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Bane - A "Hybrid RTS"

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Transcendence - A "Hybrid RTS"

Renamed :D
T R A N S C E N D E N C E

IMPORTANT!
I have ditched this map, however there is an unprotected version freely available. Scroll down and read more about it.

This is a "Hybrid RTS", with most people playing "Empires" - the RTS players - and some players playing as "Legendary Units" - Heroes.

Units in this map will have very low amounts of health (around 1 or 2 for many), and combat will be very luck based, as "health" will be approached in a way similar to Warhammer, units will have "armour saves". These will involve Evasion abilities in hidden spellbooks, and the normal armour value (which will give no actual damage reduction) will be set to that of the armour save (ie. 50 armour = 50% armour save). This will also introduce an armour penetration mechanic, some units will have a chance to completely bypass armour when they attack.

Units will also have comparatively high regeneration, not to the extent that they are invincible, but will be able to be killed as long as the unit they are fighting isn't killed and if it does, another doesn't immediately take its place.

Gold will be gained through income (different for every race), but also through killing enemy units.

Buildings will be realistically scaled, and will be very resistant to the attacks of most foot troops. They will need siege weapons to destroy.

Alliances will be player-decided, which i hope will lead be intrigue and treachery >:D
This map will involve a lot of units onscreen simultaneously and I need a way to control large amounts of them at the same time. I guess i could have a Mass Send ability, but I would prefer something more precise.

I hope to make the world very alive, with an NPC settlement and proper creep lairs (no, not random gnolls around a campfire). I will also include boss battles. With the settlement, there will be one major Human city, and and possibly a smaller village. These will (hopefully) have a populace that goes to bed at night, retreating into houses. The major city will feature guards, each with his own patrol path (all set at the start of the game.) or set position. These will not sleep.

This game will have a Rumours system. This involves simply going to a Tavern (In the town) as paying a bit of gold. Doing this will display a message (A different one will be picked every day) that may help. Some examples of these are: certain locations (Locations of large creep camps, Underworld entrances etc.), the progress of others (namely Legendary Unit players), army suggestions. These will also include a bit of useless banter, and even misleading comments, so it should not be relied on. These taverns will also sell mercenaries - miners, lumberjacks, spies and specialized soldiers.

As well as the normal map, there will also be numerous subterranean caverns, with numerous entrances scattered around the place.

There will be a mechanic, where it is possible to essentially craft your own terrain by destroying Debris underground. I will look for a possible way to stop other players from just ruining this.

Death will be handled in a hopefully interesting way that does not disclude the player from the game. When an Empire player loses all their units and buildings, they will have a number of choices. They will be able to negotiate alliances, and even Share Control with other players, helping them. The alternative to this is to take control of a Neutral Hostile creep camp, and being able to control these and train new ones. This will not be as complex as the actual Empire play, and will not have nearly as much impact on the game, but will be a welcome alternative to just leaving.

At the start of the game, players will have to choice of either starting it immediately, which will display a short description about their Empire or Legendary Unit, and their role in the game. The other option is to watch a little cinematic which explains how the game works. During this, players will gain gold, so as to not give them a disadvantage.

I currently have ideas for 3 different empires.
Humanity - A realistic medieval human race, no magic! This race will have a large tech tree, but without many requirements, meaning you can specialize in whichever units you want. However, some of these upgrades will not be available until later in the game (ie. Gunpowder). This will consist of more "practical" upgrades that will not lead on to unrelated things, they will either be available or become available after a certain time period. Some examples are: the aforementioned Gunpowder, Horsemanship, masonry, metallurgy etc. Humans gain income from building farms and estates, and also from owning Villagers, which are very weak units with no sight (they are not directly ordered by the player, but only when units are around them) that wander around, meaning that putting them in the aforementioned houses would be a good idea.
Human military will be largely dependent on Captains. These are slightly stronger counterparts of almost every unit that bestow different positive effects on nearby allied units.
Undead - An undead race that gains bonuses and income in accordance to the number of units they have. Most of these will have expiration timers, meaning that Undead armies will gradually die off. However, these are very long (Ranging from a few minutes for weaker units, to an hour for creatures such as Bone Drakes). The Undead will also have human units - Necromancers, who are able to summon more troops. They are also able to find Phylacteries, items hidden in Creep-held dungeons, that transform them into almighty Liches. A lich with 3 phylacteries becomes a force that is capable of standing up to even Legendary Units! I may add a mechanic in which dead liches can be resurrected, providing the player still has its Phylactery. Necromancers, along with Liches, will have a very important ability that dramatically increases Undead regeneration, making units a lot harder to kill. The only downside of this is its very short range.
Demons - I haven't really planned this race out much, except for some vague unit and building ideas, but I know that their income will increase over time, making it a race friendly to new players. It will also have a lot of building upgrades.
This will most likely not be implemented.

Dragon - Uses olofmoleman's Lindormr Dragon model (which I love). This will start off as a hatchling, and gradually grow to become extremely powerful. To grow it will need to kill enemies and eat. This does not necessarily mean he has to attack other players, there will be plenty of creeps (as i mentioned before)
Shadow Spawn - Uses shamanyouranus's Shadow Spawn model. A relatively fragile Legendary, with low health. However, this only takes 1 damage from all attacks, meaning that it is protected from other legendary units and siege weapons. It can become invisible at will, meaning that it will be good to pick off units. Finally, it has a Shadow Form ability, that changes it into a very fast moving Shadow with no attack and a low sight range. This is permanently invisible.
Manipulator - (No decided model). A scheming individual that has a series of abilities that allow him to take control of enemies. The first one merely gives him shared vision with a targeted unit (heros and builders are immune). The next one kills all such units. The third one takes control of all of them (while retaining the colour). He will also be able to change his name and player colour, effectively masquerading as another player. In terms of defense, he has low health, but a lot of mana and a manashield ability. He also has a Doombolt spell, that does horrific damage to all units in a line which, with good positioning, can devastate small armies.
He will also (probably) have Rituals, a number of spells that create a circle into which certain items must be placed. It doing this, something will happen, depending on which Ritual was used. For example, a Ritual of Summoning will summon a powerful creature to help you. A Ritual of Death will give you a single-use ability that deals huge amounts of damage. There will also be Rituals that bestow long-term buffs (about 10 minutes or so?).

Legendary Unit death will reincarnate them as a "Silhouette", as far weaker version of them that cannot be killed (In just respawns soon after it's death). This will have to find an item, or kill a certain creep, which will give them control of their original unit again. However, this can only be done once, and a subsequent death will have them playing as a Silhouette for the rest of the game - they can leave if they want.

This will be the final "empire", but it cant really be called that, as it's gameplay is nothing like theirs.
These are inspired by the countless Zombie Infection maps and will center around the notion of "Kill to strengthen yourself". Yes, when you kill an enemy unit, you get one yourself. However, unlike the Zombie maps, these will get weaker over time. This will happen using a "Generation" system. When one of their units kills something, the resulting spawn will be of the generation after that of the killing unit (There will be about 8 or so). This player will start off as a single unit (he must be careful, as he is not that strong) near an isolated village, and will have to gradually get kills until it is strong enough to mutate into a Hive, their main, and only building. This hive will be upgradable and with every one of these, it will spawn more 1st generation units. When the highest level is reached, 7th and 8th generation units will be able to mutate into Subhives - which can spawn new, 3rd generation units. Flying units will also become available at some point, as well as a separate breed of siege creatures, starting with a revivable hero.


Open Source!
I have stopped work on this map, but have provided an unprotected version for people to play with.
If you decide to do this, feel free to ask me for help and advice.
It would be nice if you left some sort of mention of me in it, but meh, it's not that important...


Interested in this? Then check out a similar project by Dezedor: Tales Of Teldor.
 

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When i first read this i had a silent moment. This looks VERY much alike the project im currently working on with some friend. In general concept, not as much the detail, but still. I am very happy.

There is far to few maps based on this concept, and your idea sounds really interesting. I really hope that a good map will come out of it.
I like the way your legendary units work. Also its nice seing more RTS maps based on "Luckchance" rather than high hp.
(Does the HP of the hero represent the amount of bullets that will miss him, before he finally gets hit by a bad guy and die? -Casper Mikkelsen)
Anyway. I like the concept, and while your project sounds similar to my own, it also differs in a lot of aspects.
.... I apologize for repeating myself but, in conclusion, i am really looking forward to try your map.

p.s. The legendary units are REALLY nice!
 
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Hehehe.
Oh right. Thats because i stole your idea, invented a time machine, and travelled back in time to post MY concept before you did. Just to make mockery of your great idea!
Hehe.

Seriously though.
If you have any interest of "hearing of it", heres the link.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/f462/codename-wok-122410/
Still, as you will notice, there are several differences. Thats another reason im looking forward to your way of using the concept, in a map version.

But, of course, this thread is not about my map.
Returning to the subject.

I really like the way you 3 nations seems to play in different way.
The only problem i can see is balance. No doubt you will be able to make it fair and balanced, but maybe undead will be very challenging in that respect. My point is: If humans advance through techtree (how are you going to make that by the way? Age of Empire style? Civilisation? Or someting different), they will ultimate climb to max strenght.
Demons income increase over time? That would also make them gradually stronger.
While Undead is based on numbers? Combining that with the "luck chance" combat system, will mean a very unsteady growth of strenght for that race.
Have you thought about how that could be balanced?
Same goes for legendary units.
Dragon gets stronger as time passes by and by eating people. (that, by the way, is brilliant!)
Will that at some point make it ubalanced compared to shadow spawn or/and manipulator.
Also are you planing on adding a timer on the Manipulators charm ability, or a limit? Or can it eventually get an army of its own?
Lastly: How strong will a Legendary Unit be compared to a Nation? Weaker? Equal? Stronger? Or starting as weak and gradually becoming stronger?

In general i really believe this concept has a lot of potential, and im asking due to interest.
 
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Please, do not refrain from posting criticism or ideas on WOK, it's still being worked out in detail, although much of the map is already done
 
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Hehehe.
Oh right. Thats because i stole your idea, invented a time machine, and travelled back in time to post MY concept before you did. Just to make mockery of your great idea!

No u!

I will elaborate on my 1st post, addressing the things you stated.
The undead thing is pretty serious, I may have to change some things...

The dragon will only grow a certain amount (ie. Hatchling, Young, Something, Adult and then after a while, Ancient), this is mainly to stop it owning everyone else at the start of the game.
The manipulator's charm ability does not have a duration, it CAN start an army, albeit a small one.
The power of a Legendary player in comparison to an Empire player will most likely depend on skill, but as this is currently mostly just a concept, only time will tell.

The aforementioned update will also include the possibility of naval units (im not sure about this) and a connected Wind Speed system (Yay, more randomness :D)
 
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The dragon will only grow a certain amount (ie. Hatchling, Young, Something, Adult and then after a while, Ancient), this is mainly to stop it owning everyone else at the start of the game.

So it WILL own in late game? Or its gradual growth will match the others?
Also how fatal will death be for a Legendary?
Once chance? Start building for ressurect? Respawn? Reincarnation? Sofort and on.

Putting that aside. Making a new RTS with randomness, and night ambush is already a great idea. Making the Legendary units and the naval units could prove a greater challenge all by themselves.
IF, note IF, you should abandon this project, maybe because of the burden it may represent, i hope that part of it will be done.
Simply making 3 customized races, a well working luck system, aswell as the Night/Day vision system, would be a decent map all by it self.
Still i'm looking forward to see how this project will develop in your hands.
 
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Well it wont actually be that hard (just time consuming), at least not things like the Dragon growing and the naval units.
The growing will be a simple ability obtained at a certain level and Replaces.
The naval system will merely be an Integer that changes from time to time, this adds on to naval unit movement speed.
However, some thing (such as a reincarnation system for Liches) will prove to be a challenge. Oh well, Ill get through with it :D

Death will permanently kill the Legendary Unit, but they will be able to keep playing as something weak (Not sure what that will be).
This will keep bitching to a minimum, while still not being able to influence the tide of the game too much (meaning that the player can leave if they wish)

Oh, and I will check out your map. :)


EDIT. Oh, and the underlined sections in the 1st post are updates, check them out :D
 
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Well sounds good. Nice to hear, that youre not afraid of spending a lot of time on your concept.
Also i think the updates you made to the concept sounds good all around.
I must admit to have some doubt about the Infection race. I mean, the idea is really cool. But, once agian, i fear an unstable Power Curve, compared to the other races. Meaning that it may be hard to balance.
However i have high hopes. Keep developing the concept, and you might very well come up with a great map.

Oh, and nice of you to check out my map. Im afraid, that the "only" thing online is a description of concept and the systems, we've developed for the map.
I could, maybe, send you the map file to try out. If the rest of the Crew allows me to, that is.

Best of Luck with you map. I'll keep checking here for updates and, when you need testers, I and the crew will be happy to help.
 
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yeah this map sounds like its made of win! i cant wait till its done, oh and for legendary replacements perhaps reincarnation of them as in a dragons reincarnation strong just no where near as strong as its former self
 
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Well im back agian with a comment. Just read it through for updates and noticed something, that made me go: meh....
The expiration time on undead units. I must admit, having some doubts about such a system, and even if ít works properly, i got another comment.
Bonedrake can last an HOUR? Most people don't want to play <acronym title="Warcraft 3">wc3</acronym> maps, which last much more than an hour.
I, personally, like long maps, but most people don't. As an RTS i think the 1-2 hours would be a fitting game lenght. Believe that a clear limit would increase the maps succes, upon release.
 
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Indeed.
I have begun making it, and will post screenshots of vaguely what I am up to :D

EDIT. Added info on the Rumours system, Death Mechanics and NPC Settlements

{EDIT}
Nope, still very early.
leet.firefox will be doing the terrain, but he is currently brainstorming (ahem) and progress is slow...

While you wait, here is a sweet unit.
Ghost - Undead
It costs quite a bit and has 1 health, but very high armour (90% or so?) and a ranged attack (one of the only ones for this race). It also has a very useful strategic ability that allows it to simply float underground (or towards the surface if it is already there) and move to the "other map" (Overworld or Subterranean, depending on where it is).
 
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Always happy to see more progress. Also good to hear that leet.firefox is helping you. Teamwork always helps. Keep it up. I'll be waiting for this one.
 
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For the 'player decided alliances' make it so you cant be allied to someone who's allied to someone your not allied to.

Ex: Red ----Can't ally with Teal------ Cuz teals allied to Blue and Red isn't allied to Blue.

This way team arent messy.
 
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No, thats wrong! Diplomacy MUST be messy and confusing! It's about cheating, backstabbing, and jumping on every oppertunity for profit! You know, all the good stuff in life.
Seriously though, it is funnier that way. And more realistic. Try looking at todays diplomatic state. The mess there is worse than that of the economy.
 
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Lol im checking this tread at least 1nce every week because it sounds so awesome .. But it will take a LOT of time to create so well i just hope your done faster then blizzard lol ^^ Btw i love the shadow spawn model :D + the dragon fits the terrain..

P.S. is the Overworld the actual world and will it have those other sections (the one you can dig your own terrain) like on the sides or will you make different versions of this map with changed terrain.
 
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No, thats wrong! Diplomacy MUST be messy and confusing! It's about cheating, backstabbing, and jumping on every oppertunity for profit! You know, all the good stuff in life.
Seriously though, it is funnier that way. And more realistic. Try looking at todays diplomatic state. The mess there is worse than that of the economy.

It's imba that way...

Just like in Castle Builder, there's always one guy who allies to every but one person, and can then divert attention to his one enemy all game, making winning retardedly easy.

{EDIT}
IMBA does not = strategy
 
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Lol im checking this tread at least 1nce every week because it sounds so awesome .. But it will take a LOT of time to create so well i just hope your done faster then blizzard lol ^^ Btw i love the shadow spawn model :D + the dragon fits the terrain..

P.S. is the Overworld the actual world and will it have those other sections (the one you can dig your own terrain) like on the sides or will you make different versions of this map with changed terrain.

I will eventually change the Shadow Spawn model to a really nice thing ike and HT are working on.
The Overworld is pretty much everything above sea level, while the underworld, which I may not end up doing, is a series of caverns etc, underground.
Each of these will take up half of the map, and there will be various entrances scattered around.

EDIT. Put a link to Codename WOK up.
I will probably be resuming this soon.
 
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For the 'player decided alliances' make it so you cant be allied to someone who's allied to someone your not allied to.

Ex: Red ----Can't ally with Teal------ Cuz teals allied to Blue and Red isn't allied to Blue.

This way team arent messy.
there is 1 problem how can i ally to a team?
Ex: like Red is allied to blue teal want to join this team but he cannot cause he is allying 1 player per time and he wont be able to ally them because : Teal try ally red 1st but he cant cause red is allied to to blue and teal isn't.
 
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It's imba that way...

Just like in Castle Builder, there's always one guy who allies to every but one person, and can then divert attention to his one enemy all game, making winning retardedly easy.

You are completely right. But its unbalanced in a fun kind of way. Winning and loosing is not always what determines the fun of the game.
Open diplomacy is fun and, by the way, the concept has worked perfectly in several strategy-games/maps. Sure there's always the one guy who messes up the game, but those are not the people we design maps for.
 
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Mmmh , those rumors sound kinda nice .. its nice to have certain events but .. if some of those events are deadly you might not have them every day or at least not in the start .. people might die cus of it XD :cute:

2nd , i want to say 1 more thing about this map :
It's done when its done ..

nah thats not it :eekani: ,

Im hoping to see some gameplay soon , when you hit the stage when you can show it ..
 
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Lol, well leet.firefox's hard drive died, so there goes all the terrain D:
Needless to say, this will be delayed even further D:
The Events are not randomly generated things, but things the players do (For example, the Dragon growing up may bring about rumors etc.)
 
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Don't worry about the delay to much. We want a good map, not a rushed one. Take the time necesary, to do it properly.
 
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Based on what I've seen, I think this map will be work best at Local or Private games, rather that online.
But then agian, most maps do.
Anyway i like the terrain, as a rough skecht.
I does not seem to be very gameplay focused, rather interesting and lively. Based on that I'm guessing this map will be entertaining and fun, rather than appealing to proffesional, play-to-win kind of gamers.
Whether thats good or bad, is anyones guess. I, for one, like it.
 
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Meh.

EDIT. Ok, I will not make any villages, just the town. This is because, if I do, there will not be enough space for players to build. D:
After I upload the new version of the terrain, I will continue working on the units, and hopefully release a very early test-version.
This will, however, be barely playable. :D

EDIT2. Uploaded a new map WIP, this one has much better annotation. A lot of it is subject to change, especially the underworld passage positions.
 
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Thats not necesarily a good idea. For most people wc3 mapping is a side hobby. Being busy usually means having almost no time for hobbies.
Take for example my self. Half my day-hours spend at school. All my weekends booked up, every week, by friends and larp. Sparetime is use at eating, sleeping, homework and some hours of entertainment. That means that I normally have 1-2 hours in total each week, to do some actual work and a good part of that is spend remembering which exact data i was working on the time before.
In other words, if you're busy a map can easily be in making for 10 month and cutting down on work time is often done at the cost of quality.
 
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I do not set myself deadlines for warcraft mapping. Nor do I try to gauge the percentage of what I have done.
I do not think that this hobby, for yes, that is indeed what it is, should make me feel pressured.
 
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New unit progress screenshot. Yes, I know there are two Knights, I will find a new model for one of them (Light Cavalry) later.
This one is actually ingame too, mainly just to show off the awesome UI and cursor. :D

I will release a demo with some random creeps and the two Legendary Units I have (pretty much) completed - the Manipulator and Shadow Spawn.
 
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