Announcement: Gaias final 1.2C(9) release and future Map Expander releases

[Zwiebelchen]

Hello folks; sorry for my absence, but I had been hit with a hard work schedule over the last weeks and only visited the Discord channel briefly to give some minor updates.
As many people don't have Discord, I see how this is a bad thing and will try to post more progress updates in the forums again for you interested people to catch up.


As you guys noticed, I have been trying hard to push out new content within the limits of what is possible in the few amounts of kilobytes I still have left before I will hit the magic 8 MB map size limit. But there is only so much I can do from here on.
After all, even simple JASS code takes up significant map space at some point (after all, each typed letter equals 1 byte) and I reached a huge roadblock at which I don't even have the means to add new abilities or skills before tipping the game over the limit.


But I also don't want to wait for Blizzard patches any further, because I feel it might take ages for them to fulfill their promises. And I'm starting to have more and more doubts that it will happen at all.


So over the next days, I will try to release the final iteration of "Bnet-ready" 1.2C, which will have all the currently known bugs and issues fixed, aswell as fixing some problems in Blackfire Deep.
After that, I will drop support for the current variant of the map and will continue with content creation, releasing a size-updated version containing new items (especially for Blackfire Deep), new abilities, new mounts and updated (environment and hero) textures.

This new unofficial "Gold" version will require the use of Warcraft III bypass map file size limit. [ver.6] to play and will be my new developement build until Blizzard patches the game again. At this point, we will hopefully get the map size limit increased so that the Gold version can become the new official.
I really hate to split the community here, but there is no way around that for the time being.

"Gold" version updates will be posted as a seperate map thread, so that both versions do not get confused with each other. I also hope that we will be able to host both versions of the map via the host bot simultanously, so that people that don't want to install the 3rd party tool I linked above will still be able to play 1.2C(9) normally.

 

[sluk]

wait so i have a map he is now 21 000 KB i mean i will make it less but not less than 19 000-18 000 so i can not play it online?

 

[Emm-A-]

Hi Zwiebelchen,

I think, you are doing the right thing, getting rid of stupid constraints. I think, your game is big enough to take this step.

Did you think of creating a poll for that? It is usually a good idea to involve fans, people ...

Good luck with all of that!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I thought long about taking this step. And if there was a way not to divide the community, I would have taken it, believe me. The amount of compression and optimization I applied behind the scenes is obscene. I am still amazed at times about how far I could take this before reaching the limit, but there is no way I can go on from this point. I pushed everything to the limit.

At this point, all I can hope for is that the experienced players join the bandwagon and help spread the word once it's done, so that more casual players can find their way to the new extended Gaias. I plan to put a message in the loading screen message of the last release aswell, so that casual players get informed about the divide and get presented a solution on how to continue playing beyond that.


So there is no real point in having a poll here, as there is no way for me to continue otherwise. So the poll would basicly be: "do you want me to continue? - Yes/No"? And I bet that one would be a landslide.

And the third option of slimming down the map is not an option for me: I refuse to compromise artistic quality (= removing art assets) for a stupid limit that shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[sluk]

? limit? i dont have a limit i mean on my map
like i have a map from 21 KB as i already said

 

[Emm-A-]

"do you want me to continue? - Yes/No"

I thought more about "what do you think about taking this step?" Usually, asking people about their opinion increases the probability, that something like this works out well in the end.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I thought more about "what do you think about taking this step?" Usually, asking people about their opinion increases the probability, that something like this works out well in the end.

Well, that's what this thread is for. Feel free to share your thoughts about it.

 

[Emm-A-]

then we missunderstood each other. The threads title and first post does not really make it clear, that you would like people share their thoughts here, that is why I was asking.

Going to quite myself:

I think, you are doing the right thing, getting rid of stupid constraints. I think, your game is big enough to take this step.

 

[sluk]

so i wanna share something but i know that you all ignore me but
Gaias is a game that i really love at low lvl when there is a goal going to max lvl and exploring new area's and get gear....
when i was max lvl i knew there will come updates and there will be new gear new area's... but i never had the real GOAL FEELING again
my suggestion:
i love the cinamtic and the lore/story and everything like that and in the beginning there was a better one since we have moved to the snow land and stuff everybody just wants bosses
so this is why i want that we go in the hart of the plague in the city in de south forgot the name but you know what i mean and than get the quests for holding waves of undead knowing secrets by going in to the ruins of the city also making like area's with puzzle's and mistery's you have to solve new dungeon and as final boss....

boss

some kind of stupit plot twist or just Gaia

but do focus more on quests puzzles and random epic mini bosses and a new feature called:
Guilds

now every class has is own guild wich might be in the soul vault and thats where you can do guild quests to get some cool reward like gear,
runes(something new that you can use to make special gadgets like:summon some minions,make a super explosion,special potions... that you can use in your slot 6)




and one more thing make casimir a merc pls
actually i think i am gonna change my map into something like that

 

[Zwiebelchen]

so i wanna share something but i know that you all ignore me but
Gaias is a game that i really love at low lvl when there is a goal going to max lvl and exploring new area's and get gear....
when i was max lvl i knew there will come updates and there will be new gear new area's... but i never had the real GOAL FEELING again
my suggestion:
i love the cinamtic and the lore/story and everything like that and in the beginning there was a better one since we have moved to the snow land and stuff everybody just wants bosses
so this is why i want that we go in the hart of the plague in the city in de south forgot the name but you know what i mean and than get the quests for holding waves of undead knowing secrets by going in to the ruins of the city also making like area's with puzzle's and mistery's you have to solve new dungeon and as final boss....

boss

some kind of stupit plot twist or just Gaia

The story for the game is already decided and written-out and will be concluded in Arsaios. So if you are here for the story, you will get your conclusion in the next major content update in D4.
The game will continue with more content after that (I designed the story in a way that allows that), but the overarching plotline will be concluded at this point.

but do focus more on quests puzzles and random epic mini bosses and a new feature called:
Guilds

now every class has is own guild wich might be in the soul vault and thats where you can do guild quests to get some cool reward like gear,
runes(something new that you can use to make special gadgets like:summon some minions,make a super explosion,special potions... that you can use in your slot 6)

Puzzles will never be a thing because puzzles have the tendency to suck in multiplayer games.
Also, class-specific quests will most likely not be a thing again because they tend to be a lot of work to make for a very little return of investment. I'd rather have more normal quests than class specific quests.

and one more thing make casimir a merc pls
actually i think i am gonna change my map into something like that

Casimir is too similar to Vale. Also, it makes no sense for him to become a mercenary. He is a blacksmith apprentice, not an adventurer. But all power to you making a map that you enjoy.

 

[sluk]

ok i understand sad :-( i need 1.2 D
but one more thing what is that limit? i dont have it

 

[Jumbo]

Zwieb this is a great decision. Finally you can do the obvious thing and conclude D4 and the main story, but furthermore you can beautify the game beyond recognition if you want to. Mytargas can finally use the HD textures and so can the trees and everything else. Amazing! Cannot wait!

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Or you could do this;

Click Me!

• Untitled Trigger 001
  • Events
  • Player - Player 1 (Red) skips a cinematic sequence
  • Conditions
  • Actions
  • Set p = (Triggering player)
  • Set ut1 = Peasant
  • Set ut1_Copy = Peasant
  • Set ut1_Copy_2 = ut1
  • Custom script: if GetLocalPlayer() == udg_p then
  • Set ut1_Copy_2 = ut1_Copy
  • Custom script: endif
  • Unit - Create 1 ut1_Copy_2 for Player 1 (Red) at (Player 1 (Red) start location) facing Default building facing degrees

 

[Zwiebelchen]

1.2C(9) just got it's release.
Enjoy!

 

[LeP]

RE: mapsize

Are you aware of my two tools? BLPaletter Updates and MPQ Compressor

You might've already used them. But i did a quick test on your war3map.j and got it reduced by another 17600 bytes. I couldn't test it on your whole map as i don't have a complete listfile, so this is why i don't know if you already apply my tool.

e: also if i may say so: your .j is far from minimal.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I didn't use MPQ compressor, but I do use BLPaletter occasionally where it makes sense.

Unfortunately, 17600 bytes is more or less a drop on the proverbial hot stone in this case. It might help me sneaking some more code in, but I won't be able to import any new art assets with that.

 

[TriggerHappy]

I still think Blizzard is going to eventually increase the file size limit. But, if you're insistent on forcing users to download something, why not go all the way with SharpCraft, or something like it?

At the very least you could get rid of save codes, if you haven't already.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

That's why I am going this route... as soon as blizz patches the game I can drop the bypasser requirement and we are back to normal. Thats also why I don't want Sharpcraft.

 

[Manipulation]

how much is going to be the size limit when the patch comes out?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

How am I supposed to know? I don't work for blizzard.

 

[Manipulation]

......

 

[LeP]

Granted, war3map.j is one of the better compressable files but you can expect some size reduction in most of the files in your w3x.
Maybe these savings would be enough to get you to the next patch
Tbh i woud love to test it myself but i lack the listfile.
Btw. are you sure that you have no unused imports? ladiks name scanner couldn't find all used names.
Not that this is something definitive, but better be sure.

I also have some unpolished tools/ideas to further reduce the size of war3map.j

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Or you could do this;

Click Me!

• Untitled Trigger 001
  • Events
  • Player - Player 1 (Red) skips a cinematic sequence
  • Conditions
  • Actions
  • Set p = (Triggering player)
  • Set ut1 = Peasant
  • Set ut1_Copy = Peasant
  • Set ut1_Copy_2 = ut1
  • Custom script: if GetLocalPlayer() == udg_p then
  • Set ut1_Copy_2 = ut1_Copy
  • Custom script: endif
  • Unit - Create 1 ut1_Copy_2 for Player 1 (Red) at (Player 1 (Red) start location) facing Default building facing degrees

You'd save lots of map file space by making all custom visuals local-files while still letting people who refuse to use the best method ever since WC3 came out play with WC3 visuals.

Edit: Just got to make a global default combined with a CSS or a extra custom unit copy of each custom modeled unit with only model path changed.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I still have my trust in blizzard that they will eventually come up with the size expansion patch. That's why I personally don't mind using a 3rd party tool for now: it's just a temporary measure.

And yes, there might be ways to compress the map even harder... but the thing is: I am so sick of over-optimizing at this point. I want to be able to enjoy freedom of design again. And I can not achieve that freedom by limiting me - again - to this arbitrary limit just because I managed to squeeze 20 more kilobytes in (that is - mind you - barely the size of a single new armor texture).

 

[Raymond@Gaias]

Hello folks; sorry for my absence, but I had been hit with a hard work schedule over the last weeks and only visited the Discord channel briefly to give some minor updates.
As many people don't have Discord, I see how this is a bad thing and will try to post more progress updates in the forums again for you interested people to catch up.


As you guys noticed, I have been trying hard to push out new content within the limits of what is possible in the few amounts of kilobytes I still have left before I will hit the magic 8 MB map size limit. But there is only so much I can do from here on.
After all, even simple JASS code takes up significant map space at some point (after all, each typed letter equals 1 byte) and I reached a huge roadblock at which I don't even have the means to add new abilities or skills before tipping the game over the limit.


But I also don't want to wait for Blizzard patches any further, because I feel it might take ages for them to fulfill their promises. And I'm starting to have more and more doubts that it will happen at all.


So over the next days, I will try to release the final iteration of "Bnet-ready" 1.2C, which will have all the currently known bugs and issues fixed, aswell as fixing some problems in Blackfire Deep.
After that, I will drop support for the current variant of the map and will continue with content creation, releasing a size-updated version containing new items (especially for Blackfire Deep), new abilities, new mounts and updated (environment and hero) textures.

This new unofficial "Gold" version will require the use of Warcraft III bypass map file size limit. [ver.6] to play and will be my new developement build until Blizzard patches the game again. At this point, we will hopefully get the map size limit increased so that the Gold version can become the new official.
I really hate to split the community here, but there is no way around that for the time being.

"Gold" version updates will be posted as a seperate map thread, so that both versions do not get confused with each other. I also hope that we will be able to host both versions of the map via the host bot simultanously, so that people that don't want to install the 3rd party tool I linked above will still be able to play 1.2C(9) normally.

So, the version 1.2C(9) is the final for the 1.2C.
And in the next new version all will be renew? Do we need to play restart from Lv.1?
Where can I download the new "Gold" version? Still on the HIVE download page?
Sorry for these questions, I haven't Discord to know any update or progress.
I am looking forward to the arrival of the new version.

 

[Ira]

i dont think the load system will change and if it does zwieb ususally includes a way to convert your loads so you can keep your characters

 

[Zwiebelchen]

The "Gold" version will be just like a regular map update for Gaias; no content will be removed or altered.
I just name it differently as it requires the map limit bypasser tool, so that the community knows what is up with that.

 

[oger-lord]

Do you limit the Gold Edition to 16MB until Blizzard releases new information about the patch?
I mean we dont know weather Blizzard is removing the size limit or just increase it.
But I guess it takes some time to reach 16MB even when you replace some textures with a high res version.

 

[zapper19]

flamebringer still shit and its gonna stay that way

 

[SHBlade]

Yea zapper, additional 2xap skill is bad af xD

 

[zapper19]

Yea zapper, additional 2xap skill is bad af xD

I'm only getting 1 extra hit using that skill plus the stats given by flamebringer is still the same or weaker than executioners axe. So i farm for this wep and this is the only benefit I get. Rofl great reward of farming for this shit wep

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Nobody forced you to farm for Flamebringer. Nobody said it would be worth it to do so. You decided to do it all on your own.

 

[zapper19]

Nobody forced you to farm for Flamebringer. Nobody said it would be worth it to do so. You decided to do it all on your own.

So there u go wasted my time and effort for a shitty ass wep. Its no surprised that bag...... I'm not going to continue with that. First rpg to have this kind of legendary wep to be bad. A rare item that only increases dps slightly and would not impact the speed of killing bosses. Wp zwieb just wp

 

[FanOf.Anonymous]

So there u go wasted my time and effort for a shitty ass wep. Its no surprised that bag...... I'm not going to continue with that. First rpg to have this kind of legendary wep to be bad. A rare item that only increases dps slightly and would not impact the speed of killing bosses. Wp zwieb just wp

One word to discribe you, which doesn't suit a setting for Gaias which is an Open "RP" Game.

cynical

 

[zapper19]

One word to discribe you, which doesn't suit a setting for Gaias which is an Open "RP" Game.

cynical

One word to discribe you, which doesn't suit a setting for Gaias which is an Open "RP" Game.

cynical

Op siding with "him" to say q

One word to discribe you, which doesn't suit a setting for Gaias which is an Open "RP" Game.

cynical

To say the least u and kam are siding with "him" or atleast defenending him. I have enjoyed WOW why? I keep playing mainly because of how happy I am when getting new gear and atleast the raid boss gear or whatever u call them arent shit.
Also note that when I farm fb its the era where bag item are locked to ur character

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Ofcourse I'm siding with Zwieb, because I agree with the concept that legendaries should be unique and difficult to obtain but not necessarily much better stats than comparable blues. This is not a copy of WoW, there's no reason it should be the same in any way.

The era of unlocked bag items? You mean every version up until 2 days ago? That' how everyone did it.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

According to Flamebringer vs Executioner's Axe, flamebringer is slightly better in terms of DPS than Executioners axe. Which is fine to me. I don't want Legendaries to totally invaluate regular items.

I want people who don't enjoy grinding to be competitive with the hardcore players.

That's also why the collectible feature will only grant minor bonuses, as I don't want to force people to run Blackfire to stay competitive. I want the core game to be enjoyable regardless of extra features I add for longevity.

 

[0.mY.g0d]

The grinding factor completely went out of control compared to foothills...due to double RNG (bags) and increased item pool (Psion/Hexblade),
collecting good items has become totally frustrating. And i am talking of BLUE items, not Legs. 3 hours without any bag dropped or 30 hours
without one helmet of the bull does only one thing...s***. Then it helps nothing if i find 5 Blooming Vambraces along the way. So this promotes
frustration...and solo grinding for days and days - killing team games. But of course you can say like it or leave it.

Once Legendaries had some aura of sth. "magic" especially when dropped from a "feared" boss like Firelord. It was sth special. Nowadays
they are degenerated into a reward based on brainless mass grinding recipes. Not talking about the Leg inflation.

So all in all no wonder that the bots stay empty.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Zharo is harder than Firelord ever was. And some of the legendary materials only drop from him! What exactly is your point here? That legendaries should just drop of at a super low percentage? How would that change the grind in any way?


People glorify 1.1 as if it was the golden age of Gaias. That's fucking stupid. People went to D3, farmed their items and that's it. Mission fucking acomplished. How would it have a negative effect on bot games to add stuff to do to the game beyond grinding your blue gear?


And according to Google trends, the popularity of Gaias has been stable since 2013, of course, with regular spikes whenever I released a new content update.
And even the drop in popularity after 2013 correlates perfectly with the decline of public interest in Warcraft 3 in general. In fact, Gaias is actually more stable in user numbers than Warcraft III in general.


So, no. Lobbies are not empty. Not more or less empty than they were before. It's warcraft that is empty in general.

 

[Jumbo]

Gaias did change it's scope after Foothills. This is completely expectable and even necessary. Whitepine is not a levelling area like the earlier zones. It is a lvling area and, more importantly, a high lvl area. This means that progress needs to be restricted by gear progress since we no longer have lvls to advance. If Zwieb had made every item drop from bosses in Whitepine, everyone would be maxed with every class after 1 week and impatiently complaining about how long it takes for the next version. I agree it is painful to farm for items like bull's helmet, but then again, you aren't necessaily weak without it - just not BiS. Also, with the newest release we received a nice improvement - shareable whitepine bag content. I think the design is more or less flawless now, though it feels frustrating at times - for the individual player.

Finally, I can't stress enough how important it is to remember that the real endgame hasn't even been added yet. Once D4 is out people will just laugh at anyone farming for Whitepine blues.

For me this is also why I don't play a lot anymore. I like to play the new content etc. but I like to have fun, not repeating the same farming over and over. If you think Whitepine is frustrating, just wait for the Gold released. I know Zwieb will make this game a lot greater than it already is. Not only new areas, but also new spells, finally making different builds possible and making each character feel unique to the player who specs them.

 

[zapper19]

Ofcourse I'm siding with Zwieb, because I agree with the concept that legendaries should be unique and difficult to obtain but not necessarily much better stats than comparable blues. This is not a copy of WoW, there's no reason it should be the same in any way.

The era of unlocked bag items? You mean every version up until 2 days ago? That' how everyone did it.

ofcourse it is a understatement even if zwieb is wrong u still side with him but thats besides the point. oh so theres this good item and it only looks pretty oh but it is good? nah fuck you its just a littttttttttttttttttttle bit better.

 

[zapper19]

According to Flamebringer vs Executioner's Axe, flamebringer is slightly better in terms of DPS than Executioners axe. Which is fine to me. I don't want Legendaries to totally invaluate regular items.

I want people who don't enjoy grinding to be competitive with the hardcore players.

That's also why the collectible feature will only grant minor bonuses, as I don't want to force people to run Blackfire to stay competitive. I want the core game to be enjoyable regardless of extra features I add for longevity.

tldr : i added this so that top tier players can have pretty items and a slight advantage

 

[Zwiebelchen]

tldr : i added this so that top tier players can have pretty items and a slight advantage

Welcome to the world of MMOs.

 

[AzraelTheSorrow]

So, my friends and are are brand new to Gaia's and we're loving it. Finding out that there's a bigger and better "Gold" version is quite amazing and we'd love to play it. But um, how do we get it? And how does one use this map size bypass tool; I'm a bit confused on that, too.

 

[Jumbo]

Gold isn't out yet. I'm sure Zwiebelchen will post about it when a release is ready.

 

[AzraelTheSorrow]

Gold isn't out yet. I'm sure Zwiebelchen will post about it when a release is ready.

Oooohhh, that would explain my confusion on as to where to find it. I must have misread something because I thought he meant it was out already. Thanks!

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Oooohhh, that would explain my confusion on as to where to find it. I must have misread something because I thought he meant it was out already. Thanks!

Well, it's out now. Gaias Retaliation Enhanced: v1.2C (11) - Download here

 

[AzraelTheSorrow]

Well, it's out now. Gaias Retaliation Enhanced: v1.2C (11) - Download here

Well, that is certainly some timing.

 

[Bleach_of_pain]

how do you host that map cause everytime i try to host it everyone has to download it eaven if they have the map and it stops downloading at 21 % :/

 

[Zwiebelchen]

have you tried renaming the forcefixsizelimit file to forcefixsizelimit.dll?