HybrisFactory - Terraining and Mapping Resources

[Celaquil]

What about alternate windows with transparent window glass?
And walls with window and doorway opening and doorway frames
without a black background?

I really love your windows, but somehow when used in terrain art, they look can look
awfully unrealistic with the plastered non-lit surface. I'd also love it if you reverted back
to having standalone lit windows, like I think I can remember was the case with the older
versions.

 

[Talavaj]

I'd also love it if you reverted back
to having standalone lit windows, like I think I can remember was the case with the older
versions.

They should still be there in the Standalone Models folder, I think lol.
I'll look into those, but it will affect the modularity a bit.
E.g you would need every type of wall with every type of window in it and stuff like that.

I am actually curious as to what site/mirror/code you will be using to display the add? Will it be directly through hive or through another service?

It will be through a third party affiliate network, the link will lead to the THW pastebin but may have a link locker in between which may or may not be hosted on my personal website. (depending on what are requirements of the ad platform)
The affiliate network will be the best one that I'll get accepted to honestly, and the type/form of the advertising you will see will depend on that.
I'm hoping it will get accepted on a proper platform, so that you see legit stuff, not ads for f2p poker and penis enlargement pills.
The high profile platforms are picky though, but I don't think it will be too much of an issue getting accepted in one.

- Cool. I'll start looking into that

 

[Deleted member 212788]

It will be through a third party affiliate network, the link will lead to the THW pastebin but may have a link locker in between which may or may not be hosted on my personal website. (depending on what are requirements of the ad platform)
The affiliate network will be the best one that I'll get accepted to honestly, and the type/form of the advertising you will see will depend on that.
I'm hoping it will get accepted on a proper platform, so that you see legit stuff, not ads for f2p poker and penis enlargement pills.
The high profile platforms are picky though, but I don't think it will be too much of an issue getting accepted in one.

- Cool. I'll start looking into that

Sounds good man, I am pretty sure you will get a good add deal though I will say that everytime I see one of the aforementioned adds I giggle and reminisce about the times they'd interrupt my movies on TV. Fun times.
P*nis propaganda aside, I wish you the best of luck with the add platform, hoping you get the best possible option available.

 

[Talavaj]

Yeah, some of the things are a bit shady. I'll put those shady things for people outside of THW.
I'll see how much time I'll be able to spend. If it will be enough, I may raise the bar a little higher so the assets can be used outside of wc3 as well.
I can't do commercial level assets in the amounts similar to what is contained in these packs but it can go higher.
Stone & Sword 2 ??

Initially I was just thinking of making the assets at Unity level, selling those and giving you the down scaled versions converted into wc3.
But, the competition for similar assets is extremely high already and it probably wouldn't be viable.

Also is this the kind of japanese stuff you had on mind ?

 

[Deleted member 212788]

Mostly yes. Though architecture varies from castle to castle and depending on the different periods in which they were built but as a whole yes, that's it.

 

[Celaquil]

You know, come to think of it, ornamental and standalone statues would be amazing.

One never gets enough statues for terraining!

 

[Talavaj]

What like, Stucco ornaments ? And what kinds of statues ?

 

[Celaquil]

Well, the exact look of them should be your design, not mine.

But I'm thinking ornamental the most, such as anything from wooden dragon carvings on
wooden houses, to gargoyle statues on sky-scrapers, you know, statues that make a
construction stand out. For standalone statues, well, there are already some of those.

 

[Talavaj]

Cool, I will look into this as soon as I finish texturing some 90 models for unity so they can sit on the store.
Or before, if I get sick and tired of doing that lol.

By the way, I tried a cool little website where you can upload and view models at. I will plop future previews there !

 

[mizi]

It is worth the wait！

 

[Deleted member 212788]

Hey man, it's been awfully quiet in this thread for some time now, anything new to tease us with? Maybe just a WiP screeny?

 

[Talavaj]

Working on Unity at the moment still, I have released some the models from the commission I did in the past. here:

Probably not useful for you, but you can download it for unity or in fbx/obj for Idk whatever you want.
I have got accepted into 3 CPA networks and the download from that video is demonstrating sponsored content, it is a bit intrusive but has high payouts and it is for random youtube traffic... so I don't care a whole lot lol.

The question is, would you like some of the future models to look closer to this maybe ? Or do you think it wouldn't fit with the rest that you have ?
I can port them to wc3 no problem, but the texture filesize would be larger and look slightly worse than in the video.
Obviously it wouldn't have the advanced materials.

You can see how it would look like in warcraft over here: https://sketchfab.com/models/737d21b8742c40a9a22c4c83d9340c38 just hit the "shadeless" option from the option in the bottom right corner.

 

[Celaquil]

I think they would be great additions to scenic terraining.

If you can spare the time, then by all means, please convert them

 

[Deleted member 212788]

I full-heartedly agree with Keiji. They would match everything else fantastically and offer more options, which is always a good thing.

On a side note, I really love your presentations, be it video or static imagery (thumbnail of the video, your previously posted images showcasing the assets, very neat stuff.)

 

[Talavaj]

Updated Modular Kingdom with some cargo/port doodads as well as some camping models that were not previously finished.
Total of 10 new props like the ones below.

I'll also go through modular shire if any WIPs need finishing and I'll release those too.
This will mark the final release and end of support for Stone&Sword Manor, Kingdom and Shire.
The packs will remain up as legacy downloads, but will receive no further updates from now on, unless critical bugs/errors will be encountered. Alternate texture packs may still be a possibility.

All the requested features (like transparent windows, desert/snowy doodads and asian props) will be pushed into the S&S "2" release and will be given priority over the existing models.
I added the requested features to the OP so I can keep an eye on it conveniently, if you think of anything else to add let me know !

 

[Strydhaizer]

Those new props :3

Anyway, can you list down all the new models you have included on the new version? I already uploaded the old stuffs on my map and it is quite confusing to identify the new stuffs.

 

[Talavaj]

Sure !
This is all the stuff that was added.
Also, I have reviewed if there is anything missing from Shire but it doesn't seem so.
Thus I'll be proceed to the new generation packages right away, I won't be updating the legacy packages anymore. I'll post screenies of the new release over time as usual.

 

[Remixer]

God damnit I was going to create a map with Blizzard resources and now you got me confused again

EDIT:
What are you doing/planning of doing next for the pack? What is this "S&S2" you mentioned?

I was interested if you were planning of doing the ground tiles? If you are not doing them (anytime soon) can you recommend any other HQ ground tiles that could fit with these models?

EDIT 2:
Have you thought of adding units (HQ skins/models)? What about attachments (items) like swords and armours that units could wear?

 

[Talavaj]

--

A- S&S 2 is a random name for a remaster of the original pack.
Intention is to slowly phase out the old resources with optimized Unity3D-grade assets.
Shire is fine and probably will be remastered last, or only updated with better textures. But some of the older things, notably the building pieces and some props hurt my eyes too much now so they will get replaced.

Like so:

B - I will make ground tiles for most of the Shire themes yes. For now Idk, I would try NanO's tiles.

C - Units, no unfortunately. Too much time spent making them + not very reusable. One of the reasons why I'm remaking the old packs is because I can sell the full source files on Unity asset store and Unreal marketplace.

D - Items and attachments, possibly. If there will be demand, very easy to make.

 

[Remixer]

A- S&S 2 is a random name for a remaster of the original pack.
Intention is to slowly phase out the old resources with optimized Unity3D-grade assets.
Shire is fine and probably will be remastered last, or only updated with better textures. But some of the older things, notably the building pieces and some props hurt my eyes too much now so they will get replaced.

Like so:

B - I will make ground tiles for most of the Shire themes yes. For now Idk, I would try NanO's tiles.

C - Units, no unfortunately. Too much time spent making them + not very reusable. One of the reasons why I'm remaking the old packs is because I can sell the full source files on Unity asset store and Unreal marketplace.

D - Items and attachments, possibly. If there will be demand, very easy to make.

Thanks for the information, as I am now on the hilltop, I might roll any direction. I am now thinking if there is enough high quality resources to create a complete map with un-breaking atmosphere. I will ask about the attachments later as I just get everything else fixed (units/items/spells).

So you have no plans on making the ground tiles yet? But you will make them, that seems okay since I can import the final textures later on.

About the remastered models/textures. What does this mean? Are you going to remake the models/textures with even higher quality than they are now. If so, I'd like to know if you have concrete plans on which you do first? You said you're gonna remake some building materials so it seems pointless to build anything right now since I must later on redo everything then, right?

I'm currently now able to reach Warcraft III nor your resources at the moment but I have downloaded them before and I have this thought that you had some good looking environmental objects as well (trees, stones etc.) Are you planning to remaster them as well?

 

[Talavaj]

I'd like to know if you have concrete plans on which you do first? You said you're gonna remake some building materials so it seems pointless to build anything right now since I must later on redo everything then, right?

Tiles I won't make yet because I have to pair them with the doodads, which means I have to make those first to be able to make them go well together. But yes, you can easily just import tiles later and they should fit well.

I'll start upgrading the original walls/windows/roofs first. The environment models will probably only get updated textures and more models for extra environmental detail.
In theory you should be able to simply replace the imports in your manager, the models will keep their forms and scale so they should be able to update without messing up your stuff much.
If anything, the default scaling will change because the original Modular Manor doodads were too small.
But it will be easy to simply go back and reset the scale, much easier than rebuilding everything at least.
Though one warning, if you are making an online project the remaster may bite you in the ass because the filesize is going to be significantly larger. Even optimized, some of the upgraded models can have anywhere from 25 to 100 times larger texture surfaces.

I would start if I was you, the update is more of a long term goal, while I will update the models over time certain requests may take priority.
For example I may first make models that have been requested before but have never been added, then upgrade the crappiest of the legacy models, then make some more requests, then upgrade the less crappier models and so on.
But yes, building parts (stuff from modular manor) are likely to be remade first because they by far the lowest quality doodads.

 

[Remixer]

Tiles I won't make yet because I have to pair them with the doodads, which means I have to make those first to be able to make them go well together. But yes, you can easily just import tiles later and they should fit well.

I'll start upgrading the original walls/windows/roofs first. The environment models will probably only get updated textures and more models for extra environmental detail.
In theory you should be able to simply replace the imports in your manager, the models will keep their forms and scale so they should be able to update without messing up your stuff much.
If anything, the default scaling will change because the original Modular Manor doodads were too small.
But it will be easy to simply go back and reset the scale, much easier than rebuilding everything at least.
Though one warning, if you are making an online project the remaster may bite you in the ass because the filesize is going to be significantly larger. Even optimized, some of the upgraded models can have anywhere from 25 to 100 times larger texture surfaces.

I would start if I was you, the update is more of a long term goal, while I will update the models over time certain requests may take priority.
For example I may first make models that have been requested before but have never been added, then upgrade the crappiest of the legacy models, then make some more requests, then upgrade the less crappier models and so on.
But yes, building parts (stuff from modular manor) are likely to be remade first because they by far the lowest quality doodads.

Thank you for the info. So the shape of the models won't change (building models)? The anvil you used as example did change shape so I was concerned if everything else did too. Glad to hear not.

The problem with leaving the environmental models not high priority is that I can't start doing environment unless I have all the models ready, otherwise it will look like some places are more decorated and have more detail than the others, which is even worse. I guess I can start making the structures first though.

 

[Talavaj]

Environmental models won't change too drastically, it should be safe to use the current ones. Grass and rocks will change forms though, completely different workflow for those.

I can't guarantee all building models will stay the same. Most notably windows will work differently and roofs may have more shapes, but the old shape of roofs should stay intact.

 

[Deleted member 212788]

Environmental models won't change too drastically, it should be safe to use the current ones. Grass and rocks will change forms though, completely different workflow for those.

I can't guarantee all building models will stay the same. Most notably windows will work differently and roofs may have more shapes, but the old shape of roofs should stay intact.

I'm a bit pressed for time so I'll keep my question short, are you going to be drastically changing poly count? Asking since Wc3 maps do tend to bug out when an enormous amount of polies are on the screen at the same time. Has not happened to me personally but I've been told it was happening with several hundred of thousands or something along those lines. Don't quote me on the numbers since I heard them probably a year ago.

 

[Talavaj]

That has to do with skinned vertices, it doesn't really do anything with inanimate models.
I have run the game with 6 million or so polygons before to no ill effects.

That being said, the polycounts aren't really gonna change drastically. Maximum of 3 to 4 times more triangles. Some models may have about the same or even lower polycounts than the older ones.
It is only the texture resolution that is going to change, performance wise there should be no significant differences, it may be around the same or cheaper performance wise because the new models are going to use texture atlases instead of the old tiny textures that could end up being as many as 6 materials per model.

 

[Remixer]

That has to do with skinned vertices, it doesn't really do anything with inanimate models.
I have run the game with 6 million or so polygons before to no ill effects.

That being said, the polycounts aren't really gonna change drastically. Maximum of 3 to 4 times more triangles. Some models may have about the same or even lower polycounts than the older ones.
It is only the texture resolution that is going to change, performance wise there should be no significant differences, it may be around the same or cheaper performance wise because the new models are going to use texture atlases instead of the old tiny textures that could end up being as many as 6 materials per model.

Does your models such as street lamps have animation to turn them on/off? Currently I use a system where you can interact with certain doodads to turn them on/off?

I also have a kind of a request: it is an environmental doodad a big rock/stone with very vertical wall so I can make steep cliff sides easier. Also do you have an archway model?

 

[Talavaj]

Does your models such as street lamps have animation to turn them on/off? Currently I use a system where you can interact with certain doodads to turn them on/off?

Lamps, chests, windows and window shutters can be closed/opened and lit up.
There are small archways yes, but not big stand-alone ones.

Cliffs and bigger rocks I will make, yes.

 

[Remixer]

Lamps, chests, windows and window shutters can be closed/opened and lit up.
There are small archways yes, but not big stand-alone ones.

Cliffs and bigger rocks I will make, yes.

Good to hear, does S&S have custom water planes/textures? What about waterfalls?

 

[Talavaj]

Water is super expensive for either computing or filesize.
There are three ways you can make water, either one that is too ugly to be used, one that will crash your display driver in 5 minutes or one that weighs 40 megabytes.
Waterfalls, could be made in the future.

The too-ugly-to-be-used water looks like this. You can simulate shorelines with some material blending but it will look like crap.

 

[Remixer]

Okay, currently I'm using blizzard water and I'll guess I stick to it.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Have you experimented with CreateImage() based water on alpha tiles?

I personally use a mixture of shallow WC3 default water (for animatiosn and waves and tinting) and alpha tiles (with a mirrored skybox for reflections), as this has a very low performance impact and doesn't require any code or destructables/doodads.
You just have to be wary not to make the water too deep, or it will become intransparent.

The problem are smooth coastal regions, because the more shallow the water, the stronger the reflection looks - which is basicly exactly the opposite of what would happen in nature.
I could imagine that this could be greatly improved by adding a semi-transparent ground image on the alpha tile, to create the illusion of depth. Basicly, have an image that has a smooth transition from intransparent (sand texture) to completely transparent (alphaed).

 

[Paillan]

Have you experimented with CreateImage() based water on alpha tiles?

I personally use a mixture of shallow WC3 default water (for animatiosn and waves and tinting) and alpha tiles (with a mirrored skybox for reflections), as this has a very low performance impact and doesn't require any code or destructables/doodads.
You just have to be wary not to make the water too deep, or it will become intransparent.

The problem are smooth coastal regions, because the more shallow the water, the stronger the reflection looks - which is basicly exactly the opposite of what would happen in nature.
I could imagine that this could be greatly improved by adding a semi-transparent ground image on the alpha tile, to create the illusion of depth. Basicly, have an image that has a smooth transition from intransparent (sand texture) to completely transparent (alphaed).

What do you mean by mirrored skybox? a skybox that shows sky under terrain?

Maybe using shadows. Water is a big ass problem on warcraft. But why not use the alpha tile instead of an alpha image?

 

[Talavaj]

I feel that is the best way to make efficient water in wc3 yeah. I make water similar way in memento mori except I use my own mesh like the one above with some stacked planes to fake volumetric transparency.

For the less reflective surfaces, I just use about 0.25 transparent ground tile at the bottom of the water and a low resolution gradient with neutral color just under that layer to mask spots I don't want to be see through.
I have abandoned trying to mess with the surface texture of the water itself, instead I place debris, foam, wetmaps and various things on it to make it seem like water.

Tried to make something similar to Silent Hill 3 here.

 

[Remixer]

I thought of (actually I tried) using alpha tile but the problem occurs that the shorelines look absolutely horrible when the sky just starts to display at some point (as my map has a lot of shoreline that slowly sinks under water).

Also there are a lot of areas in my map where the water is more like muddy instead of crystal-clear-reflecting pure water. This makes it trouble some.

However, I thought I could use normal blizzard water and add some transparent planes there to allow even shallow water have more depth. Don't know yet how this is going to play out but I think I am sticking with Blizzard water without alpha tiles (one should never use alpha tile if the tiles edges are covered with some doodads) (e.g. I hate the new Gaias retaliation alpha tile usage since it looks horrible (sorry)).

Also I think using alpha tile is good solution only when put to the maximum (reflecting every single detail from the ground (rocks/shrub...) however in my map this way would take way too much effort and possibly turn out to be impossible to create.

Talavaj, how hard would it be for you to make a square shaped around 15-30% transparent doodad (preferably with many layers so I can use just one object to eventually turn the view into 0% transparency)? (similar to water plane that a lot of people use).

As I have played many maps a lot of them neglect decorating water, so I have also thought (now that I moved to custom resources) of using dust clouds etc. like moving sand under water to make it look turbid and dull. As I now said it, does S&S have cloud models of some kind (and custom light effects/sources without a visible model)?

With these objects I could probably turn the water areas look stunning. I must figure out a way to make blizzard water a bit more transparent however.

This is close to what I want: The deeper parts are completely cloudy and not transparent. But some parts are clear and shallow. This would also allow to decorate certain parts of the water and e.g. make some vine sink/descent/disappear to the cloudy water.

 

[Talavaj]

There should be some volumetric lights, and some splashes I think in shire. I'm not sure if the volumetric lights are anywhere now that I think about it.
I will make more of similar effects for the new pack.

And yeah I can make something like that, but not sure what you wanna use it for ? If you wanna use it for simulating depth or something it would probably be better to make it gradient.

 

[Remixer]

There should be some volumetric lights, and some splashes I think in shire. I'm not sure if the volumetric lights are anywhere now that I think about it.
I will make more of similar effects for the new pack.

And yeah I can make something like that, but not sure what you wanna use it for ? If you wanna use it for simulating depth or something it would probably be better to make it gradient.

Explained above now? With the plane (if I can colour it in editor) I can make very dramatic changes in the water quickly, also with it I could colour the white/grey clouds beneath it. Also allows me to add hues to the Blizzard water that I can't achieve by changing the water tinting colour itself.

What the hell is gradient? =D

 

[Strydhaizer]

Water is super expensive for either computing or filesize.
There are three ways you can make water, either one that is too ugly to be used, one that will crash your display driver in 5 minutes or one that weighs 40 megabytes.
Waterfalls, could be made in the future.

The too-ugly-to-be-used water looks like this. You can simulate shorelines with some material blending but it will look like crap.

Looks like a solid ice to be honest

 

[Talavaj]

Daimn ! Yeah it could totally be used as an ice tile lol.

@Remixer
Yeah, gradient in this case is a transition in between colors. If I made a transparent square it would show seams if you stacked it on each other.
Sphere or a cylinder wouldn't, I'll make you some.

 

[Paillan]

So at the end volumetric objects give the sensation of depth?

 

[Talavaj]

Kind of, yes. They create illusion of volume, the wc3 fog is volumetric. The more it is stacked the less see through it is.
You can make models that fake such property by stacking see through materials on each other.

Like these lights.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

However, I thought I could use normal blizzard water and add some transparent planes there to allow even shallow water have more depth. Don't know yet how this is going to play out but I think I am sticking with Blizzard water without alpha tiles (one should never use alpha tile if the tiles edges are covered with some doodads) (e.g. I hate the new Gaias retaliation alpha tile usage since it looks horrible (sorry)).

I know what you mean; I don't like the look either; but it's better than the default. Water has always been the weakest spot of terraining (at least when you want playable terrain).
And Doodad water is just awful for many reasons.

Btw, I just checked and created images can actually be drawn on top of water. Do you think that could help? I think this could at least fix the "blocky fog of war" issue we have with doodad water.

 

[Remixer]

I did not quite understand what you meant by that image drawing thing, a picture could help maybe?

Also, I think basic water is better than using alpha tile incorrectly or not well, (In gains the clouds look absolutely ridicilous, also the sand in partly transparent which makes the white alpha tile (it looks white when the sand blocks it) really power up the sand edges and you clearly see what is going on).

@at Talavaj, if you could can you show me with pictures what difference the partly transparent models can do (gradient and planes) and which can create the best effect maybe?

 

[Paillan]

What about a water model? why not use that?

 

[Remixer]

What about a water model? why not use that?

It is bad for various reasons:

Fog of war really messes it up, the animation sucks and it creates visible "layers" to the shore areas.

 

[Paillan]

There was a tutorial around here where those looked pretty neat.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I did not quite understand what you meant by that image drawing thing, a picture could help maybe?

Also, I think basic water is better than using alpha tile incorrectly or not well, (In gains the clouds look absolutely ridicilous, also the sand in partly transparent which makes the white alpha tile (it looks white when the sand blocks it) really power up the sand edges and you clearly see what is going on).

@at Talavaj, if you could can you show me with pictures what difference the partly transparent models can do (gradient and planes) and which can create the best effect maybe?

Believe me, I know the flaws. But it's better than the default water; at least for me.
People have different tastes after all.

What if instead of modifying the water, we actually modify the skybox? We can freely add elements into the box, after all; adding volumetric intransparencies would be pretty simple and could create a neat effect.

 

[Remixer]

Believe me, I know the flaws. But it's better than the default water; at least for me.
People have different tastes after all.

What if instead of modifying the water, we actually modify the skybox? We can freely add elements into the box, after all; adding volumetric intransparencies would be pretty simple and could create a neat effect.

Yeah but the idea of alpha tile is that you can place objects below the ground giving nice effect that way.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Yeah but the idea of alpha tile is that you can place objects below the ground giving nice effect that way.

Yeah, but alpha tile and objects below the ground is ... problematic, as you know. Hence why I suggest using the skybox instead.

 

[Talavaj]

Random questions, would you prefer the updated walls to be double sided, one sided or be available in both versions ?

Also, feel free to suggest anything not on this list or suggest which ones of these should be granted priority over the others.

• Rain, rain effects, splashes.
• Hay roofs, hay huts.
• Ruins and dilapidated environments.
• Terrain tilesets.
• Towers, defensive structures and castle related doodads.
• Vines and roots.
• Water torrents, waves.
• ♦ Swampy and Desert plants and environments.
• ♦ Cave environments, bigger rocks and cliff models.
• ♦ More winter related doodads.
• Nautical doodads.
• Smaller doodads to hide seams with.
• Asian themed Doodads.
• Statues and Ornaments.
• ♦ See through windows.

♦ - On current "to-do" list

 

[Celaquil]

Rain, roots and water effects.

Those are basically what we near-to-completely lack any good variations of for scenic
terraining. And getting our hands on some quality items of those kinds might go a long
way to improve scenic terraining.