(1) Project Y4: A Total Conversion

[Rao Dao Zao]

That's the point.It would explain death and respawn realisticaly but the task itself is meaningless and boring.The tow truck will still have reasonable speed to not frustrate the player to the point of reloading or quiting.

I suppose at the end of the day, I have to strike a balance between explaining things meaningfully and making the game work. I think adding a segment like this would upset that balance too much; it's easier to suspend disbelief (the "lol respawners on a battlefield" of UT3, for example) than to grind through seemingly unnecessary extras.

I like the idea of having to use save function only when you're done playing kind of like Torchlight or Diablo and not as a tool to counter game over or an abuse to respawn in a boss fight where he's 50% done.

Unfortunately with Warcraft, it's an impossible dream to mess with saving; since I'm never going to game-cache the entire map and all that happens in it, the fact that saving exists is going to have to be lived with. The hit point/damage dealt ratio is pretty tight and the numbers are low, so raw fights should be fast enough that using a full-map save/load isn't really going to help you in a tight spot. The hit points of bosses will reset on death, too, so you really will have to beat them full on.

But we might just have different opinion on the subject.After all I don't know how often it is likely to die in the game.This suggestion might work if you die rarely.You're the maker so you know better.

Death is currently relatively frequent, but I'm still balancing how may lives you start with/can obtain against how difficult the enemies are. I want it to be a bit of an achievement to last until 128-odd kills without dying, but not something impossible only the most pro-gamers get to. Like Unreal Tournament, really. Getting to Godlike should make you feel good because it's a bit tough, but it shouldn't be impossibly tough like pro-gaming.

Maybe we do have differing opinions, but it's good to talk it out. I want Y4 to be something special and cohesive, not just a thoughtless heap of arbitrary features.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Unfortunately with Warcraft, it's an impossible dream to mess with saving; since I'm never going to game-cache the entire map and all that happens in it, the fact that saving exists is going to have to be lived with. The hit point/damage dealt ratio is pretty tight and the numbers are low, so raw fights should be fast enough that using a full-map save/load isn't really going to help you in a tight spot. The hit points of bosses will reset on death, too, so you really will have to beat them full on.

There is an anti-save system here on THW so it is possible to force saving at certain points

 

[Gausslander]

Will this map use melee time of day?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Blog 434 is all about the tutorial mini-mission and the rationale behind adding it. I also discuss the full-screen computer and keypad stuff a bit.

There is an anti-save system here on THW so it is possible to force saving at certain points

I know how to force anti-save, King Klear did it in Zombie Island. The problem is that it's a collossal kludge -- it's ugly, it's annoying, it's everything I just don't want to do here. As I have said before, I don't like engine fighting.

You can push the game, yes, but it has limits. I like to think I have a good instinct for where to push and where to work with what's there.

Will this map use melee time of day?

Yes and no. Time passes and the light model rotates so it does get brighter and darker, though the light environment has been altered to give it that reddish tinge during the "day" and a very dark grey at night.

However, I have stretched the day so the cycle is a lot slower than in WC3, and the fact of day/night has no effect on anything. I have also smeared the clock out of the interface (though you can still see the time if you mouse-over the area).

 

[Tleno]

You can change the day/night light enviroment? Didn't knew that, and I suppose you can get some pretty awesome results with that...

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

You can change the day/night light enviroment? Didn't knew that, and I suppose you can get some pretty awesome results with that...

call SetDayNightModels( unitlighting, terrainlighting)

I used it in This Wreckage to get absolute darkness. I won't be playing with point-lights this time, though, just using the lighting to make the map a lot darker.

And that's darker as in "the lack of light in space", not darker as in "grimdark".

 

[Tleno]

Well yeah, you don't have to be genious to figure out why is it so dark...

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Will you be able to exit your vehicle?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Will you be able to exit your vehicle?

No. As discussed previously, there just isn't a place for infantry fights. The universe of RDZ Industries is a universe of moderately large robots.

 

[Tleno]

So we won't get to squish people with our robot too?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

So we won't get to squish people with our robot too?

Funny story about trample damage:
Age of Empires II Byzantine unique unit the Cataphract got trample damage as the unique bonus tech in the expansion pack. Because the engine was so bizarre, the smallest range trample damage could occur over was a collossal 3x3 square around the unit.

No, no trampling.

 

[Tleno]

Oh yes, and I was wondering what's going on with those things when I played the AoE II...

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I used it in This Wreckage to get absolute darkness. I won't be playing with point-lights this time, though, just using the lighting to make the map a lot darker.

Just curious, is this sort of lighting effected by light emitting doodads/models?
I had been trying to get that sort of "pitch black" lighting for a map idea a while ago.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Just curious, is this sort of lighting effected by light emitting doodads/models?
I had been trying to get that sort of "pitch black" lighting for a map idea a while ago.

The world is always affected by light-emitting models, they just show up really well when you swap the ambient light models for darkness. You don't even need to make a custom model; just give the above function empty string parameters and you will get base darkness on which you can layer point-lights.

call SetDayNightModels( "", "" )

Be aware that:

• Your lighting setting has to be on highest or half your point lights won't show.
• WC3 can only handle about four lights in close proximity before it starts to break them (nasty straight edges along the lighting cells, you'll find out soon enough).

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

WC3 can only handle about four lights in close proximity before it starts to break them (nasty straight edges along the lighting cells, you'll find out soon enough).

Yeah, I figured that out a while ago messing with lighting.
I just remember I did something to me WE on my last comp that made Dungeon lighting pitch black, and when I reinstalled wc3 on a new comp it was no longer pitch black.

 

[Gausslander]

Light infantry could always be replaced with mechanized infantry... regardless, trampling seems a strange ability to have for a hero which you are going to be constantly in control of...

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Light infantry could always be replaced with mechanized infantry... regardless, trampling seems a strange ability to have for a hero which you are going to be constantly in control of...

There is also absolutely no place for infantry in the plot-line as antagonists. The only place infantry would fit is as resucable civilians, and they're assumed to be riding in trucks or Quattros because as infantry they would die instantly.

Now, I'm in the mood for ORIGINAL THE FEATURE LIST.

• Hero customisation
  • Blades
  • Shields
  • Artillery Shell Mods
  • Undercarriage Mods
  • Paintwork
• Procedurally generated maze hacking mini-game
• Fishing mini-game
• Full-screen keypad
• Full-screen computer interface
• Unlockable bonus content
  • Mini-missions
  • AP-AM paint schemes
• Explosive barrels
• Hot lava

And then the generic shit we take for granted but makes our mod look SOOO COOL. And artificially extends the feature list.

• Equipment restrictions
• Respawning enemies
• Robots everywhere
• Hack 'n' slash action
• Imports
• Some terrain
• A plot
• Occasional cinematics
• Naughty words
• Original the sci-fi setting
• SO MUCH UNIQUE STUFF THAT IS SO UNIQUE I HAVE TO TELL YOU IT'S UNIQUE

Sooo unique.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

No mounts!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[indomitable1319]

I know those dreaded lighting boxes...
I've met them before.
Just recently, actually.

 

[Gausslander]

Wait... by fishing you do mean the crane mini-game, right?

Like, the mech won't be doing the fishing in a lake of some-sort, will it?

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Lol. Who knows, it could

 

[Tleno]

Well yeah, using some crane or whatever could be useful.

Paintwork?! Will there be a camo one?!

Oh, do you have any items/equipment already ready? I mean some stats or names...

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Wait... by fishing you do mean the crane mini-game, right?

Like, the mech won't be doing the fishing in a lake of some-sort, will it?

Haha, yes, the Ultimate Crane Game is my fishing mini-game. Luckily it's not as frustrating as Big's fishing mini-game in Sonic Adventure, though I may need to add more options to spruce it up because right now it's pretty much free loot central.

I suppose I could make a fishing rod undercarriage mod, then make some kind of lava-fish... Maybe not.

Paintwork?! Will there be a camo one?!

There are four paint schemes available initially:

• RDZ Industries unpainted grey
• RDZ Industries unpainted brown
• Urban Dazzle camouflage (seen very often in the screenies, my current favourite)
• Dark Grey Moon camouflage

Unlockable paint-jobs include:

• Red, Green, Blue, White
• HoverCon green

Unlockable paint-jobs will include (when I get round to adding them/their unlock triggers):

• G1 Technology yellow
• Dazzle Ships Dazzle camouflage
• Red Dazzle camouflage
• Dazzle Ships Blue Dazzle camouflage
• Cybrid Corporation Red/Black
• ???

I fully intend to shove in as many of the older camo schemes (as it is trivial to apply the overlay to the current texture layout) from previous incarnations of RDZ Industries as I can. There will be many variations to choose from by the end!

Yes, even the terrifying Pink and Hornet schemes. Both the ugliest and most awesome schemes will be the hardest to unlock.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/TheRoberDozer/bacon17.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/TheRoberDozer/bacon18.jpg

Oh, do you have any items/equipment already ready? I mean some stats or names...

Stats are still nostly down to balancing, but I have many items ready as discussed in Blog 413.

However, to add to that, there are also two new level one weapons: crowbars, that are slower but stronger, and gladii, that are faster but weaker. I intend to make slow/strong and fast/weak weapons for each "level" of weapon
There are also other shields, like the Gravel Pads (slabs of rock) and Concrete Slabs, and colour variations of the standard shields.

There will be many more in the final line-up. I have plans for stronger projector blades, katana-like heavy blades, ultra-projector shields that cover more of the mech with glowing force-fields...

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Are you able to make your own kind of paint scheme?

 

[Callahan]

You might already answered this but how do you swap textures of model ingame?

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Huh?

 

[Tleno]

You might already answered this but how do you swap textures of model ingame?

Indeed, this makes me curious too. I imagine that can be done only with overall team-color texture change if that's even possible, or by making lots of modelseach with different texture...

Wait no Hot Rod flames? that would be awesome...

 

[Deolrin]

It can be done with teamcolor\teamglow, or it can be done with the skin-swapping tool from WC3C.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Are you able to make your own kind of paint scheme?

Alas, no. I suppose I could run a competition or something near release time for the best camouflage overlay, but I think I have all the obviouses bases covered on that count. And pink and purple... what more could you want?

You might already answered this but how do you swap textures of model ingame?

I mentioned it in Blog 410, but not in much technical detail. The instructions on how to achieve texture-swapping were detailed by ToadCop in this thread. You have to watch out because War Club swaps the attack used... I think I ended up giving the AP-AM a dummy normal attack, and its normal one is enabled by the texture-swapping. I didn't directly use his system, by the way, I whipped up my own based on the knowledge he unlocked.

Wait no Hot Rod flames? that would be awesome...

Due to the way I wrap models (i.e. one generic texture layout with a pile of reusable segments) this wouldn't really work. It works with camouflage (especially dazzle) because camouflage relies on mostly random patterns that are chopped up nicely by the use of segments. To do hot rod flames and get them all facing the right way... It's just not convenient.

 

[Gausslander]

I'd rather you stay to military-themed textures anyway.

You never cease to amaze me with your systems, particularly the ones found in the source code you sent me. Thanks a lot, man.

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

I'd rather you stay to military-themed textures anyway.

But life wouldn't be any fun without pink camouflage! Gotta cater for all tastes.

You never cease to amaze me with your systems, particularly the ones found in the source code you sent me. Thanks a lot, man.

And that's why I get the big bucks.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Will the camouflages really make the unit partially 'invisible'?

 

[Tleno]

Well, now when I have read how exactly it's done I can see why you're kinda limited to camoflage and other stuff like that...

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Will the camouflages really make the unit partially 'invisible'?

No. Paintwork makes absolutely no difference to anything except how awesome the AP-AM looks.

Camouflage shields, however, such as dazzle camouflage shields, give enemies a chance to miss their attacks.

 

[Gausslander]

I think it'd be better if the evasion chance was improved or worsened depending on the area you're in.

For instance, if you had yellow camo in a banana forest, you'd have a larger evasion bonus then you normally would.

Make sense?

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Or make it hard to select and attack units who are camouflaged, like, a smaller selection circle?

 

[Deolrin]

Miss_Foxy, Project Y4 is single-player, so your idea doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Don't enemy units have some camouflage too?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Or make it hard to select and attack units who are camouflaged, like, a smaller selection circle?

That'd be a cool idea if you had something like a custom click to shoot attack system, but since the idea here is using the normal wc3 one you could just use attack ground to bypass any benefits that provides (unless you had like a mob boss or something that surrounded itself with tons of smaller moving enemies to distract your attacks, then it could be an interesting mechanism if it's selection circle is smaller).

Though I don't believe selection circle effects the range you can click it to select it, I think even with a tiny selection circle it'd still register model clicks.

 

[Tleno]

Well smaller selection circle doesn't sounds spo awesome, thsi would work rather well with smaller enemies. And camoflaged units should be just harder to notice...

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

I think it'd be better if the evasion chance was improved or worsened depending on the area you're in.

For instance, if you had yellow camo in a banana forest, you'd have a larger evasion bonus then you normally would.

Make sense?

Makes sense, but I would rather have to play with balance in terms of paintwork. I want you to actually pick your favourite colour scheme or change it as the fancy takes you, not home in on the one that gives the best advantage.

Meaningless aesthetic choices, meaningless aesthetic choices everywhere!

There also isn't really much in the way of terrain variation to make something like that particularly worthwhile. You're either outside in the dark grey/dark dark grey moonscape, or you're in the beige/grey facilityscape. The waste annex has some pools of toxic green, the mine is more grey rock, outside the facility has some red/orange lava...

This Wreckage was all green, Y4 is going to be all brown.

Or make it hard to select and attack units who are camouflaged, like, a smaller selection circle?

That'd be a cool idea if you had something like a custom click to shoot attack system, but since the idea here is using the normal wc3 one you could just use attack ground to bypass any benefits that provides (unless you had like a mob boss or something that surrounded itself with tons of smaller moving enemies to distract your attacks, then it could be an interesting mechanism if it's selection circle is smaller).

Though I don't believe selection circle effects the range you can click it to select it, I think even with a tiny selection circle it'd still register model clicks.

Have I mentioned my stance on engine-fighting before? I'm sure I have. I think this would be One Of Those Things That's Probably Pushing Too Hard.

To play with selectability I'd have to do awful things inside models that I would really rather not think about. Enemy camouflaged units having evasion is good enough (and fits with dazzle shields giving you evasion). Hell, evasion even makes perfect sense with dazzle camouflage -- it just confuses the computer image recognition software instead of human eyes. Beautiful.

We can just quietly ignore the fact that the entire rest of your mech can be painted in dazzle and it has no effect. It's like playing UT as Xan and still having the human arm in first-person mode.

 

[Callahan]

Yep to remove selectability and selection circle of a model you must make all geoset unselectable and remove any collision sphere or box.
Your unit will be unselectable, unclickable just like "locust" ability but will still take damage from aoe and auto-aquirable.

 

[Gausslander]

Wow, that sounds like far too much work for a feature that is completely unnecessary and relatively unnoticeable.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I'm really sorry...

 

[Tleno]

I'm really sorry...

Erm nobody is blaming you...
Hey, since your enemies will hae that dazzle thingy too, maybe there will be an equipment that will recognize the armor and will disable enemy camoflage?

 

[Gausslander]

None of that will really effect the gameplay, so none of it is necessary. Even the evasion chance might be going too far--think CoD, the facepaints and gun camos do nothing, that's how it should be in this. You should change your armor for there to be any changes in armor/evasion/critical chance.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Or maybe make the unit have an invisible effect on the minimap and the screen, without it being really invisible? (A bit like those games with cloakings, Halo, etc.)

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Hey, since your enemies will hae that dazzle thingy too, maybe there will be an equipment that will recognize the armor and will disable enemy camoflage?

I'm sure it could be done, but I don't really want to. Giving enemies an advantage and then later nullifying it...

Of course, enhanced image analysis routines that can survive dazzle camouflage would be a very desirable research goal (at least for other corporations), so it might be something worth just hinting at in computer messages.

None of that will really effect the gameplay, so none of it is necessary. Even the evasion chance might be going too far--think CoD, the facepaints and gun camos do nothing, that's how it should be in this. You should change your armor for there to be any changes in armor/evasion/critical chance.

Yes.

Or maybe make the unit have an invisible effect on the minimap and the screen, without it being really invisible? (A bit like those games with cloakings, Halo, etc.)

The mini-map is still under the fog of war anyway, since the camera is not locked to the AP-AM.

I'm not convinced that I can make a lorewise technological justification for adaptive camouflage, but then again, I didn't have force fields until recently either (and I gleefully avoid discussing their mechanics).

 

[Tleno]

Still I'd say some kid of advanced detection/scaning system would be really cool... maybe there could be a ne detecting traps/scaning enemy mechs and telling what is their weakness?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

Still I'd say some kid of advanced detection/scaning system would be really cool... maybe there could be a ne detecting traps/scaning enemy mechs and telling what is their weakness?

The problem there is that your enemies are RDZ Industries drone units -- lore-wise, your character is already quite aware of the technical capabilities of each one.

I've been thinking I should add schematics screens to some computers to try and fill this gap in real terms, but not sure yet.