Grow in the area of Starcraft 2.

[Napoqe]

Well, I'm creating this topic for that members of staff, disclose more for people of Starcraft 2. To have more features, mods, etc...

I always thought more organized here and more beautiful interface. Of that those other sites.

sc2mapster.com is very bad to find something, and forum very ugly.

I think the number one (best) resource site for Warcraft. Why not leave it too good for Starcraft?

 

[Daffa]

This is mostly because people prefer WCIII over SCII

 

[Napoqe]

This is mostly because people prefer WCIII over SCII

I also prefer, but Warcraft this abandoned. Of for do everything in Starcraft 2, in that Warcraft that could.

 

[Rui]

Yes, I mentioned last year or so that one of Hive's advantages is the interface and being easy to navigate. However, that is it. The site did not properly accommodate SC2, in spite of all efforts and god knows I did try to make it happen.

Then Blizzard had the decision of supporting either SC2Mapster or the Hive. They chose SC2Mapster. These are the cards on the table: Hive was turned down. I have a few good guessed as to why.

Then again, SC2 was, modding-wise, a huge failure. The Editor came with the most rudimentary limitations — map dimensions and textures being examples I constantly refer — instilled in it and it lacked an instruction manual for people who don't study computer science at college.

Right now, the modding activity should be at its peak, but it is (apparently) declining: several threads in SC2Map have been created around that issue. We would be way late and using a non-prosperous period. I believe certain amends can be made, but we will most unlikely ever win the race — not only against SC2Mapster, but ourselves.

FockeWulf, at SC2Mapster, likes to use this graphic for reference: http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=sc2mapster#q="hive workshop", sc2mapster&cmpt=q

 

[Orcnet]

They might redo the whole editorial console and its objects in a more later years I guess, though I haven't touched the tool, but reading people's commentary across the net made me realize starcraft 2's editor is a bit rough on the edge.

 

[Napoqe]

Yes, I mentioned last year or so that one of Hive's advantages is the interface and being easy to navigate. However, that is it. The site did not properly accommodate SC2, in spite of all efforts and god knows I did try to make it happen.

Then Blizzard had the decision of supporting either SC2Mapster or the Hive. They chose SC2Mapster. These are the cards on the table: Hive was turned down. I have a few good guessed as to why.

Then again, SC2 was, modding-wise, a huge failure. The Editor came with the most rudimentary limitations — map dimensions and textures being examples I constantly refer — instilled in it and it lacked an instruction manual for people who don't study computer science at college.

Right now, the modding activity should be at its peak, but it is (apparently) declining: several threads in SC2Map have been created around that issue. We would be way late and using a non-prosperous period. I believe certain amends can be made, but we will most unlikely ever win the race — not only against SC2Mapster, but ourselves.

FockeWulf, at SC2Mapster, likes to use this graphic for reference: http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=sc2mapster#q="hive workshop", sc2mapster&cmpt=q

You remember same, the Hiveworkshop is better to explain the tutorials. Mostly the of models and icons of Warcraft (for import).

 

[Anachron]

Blizzard killed Mapping with SC2.
Just insanely stupid what they did with the editor.

About the WC3 modding:
It's dying faster and faster.
There will always be people modding with it, but it's peek is long time over.

I wish I could have a bigger community again, since I have some new ideas left that would definitely make a new genre of games...

But there is not enough support anymore. I need some more models, some systems, some icons ... too bad.

 

[Napoqe]

Blizzard killed Mapping with SC2.
Just insanely stupid what they did with the editor.

About the WC3 modding:
It's dying faster and faster.
There will always be people modding with it, but it's peek is long time over.

I wish I could have a bigger community again, since I have some new ideas left that would definitely make a new genre of games...

But there is not enough support anymore. I need some more models, some systems, some icons ... too bad.

I do not like that Battle.net system (which is in Starcraft 2), monitoring the maps. Maps that have copyright violations are removed. Out that had freedom to do whatever you like in Warcraft 3.

 

[Statharas]

I'm going to perform some changes to the submission rules of all resources that will probably direct half of our resources to the Needs Fix section. At least we'll have quality resources after that.

 

[Rui]

Restricting the standards is not the solution or, I think, even a part of it. Unless you'd like to explain your reasoning. I could say that the standards should be looser so that more people will post that sort of resource which, while not particularly original in itself, is useful for this or the other mapper.

On a second note, identity: Hive, the WC3 site, was known as an in-between concerning quality. It seems we turned out well: we are the largest non-Asian site yet.

On a third note: history. The strictness of standards has been tried before — WC3Campaigns. Nowadays, the site is deserted. Why? Because people preferred more lenient standards, so Hive won the duel.

 

[Statharas]

Quality>Quantity

 

[Marshmalo]

Then again, SC2 was, modding-wise, a huge failure. The Editor came with the most rudimentary limitations — map dimensions and textures being examples I constantly refer — instilled in it and it lacked an instruction manual for people who don't study computer science at college.

Right now, the modding activity should be at its peak, but it is (apparently) declining: several threads in SC2Map have been created around that issue. We would be way late and using a non-prosperous period. I believe certain amends can be made, but we will most unlikely ever win the race — not only against SC2Mapster, but ourselves.

I think you make a good point, I have SC2 but just find it too complicated and slow to mod. The modding approach blizzard took to starcraft 2 seems to have been alot more casual than wc3, if you look at all the sc2 costum games they seem to be very arcade stylie, aim at quick casual play.

Not the huge and very deep RPG or strategy maps you get with WC3.

I realy REALLY hope blizzard learn from this and when they finaly make WC4 they make the editer easier to use.

About the WC3 modding:
It's dying faster and faster.
There will always be people modding with it, but it's peek is long time over.

Yes the golen age of wc3 modding has passed but even now more than 10 years on it still have a very active and healthy modding and play base. I think thats in a large part to MMH website.

However this is now a huge range of rescources for modding wc3, the general quality of costum maps have greatly improved since "the golden age".

 

[Napoqe]

I think you make a good point, I have SC2 but just find it too complicated and slow to mod. The modding approach blizzard took to starcraft 2 seems to have been alot more casual than wc3, if you look at all the sc2 costum games they seem to be very arcade stylie, aim at quick casual play.

Not the huge and very deep RPG or strategy maps you get with WC3.

I realy REALLY hope blizzard learn from this and when they finaly make WC4 they make the editer easier to use.



Yes the golen age of wc3 modding has passed but even now more than 10 years on it still have a very active and healthy modding and play base. I think thats in a large part to MMH website.

However this is now a huge range of rescources for modding wc3, the general quality of costum maps have greatly improved since "the golden age".

What you said is very true and I liked your post. In fact the editor of Starcraft 2 is very complicated. Compared to the World Editor.

Outside that Warcraft gets better with style for RPG games.

Edit:

And the World of Warcraft killed the dream of Warcraft 4.

 

[Archian]

With the release of Hive 2, the new Starcraft 2 section will make it's debut.
So stay tuned. It's nearing completion

 

[Anachron]

Honestly, I rather revive WC3 Modding than get used to SC2. :/

 

[Rui]

With the release of Hive 2, the new Starcraft 2 section will make it's debut.
So stay tuned. It's nearing completion

We've heard that quite a few times now. Any guesses to the date?

 

[busterkomo]

We've heard that quite a few times now. Any guesses to the date?

Soon™.
------------------
A dedicated SC2 section (that isn't terrible like the current one), may renew my interest in SC2 modding or at least the hive in general.

Then again, SC2 ladder is still pretty damn fun.

 

[Adiktuz]

and the fact that Wc3 is cheaper than SCII... not every modder can afford it... and the fact that modding is more complicated...

most modders doesn't really want to do some super high class map [that are doable only in SCII] but rather just simple, fun to play maps...

 

[Napoqe]

and the fact that Wc3 is cheaper than SCII... not every modder can afford it... and the fact that modding is more complicated...

most modders doesn't really want to do some super high class map [that are doable only in SCII] but rather just simple, fun to play maps...

Truth. The DotA 1 was formerly well. And also liked "Anime Fight" that it was a map of anime that used models was of the Warcraft.

 

[Adiktuz]

but SCII can probably be popular modding wise, if more people get to work on it... though it might be hard...

 

[Statharas]

Soon™.
------------------
A dedicated SC2 section (that isn't terrible like the current one), may renew my interest in SC2 modding or at least the hive in general.

Then again, SC2 ladder is still pretty damn fun.

Leave it to meh!

 

[Rui]

Soon™.
(...)

Old joke. We could also take some advantage of the fact that the Hive isn't Blizzard. We're family friendly, damnit. Give us some spoilers.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

I hope there will be tutorials on hive, about getting onto sc2 modding :/ Damn it's as hard as when using warcraft 3 editor for the 1st time, took me 4 years before I started using triggers and stuff.

That said I wont open the editor before I find some hive tutorials on using it, as I always prefer tutorials found here than anywhere else

 

[Ralle]

I hope there will be tutorials on hive, about getting onto sc2 modding :/ Damn it's as hard as when using warcraft 3 editor for the 1st time, took me 4 years before I started using triggers and stuff.

That said I wont open the editor before I find some hive tutorials on using it, as I always prefer tutorials found here than anywhere else

Nestharus already made plenty of those I believe.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Nestharus already made plenty of those I believe.

Oh, he, did? Gonna take a look when I've time.

 

[Tleno]

I may consider creating some terrain templates to upload here, actually... or practice making icons!

 

[Kyrbi0]

On a third note: history. The strictness of standards has been tried before — WC3Campaigns. Nowadays, the site is deserted. Why? Because people preferred more lenient standards, so Hive won the duel.

That's really not why Wc3C died. Yes, it's got much less resources, but on average, those resources are of much higher quality. A community dies when people stop believing in it and going to it. While I was gone for that interim (off on my mission), I have read & studied to understand why it went down like it did.

It's strange, actually; there was no real indication of it falling apart. Community was active, posts being made... Heck, there was even the 4th in a line of previously-quite-successful (Hero) contests going on at the time. But an influential administrator got fed up for one reason or another, and decided to call it quits. I say "influential" because I don't think any of us recognized exactly how much he gave of himself to keeping things going.

From that point on, my sources indicate that it rapidly spiraled into the declining slump it currently rests in. People still post (myself included), and some still do all their "modding" there (myself included), but... Sadly it's not as big as it used to be. Perhaps someday... But Wc3 isn't getting any younger.

*sniff*

I'm going to perform some changes to the submission rules of all resources that will probably direct half of our resources to the Needs Fix section. At least we'll have quality resources after that.

~

Quality>Quantity

While I agree with your premise, I don't think it should be applied here. One of the things that helps a community is to make it unique from others. And for me, having Wc3C vs. THW, it always made sense to me that one would be Quality and one would be Quantity. It helps THW to serve a purpose; that of accepting a greater variety of resources, that are still of reasonable (ehhhh) quality. Most especially, there are tons of quite useful resources that I know wouldn't have been accepted at Wc3C, but are more than useful to modders... Those resources need a place.

If anything, tighten the belt in terms of the judging system, or find a way to mark resources as "little/no changes, really just accepted because it might be useful", versus ones that have a lot more work put into them.

~

Just my two cents.

 

[RED BARON]

Wc3 modding will survive, however I am beginning to consider alternative means of creating something like an improved engine or another editor to function with SC2, or with its likeness in order to improve upon the modding scene with some tools that actually allows both beginners and pro's to create and have fun.

 

[Marshmalo]

Wc3 modding will survive, however I am beginning to consider alternative means of creating something like an improved engine or another editor to function with SC2, or with its likeness in order to improve upon the modding scene with some tools that actually allows both beginners and pro's to create and have fun.

I think something that simplifies the process of making SC2 maps and something that saves time would be well recieved. Most of the complaints about the galaxy editor seem to be thats it's overly complex and takes too long to design units when compared to the world editor.

 

[Rui]

(...) A community dies when people stop believing in it and going to it.
(...)
But an influential administrator got fed up for one reason or another, and decided to call it quits. I say "influential" because I don't think any of us recognized exactly how much he gave of himself to keeping things going. (...)

And adding to the first paragraph, activity stabilizes or increases if the community participates. It can't be said that the activity of wc3campaigns was community-driven if it rested on the shoulders of a single administrator. To me, it fell apart because people stopped participating because: 1) there was no one to participate with, and 2) there was nothing to participate in — note that, when I say «participate», I mean input, not just in contests.

Whereas in the Hive the high number of people allows for the social-driven areas (chat and Off-Topic) to be one of the most active parts of the site. What does this mean? Maybe that the right formula lies in attracting a high number of people that keep the site active in a sort of logarithmic relation.

I'm not saying the cause for Hive's prevailing lies solely in standards, but let's analyze the rest: does wc3campaigns have better forum structuring? No, it is similar to the Hive's. Does it have a more appealing forum skin? Maybe, at least it has one for every liking. Does it have better resources? Yes. Does it have less resources? Yes. Did it attract more people than the Hive? No. Why then did people pick the Hive over Wc3C?

 

[Xonok]

I think what the SC2 editor really needs is an "easy mode". Kind of like the RoC editor compared to TFT.

 

[Statharas]

Someone should make an editor for Starcraft 2 that is identical to Wc3's.

 

[Tleno]

Someone should make an editor for Starcraft 2 that is identical to Wc3's.

Ooor, we should bug Blizzard to create a special simplified SC2 editor mode that removes most of functions and handles them for you!

 

[BlinkBoy]

Ooor, we should bug Blizzard to create a special simplified SC2 editor mode that removes most of functions and handles them for you!

All you need to simplify is the Data editor. The rest is almost the same as in Wc3 but with some extra optionals.

 

[RED BARON]

All you need to simplify is the Data editor. The rest is almost the same as in Wc3 but with some extra optionals.

Agreed, the major annoyance is the data editor. However the trigger section also has some odd issues. Like two identical pieces of code that should work the same, however doesn't. Or functions that just cases to function though they worked before and the only thing one changed was saving the map again.

Ooor, we should bug Blizzard to create a special simplified SC2 editor mode that removes most functions and handles them for you!

I believe that would be a perfect idea... though as an option to be implemented as an addition, not as opposed to the other.

 

[Napoqe]

I have even seen the data editor. It is the main problem.
Impression my, or editor of Starcraft 2 needs to be restarted for the imports, functionate?

In my World Editor does not have to do that.

 

[BlinkBoy]

I have even seen the data editor. It is the main problem.
Impression my, or editor of Starcraft 2 needs to be restarted for the imports, functionate?

In my World Editor does not have to do that.

Well I don't have that problem with Sc2 editor, well mainly because I use Star Tools to commit on them, but no need for restart atleast on the model side.

 

[Linaze]

Right now, the modding activity should be at its peak, but it is (apparently) declining: several threads in SC2Map have been created around that issue.

Impossible to say this with any certainty before LotV is out, as we don't know what it may or may not bring the modding scene.

 

[Rui]

Perhaps. Time is also a factor. Even if SC2 modding suddenly became first-rate, I doubt I'd go back to it. First, people are busy with uni. Then, most stopped caring about SC2: the time to fix things is overdue. It is a little sad if Blizzard can only fix this game 5 or 6 years after its initial release.

For a less biased view, just compare Wings of Liberty to Heart of the Swarm sales. That also goes to show people's lack of faith in Blizzard.

 

[BlackEnvyX]

I'd just like to throw my two cents in on an issue that's been thrown around in this thread. People talking about how Warcraft III's community is "dying."

You guys don't need to worry, for multiple reasons.

1. Even Warcraft II still has a sizeable fanbase that play it and mod for it. I don't need to tell any of you guys how long that game's been around for.

2. As long as we keep having fun with it. It won't die. I'm gonna show my kids Warcraft III.

3. The modding community of Warcraft III won't dwindle much lower than what it's at now unless one of these things happen:

- Warcraft IV is released and has a map editing tool as good as or better than Warcraft III's map editor.
- They patch up SCII's editor and advertise that fact so that people will actually give it a look-over instead of just disregarding it.

Honestly, if Blizzard isn't working on Warcraft IV. I think a good financial move would be to make another expansion for Warcraft III. Think of it, it wouldn't cost nearly as much to develop as a Starcraft II expansion, it would give them a reason to advertise the game. They could sell a new (and slightly more expensive) battle chest that people would eat up (myself included) and they would rake in money. Not only would this help Blizzard's reputation (which has been marred by the continued disappointments of Diablo 3) but it would kick-start the modding community due to all of the extra materials that would probably be added to the World Editor and all the newbies who would come into the community.

 

[Linaze]

Warcraft III modding will not "die", so long as there's a demand to mod it. As simple as that.

Oh and to get back on the topic at hand: Isn't the very thread (in the news section) about the SC2 MMO evidence enough that calling SC2 modding as a whole a complete and utter failure incorrect?

 

[Rui]

Well, would you call WC3 modding a success due to Warcraft 3: World of Warcraft? The problem with these grand projects is that they always end up unfinished. It isn't the first to ask for tributes. I reckon it'll amount to nothing until I see otherwise.

 

[Linaze]

That people even attempt to make such massive projects goes to show there's a lot of interest and ambiiton in the modding scene. Whether these projects are completed or not are a completely different matter, I'd say. Most War3 projects were never completed either, and War3 modding was still a grand success.

 

[Lordkoon]

I always fear that when starting a starcraft2 project , a new expansion will come that will fuck up the editor, the map acceptance by the battle.net servers, change million things and make maps on older versions unplayable.

I don't know if that happened when HOTS was released but I got my reserves.

 

[BlackEnvyX]

I always fear that when starting a starcraft2 project , a new expansion will come that will fuck up the editor, the map acceptance by the battle.net servers, change million things and make maps on older versions unplayable.

I don't know if that happened when HOTS was released but I got my reserves.

That's also another reason why I haven't picked up Starcraft II yet. I'm not gonna pick it up until all the expansions are released and a bit of time has passed after the final (planned) expansion. That way they have time to work out all the bugs and such.

 

[Tleno]

That's also another reason why I haven't picked up Starcraft II yet. I'm not gonna pick it up until all the expansions are released and a bit of time has passed after the final (planned) expansion. That way they have time to work out all the bugs and such.

Geesh, it's not a Bethesda product to wait for that, not to mention there's 0.1 % chance you'll get a bug-free experience whatever you buy anyways.

Seriously, you may complain about storyline and about stagnating arcade, but there's absolutely no reason to worry about bugs.

 

[Statharas]

MEANWHILE

In the land of "I don't get what this thread is going on about,

 

[BlackEnvyX]

Geesh, it's not a Bethesda product to wait for that, not to mention there's 0.1 % chance you'll get a bug-free experience whatever you buy anyways.

Seriously, you may complain about storyline and about stagnating arcade, but there's absolutely no reason to worry about bugs.

The ironic thing is that I bought Skyrim on release day. See with Skyrim and Bethesda, I know there will be bugs but I also know that they will patch them up as soon as they are discovered almost (either that or several days afterword.) I don't mod for Skyrim however. I mod for Warcraft III and if I bought Starcraft II, it would be for the purpose of creating mods. If a game is likely to get an expansion that would flip around the modding experience and make efforts I had done either outdated, bugged or useless, there's no point in me buying the product yet.

 

[RED BARON]

it would be for the purpose of creating mods. If a game is likely to get an expansion that would flip around the modding experience and make efforts I had done either outdated, bugged or useless, there's no point in me buying the product yet.

Yea, I also bought HOTS for modding purposes, though I bought SC2 just to play it.

In regards to Bethesda I believe that the first patch they made for skyrim actually created more bugs But that was due to the lovely DRM.

 

[BlackEnvyX]

Yea, I also bought HOTS for modding purposes, though I bought SC2 just to play it.

In regards to Bethesda I believe that the first patch they made for skyrim actually created more bugs But that was due to the lovely DRM.

Honestly, I played Skyrim just vanilla for about six months to let the modding community get on its feet before I hopped on board to the Nexus to download a bunch of epic mods for the game, and other than a few crashes after maybe 30 to 40 hours of gameplay I really didn't have any problems. (Admit it, the flying giant and floating mammoths aren't problems, those are just amazing XD)