Is existence governed by logic?

[The Reborn Devil]

It doesn't need to make sense to us to be right. There are many things in the universe that doesn't make sense (to us).

And here's a nice question to those who believe in God: If God created the Big Bang, who created God? He/She must have come from somewhere.

 

[Mulgrim]

It doesn't need to make sense to us to be right. There are many things in the universe that doesn't make sense (to us).

And here's a nice question to those who believe in God: If God created the Big Bang, who created God? He/She must have come from somewhere.

i'd say the logic of God is beyond the comprehension of human logic. so we don't (and can't) know

 

[raid1000]

Ya... about that.
~Elephants brains> Human brains
~Whale brains>Human brains
~Dolphin brains>Human brains

According to your logic, Elephants, Whales, and Dolphins are more 'freethinking' than we are. They are also smarter than us too...

//\\0o//\\

i was reffering to body size to brain size ratio
anyways i dont see dolphins and elephants building cold fusion reactors in the near future...

 

[The Reborn Devil]

i'd say the logic of God is beyond the comprehension of human logic. so we don't (and can't) know

Interesting answer, because I can use that against you
We can't (and will most likely never) know if God created the Big Bang. And there is no way we can say who or what created the Big Bang and who/what created the creator of the Big Bang and so on.

So to say it short: We don't know anything

 

[Mulgrim]

i know God exists but that's just me in 1/100 hivers :l

it's all about faith.

 

[raid1000]

there may be multiple gods not just one

 

[Mulgrim]

ok, on topic, don't turn this into a religion thread

 

[Boris_Spider]

i was reffering to body size to brain size ratio
anyways i dont see dolphins and elephants building cold fusion reactors in the near future...

My arguement still stands...

The reason dolphins and elephants don't build cold fusion reactors:
They aren't stupid enough to build them. Technology was meant to be an aid, not a replacement body.

//\\==//\\

 

[Kwah]

The problem is this. You are assuming that dolphins already have human like free will with which to make these decisions. They don't. Dolphins were not once super-smart then decided to become stupid because they realized their technology could harm them. The right chances, and the right pressures did not exist for them to evolve intelligence.

Technology was meant to be an aid, not a replacement body.

... and where are you getting this from? Technology as a whole doesn't have a singular goal, and cannot be generalized as such.

---

anyways i dont see dolphins and elephants building cold fusion reactors in the near future...

And on that note, neither will humans. Fusion is pretty much permanently the technology of the near-future.

---

And do NOT discuss religion further.

 

[Darkness-4ever]

...
/religion







Anyways, back to the question, can logic exist without an interpretor of what logic is?

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Anyways, back to the question, can logic exist without an interpretor of what logic is?

Yes. Stuff can exist even if no one understand it, or even know it exists.

 

[Boris_Spider]

The problem is this. You are assuming that dolphins already have human like free will with which to make these decisions. They don't. Dolphins were not once super-smart then decided to become stupid because they realized their technology could harm them. The right chances, and the right pressures did not exist for them to evolve intelligence.

... and where are you getting this from? Technology as a whole doesn't have a singular goal, and cannot be generalized as such.

Technology is the general term for anything humans use as tools. Tools are generally used to help make things easier.

So yes, technology has a goal.

A significant portion of 'civilized' present day societies would collapse without technology. We are entirely dependant upon it. Nearly all of us would die without it. What was a tool became a crutch, which became the 'body'.

What makes you think we "evolved intelligence?" We aren't the only species to build things, but we are the only species to build unnecesary things.

//\\==//\\

 

[Darkness-4ever]

What is and isn't necessary is relative. Such as vegans think it isn't necessary to eat meat, or industries don't think its necessary to care for the environment, or some mothers think getting vaccine and anti viral shots for their kids is unnecessary, what may be right for you may not be right for some, I'll stop there since I'm getting dangerously close to quoting Fred Flinstone.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

'tis probably been stated already, but if you question the existence of anything, you are surely existing. Though I don't think that was the answer you were looking for. Thread was TL;DR. You're talking about the becoming of existence and whether it was logical for that which exists today to become existent. Am I right? If so, I'd have to claim it was coincidence, because that is the only logical (ironically enough) reason for me, one who does not believe in the supernatural. That we exist and that we question existence is, and was, entirely an accident, according to my impression.

 

[A]mun]

I will quote Rene Descartes:

Cogito ergo sum. - I think therefore i am. - I am, i exist.

Imagination adds, subtracts, divides and multiplies what has been always there. Imagination can only be, because its bearer IS part in a universe, or whatever, which BECOMES (therefore the bearer, we, BECOME too). I know this sounds dualistic, to be or not to be, grow or shrink etc. but that's what i believe makes relativism and philosophy possible.

Einstein once said: "Would the moon be still there if no one would see it?"

Hard to answer, because at the moment i would like to say "We cannot know it, we will always have to risk a look(proven by empiricism)." but then i realise, that the moon is a piece of the whole universe. So if i can see the Jupiter, or any other planet in this solar system, i might start to combine what makes it even possible, that the Jupiter is there. Further on i would realise (like the ancient mayas, aztecs and so on) that there has to be an earth with a moon and sun as well, because without these parts of the solar system there would be no Jupiter in the present state. That's like the dualistic dynamic table of content in this whole existence "system". Existence seems to fade and recreate, we might be too slow to realise the whole orchestra, or see drums and guitar only (scienes does cut off things of the whole and analyse these for example), but at last we will realise that it all connects to something bigger. Seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling combines, thinking (consciousness, inner virtuality, memory, processing, identity, ability to reflect, left and right hemisphere) adds up, makes us harmonic and feeling happy, mostly... And we all seek to be happy.

Well it always takes time to combine HOW things work with WHY and WHAT does even work...

But there is one thing, i am worried about: Whatever we do, we will only understand parts of the whole, as long as we are bound to these senses i mentioned before.

"The whole is more than the sum of its parts." - Aristotle
(Or: The whole is something different than the sum of its parts. Also: The whole is a part of another whole, paradox.)

The famous cake example:

You have a cake. This cake might consist of strawberries and dough, sugar, whatever. You could maybe endlessly divide these things, the strawberry into atoms, or quarks or how small it can get, and so on. But what is more important is, that you could put these things together in ANOTHER way, creating something different out of the same parts.

So to come to an end: I can think, my thoughts are part of a whole. I am more than the sum of my parts, aswell as everything i can imagine. This relies on relativism and a dynamic framework of table of contents and is also dialactic or metaphysic, however one might call it. There is always a reason, a background, as well as a progression.

Logic however, is the way we approach these things, makes us understand. Balancing out what fits together and what not to make it harmonic. And there will always be things we don't understand, then again we will have to use logic and imagination. It's part of us, so it's part of the whole, so it's part of the identity of the universe. (I'd like to refer you to the Hermetic laws by this way: http://www.pjentoft.com/Hermetic_Laws.html)

 

[-SoulBurn]

Logic is a human concept. Without humans, there's no logic. Also, our reality depends on how we see it. So, everybody sees everything on it's own way, so, the awnser to that question depends on who's awnsering. What means there's no correct awenser, what means this thread will be just a place to conflicting opinions and no conclusion will come out of it.

 

[HINDYhat]

Jesus, what a useful post. Thanks for not answering anything at all with regards to the original post. I especially like how you've posted this more than 4 months after this thread became inactive.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I think logic is best thought in terms of toilets. It is made by man, needed by civilization, and shat all over every day much to our indifference, perhaps even content.

 

[Nimble]

@topic God is above logic, but in making us, he used logic {ie. I want to be worshipped so I'll create humans = logic}. Thus yes, we are beings of logic and come from logic and our existance is based on logic. Whether or not other planetary beings, if there are any, are based on logic is unknown.

 

[PurplePoot]

@topic God is above logic, but in making us, he used logic {ie. I want to be worshipped so I'll create humans = logic}. Thus yes, we are beings of logic and come from logic and our existance is based on logic. Whether or not other planetary beings, if there are any, are based on logic is unknown.

This assumes god. Supposing we do in fact assume a god, then should we not determine whether their existence is in turn governed by logic? Your definition is not all-encompassing even if the assumption holds.

 

[Nimble]

Of course. I am merely stating my thoughts. To round it up to those who assume there is no God: We don't know. We don't know all of other planets, therefore we cannot be sure. I do, however, think our planet and our lives so far are governed by logic.

 

[LiOneSS]

I think logic is best thought in terms of toilets. It is made by man, needed by civilization, and shat all over every day much to our indifference, perhaps even content.

 

[Dromlexer]

Einstein (or what he named =P) is like a god of the logic and technology. The famous painter and inventor Leonardo de Vinci was one of the smartest man and invented the "rolling war turtle" looking war vehicle.

The Roman's was the first which invented the toilet, before it's was newer and better. It needed (old) sewer system to transport the excrement out of the city/town. But it was a big risk of murdering the human which sits at the toilet by cutting in a harpoon in the body while the human sitting. Also the better toilet made no risk of murdering under the toilet. Safe Toilet

When Einstein made a important answers for the big logic problems and so he continued with logics of "problem and idea's" and it mean a success for the technology.

I know about there's many companies wanted to earn cash by Einstein's logic puzzles, questions and his logic games. And they marked about his logo which looks like his this picture:

Einsteins logo

At their articles.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Einstein (or what he named =P) is like a god of the logic and technology. The famous painter and inventor Leonardo de Vinci was one of the smartest man and invented the "rolling war turtle" looking war vehicle.

The Roman's was the first which invented the toilet, before it's was newer and better. It needed (old) sewer system to transport the excrement out of the city/town. But it was a big risk of murdering the human which sits at the toilet by cutting in a harpoon in the body while the human sitting. Also the better toilet made no risk of murdering under the toilet. Safe Toilet

When Einstein made a important answers for the big logic problems and so he continued with logics of "problem and idea's" and it mean a success for the technology.

I know about there's many companies wanted to earn cash by Einstein's logic puzzles, questions and his logic games. And they marked about his logo which looks like his this picture:

Einsteins logo

At their articles.

wat.

 

[PurplePoot]

Einstein (or what he named =P) is like a god of the logic and technology. The famous painter and inventor Leonardo de Vinci was one of the smartest man and invented the "rolling war turtle" looking war vehicle.

The Roman's was the first which invented the toilet, before it's was newer and better. It needed (old) sewer system to transport the excrement out of the city/town. But it was a big risk of murdering the human which sits at the toilet by cutting in a harpoon in the body while the human sitting. Also the better toilet made no risk of murdering under the toilet. Safe Toilet

When Einstein made a important answers for the big logic problems and so he continued with logics of "problem and idea's" and it mean a success for the technology.

I know about there's many companies wanted to earn cash by Einstein's logic puzzles, questions and his logic games. And they marked about his logo which looks like his this picture:

Einsteins logo

At their articles.

Are you MasterHaosis?

 

[Kwah]

I think at this point we can close this thread. And QFT, MSBB.

wat.