Jungle Trolls Reborn

[Moderator]

15:59, 4th Dec 2008
Rui: The map is known to me. The previous version was approved, so I guess this one will pass too.
Note, please use the Update button to submit a new version.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Due to complains that the game is too slow, in this version was added a new game mode. It can be activated by Red player before choosing the game difficulty by typing:
-action
The new mode gives to every playing tribe a fully developed Merchant Shop and 100 gold inside to buy whatever they need in the beginning. This mode isn't meant to make the game more easy! It just allows you to skip the survival part of the game, although the survival can be considered the most intriguing part.

Some bugs fixed, some improvements made.
- a new item added - Mining Pick in Inventor's Workshop;
- trolls movement speed increased a bit;
- energy amount regenerated by sleeping in the wild increased to 50% of the starting energy (the change doesn't affect only the Warrior);
- Fireball and Lightning spells now have a chance to make enemy drop an item from inventory when hit;
- firecamp can burn units who stay too close;
- Moving Sands damage increased.
I found a strange bug, which appeared in late game and made the Shaman unable to pick some items, including wand and staff. If someone finds out what triggers it, I will be grateful to know.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Oh, damn, I really want to meet someone who REALLY knows how to cook meat, use the totem, plant herbs, how to PLAY THIS GAME!

 

[T_T]

I really wanted to know how you did the animal/plant life cycle
I can't make an event with some random unit activated by HP or MP, it asks for a specific unit...
I wanted to finish a map I'm making (just for fun), so could you please post it in the spell section as a system?

great map btw, the only bad thing is lag, when the game lasts for a while..

 

[gadina_prokleta]

You're right about lag, but i can't do much about it. Too much models and destructibles on the map, and too much functions and variables also.
I had lot of work these days, unfortunately not on the Trolls, so I had no time to answer you. I'll make a training map with that two functions you wanted in a few days.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Here it is:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/spells/1069
Happy gaming!

 

[pashtet]

Greetings. At me two questions. How to make or find oil which it is
necessary for many recipes at inventor. From what you the countries gadina???
And still I have found a bug:
Bushes with berries ,who plant artifical, do not give fruits. Forgive for curve (

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Oil you can find in four places on the map, usually near alligators, mosquitoes, Moving Sands and whatever horror you may imagine. It is generated one per day, just like the berries. And btw - berries planted should work, hum? Test it again. They should give 1 berry per day every morning.
And about the question
"From what you the countries gadina?"
I'm not sure, but I think you're asking me where am I from? If so, the answer is "Bulgaria".

 

[Egor]

Game is great, good job, well I make and tryed all things in game with my friends buy I didn^t tryed things with Iron ores and Mith to make, well the problem is there I can get them ? I searced map and nothing I tryed to break rocks and hard and nothing, where can I get ores ? I enjoyed game well good job and thx, and waiting for new update.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

You need a Forge. The forge can be crafted in the Warrior's Armory. It heats all the time and allows you to craft Iron Ore (flint+stone), Mithril Ore (flint+mana stone) and a few other things

 

[Egor]

Thx, now I can enjoy game for full

 

[kingkof2]

Very good map. I enjoyed it except the lag in late game. At the end of the game we had animal farms that the pets were too many to control and we sent them for battle! That was fun

 

[Roxxo]

WTF?! JTR Rapes ITT in tha ass! why do they always host ITT then?! i hate ITT! full of bugs and unrealistic stuff happens all the times!

what do you guys think is best of JTR or ITT?!

 

[KaiserG]

well, here i am, and i have some things to say about this map:

1) i really like more JTR than IslandTT or IceTT.. theyre just kinda less realistic than JTR
2) You have done a pretty nice map, and it has some things that look a lot like mine (i've been doing a map of this survival style, just thats not only about trolls) and i have to admit that your map also has inspired me in some ideas
3) gadina_prokleta, i sent you a PM, would you mind in reading it?
4) i have a problem, but i think that maybe it doesnt comes from the map: whenever i host the map, some ppl gets desynced and got disconnected (or at least thats what it seems to be, maybe theyre quitting) could it be happening to everyone? or just for me?
5) Taeiwanniwanga! ^^

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Oh, I'm sorry! Untill now I was never reading my PMs, really, really sorry! To be sure I will read it, please contact me through [email protected].
As for the connection problem... Sure there are many leavers - it is maybe the most difficult WC3 map ever, it is normal. There is maybe a bug also, which causes a game split - it creates 2 game hosts and splits the players in 2 simultaneously playing groups, so players from the other group seem to be left the game. It is terrible, but happens rarely, I believe. Anyway, I need your and other peoples feedback about such cases - especially what you believe that is caused it.
:]

 

[gadina_prokleta]

JTR 2.3 is here for download.
It took a hard work and much time, I hope you'll like it.

 

[FrostUser]

gadina_prokleta, did you notice the bug about disassembling wands and staves (troll shaman + forge = almost unlimited amount of mana stones instead of fish bones)?

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Hell no! Shit!
My mistake...
Will fix.

 

[Biasoli]

Excelent map.

 

[Trenix_Decease]

Great game, some suggestions though..

-There is a BIG problem with sleeping in your troll hut, not sure if its the same with tent. Anyway, its pretty much luck when you sleep next to a hut to actually sleep in it. The range needs to be increase quite a bit.

-Fix stacking items, I believe there is a way with a full inventory to stack items without dropping something and picking the other up.

-Fix up the rock and wood stun and chance of dropping an item ability. With it, you are unable to split down the rocks and wood into pieces by clicking it. Also, how does wood stun someone? Find that quite strange.

Anyway, I read your earlier post.. to your "server splits". Try to look up The Helper Forums. Should be the first search on google. They'll tell you the solution. It's a pain to fix.

I wanna input an idea... I believe warrior and dire troll classes should be removed. The warrior is made to kill trolls, but if it were to be balanced, every class should be able to do so. Also the dire troll, used to be the newbie class, dont understand if it still is, and if it is, point it about a bit more for players. It seems that that troll too has to do with attack. Why, when we have a hunter getting the food for us, so whats the point of a dire troll and a warrior? Having too many classes makes a downfall to balancement. Thought it would be a good idea to replace some classes and form newer ones. Ones that are actually part of survival. I can always think of ones if you like.

Well good luck with the map, hope to see updates soon! Doing a great job!

 

[gadina_prokleta]

I will very soon release a version containing some bugfixes.
- sleeping will be fixed; in 2.3 as many sleeping huts of the same type there are, the less is the chance to manage actually sleeping in them. Range has nothing to do with that (it is 200 - wide enough).
- wands and staves exploit will be fixed.
- I really need to know if the Change Tribe option is properly working. Btw the tooltip isn't correct - buildings of the player changing tribe should not become neutral hostile, but go to his former teammates, or, if there are none, remain in his possession.

To your other questions:
- I wasted about five hours trying to fix the stacking bug, then I left it for better times; consider that 2.3 version was meant only as a bugfix, instead it did much more. Just have a little patience, please.
- a big wooden branch can stun you pretty well, but it has even shorter stun than stone; I think that throwing stones adds to game realizm and functionality, still keeping to ability to unstack them (by throwing them on a bush maybe). On the other hand, unstacking is rarely needed. About the chance of dropping an item - do you think that this makes stones too powerful? I could agree, because they are already a good way to trigger shield block and leave the enemy unshielded for a time.
- server splits... Is it happening too often? No time for working on the map and for testing these days.
- warrior is needed! As a tank, and also as the only real close combat fighter in the game. You ask whats the point? Try the following: in the begining of the game (with Action Mode) build very fast Warrior's Armory, Forge, Inventor's Workshop. Then craft 2 mining picks, give them to the warrior and send him to mine stone and flint. You'll never miss those resources! Or give him 2 axes and look what happens to the forest! In war the warrior is tank and close damage dealer, in peace he is the best gatherer you can have.
About the dire troll - he was a failure as a newbee class, I admit. I will think later what to do with him.

 

[Trenix_Decease]

Sounds good, cant wait for the next update, and its also great that your an active user.

I still dont like the idea that a wooden branch can stun you, but anyway.. as for balancement on the stone, it can be your judgement. You seem to be doing well with it. Yet, if you mass on rocks and throw em all on a player, they can drop their whole inventory.. can be overpowering.

The serversplits actually dont seem to occur, just thought you needed to figure out how to fix em. Since in an older post you stated that.

Anyway, I like the idea for the inventor to have the "recipe" ability, strange items to make, when I saw that, I thought it would be recipe to make food. Which would be cool to cook better foods. Maybe a shaman can have a cook book of some sort and use herbs, meats, and eggs, to make better foods. A caldron shouldnt automatically make better food, should require a bit more work to make it possible. Anyway, shamans seem to lack some activity in survival. Here's a way to enhance it.

As for the inventor, he should be more of a miner, instead of maybe picking a rock (since almost all classes can), he should use Dynamite (rename bomb maybe) which should one shot a rock into a million pieces. Since inventors lack somewhat activity in survival as well.

Classes like inventor and shaman, are not really needed in survival cases since players can make their class buildings and use their items. However, now you can have an advantage with their classes in these cases.

Just ideas, hoping for the release soon! If you can, at least fix the sleep bug, seems to be an emergency.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

I also planned food recipes, but all that new content I left for the time when overall balance will be reworked (like I already did) and when major bugs will be fixed (like I almost did).
First it was planned so for inventor and there were multiple rock chunks to be gathered with 2-3 bombs. The problem is map size and RAM requirements, so I needed to reduce unit quantity. Bombs still gather wood pretty well
Shaman is great survival class. Shamanic heal removes poison/disease effects - veery useful. An enemy once saved my life : )))
The two bugs mentioned are fixed, still not releasing the version, because I need to know if the Change Tribe works properly.

 

[Trenix_Decease]

-=Bugs Noticed=-

-You can walk out of your coma and gain mana overtime, eventually the coma buff disappears.

-Warriors can hold 2 weapons and a shield.

-=More Suggestions=-

+ Must
- Idea

-All baby animals should be neutral and not be able to attack (for the fact that they are little and cant harm you). Some players like to leave young ones alive till they grow so they can be once again killed. It's a pain to accidently kill it.

-Animals like rabbits, raccoons, fish, and so on, should be neutral as well, so players dont kill them by accident.

+Make it FFA, if it's balanced enough as said, every class can survive no matter the standards. Allow alliances to be formed within game. This will allow players to have a better chance to see each other within game, and cut the "newbies" from stealing and wasting resources. If I'm not playing with friends, I solo or dont play at all.

-Crafting book links you to a building, why not give it the "spellbook" ability. Also crafting should be channeled, so it can take some time to craft. If you need help on that, I can help you.

-Gem of Revealing should be renamed to "Map" which is sold to players. It would make a bit more sense. Also, the cost should be lowered to at least 20 or 25 gold.

-Stealth for hunters should be triggered without waste of mana and able to stealth and UNSTEALTH whenever you feel like it.

+Inventors need to have many class crafting removed and changed. Some like, grenades, molotov cocktails, and rockets shouldnt be in class crafting. Instead, they should be moved into the inventor's workshop or better yet, removed completely since its unrealistic. To replace those crafts, inventors should be able to craft a gun, and pick axe. So they wouldnt "Have to" make a inventor's workshop right away. (This also means remove the crafting of a gun in a workshop since no one else can use guns anyway).

-Inventors workshop should allow you to create a forge within it. Inventor's are forced to make a armory in order to craft, why?

+Warrior's shouldnt be able to have "taunt", they are not hunters, they should struggle for food like every other class.

-Hunters class crafting also needs some changing and removing. Sensor trap should be removed, there is no physical way you can be alerted, extremely unrealistic, it should be replace with the creation of a net. The crafts requiring the sensor trap should be replaced with 2 bones added on to required resources. Pets den should be removed for the fact your able to tame now.

-Inventors new "recipe" ability should be inside of his class crafting.

-Piranhas should drop meat, not sure if this is a bug or not.

-A Dire Troll, he should remain a newbie class, not being able to built and so on, but he should be able to be like a thief. He should never become cold though, so it would balance it out since he cant build. Also his movement speed would be greater as well to make it easier to reach places. So he's like a gatherer/theif. It would be quite balanced since he wouldnt even be able to obtain weapons and would do an average amount of damage. This will really make the game more "Defensive" and obtain more "action" throughout the beginning of the game.

-Inventor should start with a mine pick or gun at random, not a campfire, since thats quite unfair that they automatically obtain a fire. A gun or mine pick can help survival.

+Shouldnt be able to buy a mana stone in merchant shop. (Personally I dont even like the idea of the merchant shop or the center area as well.) Mana stones should remain a rare find, having the ability to buy it makes it overpowering.

-Merchant shop should only exist in action mode.

-Action mode icon should be on the side of the bear icon for hard mode, making it more visible to players that there is another mode.

-Rocks should be a random spawn, as well as hard rocks.

-Rain should give herbs a mana regeneration instead of instant mana.

 

[FrostUser]

gadina_prokleta, do you need one very short JASS function called "IsUnitTypeInRange" and useful for newest sleeping system?

 

[Biasoli]

I like the idea of removing grenades, rockets, etc.
It's really out of the context.

Inventors with a (random) gun at beggining?
That's not a good idea.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

To Trenix_Decease:
- I will try correcting those two bugs in the upcoming bugfix version. Btw I tested and noticed, that coma isn't always bugged. I haven't done still a proper test, do you have any idea what might trigger the bug?
- neutral baby animals - if babies are neutral, they will grow neutral and I'll have to create a special trigger for checking and creating all grown animals into neutral hostile. Is it needed?
- rabbits and racoons should be killed the more, the best. They breed very fast and might cause lag.
- FFA - sorry, I have thought over that, but it's not that kind of game. No time for surviving and for delicate negotiations both.
- I don't believe it will work properly with spellbooks. Should try, but I suspect it is tried (and failed) by A.Dominion before.
- the Gem to Map - perfect! Lowering the price - no, it's too powerful.
- stealth requires no mana; unstealth is a problem, as it's based on wind walk (it can't be shut off, as I remember). You can always use Sprint to turn it off, or attack.
- Inventor - please, don't make cripple my favourite class! He's so ****ed off already! And its his name, his purpose are to invent some things, unseen before, including guns and bombs. Powder is a good natural explanation for his so useful mass damage attacks. About crafting a gun - yes, you're right, and the only reason it is in workshop is because he has no place in class crafting for guns and bombs both. And bombs are more by quantity and more reasonable to be crafted by the hero himself. For pick axe - yes, should add it. There is exactly 1 free slot in his crafting.
- Inventor needs an armory for the forge, because it is the most logical place to be crafted in. And the other reason - players should be inspired to craft in the very beginning the all four basic buildings - Warrior's for Forge, Shaman's for Totem and Cauldron, Hunter's for boots... And we need some more valuable to all recipes for the Inventor's Workshop. Such one is the mining pick.
- Warrior can use taunt for easier hunting of pigs, but it's meant to be used for tanking against bosses and large animal groups to save other trolls. Do not forget, that, althought very powerful, the warrior is slow - that makes him a bad hunter and resource finder.
- Invent recipe is a hero ability, a prerequisition for crafting other recipes.
- no, piranhas drop now fishbone only by balance reasons. They are considered a "vermin", not a resource (like mosquitoes, rats). They block certain areas for example. On the other hand inventor can easily kill them (1 grenade) and gather whatever they drop.
- dire troll - I see it as a primitive "neandertal" man, having brute force and the such needed of newbees good vitality.
- mining pick or gun for inventor at game start: too powerful, see quantity and quality of resources needed to craft them (4, crafted in two buildings).
- the price of mana stone is high enough, should I make it higher instead of removing it? Consider that it is really rare - 2 by day on map and approximately 1 per every 2 rock/hard rock deposits.
- merchant shop is very needed in every game mode. Do not forget about buying soul deed or special resources from Tauren. Btw I also don't like him too much, but he does his job pretty well
- random spawn of rocks and hard rocks can be interesting... But isn't it better as they are concentrated in the middle of the map?
- mana regeneration of plants by rain: would make the map a little more heavier.

To FrostUser:
Thank you, I'm already using it

To Biasoli:
Please, spare me... I won't give you WC3 or WoW as example, I'll only promise you that there will be no tanks or robots in this game

 

[BloodyEagle]

Cool game, bugs ruin it.
Warrior: Two weapons + shield, if you haven't figure out how to fix that one, just PM and Ill tell wheres the problem,
Getting out of coma: sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, I would have to check the triggers.
I haven't check, but is there a way to just leave a tribe, without joining another? That would take care of people that want to play alone.
I'm not sure if its true but i think you made the spawn of animals a random 0-3, making it 1-3 would help alot. One game three spawns near my base never respawned and I ran out of food :/
Tiny houses should be replaced with spellbook
I hate to drop one item to pick another that I already have in my inventory and could stack, but it can't because i need a free space

 

[Trenix_Decease]

-=Coma Bug=- For the coma bug to work, you need to be moving, attacking, or about to preform any type of action before you go into it.

-=Small Animals=- Yes, it is required, if I by accident kill one, then they dont respawn and I'm screwed..

-=Rabbits and Raccoon=- The lag will happen whether you make em neutral or not.

-=FFA=- Should at least be a mode, or as Bloodyeagle said, allow us to leave our tribes and form new ones in game. I am a loner, and most players are. Think of it as this, players doing FFA, when one is about to take the other, he makes a truce, forms an alliance and so on. They can even bargain on it, like 1 wood per day. Also, FFA leads to more bases and more struggle amongs players. Actions can happen out of random, and players would try to stay more defensive, instead of attackin at the last minute and waiting hours and hours till something actually happens.

-=Mana Stones=- They should not be sold and given out to anyone with a little bit of work. They should remain a rare drop. I dont even believe that they should drop from rocks as well. Wood and stones are somewhat understandable, not mana stones. They are now becoming to easy to get, when they are not suppose to be.

-=Rain & Plants=- A little mana regeneration shouldnt make a big difference.

-=More Suggestions=-

-Warriors should not be able to craft a bone or stone axe in their class crafting. Also they shouldnt even be able to obtain one at random, hoping to be lucky. They get free wood, which supplies the fire without any trouble. It's pretty much like the old inventor which can start a fire for free. Which as seen, was fixed for balancing issues?

-Warriors shouldnt have "Frenzy" which allows them to attack 50% faster.. that is overpowered. Frenzy should only give you 50% faster movement.

-Hunters den should be removed... like said before, you can now tame animals there is no need for a den, taming is more interactive and better. With the whole "hawk", when you kill a bird, you should have a % chance that it would drop a egg which allows the hunter to have a hawk.

-=Comment=-

When will be the release date of the new version? Give a certain date.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

To BloodyEagle:
- bugs can ruin every game, and every game has bugs; it depends of their quality and quantity :]
- warrior bug fixed;
- no way for now to leave the tribe and play alone; if your teammates are totally noobs, be a real troll, kill 'em and eat 'em;
- when an animal breeds and grows old, most species have a chance for spawning cubs = [1-5]-2, i.e. 40% to have none and 20% to have 1, 2 or 3 cubs.
- tiny houses? What do you mean?
- stack problem: can't solve it for now.

To Trenix_Decease:
- coma bug fixed, as I believe;
- cubs will be neutral in later version;
- mana stones: as you suggested, they will be buyable only from starting Merchant Shop in Action Mode;
- mana regeneration of plants when raining in later versions;
- warrior should be able to craft basic weapons, including axe; it has nothing to do with balance, it is meant axes to be used for cutting trees; cooperation between players must be encouraged; a warrior starting with mace is also very useful as a gatherer, but he'll gather stone and flint instead of wood; he is slow and now even slower (see down), and on the other hand, he is good to gather resources. Anyway, as Blizzard say, "we don't tell you how to play".
- frenzy to be removed? Hell no! But you're right, its bonus was bigger than the bonus of "Sprint" ability of other trolls. Frenzy will now give only 40% to attack and movement speed. It balances a bit also the situation of a warrior with 2 warhammers and enchanted gloves (stunstunstunstun).
- when I revise the spawn of birds, frogs and fish, I'll think about removing the den. But... The dog is unique compared to other animals, it gains XP and has abilities...
- release date: I hope today.

 

[BloodyEagle]

Be a real troll and eat them? I just want alot of people to play with to make the game harder, I play with two friends and we go into different tribes to balance teams, but almost always we have to kill teammates because they still our resources, we tell them not to follow us or anything, we pretty much play FFA but we have shared vision with enemies... When we kill them they start crying, leave the game and never come back, making even harder for us to find people to play with.

If oyu cant solve the stack problem for now, maybe you can give us more inventory space, or maybe 2 inventories? Theres a way to trigger that.

Also if your nerfing rage, just replace it with sprint, because 50% speed was bad enough and with 40% i have no chance of catching up to other classes, and so I dont need attack speed. Net doesnt help with shammans, I tried.

 

[Trenix_Decease]

-=More Suggestions=-

-Items that are able to cut wood and gather stone, like an axe and mine pick, should have a % chance to break, for balancement purposes. Since for the fact you got a axe and pick axe, you are pretty much set with those resources. Like said before, this is how almost every player obtains a mana stone. They sell what they gain and buy a mana stone, or resources they need. By doing this, players should lose resources and making it more difficult obtain infinite resource.

-Better inventory, as bloodeagle said, you should be able to have more space in your inventory. What I mean by this, is to have an "Equipment Bag" and a "Resource Bag". For the fact that if you put on some armor, you are not really holding it within a inventory, it's on you, therefore should waste no space. It's a bit irritating when you have all the items, but you cannot pick up anything more then that. Shouldnt it be an advantage that you made those items rather then a disadvantage?

-Tents, huts, shouldnt give you food, and when in sleep, it should retain your temp or allow it to drop depending on the shelter.

-Stayin within your hut/tent, should heal you.

-Food shouldnt heal you, the shelter should be responsible for that, so players would mass up on food and fight each other. This would make players wanna make potions instead, finally.

-Still encouraging FFA, I am not the only one who's ever thought about this. Ask the players who play this game and are good at it. They, themselves would definitly agree with me. FFA is a definite requirement. You should look forward in putting this in the first priority. I know people who dont even wanna play this game for that reason. Newbs are terrible, and as a inventor and shaman in the beginning, you are defenseless.

-Dire troll is suppose to be the newbie class, dont think its a bright idea to give em that much damage. Try giving them less damage and more defense and hp, but not damage...

-Shamans should be able to see ghosts. (A little fun and cause put totems to a good use)

-Food poisoning should be allowed within the game. Sick and tired of players going to my camp and stealing my food. Storage boxes are not even supplied till near the end. Now if you poison your food, they can pick it up and posion themselves that will drain hp unless you have an elixir, which would be more needed now.

-Enemy buildings should be neutral, seriously I would love to kill a player and use their buildings for my advantage. Sleep within them, and so on. This includes using their fire place, and cooking foods. Not sure about crafting as well.. but definitly to sleep and use fire.

-As for hunter, the dog can level and so on.. well yeah.. levelin is quite unfair, a player getting another hero? Dont think thats fair at all.

-Definitly believe that an inventor needs to be redone. It seems that his crafts are a bit unbelievable. They should be somewhat reasonable. For example, he should be able to craft a fishing pole.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Okay, okay, you're right about eating noobs; I have done it already :]
I will see what can I do. I was just hoping I could release the game faster, as there are some really annoying bugs in 2.3, which need to be fixed...
I have thought about sewing a bag or something for additional inventory, but I decided that boat and horse are enough. Should I make the horse cheaper for example?
The warrior should be slow and powerful. Sometimes he's really too slow, but he is matchless against bosses for example. In the beginning of the game - a gatherer, in the end - tank.

 

[Trenix_Decease]

Tell me about your input of my suggestions below. Anyway, its not the fact to have a horse or boat, its the fact to hold your equipment and resources in different bags. So you get no disadvantages for crafting yourself items. By the way, the horse is a stupid idea as well as the boat, which is why many people dont use it. It's annoying having more then one unit carrying your supplies.

 

[BloodyEagle]

I never use horse/boat, I personally dont like to care about 2 characters, maybe one bag for armor/weapons and one for food/materials ( at the end i got max 2 spaces in my inventory for food/materials and hate going back to base, dropping 2 stones and going back to the place i was )
Ugh if anything I wouldnt mind new class with sprint that can use 2 weapons, they can be lvl 3 for all i care, and have 10% slower attacks, I just hate chasing someone for 10 min until they get in coma or run into 10 wolves...
If you want to release new version because of bugs just make it a quick fix, 2.3a?

 

[Trenix_Decease]

I disagree with bloody, having the ability to obtain two weapons should have its disadvantages as well. The ability of having two weapons increases the damages beyond limits. I've gotten two shotted playing an inventor agaisnt a warrior.

 

[BloodyEagle]

Yeah, if you can read you would know the disadventage: cant use lvl 4 items, no rage(40% attack speed)

 

[Trenix_Decease]

More classes = unbalancment, its good the way it is, just warriors need to be nerfed a bit. They do too much damage, true you cant reach players for a reason, so you dont one shot us. If you want melee, then you have to suffer from range. It's obvious..

If the dire troll was to be taken place for that, the ability to have two weapons is still beyond, and warrior seems like the best class to obtain that benefit. Self explanitory.

 

[Trenix_Decease]

-=Few More Suggestions=-

-Totem should start at 0 mana. Inventors can dismount the totem and remake it with full mana, or you can kill the totem and make another with full mana.

-Hunters should be able to craft scimitars which should be the only weapon that can cut bushes for tinder, not axes, cause I dont even understand how thats possible..

-Remove the frenzy ability from doing faster attack speed, warriors are the most overpowered class in the game. They can get this and hold gloves as well, oh and dont forget the extra damage and more critical precent from weapons, oh wait then lets add two of them, and the extra damage done to trolls. Seriously, is there something that I am not seeing? The only way is mines from an inventor. Lets also talk about how he can carry two items, easily getting rocks, wood, tinder, selling it for more resources of what the player desires.

-You should be allowed to remain in ghost form and wait players out till you feel like selling your soul.

-Fire and tent kits shouldnt be able to be disembled in the forge.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

- I agree with Trenix_Decease about "More classes = unbalancment", at least every single class should be very carefully balanced; that's why I didn't hasten to make the dire troll a full class.
- interesting, I was told just today about the Totem exploit and made his starting energy=50%
- axes aren't too realistic for tinder bushes, but that type of resource isn't too often gathered. To create a special item for it? Not necessary. Furthermore, the blunt weapons are used to gather two resources (flint and stone) and axes also (wood and tinder);
- it was you who said that "If you want melee, then you have to suffer from range". True! Slow+powerful. Where's the problem in balance? Just hit and run and try to not run out of bullets;
- "You should be allowed to remain in ghost form and wait players out till you feel like selling your soul" - what do you mean?
- why not? I made even some items like rope and cloth to be dissassemblable in forge, because sometimes realizm shouldn't harm gameplay.

 

[Trenix_Decease]

- You shouldnt be allowed to remain in ghost form when a player kills you so you can wait them out, since you dont sell your soul to the devil. Said it wrong sorry.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Humm, but there aren't too big advantages of staying in ghost form. You move slow, see in reduced range and may be banished if close to enemy totem.
Or you mean the practice of disallowing the enemy to win by staying in ghost form, even when he has destroyed all your buildings? I should maybe remove all end-game congratulations. The game ends when players decide it ends.Or you have a better suggestion? I'm asking everyone.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

No patience anymore and really no time at all. I 'm shutting off the Change Tribe option and releasing the game as it is. That's it. More fixes - later.

 

[Trenix_Decease]

-The idea of not allowing the enemy to win by staying in ghost form.

I dont believe removing end-game triggers will fix that. Create a trigger which checks enemy players "main" units are dead, if so, then check if they have a ghost, then check to see if enemy player has a totem. If conditions are false, then allow victory for the surviving player.

Another thing... dropped increase in mana stone? Ehh.. the drop rate should be set to what it was before. To have a mana stone should be pretty much "luck". Why? Because having one is overpowering. I remember when they were almost impossible to find. Now you are able to harvest them? Thank god that you cant buy them anymore. Oh, and by the way, you just made it worse, getting mana stones are so much easier to get now.

-=More Suggestions=-

-Hunter should be able to pick up arrows after they are shot. For balancement, when you create an arrow, you should be only able to make 1 or 2 arrows instead of 15.

-Mana stones shouldnt be able to be mined. They are becoming too easy to be attained.

-Ammo for hunters and inventors should be stackable (arrows, black powder).

-Bones should drop from rabbits and raccoons, they are becoming too hard to get.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Important:
After all the mana stone drop is LESS than before.
It can be gathered at probability rate = 1 per 2 rock/ hard rock deposits, but cannot be bought anymore, except in Action Mode.
If you got many mana stones, it is only your luck, because they are now spawned only 3 per day for all the map (before it was 4 per day for the first week, then 2 per day).
Shaman's second level books do not require 2 mana stone anymore, but 1 mana stone and oil. That balances a bit his gross need of that resource and makes him do a little quest for finding oil. On the other hand, it makes the oil more used (before needed only by inventor and for crafting torches).

 

[Day-Elven]

I didn't notice the big difference in mana stone's drop) In 10 days of game time I and my friend got 2 arcanum for shaman (8 ms), warrior with full equipment (ms in axe - 1, armor - 2, gloves - 1, boots - 1), horse, 4 berry bushes. Altogether it's 18 mana stones. And we've destroyed no one rock. Isn't it too much?

 

[Trenix_Decease]

Yes, it is, thats what I've been trying to say, the normal drop rate is a bit too high. Also, you shouldnt even be able to gather them from stone, and if you are, it should be at least a 1% drop instead of a 10%. I actually normally get 1-3 mana stones per rock, not 1 mana stone per 2 rocks. A 10% drop is a big chance for a mana stone to drop, expecially for how many rocks drop from a stone.

 

[Day-Elven]

I get 1 mana per 2 rocks, as the map creator writed. 10% chance to get it / stones drop and 5 stones drops from 1 rock = 50% chance to get it from rock. You're just lucker =)
Rocks are ok, there isn't much of them on the map. But it's too easy to find mana stones with the normal random drop, as other resourse.

 

[gadina_prokleta]

Ok, you're right... I should lower its normal drop rate. By the way I have put some more pathing blockers on unreachable areas, trying to prevent spawning of resources there. I should have succeeded in that
If I set drop rate to 2 per day, that makes 28 per two weeks, 9 per tribe, or, more probable, as usually play only two tribes, 14 per tribe, BUT if they find all of them and if none of them have spawned in unreachable areas. Would it still be too much?