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[Altered Melee] Yet another Naga Race attempt

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Eagle XI, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    His spells are:
    1. placeholderish, this should be an snare or debuff: Entangling Kelp,
    2. decided on it being an self-buff but may change: Cleaving Attack,
    3. want to change this: Hex,
    4. ultimate: Burrow Strike.
     
  2. Alok

    Alok

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    For me, the AI works when I set the 5th player to be Human.
     
  3. Alok

    Alok

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    By the way, the minimum attack force with which the Naga AI can attack is too little, it will first attack with only one hero and he will die. Look at this tutorial at part "IV. Attacking Tab" to fix that: http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=89199
     
  4. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Hm, ok, thanks.

    So ideally, one would also ask what his Attribute was ("supportive not tanky" makes me wonder if INT or maaaaybe AGI), what the other Heroes were like (Theme/Role/Attribute/spells/etc), what the rest of the *faction* was like, what the project is like (adding to /or/ replacing melee stuff?)... All to make the most informed, cohesive & synergistic suggestions. However, at that point I might as well just play the darn thing, and since I don't really have time to, this'll suffice. : )

    If you keep things the way they are, you're looking at a single-target debuff/snare, a passive attack-enhancer, [something], and a big line-DD thing? Probably looking at replacing Hex with something... well, supportive. I would think something like a nice Armor/HP boost or something; perhaps play off of the thick carapace/shell a lobster Makrura has, where he's giving a molted piece of shell as armor to his fellows.

    I might also consider some slight name changes; "Entangling Kelp" sounds too much like "Entangling Roots", but a hero-version of Ensnare/Web (ooh, that latter...) isn't a bad idea... "Kelp Snare"? "Seaweed Snare"? "Noose of Kelp"? Etc. Also "Burrow Strike" doesn't sound nearly 'ultimate' enough; maybe "Seismic Strike" (though it's not technically earth-elemental-stuff, he is going through the Earth to do it...). Also, for consistency's sake, move the passive (Cleaving Attack) to the 3rd row.

    (?) - "Makrura Dude"
    - Kelp Snare
    - Carapace Cover
    - Cleaving Attack
    - - Seismic Strike

    (I don't love that all of those are "one word - one word" in form; maybe spice it up a bit)

    However,

    If you don't mind a bit of reworking, your idea has some intriguing elements I'd consider retrofitting... If we consider a few things.

    #1, if you are doing a "melee addition", one thing to keep in mind is that No Abilities Overlap* (*Sorta). That is to say, no one but the Archmage has Blizzard; no one but the Necromancer has Cripple, etc etc. There are three "Exceptions" to that that I know of;
    1. 'themed/racial' abilities that set a tone/allow certain strategies: things like Cannibalize on Ghouls & Abominations, Shadowmeld on Archers/Huntresses/PotM's, etc
    2. abilities outside a certain 'class', though (almost) always reThemed (new name, new SFX, etc): certain things like how you can have Items with abilities identical/similar to existing Hero abilities (Janngo of Endurance/Endurance Aura, Khadgar's Pipe of Insight/Brilliance Aura, Healing Salve/Rejuvenation, Entangling Roots/Ensnare (w/ damage), etc). Turn a Unit ability into a Hero ability into a Building ability into an Item ability; that can often be a useful trick.
    3. abilities that are combinations of existing abilities (sorta): Drunken Brawler is just Critical Strike + Evasion. Spiked Carapace is just (self)Devotion Aura + (self)Thorns Aura (or just Spiked Barricades, even).
    That is all to say that you shouldn't have Hex or Cleaving Attack; even a rename would still be on a Hero so not good. But that's OK; you really didn't want them anyway! Hex is a decent 'support' ability, but Cleaving Attack is a passive attack-enhancer; an ability that says "make me fight! put me in the middle of things!"... Exactly where a support hero dares not tread, methinks. : )

    (I had a #2, but I forgot it.)

    Moreover, as cool as Burrow Strike is, I have a hard time seeing such a ground-based ability on a sea-dwelling Lobster-dude (also, if I'm thinking of the right ability, wouldn't it 'teleport' him to the cast point (i.e. the middle of battle)? Again with the tanking. : P) Not only that, but he's a support hero; let's give him a supportive ultimate!

    However, you gotta have a damage-dealing ability (not 100%, but seriously upwards of 80-90% of Heroes have at least 1 Direct Damage ability (not to mention Damage Over Time)), so let's think about this:

    (S) - Makrura Vanguard (STR but not high in it; more like the Dreadlord)
    - Crabhammer (DD & demobilizing debuff (stun?): melee-range Storm Bolt (or active-cast Bash, lol))
    - Snare of Seaweed (ranged demobilizer debuff; I'd suggest a Hero-version of Web)
    - Molt(ing) (something to allow him to survive; see below)
    - - Shell of Sanctuary (AoE super-buff, gives Armor (definitely) and HP/AS/MS/Regen/etc (maybe). There's even a way to do it that stacks with other buffs!)

    Crabhammer Self-explanatory. Solid, baseline DD with a debuff (supports allies by disabling enemies), cool name (Pokémon! : P)
    Snare of Seaweed The reason I like the idea of repurposing Web is because it's subtly different from Entangling Roots (which is just a hero-version of Ensnare, +DoT -Can Hit Air). What I don't like is that it would use the same buff as Web (no way around that AFAIK), which means I wouldn't use it (No Buff Stacking). Meh.
    Molt(ing) This one is tricky; could be either Passive, Active or somewhere in between (yep). Basically I wanted a nice 'survival' ability; nothing attack-enhancing or whatever. Thinking of how lobsters molt off their outer carapace, I thought "hey, what if he could 'molt off' enemy spells & attacks?" This could be as simple as a hero-version of Spell Shield (the item-one); actives on becoming the target of a spell & blocks it. Elegant. If not, perhaps an active ability that strips all debuffs from him & then gives him a speed/health boost (i.e. reverse Purge). Or something.
    Shell of Sanctuary "Carapace" is an infinitely better word... But I couldn't think of what would go with it ("Colossal Carapace"? "Carapace of the Gods"? "Kookie Carapace"? Lol). "Shell of Sanctuary" is... OK. But anyway, relatively simple but very easy & fun to use; would really 'seal the deal' of this guy being Support.


    So yeah. Just my $0.02. : )


    (Geez that takes so long... Why do I do this to myself. xD)
     
  5. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    Alright, there is an idea there worth a trying.

    As said, it is not a tank.

    "Blink" isnt used only to get in battles but also out of them.

    About kelp i could try it being projectile based within an cone-shaped AoE, with limit on max targets hit(like tinker's rocket barrage) each target hit with kelp will struggle to move freely, and even get movement hindered for some seconds on lvl2 and above.
     
  6. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    Thats.. even more strange.
    So it wasnt working when i had try earlier, but why ?
     
  7. Alok

    Alok

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    Well, try it again, maybe you misclicked something.
     
  8. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Cool.

    Yeaah... I caught that, and talked about it at length.

    If you're saying that that kind of ability would only be for a Tank hero... Well I suppose we'll have to disagree. Sure it makes him tougher too (though that could be fixed by simply having "Not Self" in the targets), but it's really more of an AoE support spell rather than a tanking spell.

    True, but with Blink you don't have any damage involved; nothing is 'wasted' jumping in or out of combat. A "burrow strike" ability (if I'm thinking of the same thing) does; it innately incentivizes a player to want to use it on enemies, i.e. in combat, and will naturally get him into that group of enemies, i.e. into combat.

    Hm, that make sense. I can't make that happen so I didn't think of/suggest it. : )
     
  9. Misha

    Misha

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    looks like someone going for tweaking a certain hero xD
     
  10. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    your latest cobra-like naga can fit the assassin unit idea i had, atleast im sure it will look better than hydralisk reskinned to look like naga.