Do you Believe In Aliens?

[GST_Nemisis]

Omg GST_Nemesis makes my brain hurt... .

lol sorry i dont mean to but this subject is of much intrest to me and it links in with chemistry and biology which i am intrested in.

Before we even think about looking for alien life i wouls say humanity should colonize a new planet. That way our race would have a chance to survive long enough to try it someday.

we are looking for alien life right now as we speak. the SETI project is the search for extra-terrestrial intelligence collective which aims to do just as its title says. they mainly use radio telescopes to try and receive radio transmission from space which is cheap and is generally agreed as quite effective because inteligent life would probably learn how to use electro-magentic communications. so far not much has been found but the WOW signal is still very famous to this day.

another search is the probe that NASA are planning on sending to europa, i havent been following this so i dont know what happening but last time i read predictions for its launch were around 2015. it was going to use a nuclear reactor to make heat to melt the ice and get into the liquid subcore to explore for any lifeforms.

there are some other small collectives, projects and organisations that are seriously investing into looking for alien life forms because its actually quite cheap when considering the tools used are radio telescopes, probes or light telescopes. sending humans to colonise another planet currently is unecessary and hugely expensive, even sending humans into space is about 10x more than a single probe which could get 100x more useful information. not only that but becuse there are no resources worth getting or real scientific intresting which couldnt be done with probes human space travel to celistial bodies is discouraged. bush or clinton said something about colonising mars or the moon or something but when thought about it realistically it is totally unecessary and rather pointless considering the estiamted billions it would cost.

i would love to see humans colonise other planets, but its currently very expensive and unecessary, there are also saftey and sociological issues. when we get a space elevator perhaps, or if we were to find an economical way of terra-forming mars. until that time its just not a good idea.

 

[lorothrigs]

We're already planning on colonizing the moon.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/04/AR2006120400837.html

 

[GST_Nemisis]

yeh i heard about that, so pointless in my opinion.

 

[DarkKnight]

Hmm i dont think that there is liquid water on a gass giant, but maby (the most possible thing) that there are more layers, the core, (sometimes solid, but is possible to be gass 2) middle layers (the heavier gasses) then there is a habitable layer, most likely to consist of oxigen nitrogen and water vapors (if I'm right, Oxigen and nitrogen is what we need ot breath right?) and then there is the upper storm layer, wich is very dence and always storming (I've made this in the immage of Jupiter)

 

[GST_Nemisis]

on a larger scale there may be gass giants with liquid water, we dont really know. neptune or uranus might even have liquid water, but im sure there are some outside our solar system which are the correct conditions. as i said before we dont know how life starts so as long as there is water anything could happen. on jupiter its unlikely there is life because the atmosphere is so unstable.

 

[DarkKnight]

I know but I used it as a example, now another sugestion, do you think that spaceborn aliens could exist? living on space debris and so on?

 

[GST_Nemisis]

if the conditions were correct i dont see why not, i know ceres which is the smallest dwarf planet in our solar system has a liquid water layer which could support life if a form; if life was there that could survive in low temperatures. ceres is basically an astroid which is in the astriod belt that has certain planet like characteristics. is unlikely life would survive here becuase of the low temperatures but its possible.

as a rule of thumb, if there is water there is a chance of life but unless there are the basic requirements such as heat and the chemicals required, its is unlikely life will be there. however like everything in this topic its all speculatory, we dont actually know, for example silicon based life might need other requirements. so to answer you question yeh im sure life could survive on astriods or whatever but only if the conditions are right.

 

[DarkKnight]

News message, water is not needed, creatures found that live without water but live from rock's called extremofiles (or something in that sense)

 

[GST_Nemisis]

all life needs water, i know what you mean like Endolith organisms but all life on earth needs water, even if very little to survive. this is because it is used in protien sythesis and metabolism. why do you think there is no life on the moon? life might not need oxygen, or a ph of 7 or high/low temperatures but it does need water (so far as we know). if you dont believe me search wikipedia or google for proof (non-research) of an organism that does not need water for metabolism.

 

[DarkKnight]

Ok ok I believe you, but I still have no answer to my question if you think space-born aliens are able to exist?

 

[GST_Nemisis]

what do you mean by space born?

 

[DarkKnight]

Born in space, They get born in space live in space and die in space.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

i suppose if an alien life form had the correct insterstellar technology i dont see why not. its probably possible that a pregnant (human) woman could give birth if they were in a space ship right now. NASA might have done some experiments on space birthing with other animals, try a web search.

 

[DarkKnight]

I mean in the vaquem of space not in a space ship

 

[GST_Nemisis]

well an organism will need some kind of energy source and so it will probably need some kind of material to cling onto, it will probably need some materials for mass building so unless there is some material that its floating on in space (even if there is no atmosphere and a vaccum) probably not. of course there could be a lifeform that is born in a born and grows on a planet but only uses solar energy. its a hard question to answer.

 

[DarkKnight]

'k, what if he eats astroids? and gets energy from a star? than it could you say?

 

[GST_Nemisis]

well theres no knowing what could be possible, i mean plants harness energy form the sun but require carbon dioxide, oxygen, water and various minerals from the soil. if an creater could substitute those materials for other materials but still harness energy from a star i guess anything is possible.

 

[DarkKnight]

Lets see, I think he doesnt need Carbon Dioxide, Oxigen might just be in nebula's water, maby from comets and those other things they get from astroides and debris

 

[HisDivineShadow]

If you are talking about the possibility of a space born organism, than you might consider the Kupiter-belt as a nice habitat. Basically from just outside the orbit of Pluto to about halfway to the nearest star there is this whole range of ice comets and other such objects orbiting our sun. There is even what appears to be a cloud of dust (yes dust) caught in our sun's orbit. The life would have to have a very slow metabolism to be able to survive from the small amount of energy from our sun that reaches it, but it is possible.

On another note, some Earth-born extremophiles have been proven to survive in the vacuum of space. Consider that these things are able to survive in the deepest bowls of the earth and the sunless depths of the oceans and even in the boiling water of hot springs. These micro organisms kick everything else's ass when it comes to surviving. Also consider that just about 65 million years ago the Earth was struck by a meteor that hurled debris into space (and likely countless extremophiles with it). These chunks of rock will have reached about halfway through our Kupiter-belt by now. If the life on them could survive and evolve in space, or perhaps survive re-entry into atmosphere, than life from Earth might have spread across the solar system by now. What if some of those rocks landed on Europa? There are lifeforms on earth capable of surviving temperatures colder than any that would be found on that frozen world, even on the surface. And they would still be able to receive sunlight. Eventually such life would reach the liquid seas beneath the icy surface.

The Earth is alike a single grain of sand, out of all of the beaches and coastlines of the world. That is a comparison to our galaxy. There are over a hundred thousand galaxies THAT WE CAN SEE. No doubt there are many more that we cannot. And for those who gave odd figures earlier about the size of the universe, I don't think that is correct. In the late 70's we had two references for the expansion of the universe, and we guessed that the universe was over 9 billion years old. A few years ago a satellite found us a third reference point, and we now know that the universe is about 13.5 billion years old. Given that nothing moves faster than the speed of light, and that the universe expands from a single point. The ABSOLUTE maximum that the universe can be is a sphere with a 13.5 billion light year radius.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,

HisDivineShadow

 

[GST_Nemisis]

well said, alot of good and useful information!

On another note, some Earth-born extremophiles have been proven to survive in the vacuum of space.

water bears have already been proven to survive in complete vaccums, as have many bacteria. their ability to form spores means they can "hibernate" in a vaccum for many years.

And for those who gave odd figures earlier about the size of the universe, I don't think that is correct.

that was probably me and i probably ripped those figures from wikipedia. i understand what you are saying about the speed of light and i agree but there are alot of theories out there which attempt to understand the size of the universe which say it is bigger. i cannot explain this but there are people who supposedly can, whther they are right or not is another debate all together.

 

[DarkKnight]

hmmm Talking about size, maby it could've bin that there were more big bangs, thent there are more spawn points and bigger universe, but can extremophiles (the same as in the ice) also stand the radiation from jupiter? altrough there are extremophiles found inside a nuclear reactor Yes a nuclear reactor, that doesnt mean that ALL extremophiles can survive it, so could it be possible for life to be on the surface of jupiter's moon europe?

 

[GST_Nemisis]

hmmm Talking about size, maby it could've bin that there were more big bangs, thent there are more spawn points and bigger universe

i havent ever heard of such a theory, i think that there is probably a reason why only one could ever possibly happen at a single time instead of many in the same universe, but im nor sure, search wikipedia it might know. there is a theory which suggests a cycle of big bangs where the universe collapses in on itself and then another big bang happens, restarting it all.

so could it be possible for life to be on the surface of jupiter's moon europe?

extremophiles is just the general name given to organisms that can survive extreem conditions, just as terrestrial organisms live on land, its just a name. there are many different types such as those that live in heat and those that live in cold, but if they were swapped conditions both would die because they are not adapted for anything else.

life would probably not live on the surface because the water is frozen and there arent any of the other chemical required to make life happen there, water alone is not enough especially when its frozen.

 

[DarkKnight]

Thats what I meant, and Europe does has sunlight (faint but it has) there are extremophiles known to live in (or I mean hibernate) in extreme cold and live after unfreazing but further I don't know about the surface but there could be life under the ice

 

[HisDivineShadow]

Sorry for reviving this thread, but I thought Nemisis and Dark deserved a response.

The radiation from Jupiter is minimal. Far less than what is emitted from our own sun. In point of fact that radiation might allow such organisms as extremophiles to survive on Europa's surface. Another point worth mentioning is the reproduction rate of bacteria can be as small as 11 minutes. Every 11 minutes all the bacteria in a culture divide and there are twice as many. Admittedly, without sexual reproduction evolution is slower, but at that rate in just a few hours they might have adapted (given that there would be upwards of a billion organisms in a single rock trying to out compete each other evolutionarily). That's just one rock, mind. Even with slow evolution, there is much diversity even in a single organism. Look at humans. We come in all sizes and colors. Bacteria have the same individual uniqueness. The chances that any of the bacteria evolving perfection are slim, but evolving a survivable form? THAT is entirely possible.

There is also the origins of life to consider. The Urey-Miller experiment showed that the chemical composition of life can be formed by natural events during the birth of a world. It has been proposed in the past that the life on Earth originated elsewhere in the universe, and merely landed here and evolved from a singular bacteria. That is possible, though I personally believe that life formed on Earth by itself.

The size of the universe is known. Let me explain how. We found the edge of the universe. Big deal, right? Well, because of the shift in the light spectrum (ever heard of red shift?) it is in fact the largest discovery about that nature of our universe yet made. Basically, the VISIBLE light from the edge of the universe (a line of pulsars moving outward at about 9/10ths the speed of light) is redshifted. This means that they are moving away from us. We found another edge of the universe in a different direction, and another in yet another direction (the three reference points). With just two points we could not be sure, but with three points we can have absolute certainty of the universe's age. This shows that the universe is expanding outward. Going back in time gives us the fact that at the very beginning, our universe originated from a single point. Forgoing all other explanations for the current state of the universe, and there are many, we can see the big bang in progress. Though we have only really looked at about one ten billionth of our universe, we can make good guesses about what we will find elsewhere.

Now, we need a fourth reference point to confirm that the universe is spherical, because it is impossible to tell that with just three (it might be a honeycomb for all we can PROVE right now). To quote a good movie. The universe is so very big, and we are so very small. If we are all that exists, than what a spectacular waste of space.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

The radiation from Jupiter is minimal. Far less than what is emitted from our own sun. In point of fact that radiation might allow such organisms as extremophiles to survive on Europa's surface.

Europa strives to assume a slightly elongated shape pointing towards Jupiter in response to the tidal force of the giant planet; because different parts of Europa end up being on different points of this departure from sphericity at varying times, the crust flexes up and down. This motion dissipates energy from Jupiter's rotation into Europa (tidal heating), giving the moon a source of heat and energy, allowing the subsurface ocean to stay liquefied and driving subsurface geological processes. It has been suggested that life may exist in this under-ice ocean, perhaps subsisting in an environment similar to Earth's deep-ocean hydrothermal vents but it would be impossible for life to survive on the surface because life as far as we know needs liquid water to survive.

The size of the universe is known. Let me explain how.

everything you say regarding the size of the universe relates to the observable universe, the acutal size of the universe may be any size from the known limit of the observable universe to infinity. this can be justified on the grounds that we can never know anything about any part of the universe that is causally disconnected from us. no one believes, however, that the observable universe is precisely the entire universe; that would imply that the earth is exactly at the center of the universe, violating a fundamental assumption of astronomy (and indeed all of science). it is likely that the galaxies within our visible universe represent only a minuscule fraction of the galaxies in the universe.

the comoving distance from the earth to the edge of the visible universe is about 46.5 billion light-years in any direction; this is the comoving radius of the visible universe. it is sometimes quoted as a diameter of 92-94 billion light-years, considering the visible universe is a perfect sphere.

Common Misconception:

The age of the universe is about 13.7 billion years. While it is commonly understood that nothing travels faster than light, it is a common misconception that the radius of the observable universe must therefore amount to only 13.7 billion light-years. This would make sense in the flat spacetime of special relativity. But in the real universe spacetime is highly curved at cosmological scales (general relativity), and light does not move rectilinearly. If a distance is obtained from the product of the speed of light times a cosmological time interval, it has no direct physical significance.

 

[UchihaSasuke.gr]

Dont Revive Old Threads!!!leave Them Alone!!!this Might Affect Your Rep!!!

 

[GST_Nemisis]

Dont Revive Old Threads!!!leave Them Alone!!!this Might Affect Your Rep!!!

was it really neccessary to make that comment? im sure HisDivineShadow has read the rules and whatever but if this thread has been revived, for whatever reason, dont just spam in it.

sorry if what im posting now is spam but stuff like this pisses me off, and ive been pissed off enough already today.

 

[Kivenmage]

Wether you agree us or not, aliens ARE real. The universe is vast, anything is possible. Heck, maybe even there are more humans out there or extremely smart turtles!

 

[GST_Nemisis]

maybe even there are more humans out there

in the film evolution they imply that humans are the ultimate organism by how the creatures evolve into primates eventually no matter what they were in the past. this is probably a false assumption but as you said, anything is possible.

 

[Kivenmage]

Personal expirences:

1.Well me and my friends were walking in willows, were there was a buch of willow trees, then lots of bushes, and finally a shallow river. Well after we shifted our way out of the bushes we saw a metalic oval thing that was sitting on the water, just stting there with no ripples in the water. We watched it for a while and then the thing flew up went to the right and then up the left and it disappeared.

2.I was in the family car, we were driving down to Prescute, AZ and we were in the desert. Course I was bored playing my DS so I starred up into the sky. Normaly the clouds were moving, then I saw 3 bright green flashes and the whole section where the flashes flashed the sky just bent in then back out wobbled and went back to normal. Strange.

3.(This is a friends story so I will use I for him) I woke up and climbed out of my bed to get a drink of water. I was bored so I looked out the window. I saw a saucer like object glowing green, red, and yellow. Shocked I kept watching it. Soon it lifted up and flew over the nearby mountians really fast, after that I went back to bed.

 

[DarkKnight]

You know, We (humans) first thought that our land was the only place their existed, then they thought their continent was the only thing, then they thought the earth, then our solar system (half of it) then our galaxy then the now known universe, so do you realy believe that, those pulsars realy are the edge? maby the light has to travel so far that he just gets seeëble after 10 years but is there already for 10.000 years or something like that, Don't pull conclusions too quick, (and whats wrong with reviving posts? Is necromancy illegal? ^^)

 

[Xzife_TD01]

I do believe aliens are real...I find it VERY hard to think that out of the billions and billions of planets out there, that ours is the only one with life on it, to me its just not possible.

Aside from that I had an experience of my own that made me believe. I was riding in the car with one of my friends and my nephew, and my nephew looked out the back window and said "theres a light following us" and the whole way home he was whining about this light that wouldnt stop following us. When we finally got home, we took and looked through a pair of binoculars, and I saw what looked like an upside-down umbrella with lights outlining it.
We watched it for like 3 hours and it eventually just slowly drifted down past the horizon. My aunt called an astronomer and described what we had seen, and he replied with
"Oh your just seeing Venus in the Summer sky..."

 

[GST_Nemisis]

"Oh your just seeing Venus in the Summer sky..."

venus is said to look like an upside-down umbrella with lights outlining it in summer.

the only thing about aliens on earth which dont make sense to me is A. there are so many different experiences which often conflict and B. why would aliens travel billions of miles just to scare people? or fly around randomly not actually doing much?

 

[Paapuli]

Actually because the bible itself never mentions nothing of any outerspace forms or life, i'v got to admit that there are no such things.
Such videos can be made in your own cellar if you are just to have the potential for it.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

i'm not religious, so i take the big bang point of view. there is a fairly big chance there may be extraterrestrial life, however the chances the life being humanoid, PLUS travel millions of light years across the stars just to land on earth... slim doesn't even fit this situation.

 

[DarkKnight]

The would travel millions of lightyears if we were the closest (or only) discovered planet that could sustane life. They just might be just as curious or even more curious obout us, and they might have the tech and/or the luck to have a wormhole nearby^^

 

[GST_Nemisis]

millions of lightyears

ok well consider this, by the time they reach us, even at 99.999% the speed of light, they still would have aged hundreds of years in their space ship. say they could hibernate, well by the time they reach us their civilisation has aged 1 million years and may not exist anymore. say the aliens are looking at us right now. they arent seeing us, they are seeing earth as it was 1 million years ago, so there are lots of mammoths or other ancient creatures about. and thats only over 1 million light years, if they were 65 million light years away they would be looking at dinosoars.

worm holes are theory, at the moment the only proven way for any aliens to reach us would be by travelling millions of light years.

 

[xXx-Tricky-xXx]

I bet Aliens are life forms that were created by god before humans, like a prototype? and something went wrong like forgetting to give them souls. (OOPS?) Now they want revenge and are planning to take over Earth... but thats just my 2 cents.

BTW Nem- Maybe they can go FASTER than the speed of light. Theres already ways to move faster than the speed of light. I read about it somewhere but forget exactly what it was, recent new discover around beggning of year.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I bet Aliens are life forms that were created by god before humans, like a prototype? and something went wrong like forgetting to give them souls. (OOPS?) Now they want revenge and are planning to take over Earth... but thats just my 2 cents.

BTW Nem- Maybe they can go FASTER than the speed of light. Theres already ways to move faster than the speed of light. I read about it somewhere but forget exactly what it was, recent new discover around beggning of year.

1. Assuming god exists and 2. Yes, there have been ways to make things faster than light, but what kind of life undergoes that kind of transportation???

 

[GST_Nemisis]

BTW Nem- Maybe they can go FASTER than the speed of light. Theres already ways to move faster than the speed of light. I read about it somewhere but forget exactly what it was, recent new discover around beggning of year.

theres alot of evidence saying alot of things. i am aware of at least 3 things that contridict the general theory of realitivity, but i am also away of things which contridict wormholes. its all theory. everything is.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

theres alot of evidence saying alot of things. i am aware of at least 3 things that contridict the general theory of realitivity, but i am also away of things which contridict wormholes. its all theory. everything is.

Well, anything can happen, technically. Your entire life might just be this illusion played by hooking you up to technology nowhere near the technology we have right now. Perhaps your entire life was a test played by an existant god. What-ifs make everything a theory, except for the fact that I exist. The only thing we can do is concentrate on the material world at hand.

 

[DarkKnight]

You know.. Maybe they have a faster way to exchange information. faster than the speed of light and that they have a cloaked satalite orbiting earth giving them DIRECT pictures of this, or they are just living on the planet gliese (some numbers) c, Thats not THAT far away is it?

And How do you know that you exist? (Oh I love Philosophy ^^)

 

[oh_snap]

Of course theres the possiblity of aliens. Its impossible to say there isnt other life out there. As for Philosophy, we can only speculate possiblities, little can be proven. All that matters is that even if you dont exist, your you and you have a life. Your actions will cause reactions, causing a ripple effect. It doesnt matter whether your tricked into thinking that this is real, like the matrix or some shit. It doesnt matter, for us it seems real, and thats all that matters. We can express oppions and reasoning, and plenty of other things. If my life wasnt real, I wouldnt want to know. I rather live my life always knowing that whatever I do effects people, for the best or the worst. I can freely express my emotions. All that truly matters is what we do, its always going to be that same thing for generations after us. How can we change the world? Simple as that. Speculating, accomplishes nothing. Because all of us see the world through a different perspective, we're going to disagree bout stuff like this. and like myspace said, "The only thing we can do is concentrate on the material world at hand."

 

[Hakeem]

I do have a religion (no, not athiest or pastafarian) and I also think that the big bang happened.
I am not going to talk like a scientist. What I say is technically not provable right now.

There are aliens. Life can be created and we know how. We know it can happen on other planets. The odds that there is or will be other life in the universe is 1:1.
It is possible to make organisms that could survive on a gas giant. The problem is that they would never evolve because the basic organism (from which all life evolves) would never be created on a gas giant.
Also, in order to make any kind of basic organism (using other elements than we use) you need those elements to be abundant. So, no, there is no such thing as space born life.
In order for intelligent life to evovle, you need a planet that can support large organisms. One of these organisms needs to evolve tool use so that a better brain would be a useful adaptation.
Intelligent life exists somewhere else in the universe.

Over the course of human history we have come close to really discovering electricity many, many times. (In fact, we have actually made the same civilization over and over many times.) I think the reason we found electricity was because the person that found it was free to explore it.
On a smaller planet the intelligent life might get stuck in the middle ages because the peasants never escape to a new land.
After electricity I think the progression of the discovery of everything progresses about the same for all intelligent life.
Intelligent life that has discovered radio technology exists elsewhere in the universe.

All intelligent life will begin to ponder wether or not life exists elsewhere in the universe. As they (and us too) discover new technology, they will send out probes and other things. They will throw out lots of stuff, some of it will just drift and others will probably search planets for life and atmosphere.
There will be some that send life too.

If we get life, we will all know.
Anything we have seen by now has been probes searching for planets with life. They (and us too) would build it to go to a planet and sample it for life, then leave.

I don't think they are much smarter than us, but I think they have dicovered more about the universe than we have.

Once again, this is all speculation, but I think it is close to the truth.

 

[DarkKnight]

Hmm sounds interesting ^^, And I think that we almost never see alien ships and so is becouse they are observing wile trying to be seen as less as possible, They might have technology that fools our sensors and radar and so on, The technology is close for us too you know, we can bow a sertain wave around a object, altrough that hasn't worked with light yet we will succeed in doing so, as they should've done I think.

Now a little Question about what you think ^^: If a Alien civilization about the early medieval times for them, What would happen if they discovered a wormhole gate to their moon (wich is habitable) from a race that visited their planet long ago or were even the inhabitants and didn't leave their planet with ships but with wormholegates?

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

And How do you know that you exist? (Oh I love Philosophy ^^)

I know i exist, because even if everything i believed in was a trick on my five senses, there has to be something to receive these tricks, and that's me. My thinking goes beyond whatever i smell, taste, see, touch, or hear. I think, therefore I am (cogito ergo sum).

Oh yeah, that alien autopsy video was actually created by ray santilli.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

I know i exist, because even if everything i believed in was a trick on my five senses, there has to be something to receive these tricks, and that's me.

i think therfore i am.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

i think therfore i am.

lol yeah. i actually got this entire concept from looking up "i think, therefore i am" on wikipedia.

 

[Hakeem]

DarkKnight:
I think the way that they are bending the microwaves is not how you would use it for a space ship, but it's a start. Why would they want to hide their probes? Aren't they searching for life like we are?

They would realize their earth is not flat, but they would see it as supernatural. It would give their churches power for sure. I don't think it would stop them from discovering electricity, but once science could explain it there would be lots of conflict.
I would very much like for wormhole technology to exist, but naturally occuring wormholes are not practical for use.


You're all wrong! I think therefore I am!

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

DarkKnight:
I think the way that they are bending the microwaves is not how you would use it for a space ship, but it's a start. Why would they want to hide their probes? Aren't they searching for life like we are?

They would realize their earth is not flat, but they would see it as supernatural. It would give their churches power for sure. I don't think it would stop them from discovering electricity, but once science could explain it there would be lots of conflict.
I would very much like for wormhole technology to exist, but naturally occuring wormholes are not practical for use.


You're all wrong! I think therefore I am!

you can't prove to me that you exist. i only know i exist, not you, not fairies, and though it pains me to say it, not ralle.