[General] Introduction to Map Making... For my kids

[JCarrill0]

Hey Guys, I've been around here now for nearly a decade (or 2) and I've always loved Map making. I generally stick to the basics, I never really tried to push beyond the limits of what can be done, since I know stuff is always changing and I hate it when my maps break due to updates. I learned this back when I made Starcraft BW Maps.

My kids over the past week been really getting back into Warcraft 3, and they always loved to play with the World Editor, and Ive tried showing them what is best when it comes to balance.
They always make maps and want to have fun, but get frustrated since they don't understand balance vs overpowered (aka IMBA map making).
I was browsing the tutorials section and was curious to know if anyone had time to direct this post in the right direction for my kiddos to read/lookup for beginner map making. Perhaps they could even be better then me someday lol (it wouldn't take long)

PS - I Donated $100 to you guys. I love this site when it comes to Warcraft 3, You guys are amazing!

 

[Wrda]

Hi there!
The most important is that they like to create maps and and want to have fun, they don't need to rush everything at once. Everything comes with time and resilience.
I don't know what the context of balance here is, but in order to have a sense of that, they need to play many maps, good and bad ones, they need to make more maps, play them in several perspectives analyze (not in a detailed way) how much effort it takes to accomplish some tasks, how something is delivered. You can also give input on their maps, appreciating the good ideas, and telling them if they've considered something else which seems even better , while also challenging some parts which you think require work. But this should probably come after they somewhat mastered some areas in the World Editor.
You know, some of my very first maps were basically melee with lots of items, I had no idea that object editor, sound editor, and trigger editor existed! I wondered how people made custom units and rest, until I looked on top of the screen......and then the fun began.
I don't know how long your kids have been messing around with the editor, but what I did was looking at every field of units, buildings, heroes and items and trying them out and figuring out, well, most of them. Since there are thousands of abilities, I just had to try them only when I needed, you know, those with a lot of fields and complexities.
Specifically for units: The Unit Editor Fields
But has also good tutorials, but I would really only advice your kids to read them if they already have a good grasp on world editor. I think it teaches them resilience, independecy, attempting to think out of the box (even if later these tutorials provide even a better solution or idea). Also remember that they can always try to open other people's map and see how they did something, it's never a bad idea to see how things were approached by different people. I think you should only ask for help if you have no clue how to fix, how to do something, after thinking of all possibilities that came from your mind. In order to learn, you have to fail several times, because if you just successed without failing, it was by chance and thus learned nothing.
But then, there will be a time where you have a knowledge barrier, for me it was about leaks, memory leaks. There was absolutely no way for me to know that on World Editor, since nothing indicates the existence of that, for someone who's not a programmer. And I came across that because one of my maps had the classic long black screen, and I wondered why. There's were you're also going to do some investigation on your own.
Things That Leak
Memory Leaks
Again, if your children are very new to the world editor, I wouldn't advice reading tutorials yet, specially these last two, they will only confuse and freak them out and they won't learn it well. Everything takes time.
The tips I can say are: allow negative values on object editor ---> on file > preferences > general. Also automatically create unknown variables while pasting trigger data;
units with missile (splash) type and with orb item crashes the game;
Spellbooks work unique oddly way;
Some spells can't have negative values;
Spells with periodic intervals can't have 0s on it, else it will freeze game and crash.

 

[JCarrill0]

Hi there!
The most important is that they like to create maps and and want to have fun, they don't need to rush everything at once. Everything comes with time and resilience.
I don't know what the context of balance here is, but in order to have a sense of that, they need to play many maps, good and bad ones, they need to make more maps, play them in several perspectives analyze (not in a detailed way) how much effort it takes to accomplish some tasks, how something is delivered. You can also give input on their maps, appreciating the good ideas, and telling them if they've considered something else which seems even better , while also challenging some parts which you think require work. But this should probably come after they somewhat mastered some areas in the World Editor.
You know, some of my very first maps were basically melee with lots of items, I had no idea that object editor, sound editor, and trigger editor existed! I wondered how people made custom units and rest, until I looked on top of the screen......and then the fun began.
I don't know how long your kids have been messing around with the editor, but what I did was looking at every field of units, buildings, heroes and items and trying them out and figuring out, well, most of them. Since there are thousands of abilities, I just had to try them only when I needed, you know, those with a lot of fields and complexities.
Specifically for units: The Unit Editor Fields
But has also good tutorials, but I would really only advice your kids to read them if they already have a good grasp on world editor. I think it teaches them resilience, independecy, attempting to think out of the box (even if later these tutorials provide even a better solution or idea). Also remember that they can always try to open other people's map and see how they did something, it's never a bad idea to see how things were approached by different people. I think you should only ask for help if you have no clue how to fix, how to do something, after thinking of all possibilities that came from your mind. In order to learn, you have to fail several times, because if you just successed without failing, it was by chance and thus learned nothing.
But then, there will be a time where you have a knowledge barrier, for me it was about leaks, memory leaks. There was absolutely no way for me to know that on World Editor, since nothing indicates the existence of that, for someone who's not a programmer. And I came across that because one of my maps had the classic long black screen, and I wondered why. There's were you're also going to do some investigation on your own.
Things That Leak
Memory Leaks
Again, if your children are very new to the world editor, I wouldn't advice reading tutorials yet, specially these last two, they will only confuse and freak them out and they won't learn it well. Everything takes time.
The tips I can say are: allow negative values on object editor ---> on file > preferences > general. Also automatically create unknown variables while pasting trigger data;
units with missile (splash) type and with orb item crashes the game;
Spellbooks work unique oddly way;
Some spells can't have negative values;
Spells with periodic intervals can't have 0s on it, else it will freeze game and crash.

Truth, right now they are having fun messing with it. The unit editor is by far their favorite area to play with lol

 

[Uncle]

Maybe you could make them some beginner maps with examples of basic game logic.

For example, teach them how to create a Region and how to create a trigger that detects when A unit enters said region.

I know when I was a kid and messing around with Wc3 my first few triggers were things like Teleporters (Move unit from Region A to Region B).

Then I learned how to make a custom triggered ability which was a struggle. For the longest time I was using "A unit begins casting an ability" as the Event when in reality I wanted "A unit starts the effect of an ability".

A simple example:
When a unit casts the Roar ability they gain Critical Strike for 10.00 seconds.

• Events
• Unit - A unit starts the effect of an ability
• Conditions
• Ability being cast Equal to Roar
• Actions
• Unit - Add Critical Strike (Neutral Hostile) to Triggering unit
• Wait 10.00 seconds
• Unit - Remove Critical Strike (Neutral Hostile) from Triggering unit

Then they can learn the differences between Hero/Unit/Item abilities. If the ability won't have Levels or doesn't need to be Learned then it should probably be a Unit ability. If the ability is used for an Item then it should be an Item ability. If the ability needs to be Learned by a Hero then it's a Hero ability.

Stuff like that should help them develop their skills. Also, I think balancing will come naturally to them as they grow older and get more into competitive gaming, assuming they will.

 

[udg_Potato]

Truth, right now they are having fun messing with it. The unit editor is by far their favorite area to play with lol

May I suggest that they play mostly TD maps in order to grasp the basics - such as:

• Icon Positions
• How units / heroes / builders behave
• Position of the minimap
• etc.

I remember when I was an 8 year old trying out games, and the most important part for me was to memorize where things are so that I don't have to search for them everytime I open up the game!


Make us proud with the next generation of Warcraft soldiers!

 

[Riki]

I wouldn't worry too much about balance at first. After all, who among us didn't create super units with +2000 hp, chaos damage and 5 super destructive abilities when we were kids?

The important thing here is to have fun, at least while understanding the basics, as said before. Playing maps made by other people is a good way to acquire that knowledge. There are also a good amount of tutorials here that can be of great help to them.

Knowing what types of maps they are most interested in can also help you know in which direction they can move first.

 

[JCarrill0]

Maybe you could make them some beginner maps with examples of basic game logic.

For example, teach them how to create a Region and how to create a trigger that detects when A unit enters said region.

I know when I was a kid and messing around with Wc3 my first few triggers were things like Teleporters (Move unit from Region A to Region B).

Then I learned how to make a custom triggered ability which was a struggle. For the longest time I was using "A unit begins casting an ability" as the Event when in reality I wanted "A unit starts the effect of an ability".

A simple example:
When a unit casts the Roar ability they gain Critical Strike for 10.00 seconds.

• Events
• Unit - A unit starts the effect of an ability
• Conditions
• Ability being cast Equal to Roar
• Actions
• Unit - Add Critical Strike (Neutral Hostile) to Triggering unit
• Wait 10.00 seconds
• Unit - Remove Critical Strike (Neutral Hostile) from Triggering unit

Then they can learn the differences between Hero/Unit/Item abilities. If the ability won't have Levels or doesn't need to be Learned then it should probably be a Unit ability. If the ability is used for an Item then it should be an Item ability. If the ability needs to be Learned by a Hero then it's a Hero ability.

Stuff like that should help them develop their skills. Also, I think balancing will come naturally to them as they grow older and get more into competitive gaming, assuming they will.

I agree, they really enjoy it and I don’t want them to feel like it’s a struggle or a chore just to enjoy it.

May I suggest that they play mostly TD maps in order to grasp the basics - such as:

• Icon Positions
• How units / heroes / builders behave
• Position of the minimap
• etc.

I remember when I was an 8 year old trying out games, and the most important part for me was to memorize where things are so that I don't have to search for them everytime I open up the game!


Make us proud with the next generation of Warcraft soldiers!

This is a great idea!
I’ll do my best when making them master commanders.

I wouldn't worry too much about balance at first. After all, who among us didn't create super units with +2000 hp, chaos damage and 5 super destructive abilities when we were kids?

The important thing here is to have fun, at least while understanding the basics, as said before. Playing maps made by other people is a good way to acquire that knowledge. There are also a good amount of tutorials here that can be of great help to them.

Knowing what types of maps they are most interested in can also help you know in which direction they can move first.

Yeah I can honestly say I did way too much op maps… and I honestly had so much fun while everyone else didn’t since I always win


Keep the advice coming guys, I really appreciate everyone’s input!

 

[JCarrill0]

Huge respect and praise that you are showing your little (I assume) son this masterpiece of a game! I remember when my father did... and I never stopped playing it ever since!
Bro is an actual Chad

@raypack,
First let me say Thank you. It’s always scary for me putting their stuff out there, and while they are all in school, they have a long ways to go.

We started with one of my re-fitted Lost Temple Maps, where I showed him how to change the Terrain and replace units & Doodads so he could share and design something new with our own creative thinking.

I showed him a completed one when I made my Ancient Temple Map. It was a simple recreated Lost Temple but in Ashenvale using the old temple doodads as an idea that spawned the new map.

We then got to work on Black Temple. This time using Outland doodads which ended up looking better on a Black Citadel terrain.

From there we saved it as a template and then added our own customized ideas, which later turned out to be still minimal enough to not be a complete altered melee, but more then enough to no longer be considered melee by old “Blizzard Map” standards.

While we still plan to update this, we did move on to other projects. One of them was a Naga Temple map which takes the Lost Temple look and places it on Sunken Ruins. This is where we want to create a 5th race (the Naga) and use them but we’ve hit a few bumps in the road and decided to hold off for the moment.

Our most recent project is his own design (with my help) where I asked him what his favorite creeps were. He really like the Bandit Lord and the units that co-exist with them. Bandits, rogue wizards etc so we created a new map, that’s not Lost Temple this time, we added some old idea from my custom map that I no longer utilize (such as random Neutral Buildings) and added his idea to create a balanced “Melee Map”. We named it Dreadlock

While it might not be used for Ranked Matches in this day n age, we definitely can say it’s well balanced.

From there we took it to the next level. We added a sub race change where you could replace certain units with Bandits and utilize them in a balanced format without feeling like it’s too imbalanced or overpowered.

We even created his favorite Campaign Hero and made it into a playable hero using his own names he came up with.

It can be a bit imba since it has no real testing outside is playing it with his siblings. We even created a secret way to add a Super Boss version of Lord Garithos. You simply type in his name and poof he appears and now you have to defeat him.

We wanted him super hard to defeat but not impossible for a computer to beat. The purpose was so we could even get to play as Lord Garithos if we succeeded.
After trial and error we seen we had to post it here and see what other casual players thought about it.

 

[Gnuoy]

You shouldn't restrict their impulse for imbalance. They might be headed down the path of something fun and unique. Or they will just come to appreciate the sentiment for balance.

 

[nchp1903]

My first time touching the editor was when I was like, 5 or 6, and how I had fun was, basically, doing random shit in the object editor.

Overpowered units, underpowered units, building that can cast random spells, items hidden inside trees, place Archimonde and Spider Crabs in there or something.

Once it's done, if you want to be more involved with their hobby, you can try asking them where they are going with their creative process so you can help polish it without changing too much from the base map.

Also, to go deeper into the triggering part, you can use a piece of lore or gameplay that you like to start building a map around it and slowly extend upon them.

 

[JCarrill0]

You shouldn't restrict their impulse for imbalance. They might be headed down the path of something fun and unique. Or they will just come to appreciate the sentiment for balance.

For the most part I havent. I did for maps we wanted to share with people online. this i by far not the only maps we have made or thy have made.

My first time touching the editor was when I was like, 5 or 6, and how I had fun was, basically, doing random shit in the object editor.

Overpowered units, underpowered units, building that can cast random spells, items hidden inside trees, place Archimonde and Spider Crabs in there or something.

Once it's done, if you want to be more involved with their hobby, you can try asking them where they are going with their creative process so you can help polish it without changing too much from the base map.

Also, to go deeper into the triggering part, you can use a piece of lore or gameplay that you like to start building a map around it and slowly extend upon them.

My boys as well been making maps since that age, and its completely fun for them. They get excited about playing it and sharing it after they complete the map, they enjoy having someone else notice stuff so they can fix it. They like to perfect the maps they make that based on what they feel is a map worth playing.