Creation of a new Pro Map Making crew

[04gusigo]

Ok, now lets get to the discussion of our project... The first idea that I like was brought up by Syleona... She wanted to make an Aol combined with RPG.
(exact words)
You must be careful and risk. But they won't be really able to conquer until they gather up equipment... And also, not all players will have to be workers... Teamwork. It's all about teamwork. One player crafts armor and weapons, other makes food and stuff like potions, and the others fight with the equipment they get from the suppliers. I don't want to limit how they can do things (I mean, no 2 craft 3 fight, they can do it as they want, because they can take any hero in the start and then play). Also, I don't want to make any time limits... The crafter can craft when they want, and anyone can anytime what they want. It's their problem if they don't take too much care about fighting. As I said, it's all about Teamwork... and tactics.
(Thanks you Syleona)
So what do you guys think?

 

[hellclown]

what model(s) would you need?

 

[04gusigo]

ones everyone agrees to a certain project, we will know what kind of models to make... So for know you can just write a reply to the topic I written above, it suggests which project we should do...
Also can you pm me your email plz? You are now in our team

 

[Volvox]

hmm... an experienced modeler should know such things... i think models are marked as .mdl or .mdx if it helps u

P.S.
i like the idea for the project

 

[Direfury]

Hm...I think we should add in a small bit of LoaP there, allow players to build up a certain look for their character (High Elven/Blood Elven,Human or Dwarven peasant start off) just to diversify the game,i'm talking like:
I have a Dwarven Peasant,but for a dwarven militia,we'll need to take all of the Alternate anims from a mountain king, remove one of the weapons and maybe touch up some places (Militia). Also, for the High Elven/Blood Elven militia,we could use a heavily editted Priest model with different anims, and just use the normal militia for the human peasants. If we follow the 'Militia' system we can boost their abilities in combat,just give the peasants an inactive 6 slot inventory and make sure that their militia forms have a Hero inventory (Peasant:Cannot use items;Militia:Can use items).

Now then,There should be some carefully crafted areas,which I could probably work on (A smithy (Blacksmithing), lumbermill(Fletching & Trapping Equipment), Keep (Use as a Crafting Centre). I also have an idea that can go through ALL of the processes, Forestrial Ore:
Forestrial Ore is an element used in my campaign map, it is formed amongst the most dense moss or likens in the region, and shares many of the same qualities as Thorium or Mithril.
First stage:Forestrial ore, take to the blacksmith for smelting.
Second stage:Forestrial bar, take to the keep for further crafting
Third stage:Forestrial (Item),take to the lumbermill for fitting.

Heres my ideas for Forestrial Weaponry & Armor:
Forestrial Cleaver, requires two forestrial bars and one piece of timber for the handle.
Forestrial Gauntlets, requires two forestrial bars,two bits of silk for the wrists and one piece of timber for the lining & decoration.
Forestrial Shortsword, requires one forestrial bar and one piece of timber for the handle.
Forestrial Mail, requires five forestrial bars,two bits of silk for flexibility and three pieces of timber for the shoulderplating.
Forestrial Helm, requires two forestrial bars and two pieces of timber for the plume.
Forestrial Defender, requires five forestrial bars,three pieces of timber for the lining and one bit of silk for the handle.

There should be secret Forestrial items like the "Vanguard" shield and the "Aegis" platebody, which've been reinforced or enchanted.

 

[04gusigo]

I like your idea about what items require, but I really dont think we should add that what was in your first paragraph(maybe I didnt get it?).

 

[Direfury]

Well we put our characters through stages:
Note:
Geomerged units are just what I hope will be used as a unit form
like for the humans they go through four stages, each group starts with Peasant.
Human stages:
Peasant - Uses peasant model,Militia model for Militant
Taskmaster - uses peasant model (given a bigger axe, new attack anims), uses Footman model for Militant
Footsoldier - Uses a geomerge model comprised of:Cloakless Rifleman body,Knights head,even bigger axe. Uses Footman model as Militant
Warrior - Reskinned Paladin model, uses reskinned Uther model as Militant

Details of the Warrior:
For the gold carrying thing,I say we just make an attachment to fit right on the paladins shoulder,maybe use the Lumbermill lumber as an attachment for when hes taking lumber into a lumbermill,just strap it on his back.
For the reskins I think we should give the two paladins a new armor color & style,aswell as 'dying' their hair black.

Details of the Footsoldier peasant:
Basically the same as the Warrior,except for the reskinning bit.

Elves:
Peasant - Uses Blood Elf or High Elf peasant model, uses the Captain/Swordsman model as Militant
Worksmith - Uses an editted Blood Elf/High Elf priest model with the same anims as a footman,attachment rules (gold bag & lumber strap) apply. Uses the Blood Elven Lieutenant model as Militant.
Entrusted - Uses a geomerged unit comprised of:Blood Mage arms & hands,Blood Mage shinguards & feet all fitted and added to the editted priest. Uses the Blood Elven Lieutenant model as Militant.
Patriarch - Uses a geomerged unit comprised of:Blood Mage arms & hands, Blood Mage shinguards & feet all fitted and added to a reskinned arthas with Spellbreaker head. Hopefully these edits will be added to a Death Knight for the Militant.

 

[Volvox]

hmm. that involves a lot of modeling, i like that. U think we could make different animations when units carry lumber or iron or whatever they'll carry like the one with peasants and ghouls carrying lumber?

 

[Syleona]

I have a lot of things about the items worked out. =)
The way you described it, it's similar to my way. Also, I would like to note, that the creation of the character depends.
Let me tell you more about my ideas :

- Items are attached, so when an item is equipped, it will be actually in the heroes hand, on it's chest, head ... etc. (this might be harder to model, but a pro map maker team should succeed. Also, I never saw a full attachment system before, and it would be a revolution to Wc3 )
- Items can be created by in map supporters, enchanters, blacksmiths etc.

---

The Suporter Hero


The Worker hero is used to :

- Gather resources
- Make healing/mana/stats/etc. potions
- Make custom armor and add it to the shop/stand, where everyone in the team can get it.
- Make custom weapon and add it to the shop, where everyone in the team can get it.
- Enchant weapons or armor (some weapons and armor can be enchanted)
- Make ingredients for other Workers
- Etc...

---

Also, I was thinking about the creation of the heroes, and here's what I've got. When you choose your hero, you gain certain bonuses depending on race. Also, you choose your main attribute. You don't choose professions, because you can do any of them... You just need the skills, blueprints, resources, tools... etc (and all what's needed to do something).

Various resources are spread across the map, and players must get it. Everyone can get the resource for self, but again, you can get it from a shop, or from another player. Under this, I mean a trading system... I am not sure is this make-able, but it would be good to have.

---

Also, some notes about the crafting of items:

I wish to make out the creation of items as detailed , and as close to the real way as possible. Under this, I mean, that if you want to make a sword, you'll need these :
- Sword Blueprint
- Blade Blueprint (yes, this may affect a lot when we talk about a sword)
- Handle Blueprint (yes, this may affect a lot when we talk about a sword)
- Skill to Use the Blueprint
- Metal Ore
- Wood
- Leather
- Jewel (if you want to make it enchant-able)
- Blacksmith Tools
- Skinner Tools
- Carpenter Tools

After you have the resources, the processes begins:
- Smelting the ore into (a) bar(s)
- Using a blacksmith tools with the metal : forge and anvil to shape the blade, then cool it in water.
- Use carpenter tools to make the handle from wood.
- Use skinner tools to make the leather part of the handle
- Use blacksmith tools to add jewel (if you want to make it enchant-able)
- Use blacksmith tools to complete the sword

This may sound long and complicated, but it's not required that a player must do all the listed things. In fact, the goal would be to form a good team, and work good and fast. Also, this seems long, indeed... But I don't want items spamed all around, just like that. A sword will be a longer process to make, but again... Having a sword of good quality will mean a lot.

---

Speak

 

[Direfury]

Well,when I was talking about the paladins models,when they run back to a town hall or something with gold,have one of the peasants gold sacks attached to his hand,when he carries lumber to a lumbermill,have a smaller version of the Lumbermill lumber strapped diagonally to his back.Also,you could turn a starting village into a Smithing Village by having all the players choose being miners,smelters & smiths. NPC's would charge maybe...5-10K gold in total to do all the work aside from mining.

Also,maybe we could create a strip mine area which sells ores every now and again,just keep it a long ass way away from a smithing area.Also I think there should be Glyphs:
My glyph system:
Unit destroys a stone destructible
44% chance that they may obtain Stone
If Stone is obtained,note will be sent to the owning player
Note will contain notes on how to begin crafting a Glyph
Unit will come to a Crafting Altar, go upto the Focused Obelisk (Elements,Powers(Fire Earth Water Air;Chaos Divine Darkness Light)
Stone will begin turning into a focused Glyph with its Obelisks powers, special doodads around the Altar, signifying the intense power being melded to the stone
Glyph will be complete.

My Glyphs:
Air Glyph:
Has a spellbook allowing Uprising,a Cyclone ability with a 5 second cooldown,0.50 second airtime;Twister,a Cyclone ability with a 10 second cooldown,2.50 second airtime;Hurricane Blades,a Cluster Rocket ability using the Hurricane effect (swirling wind) as a missile,5 second cooldown. Can only be used twice, does not disappear once used.
Water Glyph:
Allows the holder to walk on water (amphibious movement) while holding the glyph,and also gives the holder the Crushing Wave ability,can be cast three times, does not disappear once used.
Fire Glyph:
Has a spellbook allowing Pillar of Flame(Flame Strike) and Negabolt (Cluster Rockets with Firebolt 3 missiles). Can only be used twice, does not disappear once used.
Earth Glyph:
Has a spellbook allowing Tranquility or Earthquake. Can only be used three times, does not disappear once used.

Chaos Glyph:
Has spellbook allowing Chaos Step (Blink) which has a 75 minimum range & 125 maximum range,0.25 second cooldown) Chaos Lash (Autocast Orb of Annihilation with a 2 second cooldown) and Avatar of Chaos (Frenzy with doubled attack speed, +50% move speed(Triggered to make the unit grow twice as large,with matching collision area)

Divine Glyph:
Allows Blessing (Roar that only affects the caster, has the Resurrection caster graphic during casting, has the Inner Fire target graphic once cast. The Divine Glyph also gives 100-200 extra hitpoints to the holder.

Dark Glyph:
Allows Nightmare (Firebolt with no missile art,stun graphic changed to sleep graphic, triggered to harm the affected unit for about 100 damage half way through its nightmare)

Light Glyph:
Allows Ultravision and Holy Light, also gives 150 mana to the holder.

 

[04gusigo]

Holy SH** that was a lot to read! I like all of your ideas guys, it really will be a revolution in Warcraft 3 maps
What I think about the heroes is that we should not give them any starting abilities, and so that they can craft such for themselves (or their team mates would) like what Revellion said about glyphs, and also I think certain armor and weapons should give abilities to the wearer(only good and time consuming ones).
I will post some more reply, at the moment I dont have much time...

 

[Volvox]

A lot of text indeed, but it was worth reading. I was thinking about implementing terrain into game strategy(like in lotr bfme) when elves stand in the forest, they become invisible or to make units move slowly when entering marsh or deeper water and maybe add to archer's damage if they stand on higher ground then their victim and vice versa. With a bit of regions, it would be easy.

 

[04gusigo]

Nice idea Volvox, I think that would make the game even more interesting, but the file size might get around 5 mb!@

 

[Volvox]

That may indeed be a problem but if we are to make a big project, can we allow that to stop us? After all we can upload it on another site and just give the link here or if it can be zipped(i doubt). Besides, it's custom models that add to map size a lot and the raw map size can be a problem. It would be like 128x128? 256x256?

 

[04gusigo]

I think 128x128 would be better, because it will lesses the map size and also the heroes wount need to walk for 10 min to get to another side of them map as that would make it damn boring to play. But if we need more space we can always add a little to the map size

 

[Syleona]

If you take ultimate terraining map, it's around 1-2 Mb. Make it bigger size (128x128) and fill it in, will get it around 3-4 Mb. And if you look over that map, it has almost anything we might wish. We can delete stuff that we don't need, but most of those things are cool. And we can add our custom hero models (for the races).

 

[04gusigo]

Yes nice idea syleona! I already have ultimate terraining map.

 

[04gusigo]

Volvox please start making the terrain in Ultimate Terraining map for Aol+RPG mix map... Base it on DotA like map, then we will suggest what to add and what to delete

 

[Direfury]

Gusigo,its amazing nobody has warned you about double posts yet.

Anyways,I have an idea for a small blacksmithing village and where it could be placed in the map, it could be used as a starting area for miners & smiths. Anyone want me to put up a picture of this?

 

[04gusigo]

XD (I new about double post, but I just couldnt be bothered to go into another page at that time...)
What do you mean by posting a pic of such?? If you mean you will make it in WE and then take a screen and post it on here than please do so

 

[Direfury]

I used the UTM and WEU, mainly cause its got no "Raise terrain" limit. Now then,I have the basics of the village down and a small version of the first Altar done, is the Altar of Fire.

First is an overview of the Altar,second is a shot from the lower forestry.
After that is a shot of the monestary, another shot near the towns fountain and another one of the large forge/Steel Guild(Smiths & Miners) Also,remember these are just basics,I only worked on the buildings & overall layout with very little attention to the grasses or paths,as that would delay these pictures further.

 

[Syleona]

NO WEU!

That is a virus to maps! Stop using it!
You can add a simple txt file to the UI part of the editor folder, and get that unlimited thing. But please, no WEU

 

[Direfury]

Take a look at the pictures,I focused mainly on how some of the buildings should probably look, and the same with the altars, except in a larger scale.

 

[Volvox]

The basic idea seems to be fine, i like the forest in the background but i'm sorry to say that your terrain smoothing sucks. Smooth terrain may cause problems like buildings hanging in the air but that can easily be solevd by reducing their height. Anyway, that's why i'm here. One more thing. We must decide what style we're gonna use. For example, this nerubian ziggurat inside a peaceful and lush forest is a real kick in the guts unless you camouflage it a bit. Just my opinion...

 

[Direfury]

Hm, well how about one of you reskin the ziggurat to fit the terrain. Also,I must've forgot to level out some parts of the cathedral.And as I said,it was a basic group of pictures.If I had more time i'd put effort and higher detail into the bits and pieces you noted.

Also,I just have to say this:
For the Fire Altar,I want to use the Ziggurats thanks to their size and shape, but as you said, it looks ugly and its skin don't fit

Edit:
Maybe...It'd probably look good with some vines and shit just added to the skin so it looks old.No recoloring or anything after that I guess.

Aside from that,I just redid the odd bits of the cathedral and did some retouching around the 'guild'.I just added some vegetation to see what it'd look like at the Altar,this is it so far.

 

[04gusigo]

Maybe there should be just one Altar with 8 forges or anvils or something like that around(whereever you craft glyphs)

 

[Volvox]

I've taken some time to make my vision of that temple and it's a bit different but now that you mentioned vines, i think i have a perfect idea on how to fit your ziggurat in. I'll post the image anyway, just say what you think.

 

[Direfury]

Yeah...Maybe if we make ONE large altar and add secret quests that reveal the "spell" to shift the Glyph's focus we won't clutter up the place.I think the altar should create glyphs that give a spell shield and +50 mana if the spells aren't used.

Maybe once you enter the Altar area (the upper area beyong the stairs) you have to type in the spell, and the two altars on the sides will focus your stone and turn it into the glyph you request (use lightning effect going from the altar tops to the caster).Maybe the codes could be something along these lines:
"By fire I purge" creates a fire glyph
"The rage consumes" creates a chaos glyph
"The tides hunger" creates a water glyph etc.

Obviously,since everyone can see the examples,I say we change the glyph spells once we work on the map.

Edit:
That altar looks amazing, but we're still deciding on a single altar or many. We can incorperate all the elements as decorations,I think.Check out the remade pictures on page 5.

 

[Syleona]

Guys... You are forgetting about important things from the RPG part. Dungeons, quests... We need these to be around a map. At least a few of them...

 

[Volvox]

Well maybe we could implement some powerful spells that get unlocked by carrying special items dropped from dungeon bosses, for example, an elf get his hands on a dragon's heart, he imbues it's power into his bow and gets powerful searing arrows etc I think that would add the rpg part in cause if the prize is good, everybody will take on the boss.

 

[Volvox]

So 04gusigo you think now you could make a document in word in witch to gather everything so we all see what we're up to? That way we could all get the picture of the map in our heads. Once we all know how the map should look like, we could edit parts we don't like and improve the map a lot faster. Once that is done, all we need to do is get to work.

 

[Direfury]

I have five bosses already:
Gorthegros the Incarnate:
Powerful and HUGE warrior,has many earthen and ethereal spells.
Lord Acheron:
An extremely powerful demonlord who has mastered dark and general night magicks.
Almerion:
Older brother of Acheron, a master at controlling and using his own rage and hatred to his advantage.
Althos:
Younger brother of Acheron, a quick and enduring fighter who will give his life to make sure his brother survives.
Druugos the Archwielder:
Master of the element of Water, extremely powerful with lightning, this mage has the power to stop nations.

 

[04gusigo]

I will create a document tomorrow, I got no time today... I need to do my painting...
And I already have a document with member's jobs,names and email adresses.
Double post xD

 

[Volvox]

double post? i didn't really bother myself with reading the forum rules

 

[Direfury]

I'm going to make a new version of the Temple or TempleS incase we use different temples throughout the map.

 

[hellclown]

I like the concept just tell me what you need and when and I will get it to you as quick as I can.
BTW: what is the max poly count for WC III?

 

[Blackveiled]

I like the concept just tell me what you need and when and I will get it to you as quick as I can.
BTW: what is the max poly count for WC III?

Don't believe there is a max poly count, besides if there is I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to reach it ;P

 

[hellclown]

That's what worries me is not knowing and then leaning through rial and error.
It just makes me mad to do some thing over and over and over and over and....

 

[Direfury]

Altar and City Pictures

I only got a few pictures of ONE large temple and another town. Lets hear what needs to be improved, and i'll get to it once we have a definite map to work with.

 

[04gusigo]

I think volvox makes much better terrains, its his job anyway..
Also I dont really get your pics revellion, I cant see where is the entrance. Remember the map should also be as Aol and somewhere inside the forest one altar with little forges or something around, you know not to make it few killomitres wide.

 

[hellclown]

I like it but, it seems kinda dark is that intended?

 

[04gusigo]

I think for the part where it reveals the spell... We need to create a system which will generate a code or from a wide range of phrases, so that people that played the map already will not cheat by knowing all the spells

 

[Wolf_vx]

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to say hi to all of those who joined that team since I will be the one who will be providing you with the Website. It already been discussed with 04gusigo so I am the adminisator of the forum you will get soon. There is some more things to do and it will ready

 

[Volvox]

We'll have our own site? I like that. 04gusigo, revellion's terraining skills may suck but his pics are my inspiration since nobody is really talking about how the map should really look like. So now i'm wondering if it is all up to me or you guys have special requests?

 

[Direfury]

Hey I resemble that remark.And besides,I don't do terraining all that much. I could do pretty well with a city layout too, working on the small details, I just need the pathing done so I know my street lines, maybe you could use regions to pinpoint where decoratives should go (Fountains,Runes,Lights,etc)

Also, if I can find the right sound, I can do pretty well with a keyboard if we need a small ambient music clip for some parts, so if you think we'll need one just tell me.

 

[04gusigo]

Dudes, just call me Urahara (not my real name) it a little annoyes me the other one...
Also please Syleona or Revellion write as many different Item types like the Revellions Forestrial Weapons & Armor. Im trying to get a text file with all the different item types, requirments, processes and everything about items in it.

 

[Direfury]

I've decided to work up our icons,I already got the idea to give this map its own icon style. Give me a few minutes and I'll have SOME of the Forestrial items done.

 

[Volvox]

revellion thx for offering help but when i'm making a terrain i like to set up everything to the last doodad myself. Hope you won't get angry... Now let's head back to the special requests. I could use a list of areas, maybe a sketch or two. My freedom in shaping the terrain depends on how much material you provide, so if the terrain is to be strict, better start working! I just can't resist saying how much i like your item ideas, revellion. + rep

 

[hellclown]

I like swaps with some fog and zombies just cause its really cool to play in a swamp with ZOMBIES.*twitch* *twitch*

 

[Direfury]

In my city pics,the large castle walls and drawbridge were tinted in this order in the Doodad Editor:
255 Red
200 Green
125 Blue

This matched the colors of the Ruins Walls.

The Ashenvale tileset should be replaced by either the Dalaran or Cityscape thick grass models aswell.

If we use a single altar, I'd like there to be a downsized version of the Orcish walls protecting the rope bridge you've seen, then the altar which I think looks pretty good with greens and the Ziggurats. Also, we should work on removing the anvil from the black smith and using it as a seperate model.With life sized blacksmiths, the ginormous anvil seems to be a serious bother, as it is bigger than the smith.

Now then, if we use a cathedral, i've put some emphasis on overlapping each bit with the bits & pieces of the hidden 5 city buildings.

Also, i've just finished editting some stuff from WC, since the Forestrial items won't need much detail in your inventory. I also have some of my own icons, every icon has my border.I think we can find a use for each one, or maybe I could work on a whole new set (New hold position,attack,move,etc) And as a note,I do have more icons at the same quality of the Supernova icon at the beginning of the list, also, the editted icons look better ingame, as they are smaller there.