Blizzard Accidentally Releases Debug Symbols, Maps, and Exclusive Content in Warcraft 3 Update Version 2.0.1

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Honestly, I would have loved if they'd gone with the art style of the Alterac Pass map from HotS. My friend and I always postulated if that map was a trial version of a Warcraft rework at the time.

Just look at these guys:
I like the HOTS style but it's not Warcraft. It's a bit like Hearthstone where they take the style and stylize it to the max, making it look a bit like Fortnite. I think the secret ingredient to WC3/ClassicWOW graphics is stylization with a BIT of realism in there. By that I mean a bit of grunge, wear and tear to prevent the game from looking like a movie set. Realistic elements are important even in a stylized game because realism makes what you see relatable. Perhaps this is why I like the Reforged graphics but I think they took it too far in that case.

A really good example is the classic town hall. Both in WC3 and in classic wow you can see a bit of grunge here and there. The buildings are maintained but not pristine. If you told me these buildings have been there for a long time, I would believe you.

1734632375364.png

View attachment 502508
Some of the newer Human buildings in WOW do hit the mark but they are most often too pristine and needlessly ornate. I find this one to be just right and I would like to see WC3 remade in this style.
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I welcome all the model variants in the world - but an important question regarding custom maps:

Is it possible to set a map to force a certain asset set for all players that play it? It feels like it would be unfortunate as a map designer to have to account for all the different ways your map could possibly look depending on what settings the player has input.
 
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I already like this patch because they added support for reforge textures before the 2.0 update, and it even works in the editor.
I continue mapping, yay
 
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The footman's shoulder pads need a nerf lol (they're too high), they literarily block his vision if he wants to look left or right. :]
Am not a fan of the new footman sword neither, it doesn't look metallic and sharp, it looks like a big piece of rock that is more for blunt hitting (like a club) then cutting or stabbing.
And the grunt could use a neck maybe...
 
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Level 16
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Someone please save that folder with old internal art.
It might be midly more faithful, but it seems like those equally as misguided "cartoony" concepts Sousa shown on Blizzcon. I didnt like the grunt model when i saw it on artstation either. Its not that much closer to what it should look like. And it being still on same rendering engine as RF just makes it look just as hedious as RF HD art is. Animations seem somewhat closer at very least. War3HD was still far better in terms of execution even, if i do have minor gripes with it aswell. Warcraft 3 should have never been moved to PBR nor drowned in excess of modern rendering tech just for sake of it. Style of the game was predominatly based of 90s comic books, ink/gouache fantasy drawings/covers and prior Warcraft games, the art ingame should stick to that no matter in what "current year" it would be remastered. Sousa never understood the assignment and was majority of hte problem regardingh the project for this reason.

If anything mild inspiration on execution of it could be drawn from how prerendered ingame style cinematics are in WoW vs the ingame models best examples would be Jaina and other story characters that appear as relatively basic fidelity models vs their animatic equivalents, especially if we go back to MoP or Wotlk where ingame model of Arthas is very far off the ending scene one. WoW also stuck to mostly matte looking art.
It should be mostly defuse textrures including stronger highlights and linework just like originals. If any minor upgrades would be used it should only attempt to implement some faint and sparring use of specular highlights and mostly improving the capability of the game and engine to run without any slow downs instead of wasting resources and time on abominable mess that Sousa did make LemonSky do, that only splintered the community.

Its nice to atleast see there were attempts to do it differently that it finally ended up being. The only part that trully looks as it should are those few icons of rifleman, myrmidon, headhunter and huntress. That was only properly executed attempt save for RF grungy and disgusting looking frames around them, but that would an easy fix. Having each and every icon drawn like this instead of mishmash of screenshots and few drawn icons would be great, and we got more of them but execution of the rest isnt as good as those hidden 5.

Honestly, I would have loved if they'd gone with the art style of the Alterac Pass map from HotS. My friend and I always postulated if that map was a trial version of a Warcraft rework at the time.

Just look at these guys:
Well HotS was done under Samwise Didier's direction and it shows, but its effectively having its own style. I like it overall but its also overtly burdened by WoW's quite bad influence(hunched over orcs with their stupid samey mugs, the same problem infected War3HD Far Seer and Blademaster, from unique looking characters they looked like partial copypastes of each other). Wc3 Wolfriders are sitting straight up, only leaning in/hunching slightly when they move.
 
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I have no idea the Hive policy on this but until they take it down, I put preview.exe in the Tools section just now.

Am I crazy or do the Reforged portrait models render in their entirety whereas the original models only rendered the upper part of the model? Wouldn't this impact performance ?
 
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I like the HOTS style but it's not Warcraft. It's a bit like Hearthstone where they take the style and stylize it to the max, making it look a bit like Fortnite. I think the secret ingredient to WC3/ClassicWOW graphics is stylization with a BIT of realism in there. By that I mean a bit of grunge, wear and tear to prevent the game from looking like a movie set. Realistic elements are important even in a stylized game because realism makes what you see relatable. Perhaps this is why I like the Reforged graphics but I think they took it too far in that case.

A really good example is the classic town hall. Both in WC3 and in classic wow you can see a bit of grunge here and there. The buildings are maintained but not pristine. If you told me these buildings have been there for a long time, I would believe you.

View attachment 502506
View attachment 502508
Some of the newer Human buildings in WOW do hit the mark but they are most often too pristine and needlessly ornate. I find this one to be just right and I would like to see WC3 remade in this style. View attachment 502509
I find the HOTS style better because IT IS STILL SAMWIZE, while WoW since TBC and onwards has been Wei Jiang and other artists with a mishmash of art no one knows if it is warcraft anymore, and later we got MoP which blizzard went full Dreamworks and Pixar, which they ripoff til this day because the morons who still plays that crap loves the pixar style.

If i am to give a good example of how to remaster the old to new while keeping the aesthetic of the original, i'll mention what Bethesda did to morrowind Assets in Curse of the Tribunal, where is still the original armor from the original concept art adapted to skyrim's artstyle from the late Adam Adamcowicz
SR-interior-Ashfall's_Tear.jpgh-mason-holly-skyrimhighordinator.jpgh-mason-holly-skyrimindorilarmor.jpg
 
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Honestly, I would have loved if they'd gone with the art style of the Alterac Pass map from HotS. My friend and I always postulated if that map was a trial version of a Warcraft rework at the time.

Just look at these guys:
this graphical art style is infinitely superior to the insanely overly detailed models we got in reforged; HoTs graphical designs should have been how wc3re was styled after.
 
Level 12
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Honestly, I would have loved if they'd gone with the art style of the Alterac Pass map from HotS. My friend and I always postulated if that map was a trial version of a Warcraft rework at the time.

Just look at these guys:
If someone here at hive could give them proper portrait animations as most of the HOTS ports are missing since most are made for SD without .dds support, it would be perfect as reforged replacements.
 
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So there was a point of time when WC3 with more polygons was trully WC3 with more polygons and not generic mobile game appeal, like Reforged ended being.

MBA's where a mistake. rejecting a goofy and lively style to a more "realistic generic" to pander to a sector of people who don't even play RTS is the most business school graduated idea ever.

And Christmas came early for Stephan K, new footman design :xxd:
I actually thought those 'WC3 with more polygons' screenshots looked very mobile game. At least the Reforged too busy 'realistic' look was an attempt to expand on and do some original stuff, it felt like it had some personality- as much as I think that it's like those 'realistic Simpsons characters' renders. This is why I think that WC3 didn't need a graphical remaster at all. Revised and better content, sure, but I think the style is truly timeless and attempting to update it at a base level looks either generic and cheap or uncanny valley. This site proves that great things can be done within the graphical engine. johnwar's Re-Classic model series is further proof.
 
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kind of, but not really
anyone running off bnet will be running off the obfuscated version and that will have wrong offsets for everything, besides as soon as they release a new patch it will be even more outdated
you can debug crashes by running your map with the unobfuscated client tho
and how do I do that? which one is the unobfuscated client? Do I get the stack traces on crashes then?
 
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Honestly, I would have loved if they'd gone with the art style of the Alterac Pass map from HotS. My friend and I always postulated if that map was a trial version of a Warcraft rework at the time.

Just look at these guys:
Hard agree. I was never (& still am not) interested in any kind of updated models, but if we had to get them, this would've been the way to go.
 
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I find the HOTS style better because IT IS STILL SAMWIZE, while WoW since TBC and onwards has been Wei Jiang and other artists with a mishmash of art no one knows if it is warcraft anymore, and later we got MoP which blizzard went full Dreamworks and Pixar, which they ripoff til this day because the morons who still plays that crap loves the pixar style.

If i am to give a good example of how to remaster the old to new while keeping the aesthetic of the original, i'll mention what Bethesda did to morrowind Assets in Curse of the Tribunal, where is still the original armor from the original concept art adapted to skyrim's artstyle from the late Adam Adamcowicz
View attachment 502531View attachment 502532View attachment 502533
Ingame style of WoW is still for most part decent artleast for ingame style cutscenes like Crossroads and alike. The sort we saw sometimesfrom Wotlk (Fall of the Lichking scene for one or Garrosh being an impulsive manchild and attacking Varian earlier), those were very much still done under Samwise or sprouting directly form his preestablished direction. BFA Jaina is also closest we got to proper looking Jaina as far as her face goes, HoTS Jaina is quite different to Wc3 one including the colourscheme. I enjoy the look of HoTS but its it's own thing ultimately as i said earlier.

I would never try to shift Wc3 off its original style too excessively. I do like newer terrain textures, they are atleast faithful to original coourschemes nad designs for most parts, RF HD ones arent, and were stupidly changed for no good reason. We have best reference in wallpapers and treasure trove of Samwise's own artwork for Wc3, Frozen Throne, and his private and unused art that was on Sons of the Storm page, aswell as most of the work he did for early WoW. Wc3's texturing should still try to emulate Samwise's own colouring and shading just as it did with original assets. While only changes should be mild fixes and tweaks to make it properly uniform as some assets are far older than others(Footman for instance) and have tons of minor mishaps or issues or bad execution(RoC Demon Hunter/Illidan tattooes being very crude and pixelated vs his TFT model, where its more tidy and drawn on properly.

Meshwork should be pretty much what War3HD models are with the faces and details being identical just in higher fidelity to originals, as they did drift off wildly in some cases (Orcish heroes having generic WoW orc mugs even more exaggerated than in WoW; Paladin/Uther looks like a sad shepard dog instead of stoicly powerful and respect inducing mentor and warrior that will smash orcs into smooth paste) in some cases less so (Keeper looking a bit different and having different beard etc). Deathknight looks pretty spot on for HD Arthas both a living and undead version. Texturing is also ever so slightly off and a bit too preoccupied with more modern way to space things out, making perhaps at tiny bit more challenging to do good reskins as we saw for classic models.

However animations and for most part proportions and overall look are PERFECT and i think this should be the basis off which a truly well executed remaster of Wc3 should've been made/should be made.

WoW atleast stuck to drawn like aesthetic, and didnt turn itself into glossy "hyper-realistic" nightmare that most modern games seem to be preoccupied at becoming. It's still pleasant to look at, definetly much more than RF which is vomit inducing, regardless of "Quenching" it or not, its just bad and needless implementation of technology that noone really needed in an isometric RTS/RPG game with occassional upsclose scenes. If WoW is well off with way it is designed in current year, why the hell change Wc3 into something it was never ever meant to be? It still bothers me because it did poison the well and all the bigger projects that happened since Reforged launched adopt it's hedious style and it will just stay that way.

If it was done correctly in the first place we would not have this discussion and everything in the community would be unified under same aesthetic, and older assets could coexist with refreshed ones within reason. The leak only shows they would still be off the base but in different direction and perhaps to lesser degree instead of following up on something that was Nigh-perfect.(and for the record i do love some SC2 War3HD models with almost no gripes held: most Demons except Infernals Dark Ranger, Warden, Sentry/Ghost of Vengeance, Human tower, and especially Priestess of the Moon and Crypt Lord and his beetles are all very well made.)
 
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I forgot to say then, they were able to somehow break the unwrapping of tree textures if you turn on the old reforge landscape textures. Lol
And I already checked the files at night and redownloaded the game and it didn't help, well and now today I launch battlenet and see that it's downloading an update of 60+ MB and... Now the texture mapping of the trees is correct! o_o
They started fixing the game quickly lol.
Only the tree from the icecrown glacier is still broken
 

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Tbh, I have no idea why some people call these hideous warcraft rumble style models "Classic HD". They look like they were created for some casual mobile game without much art direction. Warcraft III had a very distinct style that has never to do with these - basically what @Kacpa2 said.
I'm currently trying to get a grip of how a proper remaster could look like, combining both AI and sculpting/painting pipelines. It's not ideal but I really don't understand why would they not save money on creating new concepts instead of using the classic ones AND not risk their reputation at the same time by wandering too far. A small group of mid to senior artists could produce this in no time at all and everyone would get their Classic HD instead of Reforged or this leaked toony nonsence...
 

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Level 19
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HoTS / SC2HD models look fantastic and we'll continue work on porting everything over that has not been ported yet. Anyone should feel free to help with the process. I have posted an updated guide on how to port HoTS stuff over. Same methodology should work for SC2HD models though I think 100% of those have been ported over at this point.
:goblin_yeah:

 
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Level 16
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Tbh, I have no idea why some people call these hideous warcraft rumble style models "Classic HD". They look like they were created for some casual mobile game without much art direction. Warcraft III had a very distinct style that has never to do with these - basically what @Kacpa2 said.
I'm currently trying to get a grip of how a proper remaster could look like, combining both AI and sculpting/painting pipelines. It's not ideal but I really don't understand why would they not save money on creating new concepts instead of using the classic ones AND not risk their reputation at the same time by wandering too far. A small group of mid to senior artists could produce this in no time at all and everyone would get their Classic HD instead of Reforged or this leaked toony nonsence...
Upscaling/redrawing original textures and doing tweaks and detail addition in mesh is how i would go about it. It's contantly on the backburner but did toyaround with model and texture edits to improve original assets for a longer while, but it needs a bit more than that to get where it needs to. I am trying to find time for things, but since i am starting my own business now its eating into most of my freetime at the moment, but i hopefully will be more free soon.

Best analogue to how Warcraft 3 Remaster should look like is how Zelda games like Ocarina of time and Majora's mask got updated from their N64 versions(funnily somewhat similar in fidelity to some Wc3 models for most part) to Nintendo 3DS remasters. It's exactly the approach visually that it should be and War3HD was almost there for most part. Despite limitations of 3DS OOT and Majora Mask look beautiful and true to the style, thought atmosphere was affected by bad lighting decisions in few places, but its a minor thing. With fan made PC port of these games you can have both original atmosphere and 3ds assets and i think it's the best representation of how Wc3 assets should be updated.

Ofcourse with reasonably higher textures, but within reason(to be mindgful of size and performance, if everything would be randomly jusdt 4k for no reason it would cause issues with little to no benefit), it doesnt need nor would benefit from 4k textures save for maybe buildings(although spliting them up in to several 1k textures would be better), terrain and other giant texture sheets that are few of the assets that might need it in some cases, for the rest it would be enough to bump it to 512 by 512 or 1024 by 1024 for most unit textures depending on needs and size of details or shared texture sets like ones for doodads.

EDIT: Gorgeous townhall by the way :infl_thumbs_up:
 
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Ofcourse with reasonably higher textures, but within reason(to be mindgful of size and performance, if everything would be randomly jusdt 4k for no reason it would cause issues with little to no benefit), it doesnt need nor would benefit from 4k textures save for maybe buildings(although spliting them up in to several 1k textures would be better), terrain and other giant texture sheets that are few of the assets that might need it in some cases, for the rest it would be enough to bump it to 512 by 512 or 1024 by 1024 for most unit textures depending on needs and size of details or shared texture sets like ones for doodads.
I use 4 textures sized 1024x512 and I actually think the fidelity might be a bit too much for an RTS and consider downscaling them :gg:
 
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Tbh, I have no idea why some people call these hideous warcraft rumble style models "Classic HD". They look like they were created for some casual mobile game without much art direction. Warcraft III had a very distinct style that has never to do with these - basically what @Kacpa2 said.
I'm currently trying to get a grip of how a proper remaster could look like, combining both AI and sculpting/painting pipelines. It's not ideal but I really don't understand why would they not save money on creating new concepts instead of using the classic ones AND not risk their reputation at the same time by wandering too far. A small group of mid to senior artists could produce this in no time at all and everyone would get their Classic HD instead of Reforged or this leaked toony nonsence...
Can you do that for every asset? Thank you.
 
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I use 4 textures sized 1024x512 and I actually think the fidelity might be a bit too much for an RTS and consider downscaling them :gg:
Well that about enough i think, they might be seen from upclose or used as textures for other fanmade models like Ujimasa and many others use so having it a tiny bit higher than necessary is good. Ideally to also keep it easy to adapt/upscale retextures to fit. If 512 by 512 - 1024 res textures were fine for most FPS Valve games i think its more than enough for Wc3 for most part, just as far as it doesnt get blurry in cutscenes and upclose.
I think we should work together to get it done, Stormknight is definetly onboard for this too, thought it's hard for me to reach him lately.
 
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Can you do that for every asset? Thank you.
I think we should work together to get it done
I'm looking for an efficient way to do this as I work fulltime. It's not hard for me to create one, or several, decent looking buildings in my free time. Upscaling production is a bigger issue. One has to be careful delegating stuff, as it easily leads to inconsistensy within style and quality. Once I finish this Town Hall, I'll try to make a styleguide and see if I can outsource part of the work so you don't have to wait for me to finish all. If you think you can be helpful, PM me or find me on Discord. I think engaging with like-minded people is very helpful for such projects
 
Did anybody manage to work out a way to get a source code for Warcraft 3 from the debug symbols yet? Everyone was telling me this is "hard" but also that debug symbols are supposed to make this "easier." Then someone else told me I should be talking to lawyers before I consider this. I'm just really tired of Reforged being unstable. In 2028 if I feel like popping open World Editor and working on a map, that should be a thing I can do without expecting the map to bust and quit working a year later...
 
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It's good that Blizzard doesn't abandon the game and keeps updating it to fix and improve it. The new maps and models they are testing and releasing are always welcome, although I will always like the old ones for the nostalgia.
 
It's good that Blizzard doesn't abandon the game and keeps updating it to fix and improve it. The new maps and models they are testing and releasing are always welcome, although I will always like the old ones for the nostalgia.
tbh they did abandon the game between 2021 and most of 2024
 
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+1, I would love a copy to try to make more progress on the problem I've been debugging for months.
Could anyone please share the exe/pdb. Would really appreciate it!


I have no idea the Hive policy on this but until they take it down, I put preview.exe in the Tools section just now.
Could you also please share the Preview.pdb file
 
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interesting what they did, at least i can now open maps and campaigns, though with a stutter that i have little idea where it comes from.

there seems to be something off with the unit textures' lighting, arthas has a dim face, well, at least on my end, and i cant mix and match textures between hd/reforged or the game becomes a powerpoint presentation or outright crashes
 
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