Cast backswing and cast point question

[sniper_zero]

I've always thought these two were additive but upon reading their definitions again I've begun to wonder.

Backswing is the the total it takes for a unit to do its animation?

And cast point is the point in the backswing where the spell actually takes effect?

So if I want channel to play the unit's spell animation correctly, I have to set follow through time to the same value as cast backswing?

 

[Nichilus]

Cast Point is the time it takes when you begin casting an ability and start the effect of an ability.

I dunno what Cast Backswing is for (I repeatedly changed it's value for human priest unit, but it had no effect whatsoever on his heal ability).

 

[Doomlord]

Backswing is the time it takes for the unit to finish the cast animtion and ready to switch to a new one. I picked that up on playdota.com but I never did any actual testing

 

[sniper_zero]

So backswing is like the cooldown?

@Nichilus so if I had .300 as the cast point, the ability effect will take place after .300 seconds?

What about my last question in the first post?

 

[Doomlord]

Not really. Just for aesthetic purposes I believe. People often force-cancel it to save time.

About your last question, it is actually cast point+backswing.

 

[sniper_zero]

Is it really cast point+backswing? Whenever I set the follow through time to their total, the unit always does his spell animation more than once with the animation after the first usually being cut short.

 

[Doomlord]

Right, my bad. You can try going with cast animation duration or with a default preset value of 1s.

 

[sniper_zero]

Actually, sometimes 1 second is too long for certain units.

I've been getting by with this up to now with trial and error but I've grown tired of that so I was wondering if you guys were using some formula to get the proper follow through time given certain backswing and cast point values.

 

[Doomlord]

Well the thing is each unit has a different cast animation span, thus it is quite impossible to have a global value for everything I noticed that the cast point and cast backswing is not relevant because it is the cast animation that matters. Some units with long cast animation can release the spell prematurely if the cast point is too low and vice-versa.

 

[Ezekiel12]

Well the thing is each unit has a different cast animation span, thus it is quite impossible to have a global value for everything I noticed that the cast point and cast backswing is not relevant because it is the cast animation that matters. Some units with long cast animation can release the spell prematurely if the cast point is too low and vice-versa.

Doomlord you seem to have no idea what youre talking about...

The cast animation of the unit doesnt matter at all, its purely visual. Generally the time it takes to cast a spell is the units cast point.
Some spells though use the value casting time, which is then added to the cast point time.
Other spells dont use the cast point and might just use the casting time.

Cast backswing happens after the spell went off to give the unit the chance to finish its animation, it can just be canceled by a new command in most cases.

 

[Doomlord]

Doomlord you seem to have no idea what youre talking about...

The cast animation of the unit doesnt matter at all, its purely visual. Generally the time it takes to cast a spell is the units cast point.
Some spells though use the value casting time, which is then added to the cast point time.
Other spells dont use the cast point and might just use the casting time.

Cast backswing happens after the spell went off to give the unit the chance to finish its animation, it can just be canceled by a new command in most cases.

Very well. Thanks for clearing that out for the OP and me.

Just a thing, I don't think there is a need to be quite offensive like that. It is not like people will applause you for pulling some kind of humiliation on another person.

But yeah, nevermind that. The thread's question is cleared.

 

[Ezekiel12]

I'm sorry, I didnt want to insult you in any way.
From where I come from speculation and false information is not tolerated, I often forget that here its more kind of an open discussion when people are not sure about something.

 

[Doomlord]

I'm sorry, I didnt want to insult you in any way.
From where I come from speculation and false information is not tolerated, I often forget that here its more kind of an open discussion when people are not sure about something.

No problem really. I always make sure to check the information's validity beforehand but unfortunately I am on a phone so I can only go as far as googling the topic and posting it. It is also my fault for not putting on a sentence warning how my words are pure speculation rather than facts. Don't worry.

Well anyways, thanks for the information about the cast point and cast backswing

 

[sniper_zero]

That clears things up. Just to clarify, cast point and the spell's casting time are the only things I need to be concerned about regarding cast time right?

 

[Ezekiel12]

That clears things up. Just to clarify, cast point and the spell's casting time are the only things I need to be concerned about regarding cast time right?

In general yes. But as this is wc3 there are always exceptions. Some spells are special, for example blink (which additionally considers the "duration - normal" value when cast) or of course the channel ability. Also mind that if a unit is stunned while casting it will start casting again completely from the start. Often units also have to turn (or move) before starting a cast which requires additional time.

Thats all that comes to my mind right now..

 

[sniper_zero]

Thanks and can you elaborate more about channel? How is it an exception?

 

[Ezekiel12]

Well, it has the options follow through time (and disable other abilities, which disables everything on the unit right when you use the ability). The cast start and ability effect events will fire normal, but after that the channeling is happening which can be considered as another pre spell phase. Therefore I considered it as not normal..

 

[sniper_zero]

Oh, okay. I got it now. Thanks!

 

[Vinz]

Anyways about that turning before attacks or spells, the Lich has a minimal amount of that. I think it is PropulsionWindow or is it something else?

 

[Ezekiel12]

Anyways about that turning before attacks or spells, the Lich has a minimal amount of that. I think it is PropulsionWindow or is it something else?

Propulsion window is unrelated to casting spells.
It states at which facing angle difference to the target (move, attack, patrol, smart) commands location a unit will begin to move if movement is required to fulfill the command or if it will just start turning without movement.
A propulsion window of 0 makes the unit unable to move at all and a propulsion window of 180 will force it to start moving as soon the command is given (if movement is required to fulfill the command).

To cast a spell/attack the facing angle of the caster/attacker needs to have less than ~11.7° difference to the direction of the target location. This is nearly a constant and can not be changed by editing the unit.

All of this does not apply to units with base ms 0 (so buildings in most cases) or rooted units (with disable turning set to true); they can cast spells/attack in whatever angle they want.