How to optimise my modding?

[Swibbey]

It's been a while since I last messed around in the editor, when I was just working through learning about the editor and building terrain and was fairly unaware of all the powerful utilities that had been created to help modders make awesome stuff. Now, however, I have been browsing Hive, looking for ways to really produce a high quality map, but due to more than a decade of knowledge being piled up on here, the information overload is a little bit unnerving, and somewhat confusing.

In short, I am looking for a utility / method to help me in making unique terrain, work with JASS/vJASS (to be honest this is still very confusing to me) and in general provide a powerful scope of utility around the editor that doesn't force me to be bound by the vanilla editor.

 

[LordDz]

WarCraft III Tutorials

Scripting:
[Release] WurstScript - A Wurst to Jass Compiler & IDE

 

[Dr Super Good]

One way to generate unique terrain would be to construct it entirely out of walkable models. Now that the map file size limit is 128MB this approach should even be multiplayer viable. If one budgets 32MB for terrain geometry/textures and want to fill a 480*480 map (far bigger than any map should ever be) that gives 2kB per 4*4 tile terrain chunk which is more than enough for some quite fancy geometry.

 

[A]mun]

^ do you have some examples for that?

 

[Dr Super Good]

^ do you have some examples for that?

I think the one director cut campaign used it. Also that famous Diablo III map did something similar but it still had terrain hiding under the models.

 

[Xonok]

Occasionally I start looking at resources on the hive for no good reason and it ends up demotivating me, because I can't figure out a way to use any amount of them properly.
The way I beat that is that I start by working on whatever project I actually have at hand and then only look for specific kinds of resources when I feel the need.
For instance, I'm currently terraining a 256x256 map and for that I wanted some more tree variation. I searched for trees only and ignored everything that I wouldn't use immediately. The logic here being that if I won't use it now, then it's not worth my attention today.
tl;dr - Have an idea in mind, look for resources that fit this idea. Don't look at resources when you don't know what you actually want to do.

 

[Swibbey]

And any external 3rd party resources, like Sharpcraft (not that I really know what it is) / Ultimate Terraining Map? Because I am pretty confused by some of the descriptions of these tools and dont want to have to download something, then not like it and have to commit to a re-install of War3 (My pc is pretty bad) because I don't know how to uninstall it properly etc because I am new to modding

 

[Xonok]

Mostly what you need is JNGP. With the newest patch I'm not sure if the version that I use works, but I've seen a new one that has similar functionality.
SharpCraft is powerful, but it's difficult to use. A safe bet here would be to say that if you don't know how you'd use SharpCraft, you don't actually need it.
Ultimate Terraining Map is useful, but I've seen only outdated ones. I tried using it at one point, but the sheer amount of information overwhelmed me, so I decided that I would instead stick to simplistic terrain with the models that the editor has. I sometimes use other resources, but only if I feel that there is no way I can do without them.
Overall I feel that it's best to gradually build up a collection of resources that you are very familiar with and just keep using them.
It's better to be good at using a few tools than mediocre at using many.

 

[Swibbey]

Mostly what you need is JNGP....

And are there tutorials surrounding this tool? As much as I really do like fleshing my knowledge out myself, having a handy tutorial aside to explain some advanced mechanics is always nice!

 

[Xonok]

It's a modified version of the normal editor. A lot of the functionality is in the menus and you'll figure it out just by looking at it.
It also allows using vJASS, which is a scripting syntax similar to the one the game uses. There are loads of tutorials for vJASS, although I learned it by converting triggers from GUI.

I use this version, but with a manually updated JassHelper.

 

[WaterKnight]

The best tool is oneself These tools are written to simplify work, streamline it, eliminating errors but in order to get the best out of it, of course you should have an understanding of the fundamentals, at least those that leak through (see The Law of Leaky Abstractions). You just have to take your time, fiddle with problems, use and verify the sources of information and educate yourself in general. Sure, there is a lot of information but you are also spared from a lot of reverse engineering nowadays. Get to know the low-level and common elements of the platform (wc3) to comprehend and build higher structures. It fails me how many mapmakers have never seen a map archive or, as you said, know about textual map scripts, which most of a map's content consists of.

 

[Swibbey]

The best tool is oneself These tools are written to simplify work, streamline it, eliminating errors but in order to...

I agree, which is why I like to work out the intricacies of things myself, and attain my own understanding. It's just that I was originally around in the days before any of these systems had even been created, and everything was still being reverse engineered. I spent a lot of time building a map once, trying to make some kind of campaign I think, that I really learned a lot from, so I'm at the level of a novice that is needing to start on the more advanced things that these external resources provide (like vJass and non-vanilla editing practices)

to fill a 480*480 map (far bigger than any map should ever be).

Is it possible to make a map with that surface area?

 

[Xonok]

Technically you could with JNGP, but actually using so much terrain is hard for the ordinary mapper.
For instance, I've spent over 8 hours on terraining a 256x256 map and am perhaps about 70-80% done. A lot of this map is water.
A 480x480 map is 3.5 times the surface area. That'll be around 30 hours of work minimum just for the terrain at my level, which isn't the level that the best terrainers have. They'll probably need more time for the true masterpieces.
Another thing to keep in mind for large maps is that all the doodads and destructibles will take a toll eventually, so whatever method you use for terraining must be quite efficient.

 

[WaterKnight]

Afaik the 480x480 or bigger than normal maps are not supported in their entirety. I remember like a terrain pathing problem with them. But more than that, I would think you will run into performance issues if you plan to integrate high level stuff, customizing everything as that dimension alone takes its toll. It would require initialization on demand techniques and then the question arises if keeping a smaller map with dynamically generated content could not do the same for you. Anyway, of course you can start out with a smaller map and extend it later on.

About gameplay experience, size does not matter moreover so, it might not even make sense to oversize things. Depending on your audience, public gamers do not have the attention span or want to commit to 10h maps, nor do I for the most part.

 

[Swibbey]

My thinking / desire behind this isn't so much for the experience of others, although at some point it may be viable. At the moment I just want to follow through with an idea I have (more a challenge that will provide significant learning capacity) that would require an extensively large map. Obviously if it causes issues that would cause the map to be unplayable at all then it is foolish to continue, but if not, then I don't see a reason as to why I shouldn't peruse it. Especially now that map size can be 100mb+

 

[Xonok]

The part that is not supported for 480x480 maps is blight. I haven't heard of anything else breaking.

One thing to consider is whether you are making this map for yourself or players. For a personal project many limits do not matter. For instance, if you have a better than average computer, your map won't lag as easily for you as it will for others.