com/Loa Long story short, Loa are the troll 'gods', Loa are spirits, and each and every spirit is a Loa, depending if it is worshiped or not. With that said, here is the suggestion for the shaman. Drop the undead animals fully, and replace them with spirit animals. Once an animal has died, the shaman must craft a totem, from bone and wood, for example, and sacrifice that animals meat and fur/skin. After that is done, the " Enraged Animal Spirit " appears, which is twice stronger than the normal animal, but without its abilities. Snakes do not have poison, bears do not have bash, panthers and aligathors do not have critical. As to how it is twice stronger, it has double heatlh, attack speed, damage and armor. Yeah, that isn't really 'twice' stronger, its much more stronger. After that, the shaman, or the whole tribe, must defeat that Enraged Animal Spirit, and when it dies, an item, or a mob is spawned, which is " Weakened Animal Spirit ", which is then 'tamed' through a spell from the totem in which the shaman sacrificed the fur/skin and meat, which totem was first placed on the ground to summon the spirit. The spirit has the same stats of the living animal, with special abilities like bash and crit, without the double everything. After that, the totem can be picked up, and carried. When the totem is placed, the spirit appears. When the totem is destroyed, the spirit is 'released' from its prison, and is once again enraged, as only the fur/skin is dropped. The enraged animal spirit appears where the totem was destroyed.

Well, thats pretty much all I came to speak about.

Edit: Oh, and Jungle Trolls are not green. They are blue, purple, and anything inbetween. The green ones are Forest Trolls.

 

[Seth]

theres no lore-wise element in this game though... only troll-culture, so don't get too sensitive about it...

heres some of my report:
-add quest npc's narration for every quest when clicked besides giving us the rewards after finishing the quest, cause most times we'll miss what the npc said in his dialog...
-there seems to be a possible glitch or just the game duration (day 7-10) i invited a troll from another clan and not long after the troll's other clan was gone, the guardian beast spawn right back to my base and i now possesses 2. (do ask if you're confused)
-nice welcum note from the start of the game.
-btw, love the fact that taming alligator with 175 melee range since they can attack piranha without getting hit theirselves (would it be the same with the black piranha quest i wonder...)
-guardian beast can walk free after the team's totem is gone... (thinking how it even get gone...)
-vulture king boss can't be net down to land, it is only killable with throwing weapons
-please change bone's design cause they're hard to pick up ...
-VERY IMPORTANT: i remember posting on the thread that i've made all the 3 shaman books out but i can only take 2 of them... it keep falling off my slot and sometimes different book varies from different carrying limit, have you fix it yet?... and still... a shietload of feathers is a pain in the ass - -
-loophole: tamed bears goes into winter hibernation can be cancelled by hitting them with trolls and spamming right click to force them move during the time they get hit. (they only use hibernate skill once at every Winter/Snow weather)

-this is Seth, a loophole discoverer that haunts for glitches and bugs for every strategic game and abuses them xd.

 

[chessboxing]

Suggestions for Fixes and gameplay changes in 5.7

Hi,

the game complexity and possibilities are awesome.
Still there are several things that need fixing in version 5.7 sooner or later. Currently multiplayer is not possible.
As for suggestions: imagination is the limit.
It took some time to make a few notes simple and clear. Here it is:
--------
Fixes needed in 5.7 / JTR2:
Player drop due to desync at start: maybe in 90% of multiplayer games.
Suggestion of cause:

details

Initial map triggers in progress need some time to complete.
Only after game mode is set players should be able to select building/choose hero.
Refer to DotA start mechanics: mode is set; some seconds elapse; then players can choose.
*slower computers may need some time to process the initial triggers at start. So a few seconds until game mode is set may solve some errors.

*Rest mode - (auto on) is hard to notice on time when it triggers in combat or at night:
(sometimes stops attack while in combat/ cant be noticed quick).
Suggestion: brilliance aura (only the visual effect) / kodo aura (without dmg).
Both auras have pulse effect that will emanate when rest mode activates so to notify players.
*Intro mode music is too loud/(heavy); intro text is too fast. (Maybe some interactive tutorial would be nice in JTR/JTR2).
*Option to change the music theme like in DotA: -music (theme)

Edit:

My next post adds further details to some issues/items

*mask of invulnerability - required item was removed (change) cant be made.
*guardian revive - needs 1000 energy and totem now has only 500 energy
*guardian and totem are not fully shared to whole tribe. (cant assign hotkey).
Only one player has full control. Issues with guardian occur if that player leaves.
(guardian becomes hostile to tribe or disappears, even totem is destroyed: end game). If totem is not built before 10 minutes: sometimes only guardian spawns(no totem). Computer players remain whole game/ computer guardian spawns (no totem).
*Option for players to start coop multiplayer game with 1 tribe only (not require 2 tribes). Selecting computer opponent makes computer totem kit/spirits/guardian appear. If the computer totem is built crashes occur. Guardians can be rescued
*sounds from animal abilities(roar/enrage) are not played.
"Inventory full" sound is too loud and heavy for jungle environment. (Soundname is: sound/ambient/DoodadEffects/NorthrendBattleshipLoop1.wav).
*Game start: For Each tribe 1 firecamp kit at start would help the initial trouble/guide new players. Also increase survival chance, and therefore help overall gameplay.
*Animals (roam/escape range perimeter / return time) could be increased. *hit and run hunt tactics should be harder.

Move speed/run/panic:
In lategame speed like 500+/600+ leads to not balanced battles, glitches, lag...
Suggestion: remaining food, heat and burden(equipment) to affect "run/panic" speed. Default movespeed (ex. 240) + "run" formula.

Formula for run/panic speed increase

*Formula for run/panic: Base speed(ex. 240) + default add(+60ms) +(food/10) +(heat/5) -(burden)
food(200), heat(100), Burden(0) = +60 + (200/10) +(100/5) -0 = +100ms
food(100), heat(100), Burden(20) = +60 +(100/10) +(100/5) -20 = +70ms
food(50), heat(0), Burden(10)= +60 +5 +0 -10= +55ms
Note: (current food is divided by a factor of 10; heat is divided by 5).
With less food/heat run increase is slower. Less equipped players are faster.
Example: default movespeed(240) +boots(50) +run(70ms in 2nd example) makes 360ms. This way overall movespeed wouldn be too high +ms add is fixed instead of %.
*Hunger may add a temporary +ms/+as buff (adrenaline/enrage).
All units in jungle may have similar ability that increases their speed temporarily. Panic thould trigger when players approach some of them.
*Speed of lvl3 predators/elder beasts could be faster than lvl2.
*Some of the jungle animals should outrun trolls even in lategame.

-----------
Suggestion: Units and Firecamps can have shelter from weather effects when close to solid buildings:

• Solid buildings provide shelter for units and firecamp(from weather effect). Example: armory can be used for shelter(from wind/rain effects). No additional heat/regeneration provided. *Huts and tents provide normally shelter and additional heat/health restore.
• Firecamp has shelter when next to a solid building (for ex. armory or hut): weather effects no longer will destroy it (put out), or make forest fire. (Will receive energy as if fired by oil when it is close to a building).
• If placed away from a building: firecamp can still be affected by rain if not fired by oil /and also wind will affect it.
• Firecamp heats(activates) Cauldron and Forge: they activate when burning firecamp is connected to them.
• If fire is extinguished cauldron/forge become inactive until heated (as if installed on the firecamp)./There is a model in editor for inactive forge. Cauldron can have bubble animation when activated/ Heat aura from the firecamp will trigger them active/inactive. This way players will not have free heat all game and will have to use resources to kindle the fire whenever they need heat/forge/cauldron. I think this idea is very simple and therefore easy to implement. It will add some realism to the game in heat management.
• Add firecamp+cauldron+forge next to a solid building (for shelter from weather).

------------
Jungle

• Chasing a rabbit/racoon/deer with just axe or club should not work. *Passiveness and slow speed make hunting too easy and no need for strategy and tools.
• Sabretooths / deer could move through trees to be more surprising/evasive: cloak ability / sprint can shrink their size (to move trough trees) for its duration.
• Hex spellbook shrink size temporarily: for sneak/escape tactics for allies.
• Old animals(lvl3) can drop horn/bones/shell.
• Aligator/piranha shadowmeld effect at night(when immersed in water and passive).
• comodo lizards/anacondas may be a good addition to the water areas.
• Some jungle hawks may be nice too.
• lvl 3 Boars / Stags may have some higher dmg/or critical: they have some powerful tusks/horns.
• elder beasts(lvl4) should spawn at start same as lvl 1/2/3 instead of only in lategame.
• frog quest: reward should be an egg that could be carried and placed anywhere or hatched. Instad of spawn directly in quest location. 1 Aligator could spawn near frog for harder quest /or/ frog could spawn random on map water areas so players have to find.

--------
Arcanums while equipped unlock special skills. Example:

• Light: global range of heal / regen spells for allies.
• Darkness: unlock raise animal ability of shaman instead of having it from start.
• Shadow: provide true sight/unobstructed vision(air unit), replacing "stumble upon" skill.
• Suggestion: 1 arcanum max allowed to carry instead of 2
• spellbooks should add burden (arcanum add 2x)
• Option: add arcanum to totem to upgrade it (1 upgrade allowed per game): adds 1 spell to totem: regeneration/teleport(similar to town portal)/freeze

----------
Random spawn locations of Oil / Boss / Quests for more unique gameplay:
Oil: the 4 oil sources can have variation spawn on each of the 4 islands
(not the same spot every game). Variations: Piranha lakes; quicksand areas;
tarantula/anaconda lairs; aligator areas; boss areas.
*mineral waters can change locations also
This would change the gameplay for players who tend to always setup bases next to oil/hot springs.

Bosses: each one can spawn at different lairs /or also new areas:
Grizzly/Wolf:any cave; Vulture:cliff areas; Comodo: also in waterfall areas
Grizzly and Comodo locations have too narrow entrances like a maze.
Could be corrected to be more open and harder to attack the bosses.

Tribe random start location could be added at mode setup screen.
Tribes could start on random islands every game (or in a different area of the island).
-------------
*Torch: better options to use / add to class crafting for all.
Suggestion: able to use torch as either primary or secondary weapon(still count as weapon).

Torch use and effect

Players can use: 1 torch / 1 primary or secondary weapon(axe/bow/shield):
-If a player is using primary weapon like axe/club/spear the torch becomes passive (vision aura only) or with small chance to deal fire dmg (5%).
-If the torch is used with bow/gun/shield it becomes primary(melee): 20% chance for ignite:
(few seconds Fire dps. Effect: "drunken haze+breath of fire" dps /or/ Firelord "incinerate" spell.
-If there are consecutive hits or more torches in battle fire dps can stack. Can add fire dps when attacking buildings.
-Example Variations: (axe+torch; +javelins) / (torch+shield; +harpoons) / (torch+gun/bow; +harpoons) / (torch+blowpipe; +spellbooks).
Hunter class almost can`t be countered without torch: (invisibility/speed/traps).
(Hawks/vultures are too weak against bows). Inventor flares are OK but can`t be used by all.
Warrior can`t use any other detector. Torch is also too weak for primary weapon.

*Shields: Active Ability to shields (bash with shield). Effect: (dmg/stun/push away),
depending on shield materials: giant shell / shell / chitin / petrified wood/ aligator leather/bronz/iron.
Inventor can make improved versions (even add spikes).
*Masks: more materials used: (shells/chitin/skull/leathers) allowing options to improve(+hitpoints/+energy/+maxheat),
or add range/spell resistance(10%-20%) as they are used to protect the head.
Quest reward mask - needs option to add some resistance or standard regen/invis/invul upgrade.
*Global Merchant Shop -mercenery camp behind troll chief. Rare animal resources that were sold by players will be available there for higher price: 3x / 4x sell cost.

*lvlup and stats - Option for changing different stats by skillpoints/items:

modification options:

Currently in ver 5.7 basic gain is total 9 skillpoints per lvl(auto).
At lvl 10 it doubles starting skillpoints: increasing only health/mana regen and move speed.
All classes remain at around 200 hitpoints unable to counter different teamplay strategies. (2 bows / 2 guns ...)
*Suggestion: (+1str adds +2hitpoints; +hpregen; (+1agi adds +1ms; +1as); (+1int adds 2 energy +manaregen).
Base gain of 6 skillpoints per lvl will auto increase stats according to class.
Players can choose to allocate remaining 3 skill points per lvl to str/agi/int.
By lvl10 players will choose to allocate between: 60 additional hitpoints /or/ +30ms/+30as /or/ +60 energy.
-In addition some item specific attributes (masks/better equipment/weapons) could increase/decrease: maxheat/maxfood/resist/attackspeed.
Options to modify parameters would improve gameplay.

Gadina, lots of good luck and fun with the new project Bright Future!
Seems that the dwellers of urban areas face survival too.
It would be nice if the project complements with JTR
Inventors seem to have some knowledge from the urban world.
Adaptable concepts will create foundations for inspiring environments.

Regarding Bright Future project name(just a note): I tried to find it on YouTube to see some more info. So I typed quick "Bright Future card game". Seems that there is an older card game with the same name and its with ecological/educational content for children. So maybe you will need to work on the game name: uniqueness/easy access to info.

Edit: my opinion: when you find time fo JTR focus on fixing the desync issue/totem issues. Really the game is very nice, the only problem is that it takes long time to gather players and find a game, and the desync splits the game, so teams remain like 1:0:4 / 1:4:0. Sometimes a few hours spent for multiplayer: and those few games u join result in drop. Edit: in my next post there is some more suggestions for fixing the multiplayer drop / balance issues in order to improve the map .
Keep up and take care

 

[GONZALORD]

This is the project Gadina worked on for the last whole year: Bright Future, a card driven board game about post-apocalyptic survival underground. Check out the amazing artwork and design! The game currently seeks funding in Kickstarter.

wow! 11.000 Euros! Good Job!

 

[DarkTroll]

Player drop due to desync at start: maybe in 90% of multiplayer games.

Desync problem can be avoided by the players. The same thing exists in 5.5, and when we restart WarCraft III, and the first game which we play is JTR, we do not get desynced. But if you have played a game, and did not restart, you will be 100% desynced. Without a matter what game you have played, be it JTR, Rabbit vs Sheep, or even a normal map in single player, if the program is not restarted, and you attempt to play JTR in multiplayer, you will be desynced.

Also, if you so much want to play with others, the Sunny Trolls garena clan host 5.5 with ent hostbot between 4 PM to 10 PM London time. But do have in mind that they have a few rules circulating amongst them for better gaming experience. Such as, no entering enemy island until day 5 and simple things like that.

Have fun with that information.

 

[chessboxing]

More visions on the jungle in JTR

Hi,

Edit: I would like to share some views with JTR developers / all players. I know not all ideas are applicable, nor there is time to implement alot of them. This post and the previous one contain alot of new ideas and suggestions to add. Most important is if possible an update to fix major bugs and the disconnect issue. There are some suggestions for bugfixes/balance/mechanics and a few new items/abilities and changes, that in my opinion could improve gameplay and allow better multiplayer. Here it is

• Balance issues / exploits / fixes:

  
  

  • Gameplay/error issues /bugs in 5.7 multiplayer:

    
    

    • Heat loss (bug) - (Fixed) :

      Stand near a heat source (firecamp/forge/tent/spring) drop and take any lined(boots / gloves) multiple times: starts substracting heat constantly. Substracted value stacks multiple times (with every drop) resulting in constant heat loss. If the player is revived (miracle) the heat triggers are reset and heat works normal. Still if after this the player needs to again drop his equipment(for crafting) - the issue with heat loss occurs again until next revive. Can`t be fixed by -debug / heal / any potion / spell. Usually it is hard to notice as every time lined fur boots/gloves are dropped it adds to heat loss with like -2 / -3 heat. As game progresses the stacking becomes noticable even at day (-30; -50 per 10/20 seconds). Note: all coats/gambesons and also boots and gloves that are not lined dont cause the issue.
    • Totem / Guardian mechanics - (Fixed)

      
      

      • Totem and guardian owner cannot be changed interactively ingame(edit: only the player that built the totem could change guardian control). In case the player is afk the others are unable to use guardian. Sometimes if the player leaves the game or is dropped the guardian can become hostile or the totem can be destroyed leading to end game or crash errors. Totem cannot be assigned to a hotkey by other players, but they still can use it by selecting it.
      • Guardian revive is not possible. (or is it limited to only 1 per game?). Overall in lategame it becomes relatively weak with not many options for effective heal by all classes.
      • Edit: Totem placement sometimes results in player block (guardian is spawned first then totem is placed slightly away from the location intended). Option for cancel build should be available(currently totem is ward type building and builds instantly).
      • Multiplayer coop mode with 1 tribe only should be made possible instead of require player/computer in a second tribe. New players (when less than 4) will easier explore the game in 1 team and dont have to wait for more players to form more teams.
      • Some host bot games cannot start until there are 2 tribes(computer cannot be assigned as an opponent). If multiplayer opponent team requirement cant be removed: a computer player could be assigned temporary as "Jungle", so multiplayer games could start with one team too). In single player: games could start without required opponent.
      • Computer guardian autobuilds after 10 minutes(sometimes with totem): could be reworked in order to prevent crash errors. Chance for game crash is like 100% whenever an animal or player nears computer totem.
      • EDIT: Spooky aura in 5.7 is not functional: shades are invulnerable and this aura affects only their health regeneration/speed. Negative energy regeneration for shades should be affected instead (fix). Could also reduce sight range of shades - to prevent scouting.
    • Hunger: fix/balance

      Edit: In ver 5.7 hunger drops health way too fast. Makes early game very hard. It drops like 6 hitpoints per instance. Even with mask of life and resting/healing in base - it kills players too fast: especialy if they need to combat for food.
      Health loss due to hunger may be reduced at least by half so players have more time to react. Maybe resting(shelter) could also slow rate of food decrease / hunger health loss a bit. Maybe option for increasing max food value in late game would be good for gameplay. Players wont need to eat too often / carry food all the time.
      
    • Panic mode / energy recovery / escape mechanics - fix

      When energy is close to 0 autorest (nap) occurs, stopping the player for a few moments in order to recover some energy. (sometimes it happens during panic mode, and cancels the run effect). Suggestion: Emergency movement / escape mechanism: panic ability (for its duration) should override auto rest not to occur(even at 0 energy). Or the effect of increased speed during panic should be paused during a nap(allowing its full duration after that). Otherwise autorest(nap) may happen to occur several times exactly during panic mode, reducing its full duration. If players are slowed / cold / or in combat: panic (run) ability should allow some emergency escape mechanics.
    • Cloaked units - vision bug

      Edit: At night - when approaching animals with cloak ability - even they stand still - they can be seen for a brief moment and then become cloaked. As if the ability is affected by the player approaching them (it happens in the range of probably normal day vision).
    • Critical error - using helper units - (Fixed)

      The error occurs usually in late game, when a helper unit(pet / revived unit/golem) is used to cook meals several times, while player is away from base. Maybe the unit receives the cooking experience (instead of player) and cooking achievement lvlup on the unit causes the error. 10 units of food give like 40 experience. The lvlup occurs around 180 experience. Some of the instances give experience to the player / some to the unit.
    • Stats board disappear (bug):

      If any building / kit is cancelled with ESC key, while in progress: the stats board(in top right corner) disappears. If the same step is repeated after that with any building kit: the stats board appears agan. Note: If the building process is stopped using Cancel button on the building - the issue doesn`t occur.
    • Invulnerability mask (cannot be created) - (Fixed)

      Tooltip and item required is not correct. This mask is used alot in multiplayer battles. Cannot be created in 5.7// (Still could be found while fishing).
    • Sounds: Inventory/spells/abilities

      
      

      • "Inventory full" sound; fishing bobbler sound; most spells (miracle / weather changes) when not ready (low mana) use the same sound as inventory full(battleship). If you are not using headphones the bass becomes too loud compared to most jungle environment sounds. Could use normal inventory sound patterns.
      • some sounds from animal abilities are not played(enrage / roar). Also it is hard to notice the boss that has appeared (maybe a specific boss sound on spawn will be good notification).
      • Option for changing music theme with commands would be good.
    • Notes on game versions 5.5 / 5.7:

      Some players prefer version 5.5 for multyplayer. I guess its because easier resurrect/lower movement penalty for heavier equipment/ no guardian / items are restricted to class.
      However my opinion in 5.5 lower lvl items like lighter weapons/coats arent effective in team play (dont provide any extra move/attack speed(less burden)/give insignificant armor/heat) or are restricted. This makes most materials in game useless for some classes (low lvl item: leathers furs chitin shells). The same resources are used in every game: trying to get the possible highest lvl items / inventions and go for combat instead of choosing from a wide variety of item options each having specific benefits.
      Ver 5.7 has fixed some exploits: quick suicide /teammate kill / revive in order to craft high lvl items and zombies; using lot of stone walls to block / scout large areas; Carnivorous plants taking too much time in the game; Buildings in 5.5 are very easily destroyed with clubs. Totem can be destroyed very quickly (few hits) with high level clubs leading sometimes to end game without battle. With item restrictions generally there are fewer options for diversity in gameplay. Version 5.7 has alot of fixes and changes and gives more possibilities for different gameplay. Game errors and lag issues are much improved in my opinion. Fixing issues like invul mask/guardian control/totem hitpoint and end game balance would be good for multyplayer.
      Multiplayer: edit: due to disconnect errors at start, alot of games with random players end up in remake. I know that there can be done some tricks like restart program;rmk and like, but in general it takes too much time. Also not all players know this. The start desync drop issue doesn`t occur in DotA for example. Of course there is normal player drop that occurs sometime in every game.
      Several years ago the multiplayer desync issue at start was occuring in JTR (Maybe JungleTrollTribes then) and this hasn`t been fixed until now. So instead of just trying to avoid it there should be some reason for it in the triggers.
      Actually the restart game before joining JTR seems to work and most players remain in game.
      However simplifying the initial start mechanics could help the issue.
  • Suggestion for Disconnect error fix / Start Mechanics

    A test version of the map with disabled triggers for different Game Modes setup at start(No Dialog Box options for mode setup). It could show if game mode choice mechanics cause the desync / or / is it something else.
    Default game options at map initialization for all players:
    Mode(Normal); Action(On); Plenty (off); Hardcore (off); Tutorial (off). [Action mode could be On for test versions]
    
    If desync drop no longer occurs after 10 - 20 games tested. Simple changing of the mode select triggers one by one will be able to fix it easily. Testing could continue by simplifying the mechanics. Maybe there is too much unnecessary triggers in the dialog buttons tool.
    Instead of using a dialog box - the Starting Item choice mechanics(Wisp) could be used for applying all game mode changes as well. I guess Difficulty Mode is the most important one and therefore could be set first of all. After that all other modes could be set while game has already started for all players.
    
    Changes in Start Locations and Hero Selection (For test versions):
    Changing the Hero Choice Buildings and Start Locations (used in ver 5.7) could show if there are some errors in the models/mechanics used so far. Start Location and hero selection could be done in one common place(region) for all players (maybe similar to Random Draft mode in DotA). After this players spawn on the 3 islands.
    Different buildings for Hero Choice options could be used(test version): a Circle of power for choice /or/ 4 invulnerable units(a model for every class) plus an option for random class choice.
    
    If the Game Start process is done step by step (with some seconds and Notification Messages between Mode Setup / Building Spawn / Hero Choice / Game Start) and the desync drop still occurs: it will be easier to notice exactly when it happens.
    Start mechanics (with mode setup options):
    

    1. Game start: Game loading is OK for all players. Start locations should be on the same spot(region) for all players to minimize chance for errors.(still no player buildings / units are spawned for players).
    2. Few seconds pass and host(or a random player) is prompted for choosing only Difficulty mode (Easy/Normal/Hard) - [no dialog screen, instead a start item choice: (wisp) appears]. If host is afk or doesnt choose: after a few seconds (maybe 20): Normal mode is set by Default.
    3. Few seconds after mode is set : Player choice buildings spawn (in the new start region /or/ on every tribe island as before); Initial hero choice by players is then possible. Game time could be reset to 05:00 am.
    4. After a player selects hero - he spawns on the corresponding tribe island. Totem kits appear at the spawn locations.
       *At this point game has already started. Now the host can further choose other modes one by one (for testing purposes). Same choice mechanics are used (Wisp).
    5. Action mode - as it affects only spawning of a single item (shop kit) for every tribe, therefore it can be selected when game is already running.
    6. Plenty Mode - can be disabled for test versions. Maybe no need for changes in this mode if desync occurs when it is disabled. Same mechanics: wisp spawns for host. After mode choice corresponding resource spawn starts. (Default mode choice for Plenty is Off).
    7. Hardcore mode - if it is changed to ON during gameplay it should cause drop of items of players that left / or died in the first days. Those triggers may be used in case victory conditions are removed and destroyed totem would cause automatic Hardcore mode for the tribe.
    8. Tutorial mode could be disabled for test versions. Then If selected after game has started pause game / cinematic mode for all could be used.

    Common Game Start Location: the pool behind Vulture lair (Southeast) / cliffs near Grizzly cave (SouthWest) could be used. A region outside playable area would reduce errors caused by realtime changes in the stats of nearby jungle units.
    
    Logic: Difficulty modes modify the stats on all jungle animals - therefore until game mode is set and animal loading is done: all players at start should have the same Initial Start location / Selection options / Camera Mode / Units in sight range).
    I noticed that the starting hero choice buildings in JTR(5.7) are spawned immediately after game is loaded and choice is possible before mode is set.
    Notice: hero chooser building (portrait) differs at game start. when selecting a nearby unit(player or jungle animal). Then selecting of the same hero choser building displays the normal model/different from the gamestart.
    Also: 4 buildings per tribe spawn on map initialization regardless of number of players. The unused hero buildings are then auto removed by triggers. All this actions could result in loss of data during game loading for players. Notice and compare the first few seconds on map load(selection/buildings in sight range) when DotA starts and JTR start. DotA start moments are much simpler (only circle of power is selected and all players are awaiting mode).
    Fixing this will make multiplayer less time consumming. Currently it takes hours for a normal random game to happen, due to drop / remake. Eventually most players stop trying to play multiplayer. The game idea and environment are amazing and you can see that some hosted games are starting with like 10 - 12 players. Then several players are dropped/ so if they are teamed the others leave for rmk too and it all starts again...
    However I guess that any suggestions for cause / fix may be helpful.
    
    
    
• Gameplay Suggestions

  
  

  • Game Modes:

    
    

    • Separating choice for combat / survival
      could allow more gameplay possibilities
    • combat (jungle animals stats): easy /medium / hard
      Combat stats could be changed to be not related to survival difficulty. Players will be able to choose the level of combat challenge of the jungle. More experienced players will likely choose harder combat difficulty.
    • Survival difficulty(stats decrease/weather effects and duration): Easy / Medium / Hard : separate mode choice would allow more gameplay variations when combined with different combat modes.
    • Resources: scarce / normal / plenty . Initial resource spawn currently is on day 1 and then at day 2 / 3 (players go several times to the same spots on the Island to check for new resources, which is not very realistic). The amount of resources that spawn randomly for Normal mode could be changed to (random value between 1-3) per unit(item location) and only the initial spawn on 1st day to remain. Plenty mode could be the same with (3-5) units per resource(item location).
    • Edit: Voting: could be used for choosing game modes(all players receive the screen for choosing modes for a fixed amount of seconds: if they choose modes - it counts as a vote; if some players are inactive - it counts the vote as if normal modes are selected; then after the timelimit expires game mode is set according to all votes). Because in 5.7.0 the player that can choose difficulty is selected randomly in every game, voting (by all players) would prevent undesired choice by more players in the game. Default choices for all modes will be "Normal" in case players are afk at game start. All players will see the same interface at start and this will remove the difference in game time for the player that chooses the modes and the others (as in 5.7.0).
    • Tribe setup: In addition an option for bigger teams could be made possible(maybe by initiating vote mode): like 6vs6 / 5vs5 mode depending on how players agree to setup the teams. Players could also choose to be outcasts(no totem) or make smaller team (different than team setup when joining the game). Mechanics: several circles of power at start so players make their choice. The voting required for this mode to start could prevent exploits / abuse by players that are afk or try to spoil the game.
  • Balancing survival gameplay: Effects

    Effects (hunger/cold/diseases/storms) should be changed to not kill players - instead health should not reach below 1 hitpoints from any effects. In ver 5.7 health loss from these effects kills players instantly. This makes the survival gameplay much harder. Players should have a chance to react/recover, while already at very low health. All of these effects should not affect health if it has dropped below a lower limit like ex.: 5 hitpoints. Effects like hunger would not cause death, but will force players to remain on very low health until they find food. When players are very low on health and have some of those effects (hunger, disease, cold, or storm is on) instead of instant death, pain effect could occur, until the negative effect / weather is no longer affecting players, or some health is regenerated.
    Only damage from attacks/spells should kill players instantly. This would make the game more combat oriented.
    
  • Weather / Shelters / Terrain

    
    

    • Weather
      - Edit: indicators of weather change / weather types -

      Weather changes could be preceded by a notification message; sound / animation effect (wind sound / lightning / snow effect) then after some buffer time (20 / 30 seconds) actual weather change occurs. Players would notice and be able to prepare for the effect. In reality most (rains / storms /snow) are noticed some time before they occur. Same as when totem is used for weather change: indication and short delay before applying the change.
      
      Normal (short duration / no additional effects) // Heavy weather (longer duration / with effects)
      *Rain:
      []Light rain(short duration / no lightnings)
      []Heavy rain (longer duration / with lightnings)
      *Storm:
      []Short duration (normal)
      []Longer duration with wind effect (random tree or bush is destroyed). Effect around tree: war stomp
      *Snow:
      [] short (normal duration)
      [] long snow: freeze effect on river (could be walked upon for a while) / slide mechanics: terrain becomes slippery for some time. Boots allow normal movement.) Trolls could arrange ice skating tournament
      
      *Night: cold sound / cold animation: periodically to appear (to remind of cold and heat loss at night).
      
      Moonlight effect at night on clear weather (a few rays of moonlight may appear randomly on the map every night for visual effect. Similar to lightning when raining).
      
      Difficulty mode would affect the chance for every instance of weather(rain/wind/snow) during the game.
      Example: Normal / Heavy weather
      Easy : 90/10% ll Normal: 75/25% ll Hard: 50/50%
      
      
    • Lightnings:
      Edit: Suggestion for change of rain / lightning mechanics

      Rains could be 2 types: with or without lightnings(like 50/50 %chance). This will remove some of the lag that is caused by this particular effects. Also lightning would occur not everytime there is a rain, making petrified wood harder to find.
      The full Lightning effect triggers could be local (some radius around the object where lightning occurs): in order to reduce loading and playing of lightning sound/flashing animation multiple times per rain for all players regardless of map position. Instead the heavy lightning animation and the sound can be played on the object: the players notice it only if within some radius of the event. For players that are far away: sound only or a simpler (requiring less memory) light flash effect could be used.
      The visual effect and sound of lightning storm in 5.7 are very good though . It adds some nice atmosphere to the jungle environment.
      
    • Natural Shelters in the jungle
      Edit:suggestion

      A few additional spots on the map (natural shelters) where players could regenerate some health/energy if weather surprizes them. It would add some realism / gameplay variations.
      This aspect in the game is missing in ver. 5.7. On Normal/Hard difficulty weather effects cannot be countered without a shelter. Survival in early game is very dependent on Tent / Hut / Heal.
      
      Places/locations that could be modified to provide rest regeneration / protection from weather effects:
      
      *Troll chief camp building / Froll village building / cave entrances / waterfalls / some cliffs / springs / spots in boss;anaconda;tarantula lairs / ancient ruins near teleporter (a few additional could be scattered around the map) / several big (ancient) trees.
      
      Mechanics of shelter aura from tent/hut could be used. Small radius around the cave entrance/cliff/neutral building: provides shelter aura and resistance to rain/wind/snow. This way players wont need to always carry a tent / lots of heal; or remain close to base.
      Some of the objects (ancient trees / ruins) could be randomized at start for gameplay variety.
      
    • Forest variations: If you find any useful triggers on the randomize map I uploaded several posts ago, try to implement it when time allows. Further randomize of the forest maze will allow more gameplay patterns for the players.
    • Additional visual doodads for plain areas - bushes (similar to hunter tent / or snake areas) will improve environment / allow easier camouflage.
    • Ancient Teleporter:
      Edit:suggestion

      Its very easy to destroy by teams with no inventor (2 / 3 hits). It has influence on the gameplay for inventor class and their teams: needs more hitpoints on the structure(like rocks) / some warning messages if it is attacked will notify inventor teams. Small vision on other side of portal when used would be helpful (to know if other side teleporter works). Option for invention item craft to unlock/allow use of teleporter by all classes (some kind of key item invention available in workshop) / or build additional teleporters (2 way structure placeable anywhere).
  • Jungle / Unit abilities / Mechanics

    
    

    • roaming: some jungle animals remain still whole game. Adding wander ability to more animals will make the jungle more realistic. / maybe higher distance perimeter and longer return time(to spawn spot) to prevent easy hit and run (I guess it is defined in Advanced/Gameplay Constants).
    • Edit: Noise aura around players - could scare small animals whenever players near. Panic mode should increase radius / chance to scare. Effect can be similar to carrying torch. Hunter may have smaller noise aura/no aura when using sneak ability. Also invisibility can cancel this aura. Example: whenever this aura range affects a small animal it should run away (try not to stay near to players, if possible not returning too quick to its initial spawn area). Can stack with torch aura to increase range. This will improve hunting aspect.
    • small animals and birds would be better if all have some ability like panic/sprint/night vision (harder to hunt / more effective if tamed/raised). Predators (higher lvl/elder) may also have +ms/dmg increase (enrage).
    • Elder beasts spawn at start may be good for easier make of rare weapons and items earlier in the game (and not to compensate with teammate kills/suicide/resurrect).
    • Old animals(lvl3)/Elder Beasts(lvl4): chance to spawn cubs/lay eggs should be on lvl3 and again at lvl 4. Elder beasts should also have mana(expire). After lvl3/lvl4 animals expire: the mechanics of killing the unit should be used(modified): the unit that expires - instead of disappear - should drop only the hard resource (bone/skull/horn/shell/chitin/feather) while the fur/leather/meat is destroyed and could be removed/rotten. This way the hard resources could still be collected after animals perish.
    • Boss hitpoints should be reduced proportionally if it spawns in early game (maybe first week. As more time passes after this boss can spawn with full health). Currently (5.7.0) they always spawn at like 50%.
    • Eggs: most found eggs could be hatched in some nest (old idea). Maybe built in tannery or troll hut: feather / tinder or linen cloth.
    • Raised animals (zombies) should not be immune to disease/poison: Their regeneration rate should be increased a bit so disease cloud not make them lose health. If energy is provided to them they will expire like hunter pets and will have to be fed and not be infinite. They are too powerful if immune to disease/poison. This limits the effective ways to counter them with all classes.
    • Storms currently damage birds all around the map (2 or 3 consecutive storms kill most smaller birds i guess). Some resistance of birds could fix this.
    • Snow - all plants Berry/herbs on the map lose health and growth. Tooltips / game information say that snow only affects growth(energy) on plants. Storm(wind) also damages all plants.
  • Victory Conditions / Teamplay / Tribes

    
    

    • Totem destroy - instead of end game: Hardcore mode starts for the tribe: players are unable to heal / resurrect from totem. Items are dropped on death. Still players could join other tribes if invited /or/ play without totem as a tribe /or/ can play as outcasts (no ally vision / team chat until invited to tribe). Players may lose some experience (lvl decrease) if resurrect when totem is destroyed.
      After totem is lost it will be harder to survive, especially when other tribes have totems (weather changes/easier heal and resurrect) and jungle map reveal option. If items are no longer retained (no totem): games will not be prolonged too much, also won`t end immediately in case of base trade.
    • A common strategy with totem (and guardian 5.7): stone walls can be used to block totem / or / guardian to be unreachable. This makes them like invulnerable before stonewalls are destroyed. Its a nice strategy that can be countered effectively mainly by warrior / inventor as they have more effective attacks against buildings. This is why with current victory rules of only totem destroy alot of games end in base trade attacks. The map size is huge and there are not many options for effective return. The team that destroys faster wins instantly and some games end without battles.
    • Totem should not be permanently invulnerable to prevent exploits with hiding/blocking guardian with stone walls. Totem hitpoints could be increased so it cannot be destroyed fast with single surprise attacks. In addition totem invulnerability spell (60 seconds with long cooldown) would help teams return to base. Model: old stone structure model for totem (obelisk) looks more solid.
    • Guardian: if it is destroyed and tribe totem is functional: guardian becomes in spirit form and it can be revived using totem mana. If the totem is destroyed the guardian can not be revived.
      If totem is destroyed and guardian is still alive: it is no longer linked to the totem and can move anywhere. A few inventory slots would allow effective heal for guardian / also it could aid tribe. In ver 5.7 guardian is around 2000 hitpoints and totem can heal it for 250 for its full energy. Only shaman class could heal it effectively using spellbooks.
    • Revive cooldown: (for every player / guardian) could be implemented to balance combat. Also revive near totem could allow some seconds invlnerability / invisibility to prevent instant killing after revive. Also if combat happens near totem instant revive can cause significant advantage to the defending team (cooldown/timers/notifications could be implemented).
      In case totem is destroyed player revive location could be moved near troll chief / merchant.
    • some small totem mana at start (in case heal is needed) could be helpful for new players.
  • Inventions/Workshop

    Inventor: His second ability (invent) is somehow passive as it creates only a recipe(he needs further items / buildings to be able to create them) therefore it could be added to his class craftings.
    It could be replaced with an active ability: Disassemble (items/kits) to be his second skill. This way he will be able to obtain/transform resources from any items and building kits he can pickup during the game without the need of creating/using forge. It could use the same ability and mechanics used in forge: item in slot 1 to be disassembled. He will be able to Dismount buildings with his 1st skill and then with his 2nd skill to further disassemble kits/items. This way inventor will have 2 active abilities that he could use effectively during the whole game. If item restrictions are further removed he would as well be able to pick up and disassemble some additional items usable only by other classes.
    
    Invent could be added to his class craftings with 2 options:
    

    • random invention - creates random item recipe (his default ability in ver 5.7, no crafting energy).
    • specific invention - could use crafting energy to create specific item from a list of possible inventions. Items may be grouped by levels increasing required crafting energy. Common inventions like improved shields / combined weapons / helpers / engines could be available so players could access them easy.
    • using random inventions could have chance to create some special items, that are not available initially in his invention list. Also using the skill could give him achievement experience, improving his invention list.
    • however a Workshop is required for all inventions to complete - therefore specific inventions(recipe/plans) may be added to(to be initially available in) Workshop to be accessible to other classes as well. Crafting energy will be used for creating the plans. Only inventor could have the ability to create random inventions for no energy cost, and as well some special ones as his ability improves.

    
    Instead of trying multiple times to create specific invention(1 hour+ / or to try again in next game with inventor class), players will focus on needed things in the particular game also may choose his items and strategy based on the resources he has in the current game. (Bare necessities ).
    Disassemble ability(available in forge) : could be moved/or also added to Workshop (seems logical the ability to be accessible easier). Workshop would also allow modifying items.
    
  • Weapons/Armors/Shields

    
    

    • Weapons

      
      

      • Axes / Throwing weapons / Envenomed weapons:

        
        

        • Bone axe - item to be changed to: Flint axe(all axes would require basic resource).
        • Bronze bar - required resources could be 2 flint + oil / or stone + flint + oil.
        • Fiery axe - axe should not drop when using fireball (no need / item is lost too easy).
        • Throwing weapons(Javelins): level 1/2/3: bone/flint/horn (producing bone darts/javelins/harpoons). Armory will allow easier use of Bones / Horns as effective weapons(invention requirement slows this process for horns, while bones are rarely used for weapons, except for arrows. For bone darts: nightelf/heroes/ fan of knives(ability) icon could be used. Also option for envenom in cauldron could be added for all level Javelins.
        • Throwing weapons(Throwing axes): 3 levels: (bone/flint/stone) allowing some resource variation options. Less range/higher damage than Javelins. 5 bones could be used in requirements for 10 javelins/throwing axes).
        • poisoning of traps / javelins / harpoons / spears / daggers in cauldron could be added. Also normal added poison charges without cauldron should be less (3 - 5 instances), while cauldron should add like maximum: 10.
        • frog venom (some slow poison) it is relatively rare though.
        • Traps/mines with poison gas. (I read some old forum posts idea by leso).
          Box / sensor trap kit + gas could be used.
      • Empowered Staff weapons

        Its logical combat staff weapon to be available for all classes - similar to spears. Several different types: bone/horn/petrified with different dmg/critical/range. Also possibility to empower with spellbook and be used by all classes. Spellbooks/arcanum still may be only used by shaman. All other classes: only staff empowered with spell(like towers). This would allow alot of gameplay variations. Maybe totem can use a weapon/empowered staff too like a tower for attack/defense/heal.
      • Class weapons:
        bow / guns / empowered staff / blowpipe / traps / mines / shields to be usable by all classes.

        This will really allow more gameplay possibilities. Ammo for the weapons will be available in the corresponding building (arrows:in tannery; powder:in workshop; needles: in doctor hut). Classes will still have their specific class craftings/abilities directly and will have advantage when using them.
        If the crafting of class specific weapons (ex.: gun+ ammo) require crafting energy and a hunter uses it: less energy will be used for abilities like raise pet/animal/create traps. If another class weapon is used the corresponding hut will be necessary to make the ammo/weapons. With some nice cooldown balance on range weapons/spells/damage/defense: players will have alot of ways to build their game. This way games will be unpredictable.
        Still there may be some penalty or disadvantage on using bow/gun/magical staff/big club for other classes (20% miss; or decrease in attack speed / movespeed/damage). All classes will have advantages in using specific type of items, but will also be free to use everything else in the game.
        Also str/agi/int may affect effective use of different types of weapons. Ammo: all class ammo to be available in the corresponding buildings. It can be used for towers also.
    • Coats / Armors

      
      

      • All coats: could provide minor regeneration (less than mask / maybe 25%).
      • All coats: may reduce wind / snow negative effect by 50%.
      • Lined coats - could remove negative effect of wind/snow (same as rain effect). In ver5.7 storm/snow drops health/heat very fast and its hard to counter without a tent/hut : especially on normal and hard difficulty. Purpose of coat is also to protect from weather effects.
      • heat restoring items: leather clothes / armors / masks / hats: all could increase heat (equal to low lvl fur clothes)/ or also to increase maxheat. Heat is a significant factor in the game.
      • Armors(fur) upgrade: instead of only need giant shell to upgrade: 4 chitin/2 shell/1 giant shell could be used as alternatives also for reinforcing all fur coats, allowing quick use of resources available in current game). Each material could provide different protection.
      • Armors(leather): 5 bone/ 4 chitin / 2 bronze / 2 shells / 2 iron: could be used to upgrade increasing armor; resist +15/20/25/30/30%
    • Shields

      
      

      • More options to make shields: from giant shell/shell/chitin/aligator,snake leather/bronze/iron. There should be several different types directly created, instead of upgrading the shield 2 times from tortoise shell. Shields are effective for countering ranged classes like hunters/inventors in multiplayer. If there is hunter/inventor rush with bows/guns: no time to go across map looking for giant shell for reinforce armor/ or/ exactly small shell for shield.
      • Shaman is unable to make a shield and has to wait for the snake quest in order to get one. The shields(above lvl2) may affect the number of throwing weapons/spellbooks allowed to carry instead of not be usable by shaman. For inventor: Gun only(could be changed to be usable with a shield: like a single handed weapon. Shotguns/Sniper guns could be requiring 2 hands therefore not compatible with shields).
      • Shields could reduce rain/wind effect when resting
      
      
    
    
  • Items / detectors / spells

    
    

    • Firecamp kit + 1 wood at start (1 per tribe) would be a very good addition for teams. Would aid new players in early game.
    • Firecamp when lit can have aura to cause fear in animals (chance to miss / scare). Bosses and elder beasts can be immune.
    • All structures should require channeling to build instead of summon (several players can build faster). Although it would complicate gameplay and mechanics.
    • Detectors

      
      

      • Easier craft of torch - add to all class crafting.
      • Inventor Flares to be available in workshop and usable by all / tower.
      • Watch tower can give large vision of an area (old idea by co_oki)
        It could function similar to observatories in SCII: when a player is close to the tower it gives larger vision of surrounding area like air unit. Also a torch can be placed in the tower for true sight
    • Tent/Hut(shelter) option created from basic resources for alternative (or linen). Currently it requires combat for specific leather/fur. More options could be useful for early game on Normal/Hard difficulty. Also all tents should require at least 1 rope to be more realistic.
    • Mirror image spell / tooltip doesnt say that it dispels all effects.
    • Hex / Freeze / Hands spellbooks have too fast cooldown. A bit higher cooldown/energy cost would balance gameplay. Freeze/hands spell could also allow attack. With 2 spellbooks of this type any unit can be disabled permanently (there is no cooldown time between reload if using 2 spellbooks). In 5.7.0 it can be countered only with mirror image / invulnerability(mask cannot be created). Cooldown needs to be balanced.
    • Horror totem effect: in addition to scare may also temporarily reduce dmg/tremble - Effects: howl of terror/drunken haze. Spooky aura could be added to prevent shades from scouting/revive quick.
    • Additional spellbooks

      Spellbooks could be created from rare trophy items:
      Summoning (spirit hawk / spirit wolf / spirit bear / spirit dragon); Each book allows 1 summoned unit at a time (permanent). Could be 2 lvls - upgradable once - increasing unit stats/ adding abilities (true sight/critical/bash/poison attack).
      Summons may require crafting energy like pet for balance (100/150/200/200 energy). Also could be used to empower wand/staff (could use crafting energy and have a long cooldown to prevent spamming powerfull units. Allso should not be possible to disassemble). The summoned unit can be controlled while spellbook/empowered weapon is equipped / otherwise can turn ethereal and become inactive (no vision; no control) / or disappear. Books may be combined to form separate arcanum of summoning.
      
      Purge spell : for dispelling effects / or damaging summoned units.
      
    • some voodoo doll spells tend to directly kill the players. Spells can match normal spellbook effects / provide vision / some miss chance heat/ms/dmg decrease / hunger buff.
    • Thermo bottle:
      heat / energy restore

      Made from petrified wood in doctor hut: (something like DotA bottle used on runes/fountain). Can load with hot water in mineral spring/cauldron. Gives 3 or 5 charges that restore heat and energy (mineral water: 25heat/25energy; normal hot cauldron water: 15heat/15energy). Also can be used for the mineral water quest (players make bottle and it is then returned to player after quest complete).
      It could be effective in early game for restore heat /energy.
    • all masks / hats can provide additional heat / range attack resist.
    • Boat: Options for providing heat / speed upgrade would be good / maybe add a weapon to the boat for attack options(like a tower). It would become mobile shelter / attack facility.
  • quests: fair play

    
    

    • mineral water / frog quest: player items should be used to complete. This will give chance to all tribes to complete the quest, and remove possibility of players picking up the item and the quest to be unable to complete by others. No need for going once to middle of the map to take a quest item / then go to complete quest.
    • mineral water quest: a vial/bottle could be created by players and used.
    • frog quest mechanics: the quest item should instead be returned to troll chief, who provides the quest reward (egg that is placeable by players): the same mechanics as the quest with Giant egg/poisons. Players will be able to place the egg in any location / or sell it if they dont need it.
    • Piranha quest: one item could drop when piranhas are destroyed(scourge bone chimes). So only the player who brings it will receive the reward. If no item is required: anyone could take the reward after the piranhas were destroyed.
    • ring quest: the 2 required items could be inside some nests (to prevent possibility of taking right away with air units / or just take and run).
    • Mask (quest item) should be modified to be regarded as normal mask(in imbue recipes) so additional effects could be added to it by players. Only the evasion makes it not very effective to use, compared to masks with invulnerability/invisibility/regeneraton. Also the mask could have its unique effect: (example: additional Hitpoints/MaxHeat/MaxFood ; or Provide temporary InnerFire: Dmg/Armor increase).
    • Quest mechanics: the possibility of a completed quest to occur fast again has to be lowered, to prevent repeat.
    • Quest messages in multiplayer are not logged / do not appear in chat. Log works only in Single player. It is often hard to notice the messages due to combat / tasks. Same for spawning of boss types - if a player is not reading the quest message, later he could not check what was it / or exactly what boss has appeared.
    • Additional quests: requiring some other resources / crafting of specific items would also improve gameplay.
  • Visual improvements

    
    

    • Ally / Enemy color for teams would be good as some player colors are very hard to notice on minimap. The 3 teams can have 3 different team colors when there is more players in games.
    • Troll model texture variations:
      Suggestion

      If possible option to customize models skin color (or add some tatoo ) at start or in game with those available in editor: forest troll / dark troll /ice troll / / chaos / other. Currently only forest troll type model is used. Example: model for shadow hunter is used for shaman class: in addition to the green model - players may choose blue/chaos/ice troll texture. Or applying some colors to models could be used alternatively to texture change. If it is moderate it could add some visual diversity to team battles.
    • Loading screen: map name and version details could be added.
    
    

Overall gameplay will improve the more possibilities there are to adapt to different strategies like increase speed / hitpoints / Increase block/resist for range dmg / use wider variety of different types of weapons/equipment.
While posting those parchments, I learned a few things about forum editing/formatting. This way when there is more information it could be read easier. I take a few notes sometimes when I play JTR, so maybe some of the ideas could help improve the map eventually.
Keep up the good work

 

[QueQueQue]

Hi I'm QueQueQue

Usually I play Jungle Trolls myself because I think in my region I am the only one who play it. So may I request Gadina_Prokleta to encrypt some AI Trolls for me to play with?

And also, the Shaman is so strong, I could barely use it every time. But there is a bug. When a Shaman Extract seeds, combining Greatest Elixir and Wood, it could only make 1 seed for it, unlike when made in the Shaman hut, usually it bears 5-10 seeds.

Thanks for noticing.

 

[ALFAMASUL]

My question estimated:

as you will get greatest elixir in version 5.7.0 ??

 

[AndresCLS]

best survival ever

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Dear Chessboxing...

I hate this damn forum.
You deserve a long and detailed answer which I wrote in about an hour, and then I was informed that my session expired or something like that
Argh. I have no patience to write this again. Fuck you, Hive Workshop!

In a few words: Chessboxing, you did an amazing job. With your help I fixed a handful of bugs and balance issues, but honestly, I can't offer much more to the community.
The game and Wc3 in general are played by a handful of people, and even though I'm trying to make a living by creating games, nothing can justify the tons of work required to make those improvements on a free game, in such an old and unsupported environment.
I will, however, release another version with the following updates:


• troll soul revival by Miracle changed to be more hardcore: after the first death a troll will gain mana to revive himself after 1 day, but after the second death the only option for revival remains the Tribe's Totem
• guardian beast ownership can be taken by any player in the Tribe
• guardian beasts are now vulnerable to poisons and diseases;
• Demonic Voodoo Mask now requires Antelope Horns instead of Pact with the Devil
• bugfixes:
- totem guardian mana cost fixed
- bug with heat gain from equipment fixed
- a possible crash reason with cooking removed

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Dear Chessboxing...

I hate this damn forum.
You deserve a long and detailed answer which I wrote in about an hour, and then I was informed that my session expired or something like that
Argh. I have no patience to write this again. Fuck you, Hive Workshop!

Vbulleten problems. Once Hive converts to Xenoforo, which is soon, I think this won't happen anymore.

Anyway, +rep for the update!

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Normally I love the Hive - in regards of design, community and all the precious information.
But when one's sleepy and tells oneself "hold on, write on all the topics, this guy deserves it" and all the work just disappears... I know, I should write long forum posts in Word (autosave), but I never learn

 

[Erindeir]

worse and worse with everу version...

 

[San]

It is not getting worsen,but the gameplay is becoming more and more different for the old JTR players(like me),its like v5.5 final is the end of 'season 1',and 5.6 starts a second season of JTR with different gameplay.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Exactly.
I'm aiming to make the game more understandable by casual players, so there will be easier to find a party and PLAY it.

However, I can understand why in the eyes of old players this version is worse than 5.5 - because there is no selling soul and permanent losing. But why this is worse than 5.7? It is harder. Now you are revived for free only once... after a whole day. Then everyone in the tribe needs the Totem to revive, and this is why the Totem should be hidden in the woods and protected with traps & towers. To revive, you also need a stockpile of meat at the totem, so you can sacrifice it. How is this easier?!