Azeroth Wars Ascension V2

[Moderator]

Gilles: Map does not seem to be stolen, and works properly. Couldn't really test the balancing, but it seems to be a well made map. -Approved-

 

[panther-anthro]

Oh right, and this is to Haosis, if he's going to ignore this on grounds of Piracy. Really, you guys approved ganon's ver which had identical code to Augur without permission, but you ignored mine? Even though, I credited both Augur and Ganon, that's pretty low. I know you don't speak perfect English, Haosis, but pulling a under-handed move like that, even after Ganon made a written statement. *Check Gwydia, blizzcraft, or my own website, and you'll see a statement by Ganon regarding this map, and authorizing it's creation without being piracy.* Not to mention ganon passed the map onto specter, who also supports my making it.

Furthermore, I would like to point out, that I recoded the entire thing, remade every hero, made several new systems, and largely took out a lot of the negative features in the game, to speed it up so to say. Not to mention, I've just begun the reterraining process, and I added in a few new technical features, like a 'good' Camera.

Lastly, I would like to say, I think it's hillarious that you are able to blame anything for 'piracy' on hive, when you approve footmen maps, does anyone even credit the original footman map creator? Hell no. So really if you're going to call the piracy card, you gotta stop being hypocrites. Lastly, I would like to point out that my version, and those made by ganon etc, are almost entirely different, as there was more then a few massive alterations/changes, that I haven't even listed.

Original Reasons, which were proven false btw by Haosis:
MasterHaosis: Man I just gett information that you edited map without give credit to authros Augur and Darkganon_Rper
Man, READ RULES !!! This I call stealing. So you only have to give proper credit to both authors like people in previous maps

Oh, and here's a link to the statement by darkganon_Rper.
http://www.forums.gamerisle.org/index.php?topic=124.0
http://blizzcraft.org/woa/showthread.php?t=2132

 

[Firelord213]

There is proof that this map isn't stolen
http://www.forums.gamerisle.org/index.php?topic=124.0
Here does Darkganon him self say that Panther-Anthro is allowed to edit/continue working on his map.

 

[Erischamar]

Ganon gave the map to me, and I say it isn't stolen, so...
Here are some links:
http://www.forums.gamerisle.org/index.php?topic=124.15
http://www.wc3diplo.org/new-aws-editor-t3852.html'
Oh and, on the other sites, I'm Specter_Armada

 

[Craka_J]

I can't really point out anything that makes this "stolen", so... I say its not. Especially now since he has redone quite a bit of this map. If this is still convicted of being stolen, someone needs to check out the one who's convicting this map of such a crime.

I don't mean to open my mouth about the staff of the Hive, but I'm just supporting something/someone being falsely accused.

~Craka_J

 

[robot-dude]

Here are the links

http://www.forums.gamerisle.org/index.php?topic=124.0
http://blizzcraft.org/woa/showthread.php?t=2132
http://www.wc3diplo.org/new-aws-editor-t3852.html

he has fully redone the game made it alot better =] trust me check it out for ur selfs.

 

[Zeb]

Not stolen, as proven thus so far.

 

[panther-anthro]

Thanks for the Approval Gilles, I'm hoping I get some feedback on this version though!

 

[ShiroiSenji]

Seems to be good map

 

[LlamaNamedOsama]

...Did any of you guys bother to even read the links? Note the last one at blizzcraft mentioned by panther:

Ganon: "Correct. Panther was fixing a few triggers for it when he took the map and made AWA from it.

In return for an income limiter which I could not otherwise create, he said I had to post this on G-isle, Blizzcraft, PoLlama (Which was later excused), and Gwydia. =/."

...In essence, blackmail....

And just because Ganon gave permission for specter to have it, doesn't mean he gave permission for specter to freely give it to others >.>

 

[grunty1]

Panther blackmailed specter into making those statements, and has changed very little, mostly hero abilities and adding senseless railroad tracks to a sandbox style game.

The statement was the result of blackmail and if you speak to ganon personally he will tell you the same.

Hive is degrading itself encouraging this kind of behavior.

 

[panther-anthro]

Uh Really Grunty, And Llama, you guys do need to obtain lives, but furthermore, I would like to point out that your entirelw rong int hat regard.

Also Blackmail? Ganon never requested a limiter when I gave him the code. I did it in exchange for the limiter, which I could've just given to no one. As none of you were capable of making one.

Furthermore, I would like to point out, the fact that it's largely unchanged is total BS, a lot of balance changes, unit changes, more terrain changes coming, and over-all major event changes. Not to mention huge balance fixes, and a remake of how food is used. Also, getting rid of lumber.

Really grunty, get your facts straight.

P.S: Grunty, Specter is my friend, why the hell would I have to blackmail him? He just uses our forum, and enjoys it there, I can't help I'm not opressive to my members, and they do favors for me. ^^

 

[Numberzer0]

Panther you know my place is neutral but this map should not be on the hive because it is base off of stole work. The terrain yes it is being redone probable as i type this but it is still based off of stole work. Specter i respect him but he has for the time stop working on aws he said so here " http://www.wc3diplo.org/aws-new-t4021.html " So his statement about awa can not be counted. Also i'm doing this because of the hive standards and i can not let you all believe that this map was not stole. The deal was made after panther started to work on awa. My prof i give the cesspool of Gwydia
http://gwydia.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=37
It is in that topic some where between the back and forth flaming. I ask the people who approved this or have the power to disapprove this map to look back at the information i have brought against the map. And with all the facts rejudge this map right to be approved. I do want to say for the record i think it should get approved only when the terrain is completely different.

 

[LlamaNamedOsama]

Actually panther, the only thing required here is simple logic on your part.

>>>"Uh Really Grunty, And Llama, you guys do need to obtain lives,"<<<

Lmao? As much as I'd like to go on about how you lack a life for caring so much to insult us over a few comments on a forum, that's simply irrelevant, and frankly, immature. Your statement about "us lacking no lives" is a completely irrational attempt to cloak your own insecurity in the comments we make.

>>>"but furthermore, I would like to point out that your entirelw rong int hat regard. "<<<

For one that just shows how fired up you got - quite uncharacteristic of your typing, panther. But irrelevant, so anyhoo, moving on:

>>>"Also Blackmail? Ganon never requested a limiter when I gave him the code. I did it in exchange for the limiter, which I could've just given to no one."<<<

Again, ganons words clearly remain ganons words. You could have just given him such for free, but you did not now, did you. Again, ganons own words expressed his displeasure at having to state the words this "deal" required him to.

>>>"As none of you were capable of making one."<<<

Another silly and stupid statement, as never once did ganon request for one of us to help him with it, a large blunder and idiocy on his part.

>>>"Furthermore, I would like to point out, the fact that it's largely unchanged is total BS, a lot of balance changes, unit changes, more terrain changes coming, and over-all major event changes. Not to mention huge balance fixes, and a remake of how food is used. Also, getting rid of lumber."<<<

Regardless, its still based off entirely of the old one, meaning that it can't be entirely different unless it's made from scratch.

And to conclude, I largely agree with numberzer0 in this issue - this is no "flame", but a logical representation of the facts that I've provided.

 

[panther-anthro]

Rofl, seriously you guys don't understand, Why would you give something for free, to someone who has backstabbed you in the past?

Honestly Llama, Zero, you two have entirely invalid arguments based on the fact that, what ganon said automatically counts as being trurth. It's not stolen, if the code, heroes, and numberous other things were redone, and furthermore I would like to point out the utter falacy, and arrogance you two have to claim as such.

If someone has displeasure with something, it doesn't make him saying it invalid, that's like saying if a dictator is forced down and doesn't like it, it doesn't count.

Or someone admitting they were wrong, as being a fault. As far as hives rules are concerned the map is not piracy, also did you really just mention QUALITY on hive? Honestly, Hive doesn't base things on quality, it's all about quantity and draw on hive. If they get extra page views, and increased amount of money they like it. That's all it really comes down to.

Lastly, I claimed you guys had no lives based upon the fact that you made it a personal point to come here and try and harass the moderation? Really, good job making arguments based off something that would never stand up in a legal court. Furthermore, the fact that you guys show such a 'vindictive' attitude, towards the fact that I didn't give ganon something for free, because he was far to lazy to make one himself, and no one else could've made one, are entirely my own reasons. He asked for a working income system, no one else knew how to make a limiter, of course I'd barter for one of the hardest and most complex pieces of code I've ever made. It's a perfect and lag free system, I see no reason to have given something like that over for free. Also, Number etc all benefit from it. Also Number, just because you can quote topics, and things like that. Also Ganon is very lazy, which is why he was displeased about doing it. He himself claims that he's lazy, hell you want proof? He doesn't do tooltips, because he's to lazy to do it.

P.S: I still don't hate you guys, it's the other way around. Also, Llama, I've seen your code, you couldn't have done it.

 

[LlamaNamedOsama]

Glad you attempt a refutation without really addressing any point I made, lol.

>>>"Rofl, seriously you guys don't understand, Why would you give something for free, to someone who has backstabbed you in the past?"<<<

...That only furthers the point that you obviously did it to hurt Ganon, thus you obviously weren't "buds" whom he just happily handed off to you, lol.

>>>"Honestly Llama, Zero, you two have entirely invalid arguments based on the fact that, what ganon said automatically counts as being trurth. It's not stolen, if the code, heroes, and numberous other things were redone, and furthermore I would like to point out the utter falacy, and arrogance you two have to claim as such."<<<

Arrogance? The only arrogance comes from attempts to speak of himself "as being better in mapmaking" in a topic of which that has no relevance. Nor does it negate the fact that you've been acting pretty childishly here, as shown in your attempts to insult...

And your "logic" is pretty intriguing. Oh, you changed some things off something you took off with without permission so its not stealing? Okay, I'll steal, er "borrow" your car, repaint it, and I didn't steal anything from you! How great would that be, lol. As clearly shown, that logic is incorrect, and as opposed to simply stating its a fallacy, I haven proven that it is.

>>>"If someone has displeasure with something, it doesn't make him saying it invalid, that's like saying if a dictator is forced down and doesn't like it, it doesn't count."<<<

That's a pretty invalid analogy. A real one would be "if that dictator was forced at gunpoint to say something that he obviously didn't like, then he didn't mean what he said" which is exactly true.

>>>"Or someone admitting they were wrong, as being a fault. As far as hives rules are concerned the map is not piracy, also did you really just mention QUALITY on hive? Honestly, Hive doesn't base things on quality, it's all about quantity and draw on hive. If they get extra page views, and increased amount of money they like it. That's all it really comes down to."<<<

I've never mentioned anything about quality -- those mistakes happen when you fail to accurately address another's points.

>>>"Lastly, I claimed you guys had no lives based upon the fact that you made it a personal point to come here and try and harass the moderation?"<<<

Really, so you believe me typing 3 lines simply pointing out a referencable fact is now "harassment"? Bud, you sure need yto get your definitions straight. Much as you might feel so sensitive towards such remarks, I pretty much couldn't give a damn if some random kid on the internet decided to claim that I have no life, as that only shows irrational judgment and lack of maturity in their statements, since there's an obvious lack of clear, factual, and logical objectivity.

>>>"Really, good job making arguments based off something that would never stand up in a legal court. "<<<

...Not only is this a legal court, but I do believe the side trying to claim that the other side 'has no life', and making unwarranted claims would be the one to lose in legal court.

>>>"Furthermore, the fact that you guys show such a 'vindictive' attitude, towards the fact that I didn't give ganon something for free, because he was far to lazy to make one himself, and no one else could've made one, are entirely my own reasons."<<<

And those reasons (that are blatantly obvious) were to try to legitimize your 'illegal' use of his map. By the way, it's nice to see YOU speak of arrogance when here you are stating that you're the only one who could have made such a thing, it's ironic really.

>>>"He asked for a working income system, no one else knew how to make a limiter, of course I'd barter for one of the hardest and most complex pieces of code I've ever made."<<<

That's the hardest/most complex you've ever made? Lol, that's nice to know...

>>>"It's a perfect and lag free system, I see no reason to have given something like that over for free."<<<

...well then you're very short-sighted as anyone can see the obvious reason of "not being a selfish ass and having the capability to help others as opposed to just one's self." It's a nice thing to know.

>>>"Also, Number etc all benefit from it. Also Number, just because you can quote topics, and things like that. Also Ganon is very lazy, which is why he was displeased about doing it. He himself claims that he's lazy, hell you want proof? He doesn't do tooltips, because he's to lazy to do it."<<<

And? Sure he's lazy, but that's not why he's upset at giving permission for someone "who hijacked his map to continue it", as clearly laziness has nothing to do with it.

>>>"P.S: I still don't hate you guys, it's the other way around. "<<<

Yeah, because you totally are trying to be friends by saying we have no lives. The truth is merely that you attempt throw things over your real personality, but its all transparent glass, unfortunately, as many have seen through. I'm sorry if it hurts you, but that's the way the truth is sometimes.

>>>"Also, Llama, I've seen your code, you couldn't have done it."<<<

Right, just like you "saw" my map when you criticized it, when it was 30 versions older than the currently outdated. And I've seen your work, and really, nothing you can do impresses much at all...

So whatever, have 'fun' with pride, selfishness, and arrogance, but when you'll return to real life, it'll bite ya in the ass .

 

[panther-anthro]

Llama, Nothing you've said so far would make the statement not valid. I don't see how the statement was not said, and why it would be invalidated. Also, why would I want to help out Ganon, or for that matter others who have been nothing but unappreciative of anything I do for them?

Also, I was adressing the hive's definition of a pirated map, enough being changed or lacking a written approval of the map directly changing hands. I have the second one for sure, even if you claim it's invalid because he didn't want to do it. Also, I really think the quality of updates ganon was putting out was abysmal, and didn't improve at all from version to version.

Also about the coding thing. More so the code was very time consuming, and to make it work properly with multiple variations of the limit, for future vers, I had to make it act differently from the one augur used, which was lot more simple in design. This one can operate on a scaling system, and gradually increase or decrease the limit, it can also create individualized limits etc with 0 difficulty. Also, I was trying to make it easy enough to use, that ganon could use it. But, he didn't seem to want to, so he starts complaining now, about having to spend his time posting something he made a agreement for? By the way he didn't even install the limiter on aws 2.2 , I did. Also, you neglect to mention, that I also remade a vast majority of the other code, and it's 100% redone in AWA itself.

Can you explain why I should give Ganon a piece of code, when he was clearly going to make the code itself open source without even asking me beforehand? It didn't bother me that much, but why would I just give him the limiter, and then he'd continue to claim the map as stolen. When my agreement for redoing all the code in the first place was to be given a copy of the map for myself, and for him to validate said copy of it. But he did renig on the initial deal, and thought I wouldn't go through with it. So, I should've given him something for backstabbing me? That doesn't seeem very logical Llama. I don't trust ganon, nor owe him anything, and he's never been a good friend to me. Also, do you see me going over to your topics/forums etc and harassing your members, like members of your community do at my forum? Also, The fact that your community has banned me multiple times without any reason, is more then a bit funny.

Also, why is that you feel a need to try and convince the hive moderators of something, when you clearly haven't read their rules regarding piracy. I still meet more then enough conditions, and I used to moderate maps, etc myself. I know what qualifies as Piracy, and this can't be rejected on grounds of Piracy. Unless you can prove that ganon didn't say those statements? I did the az war community a huge favor by redoing the code for ganon, it's his fault for not using it, I even told him what flaws I found in the code from my own testing, but he didn't want to fix them. Next you'll say I should've fixed them for him. This just further leads to ganon is extremely lazy, and anything to do with 'work' scares him away from doing it. It's the real reason 2.2 never released.

But, I would like to know, why should I want to be friends with a community that spreads propaganda and hate regarding me, when my intentions for making AWA were nothing but noble. Furthermore, are you going to claim that now 'number' who wasn't even designated by anyone is now more official a editor then me or specter? Ganon passed the map onto Specter for AWS 2.2, and he did technically validate my copy. So the fact that I actually support and help out specter is 'evil' now? I'm sorry I'm nice to the people who use my forum, and actually help them out quite a bit. Why would I want to be friends with a community that doesn't want to be friends with me ? Even though, I've written several hero lists *which many were used* for DAOW, gave many suggestions for Az Wars when ganon was working on it.

I also, did a hell of a lot more work then Ganon ever did on the map. All of his changes were superficial and in my opinion rather small and uncomplicated. I was following the progress of the map under ganon, and found it to be stagnant, and he only focused on adding new things instead of fixing issues, because it was 'easier'.

Lastly, No I'm saying you guys obviously need something better to do then come all the way over here just to harass me? I mean really, don't you have some new vers to be putting out Llama. Also, Llama, I did review your map a second time, and it didn't fix any of the problems I listed on the review of the earlier vers. My problems were entirely polish based on your vers, and I found the quality of terrain to be blah, but that can be excused.

P.S: Llama I'm glad to see you actually have the will to argue back, I rather enjoy this kind of parlay. Also, what makes you assume I haven't been rebuilding most of the map, I already remade the hardest to redo part, which was the code. Terrain, will soon follow suit, along with all the unit tech trees etc. But most of my changes up to this point were under the hood, or heroes, and a few unit removals, system changes.

 

[grunty1]

http://blizzcraft.org/woa/showthread.php?t=2132

This is really the only link thats needs to be seen. Ganons and Panthers own words here show everything

Panther forced ganon into making statements that he later said he didn't mean at all. Those posts were however conveniently deleted when Panther's friend specter deleted every post in the gwydia Azeroth Wars section.

I encourage anyone from hive to read that thread and then tell me that Panther is legit.

 

[panther-anthro]

{Grunty:http://blizzcraft.org/woa/showthread.php?t=2132

This is really the only link thats needs to be seen. Ganons and Panthers own words here show everything

Panther forced ganon into making statements that he later said he didn't mean at all. Those posts were however conveniently deleted when Panther's friend specter deleted every post in the gwydia Azeroth Wars section.

I encourage anyone from hive to read that thread and then tell me that Panther is legit.}

This goes back to my original statement of, jjust because Ganon says something, doesn't always make it true. Not to mention the general fact that Ganon is incredibly ungrateful, and just disliked using his time to do anything. He also has a warped sense of logic like the rest of you, in that you think just because you don't like doing something, means what you did doesn't count.

I hate to tell you this grunty, but the fact that he made the statements is all that matters according to hiveworkshop rules, so please try and make a better argument.

 

[grunty1]

True, ganon isn't always right, but you see, when the question is about ganon's opinion, what ganon says is right.

Not to mention the fact that you brake down like a 12 year old in there because everybody is harrasing you for stealing the map.

I hate to tell you panther, but if this is within hive rules, then they either very sloppy, or just ridiculously self-contradicting, why dont I post deprotect on here so everyone can take someone else's map, stick their name on it, and then sucker them into making fake statements.

 

[Numberzer0]

Panther you are breaking down and harssing me into stop working on aws 2. I believe it is because i have post my first response here. That is based on the fact that before i post here i was not attacked by you and after i posted i have been repeatedly attack. i will show this by posting link to where you have attacked me and i would like you all to compare the dates.

http://www.forums.gamerisle.org/index.php?topic=124.0
http://gwydia.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=520&start=0

this one may be seen as not important or on topic but it proff that he is attacking us after we went against him here.

http://gwydia.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=538

 

[panther-anthro]

[True, ganon isn't always right, but you see, when the question is about ganon's opinion, what ganon says is right.

Not to mention the fact that you brake down like a 12 year old in there because everybody is harrasing you for stealing the map.

I hate to tell you panther, but if this is within hive rules, then they either very sloppy, or just ridiculously self-contradicting, why dont I post deprotect on here so everyone can take someone else's map, stick their name on it, and then sucker them into making fake statements.]

Lol, yea they have pretty weak rules, and their also lenient, and make several exceptions to maps like this, so they accept footman and loap maps ;p, and dota clones...

Also, the rules say nothing about opinion, just a written statement. So opinion is a invalid point.

 

[Numberzer0]

Hello i got prof to my claims.
Also there is one aws maker right now and that me and my team. that more than one. If you use specter as a counter he quit for now i have proved that. So i say what i say as being the maker is that we can not prove if you stole it and ganon is an untruthful sources. What we do know is that you are using my terrain in most places. Also you are using some of my tech trees. If that is not stole what is panther. I still say that all my old argument are true. But i'm willing to put all of that behind me if you do not post this map till no aws is left in it.

 

[panther-anthro]

[Hello i got prof and there is one aws maker right now and that me and my team. that more than one. If you use specter as a counter he quit for now i have proved that. So i say what i say as being the maker is that we can not prove if you stole it and ganon is an untruthful sources. What we do know is that you are using my terrain in most places. Also you are using some of my tech trees. If that is not stole what is panther. I still say that all my old argument are true. But i'm willing to put all of that behind me if you do not post this map till no aws is left in it.]

Again with the Engrish, it shames me that your American Number, because you can't speak your native tongue.

Anyway, you didn't make them now did you? Also, most of the tech trees are blizzard's or rather modified by augur, then ganon. So no, you actually made nothing, and thus deserve zip. Also, Ganon didn't even pass it down to you. You just claimed ownership of it, so don't go there.

 

[grunty1]

"Also, Ganon didn't even pass it down to you. You just claimed ownership of it, so don't go there."

Just for clarification, are you talking to numberz, or in the 3rd person? Because if your talking to numberz, ganon in fact DID, if your talking in the third person, then you'd be completely right in the matter.

 

[Numberzer0]

How did i get the map if not from ganon? I can't hack! Ok fine the terrain is mine by right of owner ship to aws.

 

[panther-anthro]

[How did i get the map if not from ganon? I can't hack! Ok fine the terrain is mine by right of owner ship to aws.]

Map was passed onto specter, making that claim invalid. You obviously don't understand the concept of ownership, if he gave it to specter, he gave it to specter. You guys can't just renig because specter lashed out against your community.

 

[grunty1]

Your idiots if any of you think anyone can claim "owndership" to a wc3 map.

 

[Numberzer0]

HE stop makeing it did noone read my posteds. I had link to back what i was saying.

specter said this
Not anymore. You go ruin the franchise, I'll be waiting to pick up the pieces. >>

 

[panther-anthro]

[HE stop makeing it did noone read my posteds. I had link to back what i was saying.

specter said this
Not anymore. You go ruin the franchise, I'll be waiting to pick up the pieces. >>]

That's why he's working on a version? He even asked for a board.

 

[LlamaNamedOsama]

>>>"Llama, Nothing you've said so far would make the statement not valid. I don't see how the statement was not said, and why it would be invalidated."<<<

Then you haven't been paying attention. This comes particularly so often in courts of law or treatises, that "agreements" in which one is under "distress" is not considered valid. In essnece, they don't really mean that they're agreeing; the whole point isn't at all whether or not he said it, but it's whether or not what he said counts. And clearly we see that although he "says" he gives consent, he isn't really doing so.

>>>"Also, why would I want to help out Ganon, or for that matter others who have been nothing but unappreciative of anything I do for them?"<<<

So don't "help" period then, it's quite simple.

>>>"Also, I was adressing the hive's definition of a pirated map, enough being changed or lacking a written approval of the map directly changing hands. I have the second one for sure, even if you claim it's invalid because he didn't want to do it. Also, I really think the quality of updates ganon was putting out was abysmal, and didn't improve at all from version to version. "<<<

Sure, but if it's his map it's his map, and it's not your role to become 'judge' and take it from him...again, though, ganon was a fool for actually accepting such a deal.

>>>"Also about the coding thing. More so the code was very time consuming, and to make it work properly with multiple variations of the limit, for future vers, I had to make it act differently from the one augur used, which was lot more simple in design. This one can operate on a scaling system, and gradually increase or decrease the limit, it can also create individualized limits etc with 0 difficulty. Also, I was trying to make it easy enough to use, that ganon could use it. But, he didn't seem to want to, so he starts complaining now, about having to spend his time posting something he made a agreement for? By the way he didn't even install the limiter on aws 2.2 , I did. Also, you neglect to mention, that I also remade a vast majority of the other code, and it's 100% redone in AWA itself."<<<

"neglect" to mention? Rather didn't care to mention. If you "did so much work", then why not simply a map from scratch.

>>>"Can you explain why I should give Ganon a piece of code, when he was clearly going to make the code itself open source without even asking me beforehand? It didn't bother me that much, but why would I just give him the limiter, and then he'd continue to claim the map as stolen. When my agreement for redoing all the code in the first place was to be given a copy of the map for myself, and for him to validate said copy of it. But he did renig on the initial deal, and thought I wouldn't go through with it. So, I should've given him something for backstabbing me? That doesn't seeem very logical Llama. I don't trust ganon, nor owe him anything, and he's never been a good friend to me. "<<<

And? Then just don't give it to him. But alas, you found a way to bs some justification for your actions, and he was stupid enough to "accept" it.

>>>"Also, do you see me going over to your topics/forums etc and harassing your members, like members of your community do at my forum? Also, The fact that your community has banned me multiple times without any reason, is more then a bit funny."<<<

And? This is entirely irrelevant to the conversation, as I obviously hold no ownership over other people at the same forum. It's, sadly, another ill-made attempt of yours to insult, really.

>>>"Also, why is that you feel a need to try and convince the hive moderators of something, when you clearly haven't read their rules regarding piracy. I still meet more then enough conditions, and I used to moderate maps, etc myself. I know what qualifies as Piracy, and this can't be rejected on grounds of Piracy. Unless you can prove that ganon didn't say those statements? I did the az war community a huge favor by redoing the code for ganon, it's his fault for not using it, I even told him what flaws I found in the code from my own testing, but he didn't want to fix them. Next you'll say I should've fixed them for him. This just further leads to ganon is extremely lazy, and anything to do with 'work' scares him away from doing it. It's the real reason 2.2 never released."<<<

I'm not "trying" to convince anyone of anything. I've just stated things how they are. And it's pretty obvious how ganon felt in those events.

It doesn't matter if ganons lazy or not. If a mapmaker is lazy with his map, he's lazy with his map.

>>>"But, I would like to know, why should I want to be friends with a community that spreads propaganda and hate regarding me, when my intentions for making AWA were nothing but noble. Furthermore, are you going to claim that now 'number' who wasn't even designated by anyone is now more official a editor then me or specter? Ganon passed the map onto Specter for AWS 2.2, and he did technically validate my copy."<<<

I've yet to see any real propaganda. There's no need to sway anyone with propaganda when they all already feel the same way.

He "technically" validated your copy, but did not truly validate it.

>>>"So the fact that I actually support and help out specter is 'evil' now? I'm sorry I'm nice to the people who use my forum, and actually help them out quite a bit. Why would I want to be friends with a community that doesn't want to be friends with me ? Even though, I've written several hero lists *which many were used* for DAOW, gave many suggestions for Az Wars when ganon was working on it. "<<<

Never said anything about this.

>>>"I also, did a hell of a lot more work then Ganon ever did on the map. All of his changes were superficial and in my opinion rather small and uncomplicated. I was following the progress of the map under ganon, and found it to be stagnant, and he only focused on adding new things instead of fixing issues, because it was 'easier'."<<<

And that's his decision to make.

>>>"Lastly, No I'm saying you guys obviously need something better to do then come all the way over here just to harass me? I mean really, don't you have some new vers to be putting out Llama."<<<

What, does it take 3 hours to make a comment for you? It's a breeze for me to type this up in less than 10 minutes, doing whatever I'm doing at the moment. It's purely irrational attempts to insult to assume that "you need something better to do then come ALL THE WAY OVER HERE." Kid, it's the age of the internet, "coming all the way over here" is called one click of a mouse. "And panther, don't you have some new vers to be putting out panther, instead of responding to random comments all the way over here?" Just to mimic the ridiculousness of that statement.

>>>" Also, Llama, I did review your map a second time, and it didn't fix any of the problems I listed on the review of the earlier vers. My problems were entirely polish based on your vers, and I found the quality of terrain to be blah, but that can be excused."<<<

In your own words, all you did was moronically state "God it sucks", and made nothing of any contributive value, just words of foolhardy ranting or meaningless statements.

>>>"P.S: Llama I'm glad to see you actually have the will to argue back, I rather enjoy this kind of parlay. Also, what makes you assume I haven't been rebuilding most of the map, I already remade the hardest to redo part, which was the code. Terrain, will soon follow suit, along with all the unit tech trees etc. But most of my changes up to this point were under the hood, or heroes, and a few unit removals, system changes."<<<

Actually, pretty doubtful you enjoy any real debate since you've pretty much never stepped foot in a thinking cap/intelligent discussion forum, though you will probably do so now to try to 'prove me wrong.'

And in essence, my real question, is why you simply haven't remade the map, if you're going to make it "completely different."

 

[panther-anthro]

[Actually, pretty doubtful you enjoy any real debate since you've pretty much never stepped foot in a thinking cap/intelligent discussion forum, though you will probably do so now to try to 'prove me wrong.']

Uh Llama, I use the debate section on Gamerisle quite a bit, but majority of the people on my forum are liberal, so their all going to side against a conservative capitalist.

[In your own words, all you did was moronically state "God it sucks", and made nothing of any contributive value, just words of foolhardy ranting or meaningless statements.]

No, I gave examples of how it was bad, and you said you don't care about terrain, or good tooltips. Not to mention, I think you all out lack a willingness to go through and create such a thing, to increase the over-all polish level of the map. I know it's not a 'fun' mapping thing to do tooltips, but it pays off in that it makes your map look that much better.

[What, does it take 3 hours to make a comment for you? It's a breeze for me to type this up in less than 10 minutes, doing whatever I'm doing at the moment. It's purely irrational attempts to insult to assume that "you need something better to do then come ALL THE WAY OVER HERE." Kid, it's the age of the internet, "coming all the way over here" is called one click of a mouse. "And panther, don't you have some new vers to be putting out panther, instead of responding to random comments all the way over here?" Just to mimic the ridiculousness of that statement.]

Actually, I've been working on a new version of AWA, and playing a lot of Europa Universalis: Rome, but that's really beyond the point. I was implying, I don't see what you gain from coming here to harass me, when it won't have any real effect?

[Sure, but if it's his map it's his map, and it's not your role to become 'judge' and take it from him...again, though, ganon was a fool for actually accepting such a deal.]

Want an example where I do have that right? It's called using it as a terrain template, in map making, you are allowed without piracy claims to use a map as a terrain template, as long as the code is all yours etc. Ganon did not do that, he actually did commit piracy. AWA on the other hand, has always had entirely different code from Azeroth Wars, and heroes, etc. So in reality, it unlike AWS 2 etc, are not piracy. LR is not piracy by the same regard.

[Then you haven't been paying attention. This comes particularly so often in courts of law or treatises, that "agreements" in which one is under "distress" is not considered valid. In essnece, they don't really mean that they're agreeing; the whole point isn't at all whether or not he said it, but it's whether or not what he said counts. And clearly we see that although he "says" he gives consent, he isn't really doing so.]

That depends, this doesn't apply to anything like that kind of case. Because, it wasn't like I was forcing him to do anything, I gave him a offer and he accepted it. I didn't have to give him the limiter at all, and he didn't have to accept the deal.

 

[LlamaNamedOsama]

>>>"Uh Llama, I use the debate section on Gamerisle quite a bit, but majority of the people on my forum are liberal, so their all going to side against a conservative capitalist."<<<

Undoubtedly a person would interact with every portion of their own forum, as even James7 took part in such an area in his, and knowing him, it's known he doesn't really do such a thing. Likewise, claiming involvement in one of your own forum is no real feat, but w/e.

>>>"No, I gave examples of how it was bad, and you said you don't care about terrain, or good tooltips. Not to mention, I think you all out lack a willingness to go through and create such a thing, to increase the over-all polish level of the map. I know it's not a 'fun' mapping thing to do tooltips, but it pays off in that it makes your map look that much better."<<<

Then you need to work on your memory, as I said that I value gameplay over terrain/good tooltips. It's called prioritization, if I really didn't care about those, I would have thrown in anything at all.

You did no such thing as give examples of how it was bad - you only did such a thing in your criticism of the 30-versions earlier, afterwards, you just said "could use more work," when obviously I myself noted that it's all just polish and aesthetics that come secondary in making a map, in which I would address sometime later.

>>>"Actually, I've been working on a new version of AWA, and playing a lot of Europa Universalis: Rome, but that's really beyond the point. I was implying, I don't see what you gain from coming here to harass me, when it won't have any real effect?"<<<

Again your silly ego blinds you as I have obviously stated twice before that I'm just making observations/saying things how they are, not trying to 'harass' you as you so oddly believe. After all, every post here has been a response to you addressing me, as my first was obviously no attempt to "harass."

>>>"Want an example where I do have that right? It's called using it as a terrain template, in map making, you are allowed without piracy claims to use a map as a terrain template, as long as the code is all yours etc. Ganon did not do that, he actually did commit piracy. AWA on the other hand, has always had entirely different code from Azeroth Wars, and heroes, etc. So in reality, it unlike AWS 2 etc, are not piracy. LR is not piracy by the same regard."<<<

There's much more than terrain that's being used, again, if it was merely that you could have simply made your own map from scratch, that's an interesting question I have that you've neglected to include in your response.

>>>"That depends, this doesn't apply to anything like that kind of case. Because, it wasn't like I was forcing him to do anything, I gave him a offer and he accepted it. I didn't have to give him the limiter at all, and he didn't have to accept the deal."<<<

Again, it's quite clear ganon was a fool. However, the analogy is pointing out that simply "saying" isn't automatic consent, and that disagreeal with what one has to say may invalidate it. You say that he was not 'forced' to, but perhaps he was in his certain situation. Friends of ganon in the AWS community mention that he was tricked in this "deal" after all.


Anyways, I've already made my statements, and intriguing enough, though you tell me and others to "go away", you perpetuate the cycle by making such responses. There is no real value of this conversation you wish to continue, thus, adios.

 

[panther-anthro]

[Then you need to work on your memory, as I said that I value gameplay over terrain/good tooltips. It's called prioritization, if I really didn't care about those, I would have thrown in anything at all.

You did no such thing as give examples of how it was bad - you only did such a thing in your criticism of the 30-versions earlier, afterwards, you just said "could use more work," when obviously I myself noted that it's all just polish and aesthetics that come secondary in making a map, in which I would address sometime later.]

I didn't see MASSIVE changes to the general gameplay either, improvements yes, but nothing to warrant totally avoiding all aesthetics. Which was my general point in the review.

[There's much more than terrain that's being used, again, if it was merely that you could have simply made your own map from scratch, that's an interesting question I have that you've neglected to include in your response.]

Well lets see, all the spells that I used are from blizzard, or from myself. So that defeats that point. The heroes are mine, a lot of units were changed, most of the tech trees are identical to their blizzard counterpart, the code is mine, theres a lot of new terrain now. But it's still just major bases, atm.

Hmm, also why would I go into debate sections on other websites? Most people dislike me as a whole, so it'd degenerate into a flame war. Or rather, most people dislike my policies on general things, and the fact that I'm expansionist. As in, I want to increase the size of my own forum, and member base. Which I don't see the real problem with wanting more feedback for my maps, etc.

 

[Mc_Flurry]

looks and sounds fun ill be shure to dl a.s.a.p...

 

[panther-anthro]

[looks and sounds fun ill be shure to dl a.s.a.p...]

Well if you like this one a lot, try out my other map Conflict for Sereg D`or, that's much closer to a finished work, and I wrote the entire lore for it.

 

[Omniferous]

Panther, I was a big fan of Conflict for Sereg'dor, so it disappoints me greatly that you reproduced AWS without permission. You've shown you can make a good map from scratch: it just makes you look bad at this point to steal from others.

 

[panther-anthro]

Panther, I was a big fan of Conflict for Sereg'dor, so it disappoints me greatly that you reproduced AWS without permission. You've shown you can make a good map from scratch: it just makes you look bad at this point to steal from others.]

Not stolen, made with permission from Ganon, written permission, check my website if you need proof. There's a huge topic about it. Furthermore, it can't even be considered stolen, as it doesn't use any of the old maps code, heroes, etc.

 

[Gespenst]

This map was superb, i tried it out and most things ran smoothly, save for a few details i noticed:

When king terenas dies and you choose to join scourge, the "lordaron city ruins" spawns outside of that little walled area, instead of where the original lordaeron city was.

And By the way, you cant pirate maps made with the blizzard world editor, all maps made with the blizzard world editor are property of blizzard, though it would be bad to steal credit of making the map.

 

[panther-anthro]

[This map was superb, i tried it out and most things ran smoothly, save for a few details i noticed:

When king terenas dies and you choose to join scourge, the "lordaron city ruins" spawns outside of that little walled area, instead of where the original lordaeron city was.

And By the way, you cant pirate maps made with the blizzard world editor, all maps made with the blizzard world editor are property of blizzard, though it would be bad to steal credit of making the map.]

Yea, we had a minor problem with that, but I intend on fixing it, really soon. I still have a lot of things, I wanna fix, but thanks for the compliment!

 

[Gespenst]

There were a few more bugs and problems.

When trying to repair buildings(like towers), it costs wood, and so it is impossible to acually repair structures.

And another issue, when you run out of food you dont get any more gold. If you dont get gold how do you buy more food? I propose that every unit has a techtree requirement, a unit called "needs food". it has 0 vision, the "locust" ability so its invul and unselectable, has 0 pathing, and can fly, then set it in a corner, which each player has one inside(the corner). When a player runs out of food, the unit disappears so that the player cannot train units or build structures, but have the ability to gain gold so they can buy food, then the unit is re-created.

 

[panther-anthro]

Thanks for reporting errors, etc. New version is out, here is changelog.

Changelog for 1.6:

* The Blackrock Horde exists. Teal is now the Black Rock orcs, who serve their mighty warchief Dal'rend.
* Countless new units for Blackrock, and other nations!
* Aerie Peak, Falstad Dragonreaver, and Dwarven Silverhand Paladins!
* No more gnomes!
* Fixed various bugs, and Nazjatar entrance!
* Fixed a minor balance issue.
* Doomlord Kazzak! The legion has now been entirely remade, and the new major hero for The Legion is Doomlord Kazzak!
* Dark Portal/Outland start closed
* Revised Khadgar, Stromguarde, and Nethergarde
* Several new abilities, and map fixes to many nations!
* Removal of blue base on Northrend.
* New Blue base with Kazzak in Blasted Lands
* New System for Summoning
* New units for legion!
* Note: Legion is a work in progress, and more units will be added, as they are made. They will come in patchs, as I test the balance of the current unit roster!
* New terrain in many areas!

 

[Gurkengelee]

I don´t know if you stole it or not. That is a decision that others have to make. I´m for myself are happy that anyone carries on working on the map because i liked it so much but it bugged and crashed a lot. So from what I have seen from your map it´s a lot of fun with a lot of improvements and a lot of bugfixes and I love playing on it and rule Azeroth as Lich King. Since many units are available you have many strategies to choose from and diplomatie with friends and foes is so sweet when you can be a friend of everyone while they crush their heads. The terrain is nice, the gold points are fairly distributed.

Some small bugfixes that you may be able to make in a minute:
-fix repair costs to need no more lumber
-get an icon for the meat shield ability of the abominations
-gold circles are immune to magic .. a bit difficult for dalaran

There was one bug more that I wanted to report when I start writing this ... I don´t remember now.

But what I wanted to ask you, if you can give me an idea of how you did the open/close ability of the gates. This would be nice to have in my own map.

So far and keep on the good work!
I am going to play your other map at soon as possible.

 

[Teldrassil]

Alright guys couple things,

1. good map panther, I prefer it over the other Azeroth Wars
2. Guys stop arguing in such long posts, makes it difficult to take a side
3. The map is not stolen, it's more, redone. As stated before, there are countless footmen frenzy games, 90% do not give credit to anyone and all are accepted on the hive. I've seen many many remakes of games all accepted.
4. When it comes down to it, all maps are essentially owned by Blizzard, so there's no real point in arguing over ownership

Keep up the good work panther.

 

[blue_is_mia]

Great map, i've gotten occasional fatals though..

First of all, don't just look at the map from here or just play it once and say "omg you stole the map" #1 false #2 ignorant. Second, yes he did change it considerably, play both maps (full house or close) from 4-5 with being different races each time. Third, it's approved by THW so just shut the fuck up and get on with what you have left of your dignity (your opinion will most likely not matter at all). Great map, you succeed at your mission which was to improve it (you did so highly). Don't see so much wrong with it. Two thumbs up, 5/5, etc.

 

[Teldrassil]

Also, Panther, the allied forces seem to be overpowered, there's just too many of them. They slaughter through blue and reds forces at the start and end up taking lordaeron pretty much unchallenged. In every game I've been in the allies have always won. Even when the night elves rule unapposed and build up forces all game, it just wasn't enough. You should look into an upgrade or something, that's higher depending on the less amount of players on the allies. So the more they are the weaker their units, or something like that.

 

[Rui]

I've played 1.6F some time ago and I'll send my comment...

[+]The map has a valid name, an author name and is finished. The description could be improved, though.
[+]The fact that the map uses a new food system (the previous one sucked) and no lumber makes it more appealing than other alternatives (for certain tastes, of course).
[+]Machine/Net friendly. Not insane laggy like Legacy Reborn.
[+/-]The terrain is not totally bad, but there should have been more work, this is almost completely from the original Azeroth Wars. The shape is not very accurate either. Tyr's Hand looks more like a base from Conflict of Sereg D´or than anything else.
[+/-]No major bugs. Guard Towers require the Lumber Mill, but aside from that, nothing that could interfere with the gameplay.
[+/-]I doubt I can give a plus to any Azeroth Wars in balance. I played with Paladins, and I only needed a few ranged units to take the northern Blackrock base, even though Teal trained 20 Grunts, more or less.
Taking the Scourge's base wasn't hard either. And the nuke on the heroes...
The game seemed stable, though. Again, unlike Legacy Reborn.
[-]I saw no effects used.
[-]Not original. It's just another edition of Azeroth Wars, I heard this was spawn-based but I guess I was mistaken.
And in the Hive nothing was done regarding that story of the tricking, but the case wasn't declared archived.
[-]Like in LR, there is still much work to be done on the Object data. Wrong button positions, horrible built-up techtrees, etc. I am going to repeat: I know this is mostly the fault of previous creators, but apparently, the map has had enough updates to fix these.

This map can grow to be a good one, but for now, it needs fixing, especially on the Object Data.
My rating for this resource is 3/5 (Useful).

By the way, Inferious, I saw you rated 1 on both Conflict for Sereg D´or and Ascension. Just because you (apparently) have personal struggles with Panther, it doesn't give you the right to downrate. Do this again and you'll have an infraction coming your way.

 

[snozzer789]

This map does not seem to work the teams will not show up please Help!!!!

 

[Da Troll]

It doesn't work on patch 1.26a