Zephyr Challenge #6 - AOE Summon

[Hanky]

Contest Theme: AOE Summon


Description: Contestants must create a spell that affects a certain area, either targeted or on a specific unit. Sometime during the duration of the spell, a unit (or units) must be spawned for an amount of time.

Blizzard-made Examples:
1. Rain of Chaos (Spawns units in a targeted area)
2. Reanimate (Turns corpses into summoned units around the caster)
3. Locust Swarm (Summons tiny locusts that buzz around the caster attacking enemies)

Note: The classifying definition for a unit would be any entity that affects game-play on its own. This does not just mean attacking. So, if you wanted to create a spell called "Flower Garden" that spawns flowers in an area, and that attracts enemy units to it to smell the flowers; as long as each flower has the ability to attract units to it, than it would be classified as a summoned unit.

• 
  Contest Specifics:
• Spawned units must last for AT LEAST a duration of 5 seconds
• Only ONE submission is permitted for this contest
  
  Usual Rules:
• No submission may violate any of the site rules.
• If a submission does not follow the spell submission rules the creator will be disqualified.
• All submissions must follow the current theme. If any model does not fit, a moderator will tell you as soon as possible as to avoid confusion.
• Your submission must be posted before the deadline. The post containing your final submission must also contain the following:
  • An in game screenshot showing your submission in action.
  • The file in the appropriate format.
• You must show at least one unfinished preview of your submission, before the deadline, as proof that it’s yours.
• Your submission may not be started/made before the official launch of the contest.
• Judges and/or hosts may not participate.
• Your final submission must be bug free.
• Teamwork is not allowed.
  • Finding testers to help you with your submission is not considered teamwork.
• Imports may be used in the map, however they must all be credited.
• Either GUI or JASS may be used to create your spell; you will not be penalized if you use GUI over JASS.
• Spells must be able to be cast by at least one unit per player at any one time. (Otherwise known as "MPI")
• Third party editors may be used in the creation of your spell, but you must clearly state which editor you used to create the map. If a third party editor is necessary to use your spell, add a link, along with your spell submission, to download the editor.
  
  Examples of third party editors are:
  • World Editor Unlimited
  • JassNewGenPack (or Grimoire)
  • UMSWE
• You may use utilities that do small jobs for you, but you may not use large systems that do everything.
  Example of utilities

  • CSCache
  • Armor Detection System
  • Local Handle Vars
  • Vector System
  Example of large systems

  • Caster System
  • Particle/Object Engine
  • Knockback Functions
  • Jump System
• An infraction of any of the rules stated above may result in a disqualification.

First Place: 40 reputation points and a special award icon Second Place: 20 reputation points Third Place: 10 reputation points

Hanky & xxdingo93xx

• Coding	Is the code leakless, organized, MUI, multi-level supporting?	30/100
  The Big Idea	Is the spell balanced, unique, and useful in game-play?	30/100
  Visuals	Do the visual effects match the spell? Do the effects provide unnecessary clutter (too many), or are the not enough? Do the visual contribute in a positive manner?	15/100
  Presentation and Polish	Is the spell bugless; does it work? Is the tooltip well-written, and is a fitting icon chosen? Does the spell fit into WC3?	15/100
  Legal	Does the spell follow all contest rules?	10/100

• 70 % of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s).
• 30 % of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.

If you would like to enter the contest simply make a post in this thread, stating the information about your entry.

Entry Name	Contestant Name

All submissions must be complete and submitted 4 weeks after the contest is started. The contest shall begin on Thursday, November 5th and conclude on Thursday, December 3rd, 12:00 PM, 2009 GMT


Thanks to Asomath for his contest idea.

 

[baassee]

holy shit I think I'm in actually! FINALLY SCRIPTING CONTEST

 

[xxdingo93xx]

I'd apply as judge
If this doesn't get through I'll just participate I'd say.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Some questions;

• Contest theme says AOE Summon. Does that mean that it needs to summon a unit? Because the description says "must create a spell that affects a certain area, either targeted or on a specific unit".
• It doesn't have to be Warcraft related does it?

 

[Duragon]

You may use utilities that do small jobs for you, but you may not use large systems that do everything.

Why not? This is a spell contest, not a programming contest, so the focus should be on the spell itself and not the means to create the spell. (This is why both GUI and JASS are allowed in the first place...)

 

[TriggerHappy]

Why not? This is a spell contest, not a programming contest, so the focus should be on the spell itself and not the means to create the spell. (This is why both GUI and JASS are allowed in the first place...)

It's a coding contest.

 

[Duragon]

Nowhere is that mentioned in the contest rules. Anyways, if that is indeed the case, then I hope GUI gets converted to JASS and its "Coding" judging points are based upon the quality of that converted code.

 

[Eccho]

D: I want to join this but Im not sure I can

 

[baassee]

D: I want to join this but Im not sure I can

haha defending your title? ^^ hope you can be in

and yes it is a coding contest but this looks more like a spell contest refering to this

Contestants must create a spell that affects a certain area,

 

[Eccho]

Well naah, its more like a "I dont have time thingy" and "I do not mod wc3 anymore thing"

And well Duragon, if you aquestionate the rules, why not just skip to enter if you dont like them .__.

 

[Duragon]

And well Duragon, if you aquestionate the rules, why not just skip to enter if you dont like them .__.

Because that doesn't help the site improve at all. If something is wrong with the rules, you fix the rules, you don't default to letting the rules fail and just say "Well I won't enter so whatever."

 

[baassee]

Well naah, its more like a "I dont have time thingy" and "I do not mod wc3 anymore thing"

And well Duragon, if you aquestionate the rules, why not just skip to enter if you dont like them .__.

oh cmon we all know that you "CAN" mod wc3 the time thing is the problem, same for me :/

 

[Hanky]

I'd apply as judge

I would be fine with that.

Contest theme says AOE Summon. Does that mean that it needs to summon a unit? Because the description says "must create a spell that affects a certain area, either targeted or on a specific unit".

I think those blizzard spell examples like Rain of Chaos explain the theme pretty good. To answer your question: Yes you have to summon at least one unit.

It doesn't have to be Warcraft related does it?

A warcraft themed spell would make your submission more original.

 

[baassee]

1.
I think those blizzard spell examples like Rain of Chaos explain the theme pretty good. To answer your question: Yes you have to summon at least one unit.


2.
A warcraft themed spell would make your submission more original.

1. so with other words, everything that spawns from the spell and the "spawned" thingy does something that affects the current surroundings or entire map is counted as summoned unit right?

2. wwill it be more original if it is WC3 style? that will be hard to find something very unique among all the spells that have been created

 

[Eccho]

Because that doesn't help the site improve at all. If something is wrong with the rules, you fix the rules, you don't default to letting the rules fail and just say "Well I won't enter so whatever."

Anyway, the judging is clearly based on alot of criterias, one of them is the coding aspect. If you would have chosen to use a large system, this aspect would probably give you almost nothing in scoring. Thus saying large systems are forbidden to prevent this. Overall, yes it is a spell contest, but then again, you could just create a standard spell like Blizzard has already. Would you get scored well? No... You are suppose to show that you know how to code things on your own. The small systems are there as well to, if you want, show that you can use other users work.

 

[Hanky]

1. so with other words, everything that spawns from the spell and the "spawned" thingy does something that affects the current surroundings or entire map is counted as summoned unit right?

100 points for you. You are correct.

2. wwill it be more original if it is WC3 style? that will be hard to find something very unique among all the spells that have been created

Well if you want you could also make a spell which create chuck norris sitting on a meteor. But I don't think that something like this would look that good and would fit to wc3.

 

[Duragon]

Anyway, the judging is clearly based on alot of criterias, one of them is the coding aspect. If you would have chosen to use a large system, this aspect would probably give you almost nothing in scoring.

Why the hell? If you chose to use a system like xe in your spell, you should be hailed a hero for abstracting repetitive code away from your own spell code. That is the whole point of modularity, to simplify the development process and move code to other scripts so that it doesn't have to be repeatedly coded a thousand times by the user. The judging better support modularity as a good thing or this contest is totally out the window and I'm going to have to take it to some admins to deal with.

Thus saying large systems are forbidden to prevent this.

Thus nothing, your logic is flawed because you completely ignore proper and standardized coding procedure. Overall, yes, it is a spell contest, but there is a coding component that needs to be judged properly or not judged at all.

Overall, yes it is a spell contest, but then again, you could just create a standard spell like Blizzard has already. Would you get scored well? No...

Yeah, you know why? Because you'd lose points in the originality category. (Hanky calls it "The Big Idea") We're not talking about that category, we're talking about the one labeled "Coding."

You are suppose to show that you know how to code things on your own. The small systems are there as well to, if you want, show that you can use other users work.

Yes, and choosing which libraries to use to simplify your own spell's code is one of the most important parts of showing "how to code things on your own." That includes the caster system, xe, "knockback functions" (How can you possibly defend disallowing these?!), etc.

Right now these contest rules stand in opposition to proper development. If this site still had a development director, I'm sure he'd agree with me here. This is a spell contest, how the spell is created doesn't matter, what the spell does matters quintessentially more. Coding really shouldn't be judged at all in this case beyond whether or not the code made it too laggy to test in excess. If you want to turn it into a coding competition (Which it's not), then you must both list it as one in the contest rules and then add a rule that states that GUI code used will be converted to JASS before being judged. Those are the only two options that are remotely fair.

 

[Element of Water]

I must say I agree with Duragon. And this site does have a Development Director - PurplePoot - and yes, I'm sure he would agree with you as well.

 

[Duragon]

And this site does have a Development Director - PurplePoot - and yes, I'm sure he would agree with you as well.

Unfortunately, the proper term is 'did' have a Development Director. According to the staff list, PurplePoot has resigned (or been fired? I presume resigned).

 

[maskedpoptart]

According to the staff list, PurplePoot has resigned (or been fired? I presume resigned).

Shit... and he was doing such a good job. Anyway, I have to agree with Duragon. This is a spell-making contest; not a system-making contest. Attempting to remake good systems even better would be a contest in itself, not to mention a very difficult one. Think for a moment about how much work Blizzard abstracted for us when they created JASS. Would you strip all that away so we could have a coding contest? Popular systems are to JASS as JASS is to C. Everyone has access to these systems online, just as we have access to native functions. It's how we mix and match and organize these features, to create something, that determines our coding ability. If you want to disallow the use of systems for the purpose of a real coding competition, why don't you make us program in assembly? That would truly determine the coding master, and be a very productive use of our time...

 

[Hanky]

But still how you would rate a spell which got maybe 10-20 lines of code because it's just using those systems which make the work for you?

 

[Duragon]

If you've actually used those systems, you'll find that they simplify the very complicated parts of spellmaking (collision, dummy spellcasting, etc), but they don't remove the actual designwork necessary in creating a spell that is both cool and original. If someone made a spell and all it was was a target unit knockback, it'd fail on principle by being completely unoriginal and unexciting. That means it'd lose all originality judge points and no one would vote for it. That alone will inspire people to make serious spells using their serious scripting tools.

 

[Eccho]

Have it your way then. Put it up in the site discussion or werever it is, if you feel it needs to be changed. I guess the rules are there by a principle then, since it has always been like this.

Edit: And well I guess I was in a hazzle when I countered before, as you seem to have torn everything down

 

[maskedpoptart]

Maybe we can only allow people to use certain systems, and link to each system so that all competitors have the same base code to work with, if they so choose. Btw, when I say certain systems, I mean like 20 of them, including big ones. This would solve two problems: we wouldn't have to waste our time reinventing the wheel; no user would be advantaged due to having more resources. Not only that, it would encourage less experienced users to work with other people's code!

 

[Duragon]

Maybe we can only allow people to use certain systems, and link to each system so that all competitors have the same base code to work with, if they so choose. Btw, when I say certain systems, I mean like 20 of them, including big ones.

All entrants have access to all scripts on all websites unless otherwise specified, we shouldn't tell them what they can use, but rather where they can get it from. If you want to restrict the scripts used to just THW or whatever, then that is entirely up to the contest moderators. As long as it is consistent for all potential entrants, it's fair. (Although I am fairly sure most people would agree that the WC3C database seems to have more standardized utility libraries than anywhere else)

Have it your way then. Put it up in the site discussion or werever it is, if you feel it needs to be changed. I guess the rules are there by a principle then, since it has always been like this.

Should not discussions related to the Arena be kept to the Arena? I don't feel this is a matter of sitewide importance; we can resolve it here at no cost to anyone if the contest host simply changes the rules.

 

[Freyleyes]

Count me in for this contest.

But still how you would rate a spell which got maybe 10-20 lines of code because it's just using those systems which make the work for you?

Its true, with alot of those systems users just need to add a little code, usualy given by the scripter. Allot of user that has trouble with coding would then just use the systems, and do little or none themself.

 

[Duragon]

Its true, with alot of those systems users just need to add a little code, usualy given by the scripter. Allot of user that has trouble with coding would then just use the systems, and do little or none themself.

If the user plans to do remotely well in the contest, they cannot just "do nothing themselves." I invite people to try what you suggest and see just how people respond to it - both by not voting for it and by giving it 0 points in originality.

 

[Saia_Djinn]

Also count me in ,
since this not going to take so much time as a Racebuilding Contest



but i also don't understand the forbid of using e.g. xe

if i know loop via a group
or just use .CastOnGroup will make no difference for a guy who uses vJass,coz he know both solutions.
And someone who can't at least code a bit more experienced will also be not be able to use the systems

And to refer to what eccho said with the principe:

Maybe that's true , but we once had also an overwhelming church or people riding on horses instead driving by car

If civilization hadn't moved with the future we wouldn't have e.g. WC3 now nor cars or any technical thingies

So in my opinion sticking to the past and always doing it like in the past is kinda dumb(no offense).

This wasn't writen to humiliate anyone , it just expresses my opinion.

I also approve maskedpoptart's opinion

 

[Freyleyes]

If you make the rules that people can use any system or even the big systems that does everything, where are you gona draw the line on how much is needed to be coded self and how much can be done by the system?

 

[Element of Water]

Maybe there is no rule, you just get a lower coding score if you don't do much yourself.

 

[Duragon]

If you make the rules that people can use any system or even the big systems that does everything, where are you gona draw the line on how much is needed to be coded self and how much can be done by the system?

Easy, you don't draw that line. You let the spell's originality and cool-factor speak for itself. You cannot make any spell that is both original and cool if all you do is use other peoples' scripts and not do anything yourself. I needn't remind you that 30% of the judging is originality and if no one votes for you because your spell isn't original/cool, well, you won't place.

 

[Freyleyes]

30% of the judging is originality and if no one votes for you because your spell isn't original/cool, well, you won't place.

But the other 30% goes for coding. So in other words people might get 30 points for someone else's work.

 

[Duragon]

But the other 30% goes for coding. So in other words people might get 30 points for someone else's work.

Remember that my point was that this isn't a coding contest, so the code judging criteria would be removed and preferably added into the originality. (Making 60% originality instead of 30, unless rescaled)

Even if Hanky decides to leave it as is (which would make the whole contest into a coding contest and not a spell contest), then the judges obviously wouldn't give 30 points for someone else's code, they'd give 30 points for how it was used. If it were used properly, yet their spell was still too simple, they'd lose all originality points and do fine in coding (this is okay). Surely you recognize that a 70/100 is far worse than a 100/100 for the guys who made cool spells.

 

[Freyleyes]

Remember that my point was that this isn't a coding contest, so the code judging criteria would be removed and preferably added into the originality. (Making 60% originality instead of 30, unless rescaled)

Even if Hanky decides to leave it as is (which would make the whole contest into a coding contest and not a spell contest), then the judges obviously wouldn't give 30 points for someone else's code, they'd give 30 points for how it was used. If it were used properly, yet their spell was still too simple, they'd lose all originality points and do fine in coding (this is okay). Surely you recognize that a 70/100 is far worse than a 100/100 for the guys who made cool spells.

What you say is true, the way they implement it should count as coding, but with most systems the coder gives you all the code you need to implement the spell, so all you do is copy and paste the code given, just change some effects and values and there you go. If the you just use the system to enhance your spell, and not do your spell(More then 50% of the spell is your own) then I agree with you, those systems should be allowed, but most of the users that are inexperienced will just copy and paste, without doing anything.

Coding is very important for spells. So you can't go with just originality, you need to give points to coding aswell, maybe less for coding and more for originality(20/40)

 

[Duragon]

What you say is true, the way they implement it should count as coding, but with most systems the coder gives you all the code you need to implement the spell, so all you do is copy and paste the code given, just change some effects and values and there you go. If the you just use the system to enhance your spell, and not do your spell(More then 50% of the spell is your own) then I agree with you, those systems should be allowed, but most of the users that are inexperienced will just copy and paste, without doing anything.

So let them and they will reap what they sew and do poorly in the contest.

Coding is very important for spells.

Obviously, but if you're going to judge them on it, then the following rule is a lie:

Either GUI or JASS may be used to create your spell; you will not be penalized if you use GUI over JASS.

 

[Vosty]

When the idea came out, I was all ready to Jass.
Now that it is actually out, I don't know if I should join. I've benn kinda doing python and C++ and Lua writing small programs to make my school comps awesome, and am really busy.
And I'm playing that super-ultra rip-off game called world of warcraft =D

 

[Eccho]

Actually, that rule is new. GUI was penalized before by default, by the judge, but kind of not, by the voter. So I would be against it as well.

If orginality is so important, I would rather have it "no imports allowed". See, this is not a eyecandy contest. And since this is a spell contest your flavor may be considered that, since it all is about "look and appealing to other people who use it". I do know I won the last contest, and it used pretty many models. But then again, I also did all the coding myself in vJass...

Hell, if I wanted to enter this contest without having to code alot, I would simply use Blizzards shitty abilities, rename them, give them another tooltip and other effects with new imports. Why even bother using large systems? Also, figure, a person should be impressed by what you can do if it is your spell, not what someone else have done.

 

[Duragon]

Discussing this is kind of back and forth and going nowhere. I think I will pursue it further by PMing the arena moderator. (Is there even one?) Failing that, I will PM Hanky.

If orginality is so important, I would rather have it "no imports allowed". See, this is not a eyecandy contest. And since this is a spell contest your flavor may be considered that, since it all is about "look and appealing to other people who use it". I do know I won the last contest, and it used pretty many models. But then again, I also did all the coding myself in vJass...

Agreed, but it's hard enough getting the obvious changes made. Let's not try to change too much at once, lest we be completely ignored.

 

[Freyleyes]

Let us know what happens

 

[Saia_Djinn]

To the code-judging criteria:

I would judge the code if it's near the optimum and if you use systems a code is near the optimum,but you can also make loads of mistakes and a code with a line out of a system will not only cosists of 20 lines

see example(i know you already know)

if i do now:

call cast.castOnGroup(g)

or 

call ForGroup(g , function ...)

makes only the difference that my code gets longer and the group g gets cleared

if i do

call knockback(....)

then this will optimize my code instead of writing a own which can at least just be as good as a existing

rather give points on is everything cleaned, are only the lines there who should be there
etc.


another example should help this out:

what is better?

globals
    private location Temp_Loc = Location(0,0)
endglobals

loop
set a = a+1
exitwhen a > xxx
call MoveLocation(Temp_Loc , x , y)
set z = GetLocationZ(Temp_Loc)
endloop



or


loop
set a = a+1
exitwhen a > xxx
set l = CreateLoc(x,y)
call GetLocationZ(l)
call RemoveLocation(l)
set l = null
endloop

hope it's clear what i want to show and after which criteria's a code should be judged.
Not of not using systems , but by using the optimum of code to do the spell as good as possible

Here's a judging criteria out of the german modder site maybe you like it:



No Bugs
The spell should run without errors/harms

MUI
Is this spell fully MUI

Performance
running 500 loops in a periodic trigger is bad

Portability
Would it be hard to port this spell in another map?(coz it consists of 10 dummy abilites / 20 triggers and 30 dummy units?)

Easy to Change?
Is the spell easy configurable and could nearly everything be changed?

Good looking
Do the variables have senseful names? maybe are some comments there? Is the code readable?

efficient triggering
For initializing an array you can use a loop instead of xxx set-functions

also there are senseless variables and functions


I'm sorry for the english i just translated this in a few minutes

 

[Darkt3mpl3r]

I think you didn't get the point saia Djinn. If the rules say no system like xe.cast, knockback, ect then you may NOT use them. and there's absolutely nothing to argue about

 

[Asomath]

Listen guys... this contest took 3 or 4 months to go through. Can we just deal with this as is, and save the changes for Zephyr Challenge #7?

~Asomath

 

[Pyritie]

I think we're just going by whatever the rules were for the previous zephyr contest.

 

[Freyleyes]

Listen guys... this contest took 3 or 4 months to go through. Can we just deal with this as is, and save the changes for Zephyr Challenge #7?

I think we're just going by whatever the rules were for the previous zephyr contest.

Yes, and there is only so much time. We can't waste it just on deciding how to judge the contest.

Good luck to all in the contest

 

[Saia_Djinn]

then good luck hope some changes are made for the next HeroContest/ZephyrChallenge

Im still in anyways since this is clearly now i know what i can do and what not =(

since i am still able to use Timer/GroupUtils im fine

 

[Duragon]

I think we're just going by whatever the rules were for the previous zephyr contest.

So because the last one was poorly designed, all future ones must be poorly designed? Really?

 

[Statharas]

Although i don't have much time, i will try to do it...My spell will be "Call of the Dead".

 

[Pyritie]

So because the last one was poorly designed, all future ones must be poorly designed? Really?

I don't know I don't make spells

 

[Duragon]

But there's no moderator over the arena that does, so I guess it's just left to be lame forever. :|

 

[Asomath]

Though, the time for contest changes isnt when the contest is already approved :/

~Asomath