Can't See Destructibles!

[Goblintrain]

Ok, i know i will be embarrassed by the answer to this one, but for the life of me, i can never see my destructibles ingame, I can always see their shadow, and their obstruction, but i can't see them. They don't appear in the editor either.

I am trying to create a pillar of skulls when i place a ward. Years ago i did this by somehow stacking skull piles on top of each other, and i am trying to retrace my steps & solve it again. But at this point i can't even make a destructible appear on the map! That would be a great first step right now.

Any advice would be welcome, & TY in advance!

 

[Light]

Press Ctrl + D in the editor or click View -> Doodads.

 

[Goblintrain]

? TY, but that is not what i mean. I can find the palettes etc. The objects can be placed as cubes, but just don't appear on the map, except as tangible shadows. I'm too tired to deal with it tonight! Must sleep on it. I used to have a map saved on a cd that had all this stuff already on it. Such a shame to lose my history like that. My mind is just leaving me. ;(

 

[Chaosium]

Are you using custom models by any chance? Seeing cubes is usually caused by a texture problem.

If you're using regular destructibles, I really don't see how that can happen.

 

[nedio95]

Are you using custom models by any chance? Seeing cubes is usually caused by a texture problem.

If you're using regular destructibles, I really don't see how that can happen.

It could also happen between war3 version switches/updates...
If the map is for x.xx and you are opening with y.yy the paths to some models may differ.

regards
-Ned

 

[Goblintrain]

No custom models.

The map is just the old Ice Crown wcm. I was as Blizzard left it until after this most recent patch: previously un-customized. The game DL itself was after the most recent patch, so i'm guessing that's not the problem.

It seems to know what the skull pile doodads are -as long as they are just doodads.
As soon as i clothe a destructible or a unit as a skull pile doodad -THAT is when the problem seems to show.

Also, there is another part of working with doodads/destructibles i don't remember:
what is the relationship between the base & the variants? How do i use them together? How do they interact. In other words, when i am placing a doodad, do i place the base, or do i place a variant?

TY guys, your questions are helping me clarify the problem more. Like i said, i dealt with all this years ago, but i feel like i've experienced a memory wipe when it comes to all of it now!

 

[Light]

That's weird. It's probably an issue with the editor/game files, and potentially could be fixed by a reinstall.

Variants are basically different versions of a base. When you place a doodad, it places one of several versions of the base (i.e. I place 2 Rock doodads, they have different shapes, both of those are variants)

 

[Goblintrain]

Ok, TY for all the replies. I'm making progress. The doodads, destructibles, & units clothed as doodads are now all showing up properly. All i really did i think was just completely get out of the editor. I made a new map to test the behaviors, and everything seemed fine. There were some variants of the skull piles that the editor kept as blocks, but they showed up fine ingame, & in the editor too next time i opened the map. Similar to the way imported models & textures often behave. They also showed up when i logged back into my project map.

Now, here is the ultimate goal. Years ago, i somehow managed to stack those skull piles one on top of the other, like, 6 high, and make a pillar out of them. I don't remember how i did that! It was something i just discovered by accident one day. One of the neat things about the doodad pillars was that because of the built in randomization, each one of them looked a little different from the other. It was a nice prop that i used for a hero spell totem ability. But obviously there were a lot of things that could have been done with it. It was neat, and i would like to try it again using some custom textures.

 

[Kaijyuu]

Select your doodad, hold down ctrl, and press page up/down. This will move the doodad's y position.

 

[Goblintrain]

Select your doodad, hold down ctrl, and press page up/down. This will move the doodad's y position.

Hmmm... sorry, i wasn't more clear. How it worked was that when the old spell was cast, (based off of vision ward if i remember) the destructibles, clothed as doodads would spawn stacked one on top of another, as pillars. And those pillars were randomized in appearance, because they were composed of a group of randomly sized/shaped destructibles arranged vertically. Yet they always had relatively symmetry.

I believe the method you are suggesting only applies to pre-placed doodads/destructibles via the editor, am i correct?

 

[Kaijyuu]

Aye, it does. Apologies; I just skimmed and didn't realize it was for generated doodads.

 

[Goblintrain]

But you know what... you are still probably onto a solution, Kaijyuu. There is no reason why these "have" to be destructibles. I am not that great at triggering sfx, but i'm confident it could be done with the same randomness i am seeking from the destructibles. Just have to create the sfx triggers it works from.

And as far as that goes, there is no reason why i couldn't turn these into units -though that would get a bit complicated. I used to do a lot of that in the past. Often, since i didn't know how to work sfx, i would just model dummy units as the desired effect. It would take multiple custom units to do this like that, and even at that i would still need to trigger in random changes to unit size & doodad variations.

Since your original post, i have been trying to place destructibles using Z coordinates. This isn't working for me. The destructibles operate from X & Y coordinates just fine, but i haven't had any success with Z. My guess is i'm probably just not doing something right.

But the more i think about it... i bet goofing with a Z coordinate was how i originally got the idea of how to do this way back when.

 

[nedio95]

This sounds like you are describing some sort of use of an alfa platform... not entirely sure if this is applicable during game play though...

regards
-Ned

 

[Dr Super Good]

Rule out a graphic driver problem first by restarting (not shutdown) your computer to reload all drivers.

If still present then confirm the issue exists with a map just saved in WorldEdit and tested in game. It is will known that optimizers such as widgitizer can break destructable and doodad models.

Make sure your in game video settings are all maxed out. Warcraft III often inappropriately defaults to lowest fidelity settings. Some models may not be visible at lower model and texture settings. Video settings can only be changed from the main menu (not in game) and will require that Warcraft III to be restarted before they take effect.

 

[Goblintrain]

This sounds like you are describing some sort of use of an alfa platform... not entirely sure if this is applicable during game play though...

regards
-Ned

Ned, what on earth is an alpha platform?

Anyway, i changed tactics with the Z coordinates. I set up a trigger creating a footman at the location where i place a ward. This footman has flying movement for the sake of the test, and a movement height of 5. But whenever i test it, the footman always spawns somewhere else on the map. My guess is that i am not articulating my coordinates right, because i set both the ward, and the position of the ward as variables, that the trigger refers back to.

Unit - A unit enters (Playable map area)

(Unit-type of (Entering unit)) Equal to Skeleton Ward (Watcher)

Set Skeleton_Ward = (Entering unit)
Set Ward_Location = (Position of Skeleton_Ward)

Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 1 (Red) at (Point(((((X of Ward_Location) + (Y of Ward_Location)) + ((Position - Z of Skeleton_Ward) - (5.00 - 0.00))) + 1.00), 0.00)) facing Ward_Location

 

[nedio95]

Ned, what on earth is an alpha platform?

Anyway, i changed tactics with the Z coordinates. I set up a trigger creating a footman at the location where i place a ward. This footman has flying movement for the sake of the test, and a movement height of 5. But whenever i test it, the footman always spawns somewhere else on the map. My guess is that i am not articulating my coordinates right, because i set both the ward, and the position of the ward as variables, that the trigger refers back to.

Unit - A unit enters (Playable map area)

(Unit-type of (Entering unit)) Equal to Skeleton Ward (Watcher)

Set Skeleton_Ward = (Entering unit)
Set Ward_Location = (Position of Skeleton_Ward)

Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 1 (Red) at (Point(((((X of Ward_Location) + (Y of Ward_Location)) + ((Position - Z of Skeleton_Ward) - (5.00 - 0.00))) + 1.00), 0.00)) facing Ward_Location

Ah, I got that a bit wrong, it is Alpha Tile
>>>
Alpha Tile for Dummies
Advanced Terraining Tutorial
Using Reflections in Terraining!
» Create your defined artistic style using the mighty alpha-tile

It is basically an invisible... "terrain-thing". With it you can make flying-ish things and a whole lot of good looking things.
And, I don't think you can use it, I had misunderstood what you need.


Now to your script, it looks like you are using GUI.

• Unit - Create 1 Footman for Player 1 (Red) at (Point(((((X of Ward_Location) + (Y of Ward_Location)) + ((Position - Z of Skeleton_Ward) - (5.00 - 0.00))) + 1.00), 0.00)) facing Ward_Location

//This part, looks like Convert Coordinates by Point.
Point(((((X of Ward_Location) + (Y of Ward_Location)) + ((Position - Z of Skeleton_Ward) - (5.00 - 0.00))) + 1.00), 0.00)
//This means X & Y coordinate, you don't set Z with this. That function takes only X & Y. and you have messed those around.
//Your X is equal to: (((X of Ward_Location) + (Y of Ward_Location)) + ((Position - Z of Skeleton_Ward) - (5.00 - 0.00))) + 1.00)
//Your Y is equal to: 0.00

There is no point converting Coordinated to point if you already have a point. Just use the Ward_Location instead of this whole mess. You can't set the Z in pure GUI anyway, you'll have to use a custom script.

regards
-Ned

 

[Goblintrain]

Ok, Ned, TY, that is making a little sense... i think.

If i build my effect out of a unit, i should just be able to create the unit at ward location, & set it's movement height with the object editor... i think. Interacting neatly with the terrain probably had a lot to do with why i made them from units in the past.

But let's say i want to make my effect using the actual sfx from the gui. That seems to be when the Z coordinate becomes important, because just making an effect at unit position always wants to bury the sfx into the ground. The sfx doesn't conveniently follow the standing level of the terrain. I can't seem to get the sfx trigger to use the ground the unit is standing on as its reference point. Then what happens is, depending on the particular terrain the unit is standing over, the sfx will either be buried under the ground, or raised up high above the ground, if compensated for. I can't seem to get the sfx to happily settle a certain "relative" elevation above the spot the unit is standing. This is important to do because i would like to have the sfx occur in stacks, at say, elevations 20, 40, 60, 80 etc above the point of terrain the unit stands on.

 

[Chaosium]

We talked about custom models earlier, how about using one? Pretty sure we have good people here on the Hive who could do a skull pile

 

[Goblintrain]

Chaosium, a custom model would be an awesome addition, and would reduce my suffering greatly! But it would also break my family motto: "Do everything the hard way!" Actually i really would love a custom model, but i will have to think about how to phrase that request. I am never going to publish some epic project... probably nothing at all. But on the other hand... i think a lot of peeps would find use for a pillar of skulls, or even a pile of skulls that had a dying animation. If some one just had nothing better to do and wanted to make it, that would be my request: that they just wanted to make it for their own amusement.

ALL: Anyway, i figured out pretty well methinks how i made the pillar of skulls. I did it by stripping down a unit of all it's actions, and modeled it as a pile of skulls. I then changed it's movement to fly, and adjusted its fly height & model size according to its position in the pillar. Then when the unit creation trigger was acted, the members of the pillar would spawn, assembled in the likeness of a pillar.

Looking at the GUI now, i can't help but wonder, that if i made a more sophisticated spawning trigger, i could just have one basic spawning unit, & adjust its size and placement height using the trigger options. I have seen options containing that language in the trigger action menu, but have not really explored those yet. It would be nice!

The other question of course, is, can i accomplish this whole thing just with an SFX? So far that hasn't worked as smoothly. It "almost" works, but SFX placement ignores some of the collision physics, and are just not as easy for me to work with as a dummy unit. Granted, this probably says more about my ignorance of SFX than the viability of making SFX that would do the job.

The "single" biggest problem with using skull pile doodads is just the limits of -doodads. It has no animations -particularly death animations, and the texture detail is quite low. However, the first point is definitely more an issue than the second. Lack of animations make spawning & removing the model in a pleasing way a lot more complicated. Not impossible -just needlessly painful!