Philosophical Discussions on Government

[Swazi Spring]

I was having a debate with a friend of mine on whether or not human rights exist and if they do, where they come from. He argued that human rights do not exist and that they are artificial constructs that are created by governments. He argued that our rights are created by the government and without the government to protect said rights, they would not exist.

Conversely, I argued that our rights are natural and exist regardless of whether or not a particular government protects or disrespects these rights. As examples, I cited human sociology, namely natural self-preservation. This eventually led to me posing a philosophical question to him, which I would like to pose to you all as well.

Food for Thought
Have you considered that rather than being entities which grant freedoms, governments are instead entities that infringe upon them? Some governments have chosen to take precautions in order to best ensure that some rights are never infringed upon, a prime example being the United States Constitution.

While some argue that government isn't a natural body, let's assume for a minute that it is. Let's assume that the government is a natural organ that develops out of sapient societies, be this the United States or an African tribe, there is a system of organization, a government, if you will.

So I ask you, what is the natural purpose of this organ? Is it to control the people and constantly restrict them under the auspices of "keeping us safe" and/or people being "too stupid" to make their own decisions? Or does this organ exist solely to perform the necessary functions in order to ensure those who violate the three basic rights (life, liberty and property) are punished?


Feel free to pose any additional questions and/or statements on the role of government, whether or not it is natural or an artificial construct, etc.

 

[Zakamutt]

Government is a natural entity. I find this quite obvious, given that government keeps spontaneously developing all over.

Our laws, which determine our legal rights, come from crowd consensus and self-policing. In the end, this crowd consensus forms the basis of a well-functioning government.

If you want to speak of "rights" more broadly, you're presumably making moral judgements.

--

Also, freedom is overrated. In quite a few cases, stopping people from doing stupid shit makes sense and probably makes society better. Drawing the line can be difficult, and it's of course easier to just say fuck it and push for as much freedom as possible, giving no regard to reality and instead fighting an idealistic battle, obsessed with the concept of freedom.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't be free to do something, as long as it isn't stupid as fuck, though. Most of what really limits you is social control, not laws, anyway.

 

[fladdermasken]

Government is a natural entity. I find this quite obvious, given that government keeps spontaneously developing all over.

The only thing natural about that is propensity for bandwagon effects.

If you want to speak of "rights" more broadly, you're presumably making moral judgements.

You have all the rights you are willing to defend.

Also, freedom is overrated. In quite a few cases, stopping people from doing stupid shit makes sense and probably makes society better.

But in a society of laws you aren't free to do that. :/

Drawing the line can be difficult, and it's of course easier to just say fuck it and push for as much freedom as possible

How is that easier? The more reserved you are, the less you're putting yourself out there.

giving no regard to reality and instead fighting an idealistic battle, obsessed with the concept of freedom.

When drowning, you aren't obsessed with air because you desperately want to breathe.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't be free to do something, as long as it isn't stupid as fuck, though. Most of what really limits you is social control, not laws, anyway.

Now you're getting somewhere.

Let's talk consequence.

 

[Strikest]

Government "should" exist to solely to defend those three basic rights, but that is never the case these days... Nowadays I feel government exists to help corrupt politicians make money... At least in the U.S.

 

[Nuclear]

I would say government is quite natural thing. If the definition of government is simply a somewhat organized group of people, that seems to be how humans tend to group together. It's natural in the same way as wolf pack.