(1) Project Y4: A Total Conversion

[Rao Dao Zao]

Hay guiz, im still werkin on dis.

So I've been doing pretty much shit all at work, so I've finally managed to think my way out of the dead end the node hacking mini-game was previously inhabiting.

The main objective, having to collect all the missing encryptions keys, remains. Additional hazards are generic enemies that attack you as normal. When your avatar dies, it is not the end, but you will be teleported back to the start point of the maze -- since you're under time pressure, this could be tough.

To aid you in your battles, there will be a choice of three maze avatars (more Assault Rigs ripping): Speed, Hybrid and Power. Speed is fast but weak, power is slow but strong, hybrid is mid-range.

The balance here is that, while the Speed tank is weak, it can get around the maze a lot faster; whereas Power will die less but will take longer. I'm hoping to parameterise the mazes enough (in terms of enemy and gem spawn rate, and hopefully maze branch rate) that each of the tanks may be useful for different hacking situations.

Might also make you have to unlock the Speed and Power tanks before you can use them, perhaps opportunities for some side questing here (or another element to collect inside the first few node hacks).

Still need to add a lot of background props to the mazes too. The big magenta wheels are just the beginning.

Otherwise, lots of behind-the-scenes triggerwork and stuff going on that isn't very showable. Though I've settled on designs for the final boss's situation, his actual design has just gone through the wringer again so he's back to square one.

As an aside: all keypad codes are now randomly generated at map init. No surfing ahead for you during replays.

 

[Tleno]

Hmmm, you could like aquire some speed and power tank data after a first training-ish maze. Or at some moment during game, not exactly at side mission.

What you've done looks really, really immpresive. And I just love the Tronish look of the mazes.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

OMG that is just beautiful. What's the file size so far?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

OMG that is just beautiful. What's the file size so far?

8.63MB, and still growing. Though I did manage to pull it down a smidge by condensing a lot of models with text into a single font-sheet (rather than individual textures).

It will be a lot bigger in the end. There is currently no music, no voice acting, and not a lot of sound. It shouldn't be prohibitively large, though -- but I'm not going to go shooting my mouth off about target sizes right now because there is still a lot of room for expansion.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Heh I could expect a lot, it's surprising that such a great map has barely exceeded the size limit.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Heh I could expect a lot, it's surprising that such a great map has barely exceeded the size limit.

In the import manager, the total is closer to 16MB. My judicious use of snap-to-grid means that my models compress very well (this pretty much what Guesst's Squisher does). Combine that with a low texture count...

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

And here's something else some of you may find amusing:

The All-Purpose Siege Mech.

One of the planned bonus missions is going to be a defence/survival -- but I thought that the AP-AM is a little too light and mobile for that kind of scenario. So I got to thinking...

"What would happen if the AP-AM was based on the Alpha chassis rather than the Delta?"

This is the result. Its main attack is provided by the three rifles on the nose, the twelve-cannon barrage will be a castable ability, artillery shell mods will fit as normal.

I'm swithering over whether to put undercarriage mods as backpacks in the top slot, or add a big scorpion-style arm to put blades on for the main atttack (then replace the rifles with three EMP guns?). The main issue is that undercarriage mods can't go on the undercarriage due to the third leg (dohoho).

So the scenario will take place after the events of the main game, when the AP-SM is undergoing its own live-fire tests.

 

[Tleno]

Awesome firepower!
Will we get to use in only on that mission, or will we be able to get it sometime later?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Awesome firepower!
Will we get to use in only on that mission, or will we be able to get it sometime later?

It is so far for only a single bonus mission. It may make it into two bonus missions if the map feels that way, but this is doubtful.

 

[Gausslander]

I don't get it, this will take place after the actual game?

In that case, *spoiler* you live *spoiler*.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

I don't get it, this will take place after the actual game?

In that case, *spoiler* you live *spoiler*.

No spoilers, son!

The bonus missions are unrelated to the main game. They take place chronologically after the main game, but concern different characters. Obviously the player is going to remain a vaguely faceless mech pilot in each, but such similarities aside, none of the characters are recurring (except possibly the voice of operations central, your handler during the game).

Don't worry, I will not be the spoiler.

 

[Nasrudin]

From your posts I gather you're not intrested in showing any trace of human presence. Why is that?
It is much harder for the player to identify himself with a lifeless robot, as cool as customizable it might be, than an actual hero or antihero with his own personality.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

From your posts I gather you're not intrested in showing any trace of human presence. Why is that?
It is much harder for the player to identify himself with a lifeless robot, as cool as customizable it might be, than an actual hero or antihero with his own personality.

There are actually plenty of human presences, simply no visual human presences.

The mech pilot you control has a personality. Your mission handler, the voice of Operations Central, has a personality. All the facility staff that wrote e-mails and left diary transcripts have personalities. There is evidence of human presence absolutely everywhere (assuming you choose to look for it).

The AP-AM is lifeless, yes, but it is a lifeless shell. You can identify (or not) with the mech pilot as much as you want. He does exist, though his major character trait is only really a tendancy towards insubordination (which then allows any of the side quest choices to be viable and can feed gently into some of the epilogue).

But I always intended to lean towards the silent protagonist with this project anyway. Though choice is not a big issue, I spent plenty of time having Henrik as a real character in When the Freedom Slips Away and This Wreckage that I would like to try something different this time -- whether it will work out or not is up for grabs. At the beginning I intended for the protagonist to be one-hundred percent silent, á la Zelda, but this approach doesn't really suit my style, so he now has a little bit of dialogue to help railroad the story.

There is also the issue of scale. These are big robots, big tanks -- there is just no place for humans against machines of this size. In combat, they would be flattened instantly, even by the weakest weapons on offer (and for any of the facility staff daft enough to raise their heads, this is indeed the case). I can't make a convincing escort mission where a single hit ends the game; much as it would tally with the gritty realism, it's not a viable gameplay mechanic.

TL;DR I can't model people.

 

[Gausslander]

This is shaping up to be something for all of us to admire, I can assure you.

To make your protagonist a bit more human, might I suggest making his portrait that of his pilot in his cockpit? A bit much, maybe, but it still gets the job done.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

This is shaping up to be something for all of us to admire, I can assure you.

To make your protagonist a bit more human, might I suggest making his portrait that of his pilot in his cockpit? A bit much, maybe, but it still gets the job done.

I have probably said before, though it no doubt gets lost in the mire of more exciting updates every time, that the blank static portrait is a placeholder.

For what, I'm not entirely sure yet. So far, I have seen no reason not to continue with the original plan to sub-contract (nearer the end of the development cycle, naturally) a proper 2D artist to draw some static face pictures to go behind the... static.

I was thinking of some way I could possibly be able to allow you to select a portrait -- using all pictures in one model and then applying "alternate"/etc tags to swap between them. However, I'm not entirely sure how many animation modifier tags actually filter down to the portrait so this would require some testing. The last time I tried something like that I seem to remember that a lot of them didn't.

I also intend to roll out the static to all protraits (i.e. the drones, where a solid shot of the generic sensor suite is appropriate), so everything is consistent. But that's donkey-work for when all the models are final.

 

[Nasrudin]

no visual human presences

Uhm, not even for cutscenes? Mission briefings, characters introdution, important events? I can help with the modeling and animating part if you wish. Shouldn't be too hard to get together enough material.

Thought something tells me to expect a reply along the line of "I work solo", or some nonsense like that.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Uhm, not even for cutscenes? Mission briefings, characters introdution, important events?

The humans are implicit: they are up in the command ship, they are in the mechs, they are hidden in buildings, whatever. I do not believe they need to be visible during cutscenes for the story to unfold successfully.

 

[Tleno]

Well that's logical, I mean the planet doesn't seem to have an atmosphere where people can breathe, so staying in large vehicles where there is air and such sounds like a great idea to me.

 

[Nasrudin]

The humans are implicit: they are up in the command ship, they are in the mechs, they are hidden in buildings, whatever. I do not believe they need to be visible during cutscenes for the story to unfold successfully.

And I'm just saying I think that removes a lot of atmosphere and immersion factor - imagine Deus Ex without cutscenes and all interaction with npcs handled via radio messages and email.
It's all about giving depth not only to the story, but to the fictional universe in wich the events are happening, too. Even little details like an animated portrait of the pilot, as suggested by Gausslander, will have a considerable impact in the long run.

Though this is your mod, and I can't certainly tell you what to do with it. If you change idea, my offer is still valid. I'll be around for another month before going to ibernation again.

 

[Gausslander]

Bioshock, despite being human yourself, had very little human interaction and had it all over radio and notes and it worked out just fine.

 

[Owenalacaster]

Half-Life 1, Half-Life 2, Portal 1, Portal 2, Mother series, Legend of Zelda series (for the most part), Chrono Trigger, et cetera, they are all plenty immersive or whatever. I mean, it's not like we ever forget we are playing a game, so the argument is meaningless to me.

Is it personable and intimate, like a friend or a lover? Probably not, but then I wouldn't expect it to be. The silent protagonist and a little dialogue are the set up for the gameplay, the story is in the action, not the words. Words are frail and flacid, actions demonstrate character and kick ass along the way.

Besides, what better way to symbolize the dehumanizing, alienating consequences of technology and war than to obscure humanity and relegate it to working behind the scenes?

 

[Gausslander]

Besides, what better way to symbolize the dehumanizing, alienating consequences of technology and war than to obscure humanity and relegate it to working behind the scenes?

That's a brilliant statement.

The only way I could see humans playing a part in the storyline is in the form of floating minds in jars, really. I mean, since everything is done with machine what's the point of actual human beings to begin with?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

And I'm just saying I think that removes a lot of atmosphere and immersion factor - imagine Deus Ex without cutscenes and all interaction with npcs handled via radio messages and email.

Imagine any Legend of Zelda game where Link talked back. Would it be better or worse? No -- it would be different.

It's all about giving depth not only to the story, but to the fictional universe in wich the events are happening, too. Even little details like an animated portrait of the pilot, as suggested by Gausslander, will have a considerable impact in the long run.

I completely disagree with you. Unreal demonstrates admirably how an entire world, atmospheric and immersive, can be created without a single piece of dialogue, and with a completely faceless and silent protagonist.

I resent your implication that having a silent protagonist and abstracting away the human element is some kind of failure. It's a different approach, perhaps one less to your personal taste, but no more or less valid.

The only way I could see humans playing a part in the storyline is in the form of floating minds in jars, really. I mean, since everything is done with machine what's the point of actual human beings to begin with?

That's the thing -- the world of Project Y4, Faciity EY43, is not built on a human scale. It never was. I never intended it to be. Humans are the reason for everything, the people behind and controlling everything (or so they think), but in the raw there is no place for them.

 

[Nasrudin]

I resent your implication that having a silent protagonist and abstracting away the human element is some kind of failure. It's a different approach, perhaps one less to your personal taste, but no more or less valid.

I don't remember writing or hinting that the only valid approach is mine and you were wrong. The reason I posted was not to troll your thread, but to voice a personal opinion, according to wich this particular aspect of the project could be improved.
To clarify, I'm not too bothered about the main character being silent, that is not the main point. My main concern is that seeing only machines all game long and not even a single living being - let alone the characters I'm supposed to interact with - will eventually make me totally disinterested in the actual story and only focus on the gameplay.

Yes, leaving an important part of the background to imagination can work, and yes, in some cases can be an unusually creative approach. On the other hand, leaving too much to imagination can make the game feel plain and incomplete.

Whether or not this is the case I can't tell for sure, fair enough; my first impression was that you're walking on thin ice though, and I tought it was worth to bring it to attention.


In the end, it's only speculation until I try the game; but hey, sounds like you got everything covered, so I'm going to stop here, wish you good luck, and wait for the relase.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I, for one don't mind about that feature, it seems rather interesting though, never seen before in any Warcraft III game, so I support it

 

[Tleno]

I actually like that there are no people in entire game. I mean, this plus the graphical style makes the game look more digital, you know, like Tron. Kinda makes game more centered around mechs, which are the main aspect of this game.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

That's pretty true, the AI talking feature would complement it as well

 

[Tleno]

You mean, replacing the voice of that guy who gives you objective with computerish voice, or what? Kinda unclear...

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Yep that too lol.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

You mean, replacing the voice of that guy who gives you objective with computerish voice, or what? Kinda unclear...

Unfortanately, at the time of Project Y4 (human) artificially intelligence systems are somewhat under-developed. Since the mission is very fluid, a human operator has to be the one in charge. There is plenty of AI research and development going, but no AIs are in use anywhere.

I currently do have a couple of computer-voice messages, confirmation and status report type things, but they are few enough that I may be better scrapping them in favour of quips from Operations.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Who will be the one talking in those voice messages? Or were the two that you found already pre-made by somebody else?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Who will be the one talking in those voice messages? Or were the two that you found already pre-made by somebody else?

There are no voices at all yet, there is only dialogue.

Once all dialogue is final, I will begin trying to find voice actors.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Haha, okay then, I guess I could wait slightly longer for it

 

[Orcnet]

One "words" - beautiful

 

[Tleno]

Hey, I kinda got curious RDZ, but what's the... erm.. geography of the planet where action takes place... well, I mean, could you tell more about the factory and it's surroundings?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

One "words" - beautiful

Hey, I kinda got curious RDZ, but what's the... erm.. geography of the planet where action takes place... well, I mean, could you tell more about the factory and it's surroundings?

The action takes place on a small, as-yet unnamed, rocky moon closely orbiting the gas giant Zeus. This is the pretty much the furthest human civilisation has got from Earth -- beyond even the asteroid belt, where corporations like RDZ Industries first cut their teeth manufacturing deep space mining equipment.

This is why there are a lot of research and development projects at Facility EY43 alongside its mining operations -- it's far away from prying eyes.

The facility itself is built inside a large crater, with numerous small out-buildings between the facility's defensive wall and the crater wall.

The area is very geologically active -- lava flows everywhere. However, the abundance of valuable energy crystal "taschari" and precious metal ores makes it well worth the danger of building a facility in such a hostile place.

The moon has less active areas, such as its polar caps, which are covered with water ice and snow. The moon also has a very small debris ring, which hosts a few smaller mining operations.

Other corporations have bases on the moon, but Facility EY43 is sitting on the biggest taschari deposit by a long shot. This far out, skirmishes between corporation security forces are more common than near Earth -- the same emptiness that lets Facility EY43 deal with secret projects lets less savoury people get away with almost anything. Small pirate gangs using old spaceships and cheap mechs are also present, but none are equipped to directly take on any of the corporations.

It's only when Facility EY43 is weakened by the hijacking that some of the other corporations think they might have a chance of breaking in and getting their hands on any of RDZ Industries' trade secrets, and these attempts will form the basis for several side quests.

 

[Tleno]

The action takes place on a small, as-yet unnamed, rocky moon closely orbiting the gas giant Zeus. This is the pretty much the furthest human civilisation has got from Earth -- beyond even the asteroid belt, where corporations like RDZ Industries first cut their teeth manufacturing deep space mining equipment.

This is why there are a lot of research and development projects at Facility EY43 alongside its mining operations -- it's far away from prying eyes.

The facility itself is built inside a large crater, with numerous small out-buildings between the facility's defensive wall and the crater wall.

The area is very geologically active -- lava flows everywhere. However, the abundance of valuable energy crystal "taschari" and precious metal ores makes it well worth the danger of building a facility in such a hostile place.

The moon has less active areas, such as its polar caps, which are covered with water ice and snow. The moon also has a very small debris ring, which hosts a few smaller mining operations.

Other corporations have bases on the moon, but Facility EY43 is sitting on the biggest taschari deposit by a long shot. This far out, skirmishes between corporation security forces are more common than near Earth -- the same emptiness that lets Facility EY43 deal with secret projects lets less savoury people get away with almost anything. Small pirate gangs using old spaceships and cheap mechs are also present, but none are equipped to directly take on any of the corporations.

It's only when Facility EY43 is weakened by the hijacking that some of the other corporations think they might have a chance of breaking in and getting their hands on any of RDZ Industries' trade secrets, and these attempts will form the basis for several side quests.

That's worth both Oscar and Nobel peace prize.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Speaking of pirate gangs, I have been working on a minor corporation's medium-weight Delta-equivalent the "Glabrezu".

It's called Glabrezu because it's supposed to have over-arms inspired by design of the D&D monster of the same name, but they are so far refusing to work out as well in practice as they do on paper. So you'll have to make do with this half-built image.

The pirate gang that assault you in one of the bonus missions will be using these Glabrezu mechs, along with some other miscellaneous models like older RDZ Industries designs -- basically, any old, battered, cheap mechs they can get their dirty criminal black-market hands on.

 

[Gausslander]

Perhaps the glass should be dusty/shattered in places to make it appear more rugged?

And it just ain't a pirate mech without some graffiti on the chassis, perhaps a skull and crossbones or some shark teeth? I just don't see pirate when I look at that.

 

[Deolrin]

Shark teeth like the SC2 Goliath on the front would be amazing.

 

[Gausslander]

Shark teeth like the SC2 Goliath on the front would be amazing.

(fun fact: the goliath is the only unit in Starcraft 2 with random skin generation)

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Perhaps the glass should be dusty/shattered in places to make it appear more rugged?

I suppose it would be prudent to apply some of the blast marks from the wreckage texture version. This is just straight brown camo right now.

And it just ain't a pirate mech without some graffiti on the chassis, perhaps a skull and crossbones or some shark teeth? I just don't see pirate when I look at that.

Have I gone through how I generate textures yet? Repeatable segments make real graffiti not practical. However, there is the design tile, which is mapped to the front roof of the cabin; but I haven't decided on a gang logo for there yet.

 

[Tleno]

(fun fact: the goliath is the only unit in Starcraft 2 with random skin generation)

Erm, infested civilians, cruisers (Not battlecruisers, but those cars you see on Mar Sara) and colonists. Those have random skins, too.

Hmm, since pirates have outdated mechs and weaker weapontry thy buy from black markets, ill they use some tactics to compensate their weaknesses? Like will they use some illegal equipment from black market (Some traps that jam your mech, for example), or maybe they try to ambush you with their surprise tactics? I mean, it would be booring if they would just mass their mechs.

 

[Deolrin]

Or if they just sent their pilots on suicide missions, with 2-3 weak mechs that you can blow up in a single hit for free money.

I agree with tleno, 'guerrilla tactics' for the pirates and such would be pretty awesome. ^^

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Hmm, since pirates have outdated mechs and weaker weapontry thy buy from black markets, ill they use some tactics to compensate their weaknesses? Like will they use some illegal equipment from black market (Some traps that jam your mech, for example), or maybe they try to ambush you with their surprise tactics? I mean, it would be booring if they would just mass their mechs.

The kind of illegal equipment that would best legitimately armed and armoured mechs would still be expensive. These aren't the lowest on the pirate ladder, they're operating out in the arse end of nowhere preying on reasonably large shipments, but they're not infinite-money crime lords either.

I have previously considered a mine-laying mech, so this may fit better as a pirate unit than as an RDZ Industries drone. I've also got some ideas for giving the Glabrezu modular backpacks, including jump-jets to enable ambushes out of nowhere. I'll need to work more on the model to see how this pans out.

 

[Tleno]

What about playing dead? You know, the mech imitates it's dead, and when you come closer it stands up and strikes you!
Or some kind of light missile swarm barrage that doesn't deal much damage, but the explosive shower "stuns" the mech.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

What about playing dead? You know, the mech imitates it's dead, and when you come closer it stands up and strikes you!

Unfortunately, WC3 is absolutely shite at making units imitate decorations. I'm not sure this would be practical -- you'd just see it not being a doodad and know instantly it was a trap.

Or some kind of light missile swarm barrage that doesn't deal much damage, but the explosive shower "stuns" the mech.

There is already plenty of EMP in the game, but I want to avoid using too much of it as an anti-player mechanism. Remember that the focus is on a single hero -- if that single hero is stunned, you are completely powerless to do anything. Anything that robs the player of his ability to do anything must be used exceptionally sparingly.

EMP exists in the game in the form of Delta Electronic Warfare platforms, who have a slow, short-duration EMP attack of a similar calibre to the (initial state of the) AP-AM's front EMP cannon.

I suppose it depends on how I choose to implment pirates. Will they have huge supplies of cannon fodder? Will they be tight, limited gangs of ambushers? These things are not defined yet.

 

[Deolrin]

Use the Locust ability, freeze the unit in some wrecked\morph animation and when you come near, remove Locust and make it morph back to life. That's my best bet, at least. Make sure you put it near lots of REAL wrecks and dysfunctional mechs, for an even greater surprise element and camouflage.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Hehe, if there was a Facebook page about this map I'd definitely promote it.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Hehe, if there was a Facebook page about this map I'd definitely promote it.

Is a ModDB profile not good enough for you?