Have you ever used WC3 modding in your career?

[Lambdadelta]

Such as on an online portfolio, resume, or in some manner that landed you an interview/job?

 

[Kyrbi0]

Interesting discussion. Nothing to add yet.

 

[HappyTauren]

I would advise against this, unless you're applying for a game company closely related to what you were doing. Game modding is otherwise generally frowned upon, and it only gets worse if you're really proficient at it, because it means you've essentially wasted a bunch of your time modding a game instead of learning to use the technology used in the real world, or got better at your field in general.

I actually asked one of my uni professors the same question, and their answer was pretty much what I told you here.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I would advise against this, unless you're applying for a game company closely related to what you were doing. Game modding is otherwise generally frowned upon, and it only gets worse if you're really proficient at it, because it means you've essentially wasted a bunch of your time modding a game instead of learning to use the technology used in the real world, or got better at your field in general.

I actually asked one of my uni professors the same question, and their answer was pretty much what I told you here.

I wish that didn't sound so reasonable... I've thought much the same thing. :<

 

[Kazeon]

Just at the right amount will do fine. Only to show that you have experience in modding, but not that it's your main skill. Just make sure it doesn't outnumber your other creations.

 

[Wareditor]

I think it's really about how you present it. Modding is a source of tremendous success (Dota, Counter Strike, PUBG and so on...) and in that sense it doesn't matter if you modded a game or made something else. The most important thing is that you made something interesting that you can talk about. In all my experience, each time I mentioned modding in a professional setting, it led to interesting conversations. Do you think what you made is worth sharing to the company you are applying to ?

 

[IcemanBo]

Making some wc3 spells and some 'normal' maps is honestly nothing you should talk about very directly with your employer in a interview, for example.

But I agree with

Just at the right amount will do fine.

I think it's really about how you present it.

Maybe you can present it just as hobby, and that you enjoyed working with others on some project where writing coding concepts is involved. Rest depends pretty much on company and maybe situation, and if you see they actively show more interest.

 

[chobibo]

Maybe you can use it to show your employer how focused you are on a certain task. Just don't make it look like you'll work for free lol.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

• Wrote VB applications to control nuclear reactor. Real-time control and monitoring of systems handling 10,000 unique data inputs per second.
• Wrote advanced algorithms in C# to detect imminent system failure, which were used within a Web-based application.
• Created Web service in C# to allow partners to access data in a secure, reliable, and responsive manner; typical data set was 1,000,000 rows and concurrency challenges needed to be overcome at the database and application layers.
• Made Naruto Spell Pack in Warcraft III.

src

 

[HappyTauren]

• Wrote VB applications to control nuclear reactor. Real-time control and monitoring of systems handling 10,000 unique data inputs per second.
• Wrote advanced algorithms in C# to detect imminent system failure, which were used within a Web-based application.
• Created Web service in C# to allow partners to access data in a secure, reliable, and responsive manner; typical data set was 1,000,000 rows and concurrency challenges needed to be overcome at the database and application layers.
• Made Naruto Spell Pack in Warcraft III.

src

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

 

[Pinzu]

I would advise against this, unless you're applying for a game company closely related to what you were doing. Game modding is otherwise generally frowned upon, and it only gets worse if you're really proficient at it, because it means you've essentially wasted a bunch of your time modding a game instead of learning to use the technology used in the real world, or got better at your field in general.

I actually asked one of my uni professors the same question, and their answer was pretty much what I told you here.

I would have to disagree to some extent, compared to what? Most of your fellow students don't have any side projects.

Also there is a difference between modders, take a person like Fingolfin, surely top 1%. No doubt to my mind the man could leverage his projects quite well, if he presents it in the right way.

 

[fladdermasken]

I would have to disagree to some extent, compared to what? Most of your fellow students don't have any side projects.

Also there is a difference between modders, take a person like Fingolfin, surely top 1%. No doubt to my mind the man could leverage his projects quite well, if he presents it in the right way.

Nope, he's right. Your main pitch in an interview is an extremely short window, and you'll waste it trying to explain a game mod in a way that captivates an employer, or really anyone outside of the franchise. Nobody is saying it's shit, but it's very likely not what they want to hear, and that's all there is to it.

 

[Archian]

I've never used Warcraft 3 modding exactly, but I've used my experience with online communities and social media (thanks to Warcraft 3 modding i.e. Hive Workshop) to get a job in the past as Vice President of Marketing in ELSA (The European Law Students Association).

 

[Duke]

I would maybe mention it as a hobby if they ask, but that's it

 

[Rogue Kessler]

I got my start in game dev modding WC2, then Starcraft, then WC3. Modding Warcraft games is responsible for making me decide I wanted to make games. Now I make games for a living.

As for whether to bring up your modding to potential employers: I'm of the belief that any skill that takes you time and effort to learn and master is something you can potentially leverage as a strength in your career. The startup you're applying to might not hire a community product manager simply because they're a modder - but they might be interested in a candidate with experience collaborating with other tech creatives, or implementing a rigorous system for finding and tracking bugs in your work, or any of the other zillion things that modding might have taught you. I don't think it's taboo to discuss those experiences, as long as you find the right way to package it. (I have a section at the bottom of my resume dedicated to "Passion Projects", for example.)

At the end of the day, everything you've worked on is experience doing something, even if you weren't paid for it - and any kind of experience has potential weight.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I got my start in game dev modding WC2, then Starcraft, then WC3. Modding Warcraft games is responsible for making me decide I wanted to make games. Now I make games for a living.

As for whether to bring up your modding to potential employers: I'm of the belief that any skill that takes you time and effort to learn and master is something you can potentially leverage as a strength in your career. The startup you're applying to might not hire a community product manager simply because they're a modder - but they might be interested in a candidate with experience collaborating with other tech creatives, or implementing a rigorous system for finding and tracking bugs in your work, or any of the other zillion things that modding might have taught you. I don't think it's taboo to discuss those experiences, as long as you find the right way to package it. (I have a section at the bottom of my resume dedicated to "Passion Projects", for example.)

At the end of the day, everything you've worked on is experience doing something, even if you weren't paid for it - and any kind of experience has potential weight.

This is perfect.

 

[HappyTauren]

Jake's correct in a way, but it's also worth noting that it takes a very professional approach and a quality product for a modding project to really be something worth putting into a resume (that your employer should care about). Most modders just don't make professional grade resources or end products (maps). Employers want people who can create/conceptualize/design great products in the team context, while also having the necessary skills for their position.

For that, let's break down the OP's example, even if he knows it's a bad idea to use pudge wars as an example of software engineering.

So, why shouldn't you apply to a software engineering position with a map like pudge wars?

Pudge wars is no example of great software engineering, because you can't even do proper software engineering in wc3/jass to begin with. All you can do is use hacky approaches to solve some problems you have and then write obnoxiously verbose code that makes no sense to people who don't write jass (if the project was in java/python/c# any employer could read it).

An example of great software engineering would be a mod created in a well structured language, where you can actually show exactly how and why you've made certain design decisions, rather than "well this is all that worked". This is why people who learn programming in jass alone aren't going to be employed as programmers until they pick up a real programming language and showcase their skills in it instead.

So when you have limited time to explain what it is that you're doing, that you have skills for, do you bring up your wc3 map, or do you bring up something else, that's actually well designed (since the environment it is made in allowed for that)? If you bring your wc3 project up, employers will assume that you have nothing better, which is really bad for you and your interview.

In your case, creating a 2D game which has all functionalities of pudge wars, would be much better. Having the ability to write code in a well known and structured language, with good design in mind AND be able to show it to others is something that employers want. How do you even explain what you've done to make pudge wars work? How do you explain what are wc3 mechanics, and what is your code? Do you have any documentation on things you've done? Which functionalities would you want to show in your software engineering resume?

But of course, this is all if you're pitching pudge wars as a software engineering product, which I already said, it is really not. If you want to do game design, and pitch it as a game concept you have, then it's a no brainer - that can obviously work, because, as I said, pudge wars is a cool and fun game. My first post was referring mostly to coding, because of what you're studying.

This post wasn't a dig at the OP and/or pudge wars (he explained all those things himself in his post anyways), it can be generalized for most wc3 maps in the context of programming and general "modding", and how little it is actually worth in the professional world.

And when it comes to game assets, you really want scratch made stuff if you want to put it into your resume, and I know very few people who create really high quality scratch made stuff on this site, one of whom is Kwaliti, who did get his job by being scouted for his amazing scratch made models.

Just because people have put an effort into some skills, it doesn't mean those skills are going to be relevant for the new job, and wc3 has too many intricacies that even if you're good at making wc3 models or wc3 spells, you might not be good enough to work as a modeler or programmer for a real game.

 

[Pinzu]

Jake's correct in a way, but it's also worth noting that it takes a very professional approach and a quality product for a modding project to really be something worth putting into a resume (that your employer should care about). Most modders just don't make professional grade resources or end products (maps). Employers want people who can create/conceptualize/design great products in the team context, while also having the necessary skills for their position.

Anything you mention better be a quality product, regardless if it's wc3 or something else.

 

[HappyTauren]

Anything you mention better be a quality product, regardless if it's wc3 or something else.

This is true, but most things that are good enough to be warcraft 3 maps aren't good products to be pitched to anyone professionally. That's my point. Bad software can't be good software. Badly coded maps can still be good maps.

 

[Rogue Kessler]

Yeah and to be clear: I think in most situations, the experience/skills gained are actually more worth talking about than the product itself. I don't think I'd show a WC3 mod I made unless it was directly relevant to the position (say, a level design gig) - but I might mention modding as an extracurricular on my resume, and then use it in interviews as an opportunity to discuss skills I feel I've learned from my experience as a modder.

 

[HappyTauren]

Yeah and to be clear: I think in most situations, the experience/skills gained are actually more worth talking about than the product itself. I don't think I'd show a WC3 mod I made unless it was directly relevant to the position (say, a level design gig) - but I might mention modding as an extracurricular on my resume, and then use it in interviews as an opportunity to discuss skills I feel I've learned from my experience as a modder.

In one interview I was asked why I started programming in first place, and I did bring up warcraft 3, and how it lead to me learning java/python/studying software engineering/etc. I didn't talk about things I have worked on in wc3, or anything specific, it was just a mention that game modding is what got me into programming, and that's all. Sometimes it is good to omit things you don't think your employers/interviewer will like, but I saw no reason to, at that point, since the job in question had to do with game programming to begin with and I even got the position I applied for, but after a few months I realized the job wasn't really what I was looking for so I quit in the end.

 

[Lambdadelta]

Thanks for the comments everyone! I enjoyed reading them. I myself already decided against it, but I thought it would be interesting to see what others think. I agree with the point that it personally feels out of place, isn't really professional and it might require some more explaining about JASS/mechanics if you try to leverage something out of it.

I like that @HappyTauren said game modding was mentioned as a motivator for going into programming, though.

This post wasn't a dig at the OP and/or pudge wars (he explained all those things himself in his post anyways), it can be generalized for most wc3 maps in the context of programming and general "modding", and how little it is actually worth in the professional world.

No offense taken

 

[Kyrbi0]

In one interview I was asked why I started programming in first place, and I did bring up warcraft 3, and how it lead to me learning java/python/studying software engineering/etc. I didn't talk about things I have worked on in wc3, or anything specific, it was just a mention that game modding is what got me into programming, and that's all. Sometimes it is good to omit things you don't think your employers/interviewer will like, but I saw no reason to, at that point, since the job in question had to do with game programming to begin with and I even got the position I applied for, but after a few months I realized the job wasn't really what I was looking for so I quit in the end.

Yeah, this is more in line with what @Jake Kessler was saying (both times); your earlier response to him seemed to indicate to me you hadn't actually understood what he meant (which was of course: "would not mention anything specific to Wc3/modding/maps/etc, but would try to express the *experience* & *job-related skills* brought about by modding.).

Honestly, I cannot see anything wrong with that, and would suggest it to anyway. Yeah I shouldn't say "I MAEK JUNGLE TROLLZ!", but pointing out my experience with design, my experience collaborating with others on team projects/goals, my experience with running Contests & maintaining user satisfaction with my presentations... Etc. All good stuff, applicable in any given job.

 

[Flux]

It's not something I would put in my resume but when asked as a hobby, it can be mentioned.

 

[Rui]

Made Naruto Spell Pack in Warcraft III.

Omg love naruto spellpax XD

Honestly, I cannot see anything wrong with that

I tend to agree it is frowned upon. Employers have no idea games like Dota, LoL, stand-alone TDs out there all owe to Wc3. They have no idea Wc3 modding was something absolutely groundbreaking. When they think of video games, they're probably thinking of the FPSes and car racing games I see everybody playing. These are more popular.

I was thinking “maybe give it a generation”... but even then, probably not. Wc3 deserves its special page in game history. I hope it gets written. Like someone once said in this site, such fine balance between graphics and modding capabilities is unlikely to repeat itself.

Though I also agree with @Pinzu. There are resources here (graphical ones, mostly) that would make a very fine addition to your resume. Icons, for example; you don't even need to mention wc3. Graphical and original work is likely to be an advantage. Maps, less so. Experience running a site? Maybe when running for something small scale, as seems to be the case with @Archian, but I reckon (correct me if I'm wrong) he'll be using his newly acquired experience from now on. I know a friend of mine administrated a relatively large site for over 5 years and in two interviews employers intentionally ignored that part of his resume.

 

[LordDz]

Put your projects in a portfolio and you can show what you've done.

But be careful with mentioning that you like game programming / stuff to non-game studios. As when I've ever done that on a job interview, the interviewer tends to become a bit scared that I will just work at the company for a short time until I head for a game studio. Which is true, but they don't need to know that.

 

[Rogue Kessler]

But be careful with mentioning that you like game programming / stuff to non-game studios. As when I've ever done that on a job interview, the interviewer tends to become a bit scared that I will just work at the company for a short time until I head for a game studio.

This is funny to me because we're always afraid of people quitting to go make regular software, since it pays so much better than games pretty much across the board.

 

[HappyTauren]

This is funny to me because we're always afraid of people quitting to go make regular software, since it pays so much better than games pretty much across the board.

Yeah but game companies sometimes have lots of passionate people who won't really do anything else, which is why they work in games despite being qualified for better paying jobs. A lot of people who leave a game company, no matter how small, is because what kind of games the game company makes in the end. The one I left made stupid facebook games nobody should care about, and I lasted a bit more than a month. The company earns good money and the pay is good, but you can just feel that the product they sell is not made with love, it's made exclusively to earn money, which is disgusting. I now prefer to just do well paying stuff while working on game(s) as a hobby.

 

[Daffa]

Warcraft 3 was the reason I pick Game Development classes in Computer Engineering. I used to not like this expertise until I mod WC3. Also, WC3 is partially one of the reason I'm one step ahead than many in early semester coding classes in my university.

 

[bear_369]

I personally never used modding as a career but it does help me give the basic understanding of how video games worked like coding.
Currently, thanks to my experience in WC3 modding, I've moved on in using video game development tool such as Stencyl and Game Maker then later on into Java and "person-in-training" C/C++.

 

[Mr.Goblin]

part of the reason I got my job is because of warcraft3 modding. By my UI work made for warcraft3 maps, and the fact I worked on a few projects that became real indie projects later on. It was enough to show I was interrested into the video-game industry and that I somewhat had previous experience to work on bigger projects.

 

[BlackEnvyX]

I made a tiny cinematic for one of my music projects one time, but I haven't used any actual technical coding stuff in my career.