(6)Jungle Troll Fever - Jungle Trolls v0.3 (Classic)

[Kyrbi0]

Check out my thread for more info, including some background on this, as well as some Teasers for the future of the Jungle Trolls. : )

 

[deepstrasz]

Adapted for 1.31 with Map Adapter Some bugs might be because of this.

1. Generally you should find replacements for original races icons and models for custom stuff.
   
2. Boar Breeding and Domestication should have different icons. Also, Boar Breeding looks active. You can simply make it look passive with: Button Manager v1.8.2
3. Poison Cask doesn't seem to do anything.
4. Stranglethorn Darts says 0 enemies. The icon also has no DISBTN (looks like a green square on F10/game pause). The Button Manager linked above can make such an icon.
5. Blur Brew has a different icon after being researched. The buff has the Clarity Potion icon.
6. Hexxer has a spider linked to its origin. The troll has walk animations but the spider is just an unanimated effect.
7. No boars appear out of the Boar Hut.
8. Advanced Boar Breeding could use a different icon as upgrades have.
9. Jungle Dartmon's icon is unfitting.
10. Got a crash trying to use the Doc's last spell.
11. The upgrades in the Hunting Lodge are not properly placed. Feeding Frenzy for instance is on the spot where the Cancel icon will appear and will be moved to the left by this appearing icon.
12. Laceration doesn't work.
13. Null Ward has a Voidwalker model FX on it.
14. Myotoxin doesn't paralyze but just heavily slow. You'd do better making an Entangling Roots spell trigger.
15. Bombatiers seem like imbalanced troops. Siege Damage, high range and speed bonus without even requiring mana.
16. The Vampire Bat is invisible; probably a texture issue due to patch version difference.
17. Tracking doesn't seem to work, at least on neutral hostile units.

Waiting for author's comments.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Thanks for reviewing my babies. : )

I started to work on your suggestions & response, but I got halfway through before realizing I was fixing an older, non-working version. xD

Soooooo I put that on hold. Then I figured I owed you a response so you didn't think I was ignoring you. I will double-post when done. : )

 

[Kyrbi0]

Alright, finally getting around to finishing this:

First of all, I just want to be clear: I'm perfectly fine with this being sent off to Substandard. Not only because it's not The Best Work I've put out, but also because I'm only really willing to make so many changes to it (after all, the Real Deal is still in the pipeline; any time I spend updating this 9-year-old map I can't spend Actually Finishing!). Especially aesthetic stuff; I have no plans to make custom assets for something I've already replaced. Just wanted to be upfront about that.

So! On to the review & my responses:
===

1. Generally you should find replacements for original races icons and models for custom stuff.

Generally, sure. But this is the best I could do in 2011, and as mentioned aesthetic stuff just isn't a big priority right now (if it's even possible; do you know of a spider-riding Troll shaman on the Hive? ).

2. Boar Breeding and Domestication should have different icons. Also, Boar Breeding looks active. You can simply make it look passive with: Button Manager v1.8.2

8. Advanced Boar Breeding could use a different icon as upgrades have.

Fixed both of these.

3. Poison Cask doesn't seem to do anything.

Another "missing data field" (see #10 below); not sure why this didn't crash the game like the other two, though... Fixed.

4. Stranglethorn Darts says 0 enemies. The icon also has no DISBTN (looks like a green square on F10/game pause). The Button Manager linked above can make such an icon.

5. Blur Brew has a different icon after being researched. The buff has the Clarity Potion icon.

Whoops. Fixed these.

6. Hexxer has a spider linked to its origin. The troll has walk animations but the spider is just an unanimated effect.

Yep. It's silly but gets the job done in lieu of an actual model.

7. No boars appear out of the Boar Hut.

They do, it's just once every 4 minutes without upgrades. (I tested by setting it to 1 second & the screen was filled with Boars). Though to be honest, I'm giving that whole mechanic some serious thought...

9. Jungle Dartmon's icon is unfitting.

Well, it's the Berserker; while already being used by the Horde, it fits well enough (his face is wrapped with the Berserker.blp IIRC), and there really aren't any other good Jungle Troll icons.

10. Got a crash trying to use the Doc's last spell.

Holy cow, not again! I don't know what happened in the transition to Reforged, but both of my "ward" spells ended up with a missing "summoned unit" data field, resulting in crashes! WhiteWolf8 helped me find the Null Ward one... Alright, got that Fixed.

11. The upgrades in the Hunting Lodge are not properly placed. Feeding Frenzy for instance is on the spot where the Cancel icon will appear and will be moved to the left by this appearing icon.

I'm not sure if something changed with your "Map Adaptor", but it's @ (X,Y) of (2,2), keeping it out of the "Cancel" slot of (3,2). I also checked this in-game; everything works, so Fixed?

12. Laceration doesn't work.

17. Tracking doesn't seem to work, at least on neutral hostile units.

OK so I'm getting some game-crashing bugs trying to mess with that... I'm gonna work some more on that & get back to you.

13. Null Ward has a Voidwalker model FX on it.

Yep. : )

14. Myotoxin doesn't paralyze but just heavily slow. You'd do better making an Entangling Roots spell trigger.

It's intended not to "fully paralyze" but to heavily slow (which is consistent with one of the dictionary definitions). I have Fixed the tooltip to be more explicit about that, though.

15. Bombatiers seem like imbalanced troops. Siege Damage, high range and speed bonus without even requiring mana.

The idea with them was to modify the standard Batrider & sorta mimic the Zerg Guardian from Starcraft. Also, Swoop effectively disables their attack for the duration. Balance would have to be determined by play-testing.

16. The Vampire Bat is invisible; probably a texture issue due to patch version difference.

Might just be something up with your Adaptor again; Vampire Bat is definitely visible. (Not even sure what's up, since it has no custom texture).

===
Thanks again for your review.

 

[deepstrasz]

First of all, I just want to be clear: I'm perfectly fine with this being sent off to Substandard. Not only because it's not The Best Work I've put out, but also because I'm only really willing to make so many changes to it (after all, the Real Deal is still in the pipeline; any time I spend updating this 9-year-old map I can't spend Actually Finishing!). Especially aesthetic stuff; I have no plans to make custom assets for something I've already replaced. Just wanted to be upfront about that.

The important thing for this is for it to work, not look that different. While I mention visual stuff for polishing, it's not a priority or always necessary for approval.

Yep. It's silly but gets the job done in lieu of an actual model.

I guess it would be an easy model edit. I'll see if I can do something. If not, someone will surely be able to do it in Requests

They do, it's just once every 4 minutes without upgrades. (I tested by setting it to 1 second & the screen was filled with Boars). Though to be honest, I'm giving that whole mechanic some serious thought...

Weird. Could have been an adapter error. I played around 20 mins and nada, compadre.

Well, it's the Berserker; while already being used by the Horde, it fits well enough (his face is wrapped with the Berserker.blp IIRC), and there really aren't any other good Jungle Troll icons.

Simple to do. Just use Magos' or Retera's model editors and then BLPLab and the Button Manager. Maybe I'll give it a shot, who knows I need the model and its textures though. The map doesn't load in the editor after adapting. Same for the other models I mentioned that could be edited.

Yep. : )

Tell me some details on what you've imagined and I could try some ward model tweaking meself.

It's intended not to "fully paralyze" but to heavily slow (which is consistent with one of the https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paralyze]dictionary definitions[/url]). I have Fixed the tooltip to be more explicit about that, though.

Well, that link doesn't work and searching by myself didn't bring anything to light. However:
paralysis - Wiktionary

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EDIT:
Back with some more feedback.

1. Distort could use a passive looking icon.
2. Shrink has two (R) in its title.
3. The Headshrinker doesn't seem to have a projectile. Also, its walk speed is slow. Kind of dangerous.
   
4. Medicine Mon needs a proper icon: BTNShadowHunterBeta
5. Augury has an ability or something that says tooltip missing and it has the Samwise icon.
6. Grim Ward's spawn rate seems to be a bit too much.
7. Serpent Steel should look passive.
8. Maybe you could find replacements for the usual Warcraft III icons for mucho naisu aisthetikos.
9. Aspect of Hethiss isn't very impressive. It's a sort of Chemical Rage/Frenzy. Also it has double (R). It doesn't require mana and has a low cooldown.
10. Actually all the troll hero ultimates have the double (R) in their title.
11. Battle Charge=Scroll of Speed.
12. Primal Aura=Command Aura.
13. Flank doesn't work on sleeping units. Damage and stun is not dealt. Or do you necessarily need friendly units around for it to take effect?
    
14. I think you uploaded a test version since now there are some units and buildings for player 1 somewhere near the map's center.

EDIT2:
Added some icons for some models/units.

Dartmon

Spoiler

Viper

Spoiler

 

[Kyrbi0]

Thanks for the further analysis & especially for the help getting custom icons. : )

If you don't mind, can you divide up your feedback into "Necessary for Approval" & "Necessary for Substandard Approval"? It's getting a bit intense & I wanna organize my time most effectively.

 

[deepstrasz]

If you don't mind, can you divide up your feedback into "Necessary for Approval" & "Necessary for Substandard Approval"? It's getting a bit intense & I wanna organize my time most effectively.

I would like you to fix the bugs, that's all. Have the abilities working. Those that don't, of course.
I don't want this in Substandard.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Ok, so non-working abilities/bugs. Got it.

 

[Kyrbi0]

(Double-Post Alert)
Alright, I've updated it all the way through. All the game-breaking abilities you've mentioned should be fixed; I've resolved stuff like Flank's non-working damage/stun & the Boar-Food thing by simply stripping them out (unnecessary anyway). Aspect of Hethiss is totally reformulated to actually matter (gives Divine Armor), and all the custom icons are in place (thanks again; you are part of the Credits now). I have no plans on fixing the "double hotkey" thing as it's Reforged's fault & as aforementioned, this is an Alpha build that doesn't matter anymore so I don't care how it looks for little stuff like that. ^_^ Oh, and here's the fixed link to the dictionary definition of "paralysis" that I intended to reference earlier: Definition of PARALYSIS (TL;DR Paralysis can be whole or in part, complete or partial - I've modified the Basilisk's Myotoxin ability to reference that)

Tell me some details on what you've imagined and I could try some ward model tweaking meself.

Not 100% sure yet... It's a spider-rider that casts it, so something with a spider-web design on top might be neat. Something purple-y & evil-looking, with a "sucking in" SFX (since it's draining all the magic in an area, effectively).

===

Let me know how that looks. Hopefully sufficient for (substandard) approval. : )

 

[stein123]

I can make draw some icons if that helps you :0

 

[Kyrbi0]

I can make draw some icons if that helps you :0

I'd love to see some of your takes on Troll icons! However, as I've mentioned before, this map is a developmental "dead-end", so I'd rather you take a gander at this list of To-Do's & let me know. ; )

 

[deepstrasz]

(thanks again; you are part of the Credits now).

Oh, no, please. My scribbles aren't worth crediting.
Though, almost shed a tear when I saw them ingame.

1. Echolocation should look passive.
2. Feeding Frenzy needs a better description. OK, it changed after attacking to what it should be.
   
3. That Basilisk It's so green it can go chameleon with the grass tile. It looks like a hue change. Needs a nice texture. Actually, the normal hue looks good. Did you make it more like the grass on purpose?
   
4. Poison Cask is a green Goblin Mine with a Acid Bomb throw FX over it. I think it should only be that FX, no?
5. Mana Spring has Spirit Touch They use undead magic, eh?

Aspect of Hethiss is totally reformulated to actually matter (gives Divine Armor),

The problem with Divine Armour is that it only takes damage from Chaos Attack Type. Imagine that for 60 seconds, the Viper is immortal but not invulnerable.

Approved.

(previous comments: (6)Jungle Troll Fever - Jungle Trolls v0.3 (Classic))

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Writing what needs custom icons:

• Vampire Bat
• Training Log
• Jungle Bungalow
• Ritual Circle

EDIT: added the icons for the above mentioned.

Spoiler

They have icon borders, don't worry.
If you think they're useful, import them.

EDIT2: hey, what do you think about the Null Ward now? Check the video.
Left the team colour on the spider heads.
Model made from:
Web
webward
MonsterLure

 

[Kyrbi0]

That's a pretty nifty Ward, and definitely good enough for this build. : )

I'm gonna put this on the To-Do list, but I'll be honest it's going on a far-back burner as I get back to work on the current Troll build. (If anyone wants to open this up & stick those icons/ward models in, I'd gladly re-upload & credit you).

Thanks again!

 

[deepstrasz]

That's a pretty nifty Ward, and definitely good enough for this build. : )

Here you have it then.