Hero Contest #2 - Results

[busterkomo]

Nevermind that. I've concluded that hawk900 is incapable of simple addition .

 

[Eccho]

So shall you still consult with me?

 

[busterkomo]

No, it's no longer necessary.

 

[Eccho]

>.> I was already starting... nvm then

 

[busterkomo]

Sorry.

 

[Kwah]

Nevermind that. I've concluded that hawk900 is incapable of simple addition .

3.5 + 3.0 + 7.5 + 7.0

7 + 3 = 10
7.5 + 3.5 = 11

10 + 11 = 21.

SHHIIIIIITTTTT.

QFT'd apparently.

 

[Rmx]

Can anyone notice my SIGNATURE ... !

IS this any proof or i am just wrong !

 

[Eccho]

ööh? You simply doesn't approve a spell right away just because it was a good placer in a contest. The fact is, Jonnny has updated it like 4 times, according to the moderation log. We must always look at them, lulz.

Do you really think hvo just, "mehmeh Ill give jonnny little shit of this and little shit of that"?

 

[Roflcoptor]

Hmmm giving GUI a maximum of 4 points would equal 2 points in the spell section = lacking........

Seriously, this is ridicolous.

We have 16 GUI spells with a 5/5 rating at the moment, about 84 with a 4/5 or higher rating and about 148 GUI spells with a 3/5 or higher rating.

So basically, I ask myself, why GUI only gets smth like 4?

I'd understand a cap of 6 or something, but 4 aren't even 50%, so seriously, what the hell?

 

[Kwah]

Also, efficiency isn't so much problem with GUI as modularity is.

 

[Eccho]

Hmmm giving GUI a maximum of 4 points would equal 2 points in the spell section = lacking........

Seriously, this is ridicolous.

We have 16 GUI spells with a 5/5 rating at the moment, about 84 with a 4/5 or higher rating and about 148 GUI spells with a 3/5 or higher rating.

So basically, I ask myself, why GUI only gets smth like 4?

I'd understand a cap of 6 or something, but 4 aren't even 50%, so seriously, what the hell?

See, in a contest, it is a matter of how well you are at scripting... good scripting. Basically, in the spell section it is another matter, and also, in the mini-spell-contest. Keep in mind that you are actually given an award for a larger contest. Don't you think it should have higher standards?

Anywho, as in the spell section there are certain categories. Now, a GUI spell could never be compared to a Jass/vJass spell, so that is why we have these categories. And the point is, a GUI spell can get a full 5/5 score, in the GUI category, while jass/vJass could respectivily get a 5/5 score in the Jass category. I hope that make it clear.

Further on, we are still waiting for the 1.24 patch in order to finally change the spell section rules. These will stricten up alot of the rules, especially that MUI GUI spells/systems is a must (with exceptions such as cinematic systems which is player-based only)

Thank you..

 

[Roflcoptor]

Thanks Eccho, that's exactly, what I wanted to know.

I thought of something like that and wasn't sure, so I asked.

And sorry, if I sounded rude to anyone, I didn't mean to

 

[Martin Barbov]

At last. It has ended. Congrtas to the winners.
By the way. You misspelled my name
Martin Barboy ---->>Martin Barbov
Originality: 4/5 - thx.

Balance: 3/5 - too high I think.

Coding: 2.5/10 - that's correct.

Theme: 7.5/10 - I think I deserve more here.

Total: 17/30 - Fairly good result for a piece of GUI.

 

[Deuterium]

Well as expected GUI was to be downrated... although it says Coding and not Efficiency. I expected Kingz to win, but congrats to Schurke =) it was a matter of 0.5 points

 

[Roflcoptor]

At last. It has ended. Congrtas to the winners.
By the way. You misspelled my name
Martin Barboy ---->>Martin Barbov
Originality: 4/5 - thx.

Balance: 3/5 - too high I think.

Coding: 2.5/10 - that's correct.

Theme: 7.5/10 - I think I deserve more here.

Total: 17/30 - Fairly good result for a piece of GUI.

Well, he also spelled my name wrong but this happens all the time...

It seems noone wants to realize it's Roflcopt[highlight]o[/code]r

Anyways it gives the impression, that everything was done in quite a haste.

 

[Eccho]

... although it says Coding and not Efficiency.

I thought that was fairly obvious that efficiency is included in coding

 

[Deuterium]

I thought that was fairly obvious that efficiency is included in coding

Well yeah it is obvious, but when I read Coding, I thought it'll be rating considering which coding method was used (i.e. GUI or Jass or vJass) and not purely by efficiency. Get my point?

 

[Hemske]

Oh, well my coding was messed up :/. Too bad i had so less time. Only the latest couple of weeks ive improved my triggering a lot ^^

 

[HailFireer]

Lol. Discqalified. Well I did put my hero in pastebin for a month. But newer mind. I didn't use Jass so I wasnt even close


At least my disqualification is least bad ^^

Congrats to all the contestants, and special to winners

 

[Mage_Goo]

Congratulation! Congrats to all Contestant!
Hail all of the Winner!!


Off topic : When I look at it, The Three Winner is use JASS, maybe I should learn vJASS.

 

[krisserz]

Congratulations to all winners, and grats to all people, who tried to be winner ;]

 

[Septimus]

Well as expected GUI was to be downrated... although it says Coding and not Efficiency. I expected Kingz to win, but congrats to Schurke =) it was a matter of 0.5 points

Gosh, people should start to read the fine print of the submission rules before they say it was unfair for GUI. I guess I have to highlight it since some people have a rather poor eye sight

How leak free, efficient, and well structured the coding of the map is

 

[Pharaoh_]

Septimus, don't be that sarcastic, in occassions you shouldn't. Coding doesn't only define Jass, it also defines GUI and, accept it or not, GUI is another language of programming in the Warcraft 3 environment. Maybe it's not as efficient as Jass, but because of the fact it's a simple language, it doesn't mean it should get underestimated. Like it or not, there is this tiny 'racism' between GUI and Jass. Yes, all those systems that came out of extended capabilities of the World Editor (Vexorian's touch up's), enhanced Jass language mostly, when nothing happened to GUI and that is why Blizzard is about to release the new patch.
So, when it comes to structured coding, know that GUI is also involved within it. If the contest was not to take GUI-based submissions seriously, then the contest would be Hero Contest

. So, i can see them complaing with a fair aspect over this. ;)

 

[Deuterium]

Well Septimus, you out of most people know that I script in vJass and that the whole judging balance tips to my side rather than the side of a GUI'er.

Yet, Pharaoh made his statement clear, that in a general contest, each coding method should be judged separately, unless it is specified that the contest is a Jass contest.

Although as I happen to notice, more people are learning vJass nowadays and quicker.
There is basically no more "pro" GUI coders now around the hive except for Rmx, all others, from Kingz, to Paladon, to whoever there is, are now vJassers.

So if things stay like that, I guess GUI wouldn't be even something to worry about in sometime.

 

[Rmx]

OMG just put the Contest name ... Hero Contest #2 [Jass > GUI]

GUI should be = JASS ... in the end all GUI'ers or most of them will learn JASS ... but if we made the same ability in JASS and GUI .. it is still the same .. only efficiency .. now are you going to tell me that there will be 50 or more same heroes in a map !!!

 

[Deuterium]

See... you just got the just mentioned pro-GUI'er pissed

 

[Rmx]

See... you just got the just mentioned pro-GUI'er pissed

What :S ?

 

[Gilles]

Is it not possible that spells made in GUI are usually made by people with less experience than someone that uses vJass? Is it not possible that because of this spells, made in GUI do poorly in spell contests where the better coders just happen to use JASS? I don't know much about our coding community, and I could be entirely wrong, but it's a possibility.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

Is it not possible that spells made in GUI are usually made by people with less experience than someone that uses vJass? Is it not possible that because of this spells, made in GUI do poorly in spell contests where the better coders just happen to use JASS? I don't know much about our coding community, and I could be entirely wrong, but it's a possibility.

You sir, are a genius.

 

[Kwah]

But seeing as the contest does not support the use of systems, we obviously don't care about good coding anyway.

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

But seeing as the contest does not support the use of systems, we obviously don't care about good coding anyway.

There's a difference between good code and lazy code. Using caster systems = lazy code.

 

[Septimus]

GUI is another language of programming in the Warcraft 3 environment.

As far as I know, there is many cases where people say GUI are not consider as programming language.

 

[Kwah]

There's a difference between good code and lazy code. Using caster systems = lazy code.

Using xe (collider, say) = increased modularity and general usefulness.

 

[Pharaoh_]

As far as I know, there is many cases where people say GUI are not consider as programming language.

Ok I will not begin a conversation here, cause I know how long it could be and how spammy (you know, each one will manifest his aspect over the languages and in the end what we will manage to do is manifest out knowledge, becoming some know-at-all guys).
I'll tell you this though: If a spell can work out of triggering via GUI or a system can work out via GUI, it means that GUI is a language. Apart from that, the first thing you can see, when opening the editor is GUI interface. To Jass something, you'll need to delete stuff. Plus, I don't even understand your attitude, when your submission had GUI in it. Well, I guess it was not such a serious submission (and you know it), but even if you had just one ability coded, why didn't you make efficient enough, by making it Jass-coded? I don't get also why do you keep reminding people the rules with such sarcasm, when you used GUI on your own.
Anyway, it seems that GUI is the first language someone becomes familiar with; it's the default language. The fact that some people were so hardened over warcraft 3 environment and extended its capabilities with Jass enhancing features, I repeat myself, It doesn't render GUI language a no, neither an anti-pro. Since GUI clearly does its job, it's something no one must doubt.
Now, telling me that some people state GUI is not a programming language (which is something too general, i spoke of the warcraft 3 environment only), is just out of place; I've heard many rumors myself, I don't spread them all over, without any points.
That's all; didn't mean to offend you or something, I just hate this all-over underestimating part of GUI.

 

[Deuterium]

Well let me basically state the solution for this issue.

Coding contests should be either solely Jass/vJass or solely GUI.
That way this conflict between the two coding methods won't happen anymore.

It's as simple as that

 

[Martin Barbov]

Is it not possible that spells made in GUI are usually made by people with less experience than someone that uses vJass?

Usually yes, but not always. Some of the GUI submissions were made by experienced map makers.

Is it not possible that because of this spells, made in GUI do poorly in spell contests where the better coders just happen to use JASS?

I won two mini-spell contest with GUI spell, while many of my opponents had jass spells. Not that my spells were something spectacular, but the others lacked creativity and even the coding wasn't that good (no offence). So jassers are not necessary better coders. It's about the one behid the monitor, not the used language.

Since it's not a jass contest GUI jass and even Object editor work(goddamn it, it was in the rules) Must be equally judged. Rules must be followed, even when they are broken. It's a mistake, made before the contest had began. It's clear that jass is superior, yet everything is allowed. That's an unwanted Discrimination, not made on purpose but still it's not right. I think the coding rules should be seriously reworked for the next contest(and maybe for the others spell contests).

 

[Septimus]

Ok I will not begin a conversation here, cause I know how long it could be and how spammy (you know, each one will manifest his aspect over the languages and in the end what we will manage to do is manifest out knowledge, becoming some know-at-all guys).
I'll tell you this though: If a spell can work out of triggering via GUI or a system can work out via GUI, it means that GUI is a language. Apart from that, the first thing you can see, when opening the editor is GUI interface. To Jass something, you'll need to delete stuff. Plus, I don't even understand your attitude, when your submission had GUI in it. Well, I guess it was not such a serious submission (and you know it), but even if you had just one ability coded, why didn't you make efficient enough, by making it Jass-coded? I don't get also why do you keep reminding people the rules with such sarcasm, when you used GUI on your own.
Anyway, it seems that GUI is the first language someone becomes familiar with; it's the default language. The fact that some people were so hardened over warcraft 3 environment and extended its capabilities with Jass enhancing features, I repeat myself, It doesn't render GUI language a no, neither an anti-pro. Since GUI clearly does its job, it's something no one must doubt.
Now, telling me that some people state GUI is not a programming language (which is something too general, i spoke of the warcraft 3 environment only), is just out of place; I've heard many rumors myself, I don't spread them all over, without any points.
That's all; didn't mean to offend you or something, I just hate this all-over underestimating part of GUI.

Nobody going to read this wall of text if you do not bother to separate it with paragraph.

I won two mini-spell contest with GUI spell, while many of my opponents had jass spells. Not that my spells were something spectacular, but the others lacked creativity and even the coding wasn't that good (no offence). So jassers are not necessary better coders. It's about the one behid the monitor, not the used language.

That is why other aspect such as creativity must not be neglected. And of course scripting in efficiency was the necessary criteria needed. Some jass scripting earn a lower score than gui cause they were merely a gui converted to jass trigger with lot's of gui call such as bj.

since jass was much better than gui in efficiency, it was expected to be done far better in jass. If it isn't done that well, then there is no point for it to be code in jass. After all, it was code in jass for efficiency.

Hope this might not sound too confusing.

 

[Martin Barbov]

The main problem is that the rules are the same for Jass, Gui, and Object Editor spells, while it's more than clear that jass is more efficient than GUI. Object Editor is more efficient than Jass, but it doesn't get more points. See the contradiction?

 

[Kwah]

You can make some seriously awesome shit using just the OE.

 

[Martin Barbov]

Yeah, I know.

I still wonder how exactly I made those stuff in the Techtree contest 1.
Not to mention the second where I didn't participate. My plan was to make a tech race, having mech tanks with hardpoints (like in Star Wars- Empire at War).
Using just the Object Editor.

 

[Sabelion]

Sabelion

Originality: 3/5

Balance: 1/5

Coding: 2/10

Theme: 7.5/10

Total: 13.5/30

Shame on me , but still 7.5 on the theme not that bad. and didnt make any effort balancing it . I want my hero to be overpowerfull

 

[Kingz]

I am so late with this reply

I am glad i got the 2nd place and i am looking forward to the next one

Next time i will do better at coding =)

 

[Saia_Djinn]

yeah next time I will not use systems and get disqualified=D
also it would be better if they r allowed

 

[Billy the Cat]

For one reason or another, the following contestants have been disqualified:

XS-Archangle (Didn't provide his submission in his post).
Billy the Cat (Used a knockback system).
Aspard (Used a knockback/jump system).
scorpion182 (Used a knockback system).
T-Revellion-T (Banned).
Saia Djin (Used xe and a knockback system)
.LsD (Hero had 5 abilities)
HaileFireer (Pastebin link expired. You should have used the longest option for something like this, or just attached your submission to your post)

Now I ask for an explanation.
I have asked you (hvo-busterkomo) AND Eccho for permission to use this system (since the rules were not clear enough to me on what systems were or were not allowed, since this wasn't a caster system to my knowledge) and got it.
Since this was my first contest I took full care of all the rules and every time when I had my doubts on something I asked for it (sometimes being ignored when posting on the thread, but I got my answer on my PM) and spended many hours doing little things/balancing to make sure I would stand a good chance and hopefully end up in the top 3. Also keeping me from other mapmaking.

Sure sure it's alright to use the knockback system, but we will not tell you that you will be banned from the contest...
I see a lot of other people that have been banned with the same argument...

Please watch what you allow before accusing anyone of breaking a rule.

Note: I even told some contestants the system was allowed after I got the permission.

Edit: Added pictures to prove my point for those who don't believe me.

 

[Paladon]

That's indeed interesting.
Things like this should not happen.

 

[Saia_Djinn]

You are really an unlucky guy Cat and such things should really not happen

also a clearer list should be included(atleast concerning ALL popular thingies like xe knock Jump..not just a general thing like CasterSys only) i always thought xe is far away from a caster system and just allows one to write cleaner code(and i think someone who can work with structs and (xe/CasteSys/knockback) would also be able to loop trough a group and create moveable effects...

 

[-JonNny]

I wondered too that many were banned for the use of such (imo) simple systems due they did not the most of the job (as mentioned in the rules)

Ratings are objective and its always a matter of taste

but those "permissions" to use the system does really show that the contest was kinda f*cked up
as Paladon said this really shouldnt happen

 

[Billy the Cat]

I would be okay with a disqualification if I would have known that it was against the rules, but since the judge(s) clearly gave me permission to use this system and I told others they could use it afterwards a lot of people have been disqualified that should not have been so.
Especially since I was really serious on winning this contest.

 

[Deuterium]

Sort of shameful act... :s

Well, I see BtC deserves some re-looking at the spells... and if good enough (which they are), included without a rank in the "rankings" (where they posted the points) with an obvious apology and his points.

And some rep as a, ummm... you know like to make up for ruining his chance for winning.

There is no "arguing" on this issue - saying this to the mods before any starts to argue - as it is obvious BtC has been... let me try to use the right word... well, deprived of his full rights to be a contestant for no logical reason, actually for the wrong reasons (the pictures are full proof).

I've made the point clear enough...

Thanks for being understanding

 

[Gilles]

To be honest I don't know what I'm going to do here. I'll talk to hvo about this, and hopefully come up with a solution. Fortunately my laziness has come in handy, since the rewards have not been given out yet!