Your Favorite System For MMORPGs

[Nestharus]

What do you guys think would be a great combat system for MMOs.

Many MMOs in the past and many at the current state of game design use auto-attack combat systems. This means you get your gear, you build your character up, and then after that you can pretty much go to sleep and wake up every time a battle ends so you can hit the little attack button again.

Many gamers are getting fed up with this. So, a lot of game designers are now looking into different combat systems. Newer games use combat systems that include hitting the same combination of buttons again.. and again.. and again.. and again... (forever and ever and ever). Pretty much you don't really do much but hit buttons. Once again this is boring. One game that used this combat system is called Fury (you get to pick 9 moves, build up mana for various moves, and just do pretty much the same moves forever).

Another option is a sort of MMO RTS combat system like wc3 or SC2, but... that'd kind of eliminate single character games and what not... which would make people sad.

Then there's a combat system like most Final Fantasy systems which are turn based. This brings in strategy and what not, the player with the best ping wouldn't win, and well, each fight might take a long time... Later FF combat systems work off of programmed AIs, which means you build your characters and just run about watching them fight (now you don't even have to hit the little button, you can make the game hit it for you). If you don't have the AI, then you're generally using the same types of strategies based on your build and fights. You'll also end up dreading fights. Remember in FF games how when you get high enough and you're running to a boss, fights tend to take so long you never want to do them because of the turn based elements. I mean, they're boring, take no skill, it's just attack this guy, etc. It's really not much better than auto attack. Many games are going to this and I think this idea is an epic fail.

Well, what about games that are focused on button mashing. Woo, now our attack speeds are based on us... but omg, after 5 minutes of that you're not going to be able to press anymore buttons without numbing out your hands.. -.-

How about twitch based combat systems? You know, ones like Oblivion and what not, where you can control where your weapons go and shields go. While many dislike this because of lag and what not, a lot of FPS games use this. Then again, a lot of people say they play FPS games for their twitch combat systems. I ask, why can't these go into RPG games? Is there some rule that this great combat system is only allowed in FPS games? Well, there's a game called Savage 2 which uses a form of this to a pretty decent degree and it's a really awesome game. Too bad it has no marketing so nobody knows about it. It requires high speed connection only, so if you have the min connection, better pings from that point aren't going to make a much of a difference.

So, here's what I say. If you're going to create an MMO as realistically as possible where people can role-play as any type of character they want with extreme immersion and uniqueness to the role their playing (the game would have extreme detail). When you go to such detail, you don't have to make things like combat systems or what not anymore. You can just let a player handle anything and work it in with a physics engine or whatever and that'll do whatever. No more hp, damage will occur through the physics and actual rules of the world they are playing in. They'd be able to build cities and literally do anything they wanted.

What this means? Incredible skill-based combat systems where the character's in-game growth only increases the potential to use that character (the player's skills aren't augmented unless they maybe do a build type with low potential or something), and well... every system would be based on the player's actual skill from politics to w/e.

So why don't MMOs do this? Because, while you may not believe this, many people hate a lot of freedom to make their own choices and do whatever they want to do in a game. Many people like structure. Well, what if they join a military in the game? Or a guild and do assignments for the leader? Isn't that structure? The fact is, many players don't even like making that choice. If they want to join a guild and do assignments and what not for a guild leader, they're going to get a game specifically designed for that purpose. Isn't that pretty retarded? Yes it is... even if people are running their own guilds and can play the game any way they like because of all that freedom (meaning the game is whatever people want it to be), they're still going to dislike it because they just want it to be one thing. If they're playing in a guild, they want everyone else doing the same thing. You might be thinking, that's pretty silly... So already, that limits some of the audience for the game, but I still think a game like this would have a pretty large audience.

So what do you guys think? Would you guys love a system like this where players define their own world, their own cities, their own items, and their own history and whatever, as well as their own classes? Or would you rather have a system where all of the classes are pre-defined, all of the cities are pre-defined, and pretty much the entire game is automated (something more like EQ). Or would you like games in the center from complete and absolute freedom to automated? Or maybe something completely unique altogether.

This is where you can voice your opinions.

Keep in mind that some of these opinions might be added for support for a data architecture I'm doing : o, so you might actually see some of these ideas in a real game (). But really, this conversation is about seeing what people love about games or what people would wish a game would do. For example, look at Dynasty Warriors Empires. It uses a pretty good combat system, you can conquer the world, but there's no online game that can do that and you can't really save your own character's progression for other games of Empires. Look at Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Wonderful freedom in working with cities and stuff, but you can't build your own. Everything is pre-placed and the combat system is a joke. Look at Perfect World . It has cities and what not that you can conquer, but again it's all pre-placed and the combat system is horrible (full automated).

So what would make your perfect game (more talking about MMOs). Please be creative and please try not to be super specific (like I'd like an MMO just about building houses, ideas like that can be worked into MMOs). What would make your perfect world? What would you love to be in this world?

Example:
I'd like to see what it's like being a bounty hunter
An assassin
A thief
A general of an army building up camps and what not
A super strong soldier in an army

MMORPGs are all about role playing whatever you want to be with lots of other people. The more detailed the world is, the better your experience is because the more skill is required of you and the more you have to actually be playing what you want to be (if you're a soldier, it's not all automated, if you're a thief, you have to actually see a person's possessions on their body and steal them without anyone noticing, if you're an assassin, you have to use the shadows and you have to be skilled at one shot kills, if you're a general, you better know some great tactics and be good with giving out real speeches).

So, final thing:
What would you love to role play in a game if it could be anything

What things would you like to see in an MMORPG if you could have them

What type of combat system would you absolutely love in an MMORPG

Do you love absolute freedom or would you rather force players to play as a certain thing?

What kind of growth system would you love to see for characters (one that increases the actual character's power so as to take away from the player's required skills to use that character, one that is fully dynamic where players can learn any ability up to a certain point so as to build their own classes, one where players pick a class, one where players pick from a few trees to define their class).

 

[Vicboy]

How bored are you?

 

[The_wand_mirror]

The perfect and original MMO combat system is;

WASD to walk, 1st person. the button Q is an attack (You can change this to the regular attack ability or any other ability) and E will be the hotkey for defense (or any defense spells to secure yourself from damage.

Thats awesome. And offcourse other abilities will be cast with 1,2,3 etc.

 

[Eleandor]

MMORPGs are all about role playing whatever you want to be with lots of other people. The more detailed the world is, the better your experience is because the more skill is required of you and the more you have to actually be playing what you want to be (if you're a soldier, it's not all automated, if you're a thief, you have to actually see a person's possessions on their body and steal them without anyone noticing, if you're an assassin, you have to use the shadows and you have to be skilled at one shot kills, if you're a general, you better know some great tactics and be good with giving out real speeches).

Not really, if you want roleplaying you're playing the wrong game.

What I certainly don't want are:
- Damage displays: I don't want those stupid gay numbers floating on top of my enemy whenever I hit him! It isn't even useful cause who cares you do 100 dmg? All that would matter is your damage RELATIVE to the enemy's hp. So please, get rid of those stupid numbers
- Stupid animations: why does EVERY SINGLE mmorpg have these semi-flying semi-dancing idiots with the most idiotic fighting animations ever seen? I mean, how can my character hit the enemy in 0.1 seconds with a 3m tall halberd and then have to wait for 3 seconds before he hits again? It looks STUPID. Why does my "Rusted Longsword" create a super-nova effect of a 20m radius when I make a critical hit? I wouldn't even expect MAGICAL weapons to have such a stupid effect. Man, I really hate those stupid animations they use nowadays. Stupid stupidness.

Although that has little to do with the actual game mechanics, it felt pretty good to say it.

And by the way, why do you keep posting these ridiculous long messages ?

 

[Razorbrain]

I really dont see a problem with the Auto-attack system

i mean, you still have to cast spells, and playing against players, sleeping like that will get you nowhere. Especially in RvR battles

 

[Steel_Stallion]

How bored are you?

You find me one non-anime MMO that doesn't have 23492093423 spells and people running around in flashy armor with sparks flying out of their helmet and a flaming sword and a crystal skull shield with a glowing aura of darkness.


That would be a good start, we can build up a decent game from there.

 

[Nestharus]

Well, I'm not just talking about combat systems.

Really, what would be your dream MMO. Or are you very happy about current MMOs? More freedom to do things? Less freedom?

: P. It was all in the message : D

 

[Eleandor]

My dream videogame would probably be something like Infinity: the quest for earth. Even though that I'd be just as happy with a fantasy variant.

 

[Razorbrain]

well, im gonna go ahead and say that the current mmo(rpg)'s are going in the right direction, but have a long way to go. What I want is the combat system that most of them use, I want my "team" to be able to conquer the whole world. An example, in WoW, it will always be that The Alliance controls Stormwind and that the Horde controls Orgrimmar. What I want is for my team to be able to conquer the opposing teams cities, even capitals. This would work in the following way.

- Those who have "won" will stay in the world until a "opposing team" on another server has "won" on thier server. Then, they will be transfered to a new server and have their characters intact, but the world will be unchanged(like it was when the game was released).
- Those who have "lost" will migrate to another server

Warhammer has atleast started going in this way though, which is what i meant by "going in the right direction".

Oh, and not all the spells should focus on dealing Damage / Healing / Buffing / Debuffing

an example to this would be something like "Magic Wall" spell which would create a barrier the enemies cant move through. Becouse now i feel like its just "oh, i can deal X much damage" or "oh, i can heal x much life" or "oh, i can hold you stunned for x amount of seconds"

last and not least, UNIQUENESS TO CHARACTERS! There should be some weapons that only 1 person from each server should be able to have. There should be a title that only some people on each server can have. There should be some abilities that only some people can use becouse they are special.





oh, and there shouldnt be different Tiers when it comes to sets. Or maybe atleast 2 different sets for each Tier.

 

[AirHead]

I am sorry I cannot get what I want to say across without going against your post layout.

You described my game, you see I am making an MMORPG with Amateur Studios, in fact I am the lead designer. The game is called Other World, the best description I could give is, it's better than any MMORPG, it's simply an MMO. I have taken into account all of the problems and how to make everything possible and consulted it with others and have worked it all out. We intend to use a new concept called the Contract system, and our magic system will be amazing, I wont tell you much about them as I fear that they will end up in a game before Other World is finished.

the game is still in it's early stages, and it may be a few years until it's finished. Look it up soon, it will have a website probably within the next year. I will post a thread linking to the site when it is up.

I refuse to give anymore information now.

As far as the battle system goes, The Legend of Zelda has the perfect battle system for swordplay. It is very complex, but the only problem is that the AI's in the game are not good enough to make swordplay more than just attack, attack, attack, attack, ect.

 

[Nestharus]

Airhead, that sounds rather interesting.

As you can all probably tell, my dream game is absolutely anarchy where the developers aren't involved at all. Players are responsible for everything and can do and be anything they want.

And airhead, I'm designing a game like the thing I laid out too ^_^ with an incredible combat system that makes use of accelerometers (for now) and so on : D.

I'm using PhysX for the physics engine : o, and right now I'm using the XNA framework ^_^.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Unique weapons pose a problem in that it is only one person with each one; people get fed up about how the best person keeps getting better. Deeper levels of weapon customization would be ideal; for example, stick some sort of attachment on a weapon that improves one stat but decreases another.

Anyways, I like a lot of the things Zero Online has, even though PVP is way imba and you can tell it was designed in Japan.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

The problem with MMOs:

• Players want to feel special. You can't have fifty thousand "Chosen Ones" and expect to be the shit. Everything you've done has already been done before besides that small population of pioneers.
• There's no real character development. When I play a game, I'm either looking for an interesting system or a good story, and MMOs really straddle the fence on that one.
• Grinding. Moreso in MMOs than in any other game, because not only do yo end up doing more of it, but the battle system is a lot less interesting yet time consuming for small fry in these kinds of games as well.
• So I guess people do it for the social interaction, which is shooting yourself in the foot, given that the majority of people you're going to meet consists of assholes.

The only thing MMOs have going for them is the fun of accomplishing really hard tasks with a large group of friends, in my opinion.

 

[Nestharus]

So, how would you change about MMOs to make them more fun?

See, I really love MMOs, but I think a lot of the ones that are being done right now are pretty crappy . As you said, the only thing they really have going for them is social interaction.

One reason many MMOs are so eh is because they show an entire world, but all players are adventurers. Every shop keeper, guard, and everything is an NPC. The players have little or no effect on the real world they are playing. Once more, there's a standard set of items and so on. Because of this, you start getting guides like how to get your perfect set of gear for your Ranger or w/e the heck you're playing. Another issue is many contain set classes. If they don't, they allow you to max out in everything. So let's say you're playing one where you max out in everything. What ends up happening is everyone has the same gear, the same skills, same abilities, and so on.

It's like, hi Adventurer 233, you kill that dungeon yet?

Nop, you can have it

Cool, tx

And I can only imagine what the duels would be like..

Zamgz, my luck sucks. I lost by 1 hp . Damn this random based damage ><. I mean, we're like the exact same character. We even got the same hairstyle : O.

Really, MMOs need a big change. If they are going to have a massive world, they need to represent a massive world and let players interact and be a part of any part of that world that they want to be in. From here, they need to make every aspect of the world interesting (if you decide not to be an adventurer and you decide maybe to go into real estate instead, how does the game change? What new challenges are you presented with?).

So here's my idea-
1-
You have an entire world... players can go underground, above ground, dig, fly, whatever... so long as they follow the laws of physics and or magic for that world.

2-
You have a few cities, a few empires and what not as well for the world, which is pretty normal. It's fully dynamic, meaning these cities could be demolished, these empires could fall, and so on. The history is written down somewhere so you can learn about what happened. Players can record history as well (rise and fall of empires and so on), and the devs can make it so some NPCs might record it too.. This means you're entering a world with a rich history, vibrant cultures, and loads of unique NPCs with their own behavior patterns and so on which make up their AI, and full speech capabilities with these NPCs (yes, you would need a dictionary in the game ><). This means if an NPC tells you to find a horse, you don't say from a list of options or choose from a list, you say whatever you want and they'll respond accordingly.

3-
The ability to go into any part of the world you want to go into and be a part of it. Let's say you are just starting out... well, you might start out as a spirit and go through various tests and so on so you can find out the makeup of your character. From there, you can choose from a base location of where you'd like to start out. The makeup of your character and how you talk will determine how NPCs and so on view you. It will also determine some of your strengths and weaknesses, along with your race. In my opinion, it's better to make your character through action than to go through little menus and say ho ha, I want more strength, so you click the little up arrow on the strength. That to me.. is silly ><.

From here, you could pretty much do anything from being a little farmer to being some great overlord dude that rules half the world. Depending on your position, the game would change. If you were to play as some general or overlord dude, you'd be dealing with a lot of RTS game elements. For example, let's say you were quite the tyrant and a lot of people started rebelling against you in an attempt to remove you from power. You lose to them, you lose your entire empire, everything crumbles around you, and you're executed. You might be thinking, omg, that would suck, but that would be like game over for you. You'd be losing to your own game. Everyone would be allowed to play the game any way they liked, and the game itself would be unique to each player. Your win and loss conditions are fully dependent on how you are playing it. If you're a farmer and you lose your farm, that's a game over for you and you gotta restart. If your character gets killed, well, that would suck ><.

4-
A 1 life system. If you die, you're not coming back and you lose your character forever. You might be thinking, omg, what if some super bad-ass guy starts going around killing all the beginners. Well, you were probably stupid for leaving the protection of a city all by yourself. If you were in a caravan and you were just totally overrun by a mass army of bandits, #1, the bandits probably aren't really making anything because they have to split the loot so many ways, and #2, you've probably got some pretty bad luck, lol. Well, it's not all bad. If a player dies, they might first go to purgatory where they can be revived in various fashions by other players/NPCs. The longer you are dead, the more skill is required to revive you. At one point, you might as well give up and start over.

Now, there would be multiple types of revival, for example, a cleric revival. That is where you just revive, you're happy and so on. Now, there's also like a necromatic revival. This is where some evil necromancer guy comes along, sees your corpse and thinks, oo, nice pet for me ^^. When this happens, you might be launched into some sort of hell-hole (telling you that you were turned into some undead freak in the world of the living). Now, you have to fight your way out of this hell hole or give up your body and whatever to the necromancer and start over. If you escape it, you pop back up in your body and that necromancer better start running away unless he's some uber badass in which case he'll probably just kill you again and revive you.

Now, this also means players and NPCs would have the ability to loot your corpse in any way they wanted to. They could also cut up your corpse, maim it, or w/e. So if you get revived and you're missing both your legs, well... ><... you might ask to be killed again.

Now, you'd also have a spirit or w/e as I may have let on. This means as you grow in power, your soul grows in power bit by bit, so dying might not be at all too bad. When you restart, you're going to be a bit more talented because your soul will be stronger. Hell, if you die and reincarnate enough times, you might become some super god being (you'd have to become some super guy, die, and start over to become another super guy like 10,000+ times for that ><). So you can't really look at it as overly bad. However, if you are dying as a weakling, your soul could get weaker in strength and eventually dissipate (eep).

Another thing is some very powerful things like maybe a super arch lich could enslave your very soul in which case you've pretty much lost that character unless the lich dies or someone frees you somehow or the lich frees you. Beings like that you probably don't want to mess with. Other cases might be beings that could devour your soul in which case that would be a 100% game over, or beings that could totally destroy it. But as you can probably imagine, nobody would probably be dumb enough to go after things like this unless they are just insanely powerful or they're leading some army to take out something. Also keep in mind that I said players would be able to become anything. Maybe you want to be some super arch lich yourself and start enslaving other people's souls to create your own undead empire .

In a world like this, I think players would outlaw necromancy. Anyone caught having anything to do with necromancy would probably be chased after and killed, heh, because being a necromancer is pretty bad. I don't know, maybe everyone would just be something like this and the world would go totally undead or something. It's not an overly powerful path that you'd be able to choose as you'd have to deal with controlling all of those souls and so on and keeping them trapped. Imagine controlling hundreds of souls and all of them get out at once . You'd be up against like 100+ pissed off players.

Oh well : D.

5-
Everything within the game needs to require actual player skill from combat systems to spell casting systems to political systems and so on. Some of them might require incredible social skills and the ability to make great speeches whereas others might require intense mental capabilities and finally some might require great reaction times and so on. Really, everything needs to run off of the player, not the character. Growing your character and so on should only increase the character's potential, meaning more of your skill shows through. If you grow a character for like a totally strategic player and so on and you're really more of an on the battlefield fighter type, well, your skills aren't going to really show through unless you go more into strategy and so on. That's the kind of system I envision. This means if a like level 100 player (talking skills, not the character) fought off against a level 10,000 player who was using a character that capped him at 100, they'd be pretty evenly matched.

6-
You should have the ability to manipulate anything in the world from breaking a piece of stone off of a wall to pouring water on someone's head to sawing a piece of wood in half. As long as you have a physics engine running the world and you augment that physics engine with the various magic things you've put in, it should all work out ><.

Oh well, these are just some of my own personal thoughts for my own perfect MMO, the kind I really want to make : D. I was just curious as to what other people's perfect MMOs were = ).

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I took the liberty of moving this thread to General Gaming.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

That huge wall of text is probably too much for one CD, not to mention the second one already happens, just not on as intensive and impractical a scale as you want. The second half of third one is already into effect, where you gain experience towards certain spells and attributes depending on what spells and attacks you use. The fourth one is just retarded and completely imbalanced towards established players to be PKs; the very first person or group to get significantly strong on a server could just knock out all the competition before they got close. Any sort of lasting penalty of equipment or stats for dying is just unfair when there is PvP. The 5th one is impractical by any and all speech recognition software, and the 6th would take up way too much memory.

 

[Nestharus]

These are just my ideas for my own perfect MMO. This discussion is about discussing what your perfect MMO would be. I'm not asking for people to criticize another person's ideas or say they're idiots or whatever. I'm just saying talk about your own perfect MMOs and the systems that would run them and what not. Look at the thread.

If you want to criticize other people's ideas, start your own thread and say, post ideas here so I can criticize them. If you want to share your own ideas, go ahead and share them. If you want to talk to someone privately about their ideas because you might be like-minded or find them cool, there's a thing call a PM. You should use it.

If you want to discuss ideas, go for it here. Let's say someone says something and you build upon it and ask them what they think and everyone puts into it so we get a set of cool ideas.

As the thread name might suggest, criticizing is not welcome ^_^.

Well, here's my explanation I suppose. This is the only one I'm doing -.-
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Second half of the third one doesn't talking about gaining points towards certain abilities. It talks about the game being unique to each player playing it = ).

The fourth one, in your opinion*, is retarded. In my opinion*, it isn't : p. And read the second half of the third one for balancing. In that I talked about a scenario where someone got immense power and because they were poor in their tactics, a group of rebels arose and fought to remove him from power, so that was game over for him because he lost the battle against the mass of rebels. I also talked about things like lich's getting immense power through mass enslavement or something. What if many of those souls escaped? That'd be a lot of pissed off players.

When you have people attacking others in full-scale pvp, you generally don't attack whoever, because if you do and you start doing 1-life systems, you get things like bounties on your head, you get people chasing after you. I know for a fact because I used to play on a server like this for an MMO mod. Here's the story.


There was a pretty powerful guy. I had no spells and was all melee and was one of the strongest on the server. He'd blind me so I couldn't see him and attack me with pets and constantly take all my items. I got pretty pissed after awhile so I got a band of friends and ambushed him in one of the final dungeons. One of us blinded him and we all destroyed him, looted his gear, and destroyed his items.

Now when you start having things like this, you might have things like assassins guilds where players higher guilds to kill people they dislike. If you're a murderer, law enforcement (created by players) might put a bounty on your head, or other players might put a bounty on your head. From here, bounty hunters in the game will be tracking you down based on your bounty. If you piss off enough players, they could add to the money pool for your bounty, meaning your bounty might be huge.

I mean, when you have things like this, players will balance it out. If one person gets too strong, multiple players are going to target them unless they have great diplomatic skills. If everyone is just dumb, then I guess that person wins.

I don't really see any problems with this system. I'm sure you do, but players can do what they like and have full freedom. I know some people are like, I don't want to have freedom because I'm afraid how other people will use that freedom, but if people use it like that, you can use it like that too, and you can party up with people and gang up on them. I'm not even talking about just fighting. What if someone uses dirty tricks to win a political battle? Like he assassinates someone and says you did it. Well..... it justs adds some interesting things.

Also, for penalties on dying, there really is no penalty. If you get revived and nobody did anything to you, like loot your corpse or damage your body in some way, then well... no loss on your part. And as I said before, with my own idea for a system, dying wouldn't even necessarily be bad. Now, if you constantly died young and so on, that would be bad. If you fought some super arch demon guy, that might be bad.

#5:
Speech recognition? Have no idea where you got this idea from... I was talking about text myself... you can type out a speech...

#6:
If you're doing everything in the entire world for every player at all times.. then yes.. it would, but that would be a really dumb way to do it.. If you maximized the efficiency by only doing what had to be done for each player (only doing what's absolutely visible) and by making their computers do the calculations and not the server (this means they could set their own visibility settings and what not), then you could pull it off.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

You're sharing your ideas on the internet and not expecting the slightest bit of input or criticism?

About the fourth one, most games with even the smallest amount of customisability are unique every playthrough, or have potential to be so. You're talking about making things unnecessarily hidden that make it hard for players to build their characters the way they want, especially when they don't know they're in the process of building their characters. That is not noob-friendly.

About the fifth one, that's just him losing equipment and items, not his whole character. 1-life systems introduce an incredibly steep learning curve that scares away noobs. Nobody is going to make money off of that, aside from the fact that it's easier for a group of strong assholes to go around PKing people that are potential threats than it is to build up a group of characters that can take out one strong person. It starts off sounding cool, which I will give you, but I can assure you that it is objectively retarded. MMOs are about sociability, and PvP that is completely imbalanced in favour of established players does not help that in the slightest.

 

[Nestharus]

You're treating it like everyone is going to be fighting.

In reality, with this model, there might only be a small % of people into complete fighting or adventuring. I mean, you said it yourself, look at the dangers. It'd be better to remain in the protection of a city than to go out on your own. Going out on your own would be stupid... At the least travel in a group or in some sort of caravan or higher people to guard you.

When you are in the protection of a city, I don't see anyone killing anyone else because that city is bound to have its own internal protection, like guards and so on. if you get one group of powerful people, the real question is whether they can take out other cities. When you get into that, you're getting into war and strategy.

You're talking about an impossible scenario. If they are getting into war and strategy, they need a larger group, soldiers, and so on. If it's a small group of 10-20 people, I don't see how it would be possible for them to take out various cities, especially if they have fortified defenses. At the least they'd need some sort of heavy machinery or very powerful magic that takes forever to cast.

No matter how powerful you are, you just can't fight off against an army or w/e on your own.

Now, let's say they build their own city, they slowly build up their own army, then you get alliances and so on. For a group of people to get as powerful as you claim, they better have intense strategy.

Now, when it comes to the 1-life system, as I said, not everyone is going to be fighting. I mean, imagine you being some really strong guy that loves to kill. You're probably a murderer, you probably have a bounty, and you're probably wanted in every city in the world. This means you'd be in constant hiding and if you were seen in any city, you'd have the entire city chasing you.

If you were a group of people, you'd be fighting these cities and we get back into the RTS elements.

I just don't see how a scenario like the one you mentioned would really come into play, unless every single person wanted to be an adventurer. If there were only people adventuring and fighting, then yea, I could see it happen.

#1: Cities would obviously decline

#2: There would be no order

#3: People would do massive killings and start forming little clans to protect themselves from others

#4: Clans would start building their own cities once again to protect each other

#5: These cities would become regular cities, and then again, you'd get into RTS elements


As for building your own character.. You build them through what you do... I mean, while there are major limits and so on, you can still try everything out to a certain point and you can't really get much better beyond your own spirit's potential unless you really go into that field. If someone wanted to try their hand at sawing wooden planks to build ships or w/e, they could do that. If they wanted to really specialize in that, sure, why not. I mean, things are more based on the player's skill, the spirit's power, and the character's potential. The character's potential is marked by what areas they are majorly going into, which are based on various levels of tiers and trees and so on.

As for the learning curve for beginners. If you're a beginner and you want to be some super adventurer, you better understand you're going into a very hard and difficult field because you're not going to be protected by a city... That's why I don't see a large % of people who will flock out to this, and if everyone does do that, the model I described above would occur if they had any brains about them at all. All the low-skill people would die out, the remainder would form up into various clans, some might accept beginners or w/e, and for protection, they'd build their own cities or w/e, and then we get into economies and cities again and more RTS elements. From here we get into different forms of govt and so on again.

If empires start fighting, then you're going to have various independent factions and so on. And who's to say you don't want just one ruler or w/e. If it means peace, then that'll be safer for everyone.

Please describe a scenario in which a group of people take over an entire world (with already laid out cities and empires) and keeps constant control over it and watch over it (every nook and cranny) and keeps everyone who comes into this world dead...

I don't think you get it because you keep talking about pvp and so on. Like I keep saying, I doubt many people would really go into that. I know that I'd want to try out being a few things, a couple that have to do with fighting, a few that are political, etc. I'd even want to try my hand at building my own ships = ), I find that cool : P.



By the way, if the clan cities didn't turn into regular cities, their economy would completely falter. If they're constantly bringing in goods from adventures and what not, they'd still need food, which means they need people to grow their food or they have to trade, which means diplomatic relations or starting turning into a regular city. If you're in a total state of chaos where everyone is against everyone, you have to grow your own food, which means your own internal economy, which means you will have people that aren't fighting all the time.

It's impossible for everyone to be a fighter. If you did that, every city would always collapse... you could have NPCs doing that, but then you'd have very small cities with crappy govts, crappy protection, and low supplies of everything.. People define their own world...

 

[Teh_Ephy]

You're treating it like everyone is going to be fighting.

Because they will be? You're severely underestimating the number of people that just like to ruin other peoples' fun. In Zero Online, I'd be a PK if it didn't suck so bad to be PKed, but I'm always looking for an excuse to PK someone anyways.

In reality, with this model, there might only be a small % of people into complete fighting or adventuring. I mean, you said it yourself, look at the dangers. It'd be better to remain in the protection of a city than to go out on your own. Going out on your own would be stupid... At the least travel in a group or in some sort of caravan or higher people to guard you.

Again, see the above. If there are caravans, there are raiders. That happens in real life.

When you are in the protection of a city, I don't see anyone killing anyone else because that city is bound to have its own internal protection, like guards and so on. if you get one group of powerful people, the real question is whether they can take out other cities. When you get into that, you're getting into war and strategy.

That is definitely objectively retarded. All the materials to do anything fun in the city are acquired by going outside, to grind or farm, unless you're selling people porn or something. A world with more PvP safe areas than not sounds extremely small and closed.

You're talking about an impossible scenario. If they are getting into war and strategy, they need a larger group, soldiers, and so on. If it's a small group of 10-20 people, I don't see how it would be possible for them to take out various cities, especially if they have fortified defenses. At the least they'd need some sort of heavy machinery or very powerful magic that takes forever to cast.

See above.

No matter how powerful you are, you just can't fight off against an army or w/e on your own.

You can fight it off before it becomes an army, and you can recruit like-minded friends to help.

Now, let's say they build their own city, they slowly build up their own army, then you get alliances and so on. For a group of people to get as powerful as you claim, they better have intense strategy.

That's immensely improbable. City-building would require massive amounts of server space, not to mention it would be hard as hell for users.

Now, when it comes to the 1-life system, as I said, not everyone is going to be fighting. I mean, imagine you being some really strong guy that loves to kill. You're probably a murderer, you probably have a bounty, and you're probably wanted in every city in the world. This means you'd be in constant hiding and if you were seen in any city, you'd have the entire city chasing you.

I thought cities were PvP safe-zones?

If you were a group of people, you'd be fighting these cities and we get back into the RTS elements.

Again, massive server space.

I just don't see how a scenario like the one you mentioned would really come into play, unless every single person wanted to be an adventurer. If there were only people adventuring and fighting, then yea, I could see it happen.

#1: Cities would obviously decline

#2: There would be no order

#3: People would do massive killings and start forming little clans to protect themselves from others

#4: Clans would start building their own cities once again to protect each other

#5: These cities would become regular cities, and then again, you'd get into RTS elements

People do not run cities. It's hard to code something so variable, it's hard for people to be on frequently enough to police every little thing (and only big things too, what if the head of police is offline when my aforementioned uber PK walks through town?), it takes a lot of server space. Server Admins run cities.

As for building your own character.. You build them through what you do... I mean, while there are major limits and so on, you can still try everything out to a certain point and you can't really get much better beyond your own spirit's potential unless you really go into that field. If someone wanted to try their hand at sawing wooden planks to build ships or w/e, they could do that. If they wanted to really specialize in that, sure, why not. I mean, things are more based on the player's skill, the spirit's power, and the character's potential. The character's potential is marked by what areas they are majorly going into, which are based on various levels of tiers and trees and so on.

Do you even understand the fact that gamers buy games to, I don't know, game? Also, why are you sawing down your city's park to build a ship? You'd need to go outside to do that. Furthermore, why do you need the right "spirit" to be able to saw planks? It's entirely about physique.

As for the learning curve for beginners. If you're a beginner and you want to be some super adventurer, you better understand you're going into a very hard and difficult field because you're not going to be protected by a city... That's why I don't see a large % of people who will flock out to this, and if everyone does do that, the model I described above would occur if they had any brains about them at all. All the low-skill people would die out, the remainder would form up into various clans, some might accept beginners or w/e, and for protection, they'd build their own cities or w/e, and then we get into economies and cities again and more RTS elements. From here we get into different forms of govt and so on again.

Because there's really so much to do in a city. Shopping, talking, and... Oh wait, no there's not. And all that requires money, which more than presumably is only obtainable by selling things from drops, or just money drops.

If empires start fighting, then you're going to have various independent factions and so on. And who's to say you don't want just one ruler or w/e. If it means peace, then that'll be safer for everyone.

If empires start fighting, that's the scripters and server admins starting a war, and it will just be new faction-specific enemies popping up in odd places.

Please describe a scenario in which a group of people take over an entire world (with already laid out cities and empires) and keeps constant control over it and watch over it (every nook and cranny) and keeps everyone who comes into this world dead...

The first PK guild becomes large and active. I think I'm pretty much done.

I don't think you get it because you keep talking about pvp and so on. Like I keep saying, I doubt many people would really go into that. I know that I'd want to try out being a few things, a couple that have to do with fighting, a few that are political, etc. I'd even want to try my hand at building my own ships = ), I find that cool : P.

Oh, it wouldn't be that many people would get into PvP. That would actually be the problem, not enough people around to stop the people that are around. Also, users do not run cities, admins and storywriters do.

By the way, if the clan cities didn't turn into regular cities, their economy would completely falter. If they're constantly bringing in goods from adventures and what not, they'd still need food, which means they need people to grow their food or they have to trade, which means diplomatic relations or starting turning into a regular city. If you're in a total state of chaos where everyone is against everyone, you have to grow your own food, which means your own internal economy, which means you will have people that aren't fighting all the time.

It's impossible for everyone to be a fighter. If you did that, every city would always collapse... you could have NPCs doing that, but then you'd have very small cities with crappy govts, crappy protection, and low supplies of everything.. People define their own world...

What you've described just now (after adding cybersex) is called Second Life. Go download it and have fun playing the MMO about nothing, because you need that much free time to worry about living another life.

 

[Mecheon]

Nestharus, you underestimate MMO gamers

They hate you. They hate me. If they can cause you pain and suffering, they will. People would huddle around towns and leave, only to find a massive army, probably being lead by the strongest they could find, ready to slaughter them

Incidently, this did happen once! A person went onto Everquest, leveled up, turned himself PVP, and then went to terrorise lowbies in various manners. Eventually, he started making deals with them, and it got to the point where he told someone he'd let him live if he joined him and attacked anyone he told him to. Random comes along, and he jokingly tells his new minion to attack

Said minion attacks

This then exploded after a few weeks, effectively forming a brutal, efficient group who would only let people level if they joined them. This also offered protection because if anyone attacked one of them, suddenly the rest would come and kill them. And to think, that all started from griefing

What you've described just now is called Second Life. Go download it and have fun playing the MMO about nothing, because you need that much free time to worry about living another life.

Second Life is all about just cybersex and you know that as well as I do :|

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Nestharus, you underestimate MMO gamers

They hate you. They hate me. If they can cause you pain and suffering, they will. People would huddle around towns and leave, only to find a massive army, probably being lead by the strongest they could find, ready to slaughter them

Incidently, this did happen once! A person went onto Everquest, leveled up, turned himself PVP, and then went to terrorise lowbies in various manners. Eventually, he started making deals with them, and it got to the point where he told someone he'd let him live if he joined him and attacked anyone he told him to. Random comes along, and he jokingly tells his new minion to attack

Said minion attacks

This then exploded after a few weeks, effectively forming a brutal, efficient group who would only let people level if they joined them. This also offered protection because if anyone attacked one of them, suddenly the rest would come and kill them. And to think, that all started from griefing

Case in point, thank you.

Second Life is all about just cybersex and you know that as well as I do :|

Okay, so he described Second Life without cybersex. I'll go fix that.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Edit: I felt obliged to post something positive, but the 6 walls of text turned me off.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Hi guyz, u writing books again? ^^

 

[Nestharus]

Some games allow you to build cities, well, they are in development, so that's already in there. *Cities do not have to be run and *should* not be run by the developers and admins. They should have nothing to do with the game except for laying out the world for people to go into. Look at games like Perfect World. Sure you can't build cities in it at the moment, but you can control territories and kill people who enter your territory and shouldn't be there.


Another issue is what you were talking about is normal with the huge army for EQ. However, if everyone is all over the place and you're constantly being attacked by people who disagreed with you, you would need a city for protection, meaning walls to run and hide in, NPC Guards that you might have hired (only a few). No, I don't expect players to be around 24/7 protecting and guarding their own city and so on, but I do expect them to be hiring NPCs and using them effectively as well as helping out in certain ares (not all guards have to be NPCs). Also, I expect that any player would be better than any NPC at any given task.

Moving on. You said it would take a lot of server space? I don't see where you're coming from on this... It would take a lot of server space for all the detail, yes, but if you were just building a regular city and didn't have all the detail I mentioned above, then no, it wouldn't take up much server space at all : ). Server Space isn't the issue here though. The issue is making it so players can process the game's on their computers without crap framerates and so on, which means there has to be a limit to how much detail is being done at any given time.



Now, you keep talking about all currency coming from drops? Wtf? What if you built your city around a mine? Or around a lake? Or had a forest nearby? Seriously, stop thinking in such small terms.. You don't have to kill or get drops or w/e. I mean, it's not like you're going to find some special dagger on a rat... I really doubt there will be hardly any gear drops from monsters in the game as there is very little gear that's set up in the game. The rest comes from NPCs and Players who make it in real-time. Let's say you're some legendary mage and you make some really sicko armor. You give it to like a legendary warrior and he dies in some sicko dungeon. Yes, then you'd be finding some really incredible armor in a really insane dungeon place crafted by some legendary figure. Also, considering how long it would take to make weaponry and things like that, there'd be very little of it.

Now, back to the army idea. So, let's say all the pvpers want to be an army. Well... how are they going to get their food? Sure, they can be bandits and what not, but if they burned every city to the ground, they'd all starve and die ><. I Guess they could attempt to enslave NPCs/PCs, but if they did that they'd probably have a rebellion. Now keep in mind that there are already a few empires and many cities in the game world. They'd have to be stronger than every empire because when bandits arise, if they are a big enough threat, huge groups of people (like entire empires) generally band together to dispose of them.

I mean, I can see how it would be possible if nobody cared and let them do what they want. It's possible to conquer the world, and to maintain control if you're really really* good, but it's insanely difficult and you'd probably have to have someone in your group on 24/7 to deal with various threats, or you could lose it just like that. And what happens when you log off? If you're logged off and an army attacks you and defeats you while you're gone and kills you in your sleep, that could suck.... (yes logging off doesn't exit you from the world, you're always in, you're just sleeping : D, so if you log off in some dangerous area or a very public area or w/e, that'd be very dumb on your part).

I mean, you gave some examples, but like I said, once again those are for entirely different types of games... There are no non-pvp areas btw, full freedom at all times. But yea... When you said they killed people to keep them from leveling etc, where are they maintaining their equipment? Where are they getting their food? What kind of protection do they have when they log off. Sure, you could kill one, but what if everyone is constantly killing them until there's nobody left?

Here, I'll use a great example of what you guys are talking about. Have any of you ever seen the movie The Postman?

What about Star Wars 4-6?

I mean, if you're making situations like that impossible to happen, you're taking away from the game and taking away from scenarios people can roleplay in and try out. Who's to say someone doesn't want to be some sort of rebel who's trying to remove some evil despot from power? I think it sounds like a pretty cool role to play as.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Now, you keep talking about all currency coming from drops? Wtf? What if you built your city around a mine? Or around a lake? Or had a forest nearby? Seriously, stop thinking in such small terms.. You don't have to kill or get drops or w/e. I mean, it's not like you're going to find some special dagger on a rat...

I read a little past that, but I stopped giving your arguments the slightest bit of merit right there. Why are you so hung up on the concept of videogames being like real life? You said that you don't expect people to hang around 24/7 babysitting their cities and businesses, but their characters are online and easy to kill 24/7? The next paragraph is objectively retarded too; how exactly would players make everything in a videogame without being coders or going through hours of menus like you didn't want? People make, sell, and buy videogames for people to play in, not to work in. I'm not going to tell you to go play Second Life this time. Go join an RP forum, or kill yourself and hope to get reincarnated into your magical fantasy world if you want one so bad, because what you're asking is several stages of loser/escapist past intensive D&D sessions.

 

[Nestharus]

Uh, because there would be no menus and coding involved?

I don't know where you're getting this coding stuff and menu stuff from... ...

If you're putting wood together with nails building a house or w/e... or putting up walls.. where do you have to program that??? Tell me, I'd love to hear.

If you're hammering a sword at a blacksmith and making it and what not... shaping it... Where are you programming????? Where are you using a menu??


I have no idea what you're talking about with menus and programming. It's like saying for making your own hero in a game, to make your own hero in a game, you gotta program it first , either that or "you have to have menus."

Uh... sry to say... but that's totally falso. You don't *HAVE* To have menus to build something, and you don't HAVE to program it. IT's not like the game police are going to come by my place and say, HEY!! You didn't put menus in there for creating a character!! You're coming with us!!!

Well, I guess it could happen... I don't know, maybe they really do exist? *cough* *cough* *cough*


What I'm getting from you (what I'm reading and understanding) is that you're calling me an idiot because you have no idea how you yourself would design it and because I haven't described how I would design it. So, are you doing this just to make yourself feel better? Or do you think because you wouldn't know how to do it, it must be impossible..

Well, jeeze, I don't know how to create a black hole, so it must be impossible. All those things about black holes existing.. Yea, that's just bs. And because some guy in New Hampshire doesn't know how to make a car, that must mean making cars is impossible. It's all just a big conspiracy and those cars you see on the street.. yea... lasers O-o.

Now, if you want to learn how I would do a design like that, read the thread title.

AHem.. I'll put it here just in case..

Your Favorite System For MMORPGs

I don't see, DESIGN YOUR SYSTEMS HERE AND TALK ABOUT THEM

I see, what would be your favorite type of system for an MMO

I don't see, Go around and tell people that system is impossible just because you don't know how to do it. What if they happen to know how to do it? Just because you can't think out of the box doesn't mean they can't.

In my ideal game, the players would have 0 menus... and I don't know why you'd have this in a game, but 0 programming as well. And don't try saying, so you're not going to program the game because read the sentence and notice I Said *PLAYERS*. Not once did I say dev. I figure someone would have said that if I didn't add that tidbit.

Now, for your finishing statement. Why do you think there are so many social functions in MMOs????? ..... What do you think is the real point of an RPG..

If you can't figure it out, let me spell it out for you

Role Playing Game

Wait, let me do that again, but this time in bold

Role Playing Game

Are you telling me that you shouldn't be RolePlaying in a *Role Playing* Game and that you should just join a Role Playing Forum (which are a direct result of no RolePlaying Games having that detail that some people really want).

Wait, let me recap that

Roleplaying Forums are just a result of the fact that Role Playing Games or Massive Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Games don't have the detail some people want.


I'm.. not even going to respond... Why do you think I'm making a game. Wait, before you respond, no, it's not because I want to own a magical horsey.

Uh... let me spell it out one more time..

Roleplaying Forums are just a result of the fact that Role Playing Games or Massive Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Games don't have the detail some people want.

Yea.....

btw, Obama wins : D

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Uh, because there would be no menus and coding involved?

I don't know where you're getting this coding stuff and menu stuff from... ...

If you're putting wood together with nails building a house or w/e... or putting up walls.. where do you have to program that??? Tell me, I'd love to hear.

If you're hammering a sword at a blacksmith and making it and what not... shaping it... Where are you programming????? Where are you using a menu??


I have no idea what you're talking about with menus and programming. It's like saying for making your own hero in a game, to make your own hero in a game, you gotta program it first , either that or "you have to have menus.".

Uh... sry to say... but that's totally falso. You don't *HAVE* To have menus to build something, and you don't HAVE to program it. IT's not like the game police are going to come by my place and say, HEY!! You didn't put menus in there for creating a character!! You're coming with us!!!

Jesus Christ, if you're making your own anything you need to code it in or go through menus that have been coded in. You can't just fucking think at it and have it appear

What I'm getting from you (what I'm reading and understanding) is that you're calling me an idiot because you have no idea how you yourself would design it and because I haven't described how I would design it. So, are you doing this just to make yourself feel better? Or do you think because you wouldn't know how to do it, it must be impossible..

I'm calling you an idiot because you're asking for an MMO to basically completely mimic how real life would be in another world. Kill yourself and hope for reincarnation.

Well, jeeze, I don't know how to create a black hole, so it must be impossible. All those things about black holes existing.. Yea, that's just bs. And because some guy in New Hampshire doesn't know how to make a car, that must mean making cars is impossible. It's all just a big conspiracy and those cars you see on the street.. yea... lasers O-o.

Now, if you want to learn how I would do a design like that, read the thread title.

AHem.. I'll put it here just in case..

Your Favorite System For MMORPGs

I don't see, DESIGN YOUR SYSTEMS HERE AND TALK ABOUT THEM

I see, what would be your favorite type of system for an MMO

I don't see, Go around and tell people that system is impossible just because you don't know how to do it. What if they happen to know how to do it? Just because you can't think out of the box doesn't mean they can't.

You're saying something... on the internet... and you freak out when people tell you why it's impractical or impossible. On the internet. Hold on, my common sense is tingling.

In my ideal game, the players would have 0 menus... and I don't know why you'd have this in a game, but 0 programming as well. And don't try saying, so you're not going to program the game because read the sentence and notice I Said *PLAYERS*. Not once did I say dev. I figure someone would have said that if I didn't add that tidbit.

And that can all really be practically accomplished with just keyboards and computer mice. Kill yourself and hope for reincarnation.

Now, for your finishing statement. Why do you think there are so many social functions in MMOs?????

Because otherwise they would just be Os. People play MMOs to socialize, not work their asses off for "fun".

..... What do you think is the real point of an RPG..

If you can't figure it out, let me spell it out for you

Role Playing Game

Wait, let me do that again, but this time in bold

Role Playing Game

Are you telling me that you shouldn't be RolePlaying in a *Role Playing* Game and that you should just join a Role Playing Forum (which are a direct result of no RolePlaying Games having that detail that some people really want).

Wait, let me recap that

Roleplaying Forums are just a result of the fact that Role Playing Games or Massive Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Games don't have the detail some people want.

I thought every single role-player knew there's a huge difference between RPs and the standard RPGs.

I'm.. not even going to respond... Why do you think I'm making a game. Wait, before you respond, no, it's not because I want to own a magical horsey.

I don't think you're making a game, I'm telling you why your magical fantasy game is never going to happen.

Uh... let me spell it out one more time..

Roleplaying Forums are just a result of the fact that Role Playing Games or Massive Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Games don't have the detail some people want.

Yea.....

Again, huge difference between RPs and RPGs. The main games in the Final Fantasy series are all RPGs, and do you RP in them? Yes. Are they completely open-ended like you want? No. You don't even customize anything past your character's class and equipment.

 

[Nestharus]

I deleted this post because your last post was so bad that this one gotta pretty harsh ;p... nvm

: ) moving on ^^

And um... you shouldn't enter debates like this... I'm embarrassed for you ><... when I first read your post, I was shocked that someone would actually write that o-o.

This statement is probably my favorite...

Jesus Christ, if you're making your own anything you need to code it in or go through menus that have been coded in. You can't just fucking think at it and have it appear

Especially when I said this...

In my ideal game, the players would have 0 menus... and I don't know why you'd have this in a game, but 0 programming as well. And don't try saying, so you're not going to program the game because read the sentence and notice I Said *PLAYERS*. Not once did I say dev. I figure someone would have said that if I didn't add that tidbit.

lol.... there are many other statements in your post like that... and if they aren't like this, they're talking about the rise in prices of Green Tea in China with the decline of Penguins in Antarctica... they really have nothing to do with each other.. I'm not going to bring up an example because you might be more embarrassed, but yea ^_^. Just letting you know : p

 

[Teh_Ephy]

I deleted this post because your last post was so bad that this one gotta pretty harsh ;p... nvm

: ) moving on ^^

And um... you shouldn't enter debates like this... I'm embarrassed for you ><... when I first read your post, I was shocked that someone would actually write that o-o.

No wonder you don't believe that MMO players are mostly asshole PKs. There is also a report post button if you think that. Btw, I'll admit I'm being a bit (and only a bit) harsher than you deserve, but it's not like you didn't know at least some of this was coming.

This statement is probably my favorite...

Especially when I said this...

Yeah, a player can't just think at a game and have their completely-custom hero or weapon pop out of nowhere. The most efficient way of doing that is either creation through menus or coding it in, or else you're going to end up with something you don't necessarily want or need.

lol.... there are many other statements in your post like that... and if they aren't like this, they're talking about the rise in prices of Green Tea in China with the decline of Penguins in Antarctica... they really have nothing to do with each other.. I'm not going to bring up an example because you might be more embarrassed, but yea ^_^. Just letting you know : p

Everything I said was a direct response to the quote above it; read into it a little harder if you don't see how. Also, if you don't bring up any examples, I have absolutely no reason to believe that I am not completely and totally right and that you don't deserve to be insulted ^_^. Just letting you know : p

 

[Nestharus]

I'm not saying your post was harsh, I'm saying that the comments in it should be embarrassing for you. When I read the first response, I seriously laughed and was going, wow, that person really typed that?

I showed your post to a few of my friends and they went OMG, wow, I didn't know those people existed, lol.

I mean, you just need to read because none of your comments are even... for example, another of my favorites is this (btw, I copied your post, I'm keeping it because it really is funny).

And that can all really be practically accomplished with just keyboards and computer mice. Kill yourself and hope for reincarnation.

in response to this

In my ideal game, the players would have 0 menus... and I don't know why you'd have this in a game, but 0 programming as well. And don't try saying, so you're not going to program the game because read the sentence and notice I Said *PLAYERS*. Not once did I say dev. I figure someone would have said that if I didn't add that tidbit.

I mean, that is just such a random comment, LOL. I read that and went, wth? and just started laughing. I'm just saying you should stop at this point because I don't know if you can recover from that post : p. I mean, I could completely break it up like I had originally done (the post I deleted) in which I'm making fun of you for it, but I thought that was mean which is why I deleted it.

By the way, if you still seriously don't get it (which I find hard to believe ^^), uh... lemme think of a way to explain this in very simple terms.

So I'm talking about a game without menus and you suddenly say that it's more practical to use a mouse and keyboard, which really doesn't make sense in the first place. I'm saying no menus, you're saying mouse and keyboard.

It's like I'm saying, no cup for my coffee, and you're saying you need a mouth, lol (which really has nothing to do with the cup. Sure, you can use the mouth to drink the coffee, but in the first place, I said nothing about getting rid of the mouth or changing the mouth). This is the same exact model in simple terms to what you responded to me, and I hope you can understand now how funny it is ^_^. What do keyboards and mice have to do with menus anyways (just like the mouth)? Lol, are they going to magically make them (is the mouth going to hold the coffee?). Sure, they're input devices (sure, the mouth can take in the coffee) and they can be used to go through menus (and it can be used to drink the coffee), but we weren't talking about that were we (but we weren't even talking about how to drink a coffee were we? We were talking about whether we wanted a cup or not, lol) : p. Lol, seriously man, = D. And your other comments aren't any better. That first one is still my absolute fav though, lol. Either that, or you're totally not getting your point across and you're saying things that you don't mean to say, in which case, I suggest you read over what you wrote to see what you actually said ^_^.

I really do think it's a funny post, and I am keeping it like I said : D.

But can we get back on topic please ; ). I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on what their favorite systems running an MMORPG would be : D, like their dream game ^_^.

 

[Matt1965]

HOLY SHIT...phew
finally got through the entire chain of posts..nes you type alot
Maybe thats why your not getting many replies..no wonder.
If i were in this game id prolly hire a few npcs or people to farm for me and id build a strong house with beds and such and open a tavern. so id have food and make money off of people staying there for food and protection. from there id prolly dig a basement and making awesome weapons.
If you getting this realistic why not make you start as a kid ffs? lol..
nah thats too much..
Ephy i must say you are quite stupid. this is what hes doing. hes applying highly advanced physics to a lifelike enviroment. you dont program anything. you dig up the ground, which is made up of particals, and find metal. then you take that raw metal and litterally fucking carry it to a a really hot oven and you smelt it. then you litterally fucking take a hammer and beat on it moving those particals to get it into the shape you want. Then you can litterally fucking take jewels and stuff and put it into the shield. then litterally fucking take a chisel and make designs and what now.
His entire game is balanced through real peoples actions, proven by history itself.
every time you describe a situation you end at its worst possible spot. you never relize that after that happens other things happen, all real things are in a constant state of flux. the cycle of ice age, global warming. the stages of summer, winter, ect. the flux of empires rising and falling, taking the mayans and aztecs for example. and you end every fucking example with "they died" instead of " a new, greater empire was born in their ashes "

im done typing for now..

 

[Teh_Ephy]

I mean, you just need to read because none of your comments are even... for example, another of my favorites is this (btw, I copied your post, I'm keeping it because it really is funny).

in response to this

And that's exactly what I mean. It's impractical and unwieldy to mimic the actual forging process with even a Wii-mote, and then the Wii-mote is only so accurate. Even then, the way you describe it a player would need to know almost exactly what they're doing to get even close to what they want, and that applies to more than just weapons. If you really want to be working so much for your "fun" when you don't even know the percentage chance of it working right, kill yourself and hope for reincarnation into your magical fantasy world. Which, by the way, I've told you in three separate posts. It should have made sense if you read into it a little harder.

I mean, that is just such a random comment, LOL. I read that and went, wth? and just started laughing. I'm just saying you should stop at this point because I don't know if you can recover from that post : p. I mean, I could completely break it up like I had originally done (the post I deleted) in which I'm making fun of you for it, but I thought that was mean which is why I deleted it.

Go back and do that, I'd make better progress telling you off.

By the way, if you still seriously don't get it (which I find hard to believe ^^), uh... lemme think of a way to explain this in very simple terms.

So I'm talking about a game without menus and you suddenly say that it's more practical to use a mouse and keyboard, which really doesn't make sense in the first place. I'm saying no menus, you're saying mouse and keyboard.

The only way to eliminate menus is to physically emulate the desired actions. Aside from the fact that most people would jump from "Wow, cool" to "Wow, lame" in a matter of minutes, it is not practical with only a keyboard and mouse. Don't even talk about controllers, control-sticks sacrifice a lot of precision for intuition. Again, read a little harder into it, I'm saying you'd need more than a keyboard and mouse.

It's like I'm saying, no cup for my coffee, and you're saying you need a mouth, lol (which really has nothing to do with the cup. Sure, you can use the mouth to drink the coffee, but in the first place, I said nothing about getting rid of the mouth or changing the mouth). This is the same exact model in simple terms to what you responded to me, and I hope you can understand now how funny it is ^_^. What do keyboards and mice have to do with menus anyways (just like the mouth)? Lol, are they going to magically make them (is the mouth going to hold the coffee?). Sure, they're input devices (sure, the mouth can take in the coffee) and they can be used to go through menus (and it can be used to drink the coffee), but we weren't talking about that were we (but we weren't even talking about how to drink a coffee were we? We were talking about whether we wanted a cup or not, lol) : p. Lol, seriously man, = D. And your other comments aren't any better. That first one is still my absolute fav though, lol. Either that, or you're totally not getting your point across and you're saying things that you don't mean to say, in which case, I suggest you read over what you wrote to see what you actually said ^_^.

I suggest you read over what I wrote to see what I actually said. You're making all sorts of random organisational leaps in your posts, I'd assume you'd be able to follow when other people make comparably sized ones.

But can we get back on topic please ; ). I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on what their favorite systems running an MMORPG would be : D, like their dream game ^_^.

Aside from the fact that it's massively imbalanced, I like Zero Online's Potency system for PvP. It's basically set up so that it isn't what level your gear is, but the quality the gear is. A well-equipped level 100 could easily take on a poorly equipped level 140.

HOLY SHIT...phew
finally got through the entire chain of posts..nes you type alot
Maybe thats why your not getting many replies..no wonder.
If i were in this game id prolly hire a few npcs or people to farm for me and id build a strong house with beds and such and open a tavern. so id have food and make money off of people staying there for food and protection.

Where do you get the money to do that? Also, if we're going by Nestharus' rules you'd need to get yourself a saw, you'd need to saw the wood for the tavern (let's assume you buy the beds, sheets, etc.), and you'd need to build it in real-time (probably hire people/NPCs to help build it), probably in some sort of retarded carpenter sim if everything is as close to real-life as forging weapons.

Ephy i must say you are quite stupid. this is what hes doing. hes applying highly advanced physics to a lifelike enviroment. you dont program anything. you dig up the ground, which is made up of particals, and find metal. then you take that raw metal and litterally fucking carry it to a a really hot oven and you smelt it. then you litterally fucking take a hammer and beat on it moving those particals to get it into the shape you want. Then you can litterally fucking take jewels and stuff and put it into the shield. then litterally fucking take a chisel and make designs and what now.
His entire game is balanced through real peoples actions, proven by history itself.

That isn't PvP, and I'm not saying that that part of it is imbalanced, which it is physically impossible for it to be. Aside from the above of unwieldy, inaccurate, etc. it's a monotonous gimmick, which would again require a hell of a lot more than a mouse and keyboard to be done effectively. Also lol, all that back-and-forth between Nestarus and me (mostly me) and you're the closest person to get reported for flaming.

every time you describe a situation you end at its worst possible spot. you never relize that after that happens other things happen, all real things are in a constant state of flux. the cycle of ice age, global warming. the stages of summer, winter, ect. the flux of empires rising and falling, taking the mayans and aztecs for example. and you end every fucking example with "they died" instead of " a new, greater empire was born in their ashes "

I end with the worst-case scenario because if your software isn't prepared to handle the worst-case scenario you'd better prepare it more. Also, my worst case scenario is not that they died, it's that they never had the resources to get there in the first place.

 

[jadegolem]

I would say, a WASD move, E for Action Key, Mouse to aim n hit/shoot bow, and so right click to use spell and mouse scroll for CHOOSE SPELL ! no target! you click to hit note there is a small cooldown so dont spam like dota WTF?

 

[Matt1965]

reported for flaming? are you serius? he asked u specifically. multiple times, this thread is not for criticism. i cussed a lot so your and your pebble size brain could understand it. if anything i should be reporting you right now

do us all a favor and stop posting replies ephy

 

[Nestharus]

JadeGolem, that sounds pretty awesome : D. That's generally a standard for many newgen MMORPG/RPG games. It's called a twitch type design and is mostly found in FPS games ^_^.

----------------------

Matt, I'm sorry to say, but according to the forum rules, he's allowed to criticize. What I've said is it's pretty disrespectful and not really welcome.

----------------------

And ephy, at this point you're flipping back and forth.

I said 0 menus

You said you can do it practically with a keyboard and a mouse.

Yes, you're finally getting what I'm saying about 0 menus, good job : ), but you say it'd be a dumb idea, and I happen to disagree, which is totally fine. We can have our differences.

You shoot for classic RPG/MMORPGs

I shoot for next gen RPGs/MMORPGs

That's fine, sharing your opinions is also fine, and I have the right to defend myself if I want to, but the point is you attacked me and criticized me directly as well as my ideas. You didn't express them as opinions, you just called me stupid, you called my ideas stupid, and you said it was impossible and that I needed to just go die and hopefully get reincarnated in a fantasy world. Normally, people would get really pissed off by this. It's very disrespectful, it's very negative, and it's like a direct attack on others.

Please, if you have opinions, express them as opinions from now on. It's never good to just attack people, say they're wrong, and call them idiots. I've had patience for now, I've listened, and I had a little debate with you (to which your organization quickly fell apart, but I'm not even going to go into that), but I'm really getting fed up with this.

Please stop...

 

[Teh_Ephy]

reported for flaming? are you serius? he asked u specifically. multiple times, this thread is not for criticism. i cussed a lot so your and your pebble size brain could understand it. if anything i should be reporting you right now

Probably, and it was also a joke aside from the fact that you don't seem to know what flaming is. As it is, now you're just trolling, and I'm definitely reporting you. And you're calling me out for being off-topic, and you didn't even reply to what I'd said about MMOs. Put a little more effort into it when you try to make people make themselves look retarded, it can backfire horribly.

P.S: I've replied multiple times that it's ridiculous sharing your ideas on the internet if you don't want anyone's input or criticism. I'll add on that you don't tell your friends an interesting idea if you don't want their opinions on it, why would you expect better of strangers with no obligations of politeness?
P.P.S: This post tells me that you are very obviously a white twelve-year-old. Put just a bit more effort into "cussing a lot", all you do by spamming fuck over and over is let everyone know that you don't have a clue.

Matt, I'm sorry to say, but according to the forum rules, he's allowed to criticize. What you've said is it's pretty disrespectful and not really welcome.

Fixed, because you've been pretty civil.

I said 0 menus

You said you can do it practically with a keyboard and a mouse.

Yes, you're finally getting what I'm saying about 0 menus, good job : ), but you say it'd be a dumb idea, and I happen to disagree, which is totally fine. We can have our differences.

I don't need your condescension, I've always understood what you meant, and I've been saying it's a bad idea. I also said it's impractical with a keyboard and a mouse. If someone is obviously irate, they are also obviously being sarcastic when they agree with you.

You shoot for classic RPG/MMORPGs

I shoot for next gen RPGs/MMORPGs

Being able to customize your entire character instead of just his/her equipment isn't any closer to real RPing than older RPGs were.

That's fine, sharing your opinions is also fine, and I have the right to defend myself if I want to, but the point is you attacked me and criticized me directly as well as my ideas. You didn't express them as opinions, you just called me stupid, you called my ideas stupid, and you said it was impossible and that I needed to just go die and hopefully get reincarnated in a fantasy world. Normally, people would get really pissed off by this. It's very disrespectful, it's very negative, and it's like a direct attack on others.

Please, if you have opinions, express them as opinions from now on. It's never good to just attack people, say they're wrong, and call them idiots. I've had patience for now, I've listened, and I had a little debate with you (to which your organization quickly fell apart, but I'm not even going to go into that), but I'm really getting fed up with this.

Please stop...

Okay, one last thing and then agree to disagree. I have an enormous amount of respect for your patience, but none whatsoever for your sense of what is practical and what is not. Your ideas, while admittedly initially cool, quickly become tedious gimmicks that do not work. Let's not look at anything but the forging of weapons: What do you hit it with; what's the composition of the hammer, the weight, the shape, the size of the striking surface? How do you hit it; what angle is the hammer compared to the weapon, how hard are you hitting it? That sort of complexity does not fucking work in computer simulations, and you, as far as I can tell, want to apply that ridiculous scrutiny to everything. That will not happen; it will be hard to develop, and it will sell to a hugely limited audience. You can look at what you want in a videogame from a player's perspective, but to look at what is plausible to implement you need to look at it from a developer's point of view.

 

[Matt1965]

Listen...
im not trying to be mature..actually i was trying to be about as immature as i could possibly be. you dont judge people like that...ever.
we asked you nicly to please stop and you didnt...so we got mad
whats that say about you?
you took a nice conversation about what would be really cool and turned it
into this pathetic fight that is serving no use.
This was a Dream MMO. not a plausible MMO.
Were actually creating a part of it that is 100% plausible

so im going to ask you one more time...
just...stop

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Listen...
im not trying to be mature..actually i was trying to be about as immature as i could possibly be. you dont judge people like that...ever.

Oh, well now that I have something better to judge you by, my opinion of you is worse. Does it hurt because it's true? Please, tell me exactly what was going through your head when you thought that immaturity could move this discussion in a more mature direction.

we asked you nicly to please stop and you didnt...so we got mad

Nestharus asked nicely for me to stop. You have insulted me twice.

whats that say about you?

That there's a lot of people that would use the word bitch to describe me? Get over it, I did several years ago.

you took a nice conversation about what would be really cool and turned it
into this pathetic fight that is serving no use.
This was a Dream MMO. not a plausible MMO.
Were actually creating a part of it that is 100% plausible

so im going to ask you one more time...
please...
Please stop ...

Jesus Christ... Okay, unlike Nestharus, I am going to point out your inconsistencies for the betterment of your persuasive and debating abilities. First, I made the conversation an aggravated one, and only on my part. Second, you are the one that completely derailed the thread. If you'll notice (this goes with the first and second points), all of my previous posts were about why something about Nestharus' ideas was stupid or impractical, whereas your last two posts have had nothing to do with MMOs at all. The attention whore in me appreciates it, the hypocrite-hater in me does not. Finally, the first post mentions the past and present, and how people are looking for more; it then mentions possible alternatives. That implies more than enough an aspect of plausibility that it does not need to be stated outright, aside from the fact that it mentions that Nestharus may be using ideas for an actual game.

P.S: Nestharus, I saw something in the first post about it being deeply immersible for role-players. That throws a couple (but not enough) of my points out the window. I'm sorry, and this is not the first time I've gotten into a long argument with something like that staring me in the face either. Also, if I was thinking you were making a game, which I should have been, I would have had every right to think so because you said some of these ideas might go into a real game you're making. On that note, it should involve random abusive NPCs that you can't just deal with by ignoring. How's that for realistic ?

P.P.S: Sorry for the massive thread-jack.

 

[Nestharus]

At least everyone's ok now and we can start talking about our dream MMO's again and build on each other's ideas.

You pointed out great points that it would be very impractical to use a mouse and a keyboard for my ideas. I whole heartedly agree = ). As to the wii-motes, I'm really hoping to use my own device that's a *bit* more accurate ; ). Maybe +-7g, that'll def be accurate enough to see my ideas through.

Now, you are really right in saying that with all the scrutiny it would be adding a lot of things some people might not really be interested in doing, but well, there are lots of people in the world. I mean, I myself, would not be into making swords, but I myself would be into making very fast ships ^_^. It's really what people are into. Some things I look at that might go into this game I'd be like, who would actually do that . But the simple fact is that there are lots of people in the world, and just because I might not like it wouldn't necessarily mean that nobody would. It's better to have it in that not to have it in.

Today I was pondering about spell casting and I decided that there has to be a set of laws for spell casting, just like there is a set of laws for physics. This would mean that players in the game could make their very own spells (pretty cool huh). I would honestly be into that because I think magic is cool : D. As for the ideas on what types of laws magic might have, I'm so far at a loss because this is very different from your traditional games : ).

Currently, I've already devised that magic can come from a few places. One place it can come from is the power of beings (these usually being extremely power god like beings referred to as gods), from within (warlocks?), from a set of beings (something like necromancy, I don't know). I mean, this idea is in its very draft stages.

So first, what do you think of creating your own spells using the various laws in the arts of magic.

What different laws of magic do you think there should be? How does magic counter other magic (like protection against fire etc) = ). See, the only real way I can see doing magic the way I really want to do it is by turning it into a very sweet looking science. People playing mages and what not would have to learn these laws and so on. I just think it would be so cool : D.

It's like, you go to the mage guild and take classes within the guild on magic O-o. And how would this magic change melee fighting and ranged fighting O-o.

It's just really fun to think about : ).

Now, back to the intense detail of this dream MMO, there is a counter measure for a lot of it. An example... in a combat system, if you are fighting against someone that is of much lower skill than you, it's going to be a very, very quick fight (faster than the traditional combat systems). If you are some super warrior and you are in a land filled with monsters and you really don't want to stop and fight each one, you probably have the skill to just tear through them and create carnage.

When it comes to making swords and weapons, if you are making extremely good swords and what not, then yes, that is going to take a lot of concentration, time, and care, but quality is money. Who says every sword you make has to be super good = ). You're always worrying about the angle and so on, but that's the same with anything you initially go into. After you get used to it, it'll be easy for you to whip out a few swords.

As for building things (like houses and what not)... those would really be true projects and you'd probably be working with a team. And think about it.. wouldn't building a house be like solving one huge puzzle. This piece goes here, that piece goes there, etc. What would be cool is a guild that wanted its own private city : ). It might take 2-3 months to make it with a guild of 60 members where everyone puts 4 hours of work in a day, but, it'd really be cool to say, Yea, My guild Is Really Tight. You know, we got our own city ; D. I bet your guild doesn't have that now does it. You work out of the sewers of that one city don't you .

Also, the beauty of this game is that you can do whatever you want to do. Nothing is holding you back ^_^. Sure, certain fields are a bit more dangerous, but eh : D. I don't see how anyone would suffer unless they forced themselves to do something they really didn't want to do.

And also, by the way, I myself, would love to master the combat system for both spells and melee fighting. I find the idea of making spells and so on just really awesome : D, and then maybe selling those spells? Teaching those spells? Creating magic scrolls imbued with those spells? You just get into a whole list of things you can do for each field.

And really, if nobody wants to do something (like building houses), they can always hire NPCs. The NPCs are there so that the players are entering a world that's already big and so on, and they're also there to do tasks that no players want to do. Sure a % would do tasks that everyone loves, but if nobody wanted to be a merchant, or go into politics, or various other things, the NPCs would be there : D.

Oh well, those are just my own thoughts and opinions ; P.

Now, about that magic

 

[Mecheon]

You pointed out great points that it would be very impractical to use a mouse and a keyboard for my ideas. I whole heartedly agree = ). As to the wii-motes, I'm really hoping to use my own device that's a *bit* more accurate ; ). Maybe +-7g, that'll def be accurate enough to see my ideas through.

You're not only asking for something in the far future, you're asking for something that'd play better offline

Now, you are really right in saying that with all the scrutiny it would be adding a lot of things some people might not really be interested in doing, but well, there are lots of people in the world. I mean, I myself, would not be into making swords, but I myself would be into making very fast ships ^_^. It's really what people are into. Some things I look at that might go into this game I'd be like, who would actually do that . But the simple fact is that there are lots of people in the world, and just because I might not like it wouldn't necessarily mean that nobody would. It's better to have it in that not to have it in.

People are impatient. While the ability to have stuff made overnight for you is nice, there's still the fact they want results as soon as possible

Today I was pondering about spell casting and I decided that there has to be a set of laws for spell casting, just like there is a set of laws for physics. This would mean that players in the game could make their very own spells (pretty cool huh). I would honestly be into that because I think magic is cool : D. As for the ideas on what types of laws magic might have, I'm so far at a loss because this is very different from your traditional games : ).

Y'know that people would just use this to make apocalyptic spells of destruction to wipe out entire cities, effectively unbalancing the entire thing?

Also, the beauty of this game is that you can do whatever you want to do. Nothing is holding you back ^_^. Sure, certain fields are a bit more dangerous, but eh : D. I don't see how anyone would suffer unless they forced themselves to do something they really didn't want to do.

The massive time constraints scaring away casual players might. Not everyone wants to spend their days watching virtual stuff happen when they can, y'know, do it in the real world

Fun fact: Some game was made once, with interactive environments and such that did stuff depending on the player's doing things. The players? They destroyed them all, rampaging across places like a virus. They'll be more like barbarian hordes than developers, and so help you, nothing you can do is going to make slowly building swords and armor sound more attractive than just destroying some cities to pillage the swords and armor from their ruins

 

[Gilles]

TL;DR.

Just going to mention Fable. I'd love to see a combat system like that somehow intorduced into an MMO. Of course there would have to be major tweaks (ie. rolling), but the general idea and feel of it would be awesome.

 

[brad.dude03]

Fable is almost hack and slash in it's combat. Great for single player, maybe not the best for an MMO.

 

[Gilles]

Fable is almost hack and slash in it's combat. Great for single player, maybe not the best for an MMO.

We haven't seen a quality hack and slash MMO yet, but we will, and I don't think it'll be long.

What about a fighting MMO? Street Fighter style.

 

[brad.dude03]

Neither of those can work.

Especially fighting, since most of it is just button mashing. Like you'd definetly need long cooldowns to make it so that you can't just mash your way through.

but it might work... I guess.

And hack and slash sort of takes away the point of PVP. It might work in PVE stuff, but for PVP it would just get dull.

 

[Nestharus]

^_^

Ok, so here's what I'm seeing people would love to see in an MMO so far-

Combat System-
Hack and Slash
Button Mashing
Auto Attack
Turn-Based

anything else other than combat systems? : D

 

[AirHead]

Okay, I think the biggest milestones in online massive gaming will be:
1: Invisible stats. Imagine if strength wasn't measured by a number but by how much you can do (obviously it would have a number but it would not be seen).
2: Permanent death. This was suggested earlier only to be knocked down, but think about it, sure PKs would exist, but that would be what makes the game interesting. Also, assuming that you did get attacked by a bunch of guys, they would be dead if you killed them as well, if you wouldn't do something, not many others will either.
3: No NPC quests. What if the NPCs didn't have quests but players were the ones who gave the quests.
4: Environmental control. What if you could dig a trench open a river into it and flood an opposing city, or carve a mountain side like the face of a great leader, enough said.
5: Destructable... everything. If building castles carts and everything else was able to be destroyed.
6: Free killing. If any single person could just run to another person and kill him, no matter his race, class, faction, or clan/guild.

With these things, yes, it would be chaotic at first but would pay off greatly in the long run.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

1: Invisible stats. Imagine if strength wasn't measured by a number but by how much you can do (obviously it would have a number but it would not be seen).

Maybe for single-player games, but that would be horrible. You'd never know what you were good at until you tried everything out.

2: Permanent death. This was suggested earlier only to be knocked down, but think about it, sure PKs would exist, but that would be what makes the game interesting. Also, assuming that you did get attacked by a bunch of guys, they would be dead if you killed them as well, if you wouldn't do something, not many others will either.

That makes Mecheon's situation a hundred times worse. Nobody would buy the game after the first few months. The servers would easily be dead within a year. I told this to Nestharus, I'll tell it to you: that idea is completely retarded.

3: No NPC quests. What if the NPCs didn't have quests but players were the ones who gave the quests.

That happens anyways? PKKs help people against PKs, people sell things, people buy things, etc.

4: Environmental control. What if you could dig a trench open a river into it and flood an opposing city, or carve a mountain side like the face of a great leader, enough said.

That would get outrageously hard to keep track of, but it's an interesting idea.

5: Destructable... everything. If building castles carts and everything else was able to be destroyed.

Mecheon gave an example why this was a bad idea.

6: Free killing. If any single person could just run to another person and kill him, no matter his race, class, faction, or clan/guild.

Er, that already happens? Play some MMOs that aren't faction-based. You can still kill people in your own clan/guild if none of the rest of the clan/guild brings the hammer down on you.

With these things, yes, it would be chaotic at first but would pay off greatly in the long run.

There would be no long run because there would be no new players. The people that ran around killing everyone would get perfect everything and leave, but the game would be written off as a disaster by then.

 

[Nestharus]

ephy, you obviously didn't hear me the first time......

You should go start a thread on why permanent death in games is so bad if you're so opposed to it. Obviously, a lot of us aren't opposed to it and like the idea. You are opposed to it, and you know what, that's fine, but like I said, don't shove it down our throats and say, no ur wrong, u suck, ur a moron. You realize how pissed off people get? You've yet to say anything about it being your "own opinion." You're stating it like a fact and like I said, I'm really getting tired of it and I'm about ready to report you. I've asked you to stop multiple times and you keep going. I'm ok if you say it's your own opinion, because that's exactly what it is.

This is the last time I'm going to ask you politely to stop.

It's just really rude because people are just putting down ideas. You can say that you yourself don't really like them and stuff, but don't just say they plain right out suck -.-...

 

[Gilles]

Neither of those can work.

Especially fighting, since most of it is just button mashing. Like you'd definetly need long cooldowns to make it so that you can't just mash your way through.

but it might work... I guess.

And hack and slash sort of takes away the point of PVP. It might work in PVE stuff, but for PVP it would just get dull.

I was joking with the fighting. It would work, but it would be lame. You'd have to have encounters, not free roaming battles. And no, it wouldn't be a button mashing game if made well. Look at Smash Bros. The pros would kick the absolute shit out of button mashers.

For hack n' slash, if they geared the game towards PvP as well as PvE, I think it would work. Have you tried multiplayer hack n' slashes? They are almost fun, but it's just the fact that the skills aren't made for PvP that ruins it. I bet if someone tried, they could do it. Maybe not though.