Evolution!

[Jetherit]

I'm studying evolution in school right now and I wondered how accurately I could reproduce it in a game. All players would start with a small population of animals with many different genes (which would be represented by abilities). Since evolution is based on exploitation of advantageous mutations in genes, the gene mutations that are most utilized will become more pronounced and the unused will becom vestigial. This could be achieved using many ranks of abilities that differ very slightly from one rank to the next. If anyone has any elaboration on this concept, I would like to hear it. It was just an idea but I think I would fun doing it because I really enjoy making conceptual maps as opposed to mindless hero arenas.

 

[ViralHatred]

I had a concept once when you had an creature/animal with abilities, once you leveled up a level you could "evolve" into a new creature/animal which you chose.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

Have you ever played darwins island? Its kinda like this I think.

 

[Jetherit]

Yes, my friend told me it was something like Darwin's Island, however I want it to emulate evolution more effectively. So much so that unused abilities will devolve.

 

[Sephiroth74]

This is like spore combined with Darwin's island.

It's pretty cool idea, but it will need something exciting to it to compete with "Mindless hero arenas" lol

 

[Jetherit]

I have never played Spore. What is it like? Maybe I could get some idea from it and elaborate on them.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Spore - A eveloution based "sim" game in development by Will Wright which should eventually come out (should have been released 2 years ago).

WC3 is not really the best game for such a concept, I recomend eithor making your own game or just being happy with spore that should be out latter this year (do not count on it thou).

 

[iristle]

Spore is still in development, but it looks wicked from the screenshots, look it up on google.

Rats, DSG got there before me.

 

[Eleandor]

WC3 is not really the best game for such a concept, I recomend eithor making your own game or just being happy with spore that should be out latter this year (do not count on it thou).

WC3 is a better game for this kind of maps than for e.g. shoot-em-up maps or racegames...
I think that if you implement the evolution thing well, this might be an enjoyable map!

Try to elaborate more: what type of genes are you thinking off? What are you playing? A mutating creature or perhaps more something like spore where you can eventually create a tribe and start a civilisation if your brains evolve?

 

[Redeemer59]

Sounds neat. If you can figure out how to do it, I say go ahead. You might have trouble with the vestigial parts, though, since I dunno if there's a way to detect how often/much an ability is used. And Darwins Island never really did it for me, I never understood how one went from a Murloc to a Centaur to a Harpy to a giant Crab.

 

[Wizardum]

I was wondering around Hive and I found this idea. I'm interested in this type of map.
I know that this sub-forum isn't for recruiting people, but I wish to help on this project.
Probably you will make the triggers of this map in JASS and it would be a good way to teach, what do you think?

 

[Jetherit]

Wiz, I would love to have some help in this. For now though, it's merely in planning stage. I'm already working on another map as a friend's birthday present >_>. And Redeemer, everything can be recorded o_o.
Thanks for your input, pplz.

 

[robot-dude]

Why don't you do it but allow people to eat each other ingame.

Lvl 1 cells
Lvl 2 x2 Cells
continue till u have 10x Cells and then change into a random creature and continue up the evolution time chart.

And in my eyes this would be a fun game.

 

[Jetherit]

Um, Robot-Dude, it kinda isn't going to be made with cells. You're going to start with, you know, a normal animal. Then evolve from there. And not by eating things either. Maybe you can get cancer ingame if you eat a raw clam, but not evolve.

 

[Lord Raszul]

Hi
first i want to say that I've thought about this kinda idea before myself.
I went so far as to think and plan the triggers and code required to create it and decided against it becouse of the sheer amont of work for the relativ spare result...

However if you want to create that map - here are some small, conceptual thoughts I had about it. Maybe you can put them to use.

improvement of abilities
you can only check active abilities for beeing used well.
If you want to check a passive one, than you have to check for it's effect rather than itself.
e.g. a movement-enhancment passive should cound as used whenever the position of the unit changes by at least x units. The more it changes the stronger the ability is used.
An ability that tiggers uppon attacking should count as used whenever attacking - whether it triggers or not (you learn from your errors as well, don't ya?)

In order to track this for an unknown number of units you'll need to use gamecache as well as returnbug functions. (if you have questions about these I'll try to show you)

decrease in capability
make each ability level using some kind of "xp" (or up - usage points ^^). If you do it that way, you can slowly decrease the xp of all skills (like 1/second) and adjust the level acordingly -1 level = ability loss

evolution
if you only make tha abilities adjust to usage, the map will be boring.
therefore you need to grant the possibility to mutate to other creatures or maybe even plants.
I suggest making a morph accessible as soon as a certain level combination of the units abilities exists and make the mutation automatic once a level treshhold has been exceeded.
That way the player can somewhat control his evolution (as he might want to - even though its against darwin) but still have to evolve eventually.

relearning
once an ability is lost there is - with the above beeing accepted - no way to rearchive an ability.
that is basically bad - a player might see an ability to be unatractive in his early steps of evolution, but it might come in handy - and evolutionary reasonable - later on.
I suggest not to remove abilities but to make them redundand - they still receive usage points and loose them, but at a dramatically reduced rate (10% or something like that). That way they might come back active (i suggest allowing that only in combination with a mutation) if the player uses the requirements for them often enough.

ability combos
another interesting feature would be abilities which only are accessible once a certain level in certain abilities has been reached. These abilities shall be more complex ones which inherit elements from all their "parent" skills.



mh...
thats as much as I want to say right now. maybe I'll come back later on, but I doubt that I'll add more ideas of my own - I'll keep an eye on this nevertheless.

- Lord Raszul

 

[Eleandor]

My brainstorming
1) Goal of this map
This is rather a question towards the OP.
A possibility I can think of is giving every player an amount of creatures, let's say 2. Then the goal is to become the best predator, being a dominant creature in the evolutionary line.
This however would limit the posibilities. For instance: You can't become a plant (though this sounds rather boring imo), but you also can't really become a herbivore, as they would lose their lifes faster when they're facing a predator. Perhaps another gamemechanic is required for this.
I am however of the opinion that there should be some sort of goal. A map without victoryconditions is a bit empty imo...

2) Starting - Evolving
My suggestion is that you start as some sort of fishy creature in the water.

Depending on what you do (such as staying in deep water or staying near the shore), eventually you become a more powerful seamonster or perhaps you evolve in some sort of murlocish creature and take your first steps on the land. Landcreatures can - again depending on what they do) become birds. Water < land < air are the 3 main branches. Becoming one of the 3 types of animals requires sacrifices. If you've been evolving towards a sea-giant (as in a sea monster, not the warcraft 3 unit), in order to still change your creature's destiny (e.g. if you've been evolving in the water for so long, but you still want to become a landcreature), you must take some sacrifices, such as removing all your abilities you've worked so hard for. In other words: while it's possible, it won't be worth the efford to change your "branch" late-game.

You can also evolve the other way. A bird might try to evolve towards a landcreature, but it also has to pay a price, such as 2 wings he can't use to fly, which only slows him down.

3) The evolution
A creature has 2 main properties:
- Attributes: Such as Constitution (HP), Intelligence (late-game this can prove useful as you might be able to harvest resources and create primitive weapons), Mass, ...
- Abilities: These are activelly used. As said in previous posts, these become more powerful the more you use them. Certain abilities / attributes might require a certain level before you can "morph" into another creature. For instance: a sea creature starts at low mass (attribute), and can become very heavy. A landcreature however doesn't have water as a support, and can't be as heavy, unless it becomes as large as an elephant. Finally, an aircreature has to be near the lowest mass possible.

4) Breeding
Every creature can only evolve 1 time in its life. It can however breed (depending on your evolution you'll require a partner) in order to create more creatures. This increases your survival chances against predators.
Every creature also has a timed life. Creatures age, it's as simple as that.

more will come, can't think about it now

 

[Los_Tacos]

I'm already making a map that simulates evolution (very much unlike Darwin's Island). It's called Crabs Take Over The Island, based on the short science fiction story. Basically you start with a mechanical crab, and you fight up to 11 other players. When one crab kills another crab, it automatically rebuilds the fallen crab in its own image, but with slight mutations. It could either go up a level or down a level. There are also 12 abilities that can be learned and strengthened or forgotten, depending on natural selection to choose which are most useful. At level 5 you become a Greater Crab, at level 10 you become a Mutant Crab, and at level 15 you become a Greater Mutant. This map is still in progress but I'd say I could call it complete whenever I feel like it.

I actually just started a thread about this in the other forum. Here it is.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/showthread.php?p=452354#post452354

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

Her idea is better.

Evolving would need lots of branches, like burrowers, large creatures that are strong and slow, small creatures that are weak and fast.

Maybe start as creature in a nest, and its on a cliff above water. so there you can choose to evolve into a water creature, dive into the water, flier, jump off the cliff towards land, or walk out of nest and climb down cliff for land walker.

Like idea water creatures could gain walking on land but only for limited time, because they dry up eventually. Flying types could walk too but get a decrease in stats.

 

[Jetherit]

Hmm, thank you all for your ideas. I think I have just about enough to make a map. Now all I need is time :<
Elenai, your idea would work well, I was thinking something along the lines of making players make different breeds of animals, and the ones that mades the most complementary animals would win. I would make the single breeds weak alone, so multiple lines would be necesary.

 

[DarkTrojan]

1. Creature types. Lets say what your creature is reptile, as you now its cold-blooded, so at night it will be more slower and at the day qiucker when normal. Mammals give to birth their cubs, birds and reptiles lay eggs wich thei must guard. Some of them may need to find pair to birth creatures or just be Hermophrodites. OR
it may be bird giving birth to their young whole.
2.Enviromental abilities. if your animal lives in mountains it could jump after some time, or if your animal lives in shalow water it could swim an so on...
3.Mutations(rare). on birth some creatures may get special abilities (like posion or give more cubs...) this abilities may be given to their young. some mutations may be negative, (weaknes, slowness...) but thei just unlock some special abilities.

And Eleandor Not all players want to be predators, some herbivores is very dangerous
like hipopotamus it even stronger when lion

This is for now...
Edit:
4.Other animals. AI controled units like herbivores or predators they too evolve but more slower then HUMAN players.
5.Life style. some animals are loners, some live in pack or some make colonies with high hierarchy (like ants). Thei get bonuses if live in that style
6.Diseases. they affect animals wich weaker their abilities, spread to other,and so on...
7.Hunger. Animal needs to feed! he will become weaker and weaker until it dies..

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

Also Rhinos, Gorillas(unless they are omnivores), which could give idea omnivores eat plants or meat, meat they get more health from though.