[Altered Melee] Yet another Naga Race attempt

[Eagle XI]

Naga Glaive
Created by Eagle XI

Map Info:

This is an altered melee with Naga race available at round begin through faction choice
dialogue. Choose nightelf to have their UI, cursor and rallypoint. The Naga have an
expanded tech-tree. They are an amphibian race, composed of mostly high damage units,
generally lack speed, can have problems with wood income and are slower to tech upgrades.

Features:

The naga race. Otherwise its just an regular melee.

Map and gameplay changes:

-Swapped central Goblin Merchant with Bronze Dragon roost.
-Increased gold at initial bases to 15000 from 12500.
-Lowered gold at expansion points to 7500 from 12500.
-Maximum Food capped at 120.
-Upkeep set to 60+ for low and 90+ for high.
-The naga has primitive AI but dont expect it to play properly.
-Peasant and Peon speed set to 220.

Change Log:

Change Log

version initial release

Published the map into Map Development for testing

hotfix for initial release

Fixed:

• Command Aura working with ranged
• Automaton skill incorrectly summoning Misha bear

update 1

Added:

• 'Feedback' passive on Tidal Guardians
• 'Cleaving Attack' passive to Naga Myrmidon and Nautilan units, and an research to unlock it in the Spawning Pool

Removed:

• 'Cleaving attack' from Spider Crab summons

Changed:

• Naga now start vith 3 naga spawn and 1 slave wagon
• Naga Spawn no longer harvest lumber
• Slave wagon no longer requires Tide Ziggurat
• Lowered Hydra regeneration rate to 5.00 from 10.00
• 'Improved Hydra Tail-fins' upgrade renamed into 'Hydra Regrowth', no longer gives movespeed bonus, gives +2.50 health regeneration instead
• Hydras can no longer reincarnate but split into 2 Hydra Hatchlings upon death
• renamed Snap Dragon into Snap Drake
• renamed Sea Drake into Storm Dragon
• Fixed button positions of Naga Enchanter, Snap Drake, Naga Myrmidon in the command card
• Spider crab summon health reduced to 450 from 600, base damage changed to 22 from 18
• Given 150 Manapool for Hydra units, with 25 initial mana
• Felfire Breath on Hydras now requires 125 mana to cast
• Felfire Breath maximum range reduced
• Hydra Hatchling benefits from damage and armor upgrades of parent unit

update 2

Fixed:

• Color tinting of Snap Drakes so they are blue
• Barricade ward item not functioning correctly
• Poison buff appearing as Strong Poison before upgrade
• Prequisites of 'Cleaving Attacks' and 'Taunt' researches not including prequisites of the unit they are for
• 'Cleaving Attacks' research hot key set to V
• 'Burrow Charge' ultimate not requiring lvl 6
• 'Poison arrows' skill on Sea witch hero not draining 9 mana with each shot fired

Changed:

• Changed spell-fx of Nazjatar gate teleportation
• Flare gun item ability cast range down to 1200 from entire map
• Flare gun item number of charges dropped to 2 from 3
• Barricade ward item number of charges increased to 3 from 2
• Re-named 'Cleaving Tridents' into 'Cleaving Attacks'
• Enchanted Vial item now requires an Coral Bank to be built
• Enchanted Vial item charges dropped to 3 from 5
• Enchanted Vial item price dropped to 350g from 450g
• Snap Drake attack range up to 650 from 550
• Swapped 'Monsoon' skill with 'Evasion' on Sea Witch

Credits:

Credits list:

Models:

• AndrewOverload519
• Tarrasque
• Ujimasa Hojo
• PROXY
• kellym0
• armel
• LiOneSS
• Callahan
• Misha
• Fan

Icons:

• HandCLAW
• AndrewOverload519
• Tarrasque
• Morbent
• Darkfang
• Ujimasa Hojo
• Sin'Dorei 3000
• Mr.Goblin
• CRAZYRUSSIAN
• Ginufe
• Golden-Drake
• bigapple90

Systems:

• Spellbound
• Tank-Commander
• Mephestrial

Spells:

• Andreszej

UI:

• viiva
• AlienAtSystem

original Map:

• Blizzard Entertainment

Author's notes:

AI cant use the Slave Wagon, cant link Nazjatar Gates and possibly never uses the Makrura hero.
Im deeply sorry if i happent to use your resource but you did not find yourself listed amongst the credits.
If that happens to be the case simply message me and i will fix it.

Map Description Template Created by -Kobas-
Find more here: Map Description - Templates

 

[Eagle XI]

-reserv-
The map is attached to main post.
I realize there is no screenshots, so supply me some if you would like to.
Everything inside can become subject to change if deemed necessary.
The reason im sharing this is to get feedback, this includes but is not limited to:
-how the naga race fares in combat against others.
-if there are any bugs, errors, etc.

-just updated 1-

-just updated 2-
'Evasion' is placeholder of sorts, i just have to think of an passive that would be definitely witchcraft.
Need to find something else than 'Hex' to be put as second skill on Makrura hero.
The Spider Crab summon is sort of useless,so im thinking of turning it into an supportive summon, sorts of an healer.

 

[KILLCIDE]

I love the Naga! I shall try this out later You should add screenshots displaying the units and structures!

 

[Eagle XI]

To the 10 people(assuming those are actually different people) that happent to download this:
would you have anything to report by now ?

 

[MogulKahn]

Some screenshots wouldn't hurt!

 

[GhostThruster]

well i just briefly went over the techtree, and my thoughts basically boil down to:
1. some good ideas, but lacking in polish
2. too many units
3. you can't kill the hydra lol

indepth report;
- slave wagons are cool, but i don't see why you can't just make them available t1 and remove lumber harvesting from naga spawns. otherwise, it's just needless overlap
- every unit had cool abilities that fit their roles, but it feels like you've stretched out certain roles and needlessly expanded them into multiple units. biggest example: myrmidons, sea giants and nautilans. the differences between the three are enough for 2 of them to co-exist, but not all 3
- button position of snap dragon should be swapped between it and the myrmidon
- items are a bit uninspired, and some of them don't really fit with the naga theme (crate and goblin night scope, for instance)
- balance wise, aside from the obvious hydra bug, every category seems ticked. you got all unit roles filled, including detectors & anti-magic, and hero abilities seem diverse and balanced enough. i can't test the power of all your units without playing a lot of games against someone of similar skill, but on the surface everything seems alright

sidenote:
this race and your blood elf one share a lot of ideas that i had about such races for a map i'm in the process of starting. speaking of which...

....

hello old friend, hope you still remember me :3 i'm developing a map that will be somewhat familiar to you

 

[Eagle XI]

1. some good ideas, but lacking in polish

Yepp, thanks for commenting so i can become busy with the actual polish.

2. too many units

Strange, i thought it to be around the same number as default races, ok may have an extra. The default Naga in campaign have too few units.

3. you can't kill the hydra lol

Then it shall be hit with the nerf hammer real hard!
I will take away its phoenix re-incarnation mechanic, restoring the default split on death into 2 smaller passive.
Additionaly plan to reduce its default regen value and tie some of it as an increase into the hydra tail upgrade.
Id like to hear your thoughts if speed increase given by the upgrade should stay, or should it be redesigned to become an +hp regen upgrade only.
How was the strength of Hydra's breath ability ? should it be nerfed damage wise or get increased cooldown ?

- slave wagons are cool, but i don't see why you can't just make them available t1 and remove lumber harvesting from naga spawns.

I can do this, in that case the Naga will be starting with 4 naga spawn and 1 slave wagon.
Original idea is that you pay 150g to build an structure named Turtle Lair and that enables training of the turtles, and the slave wagon costs only gold but they still trained at the main-building.
The idea came into being as it is now because couldnt find where have left the turtle lair building model, so was kinda forced to tie into Tide Ziggurat, which costs lumber. Did not want the player have the risk of accidentally running out of lumber due to build order 'mistake', and dont know how Ai would react to having it as an lumber worker, so spawns did end up having kept lumber gathering.
Meanwhile have found it again so can restore the original idea.

- every unit had cool abilities that fit their roles, but it feels like you've stretched out certain roles and needlessly expanded them into multiple units. biggest example: myrmidons, sea giants and nautilans. the differences between the three are enough for 2 of them to co-exist, but not all 3

There will be an change to the Submerge ability, allowing submerged to regenerate faster to an extent, but lower than Burrowed. Maybe thats going to help with rendering the Myrmidon more distinct.
The Nautilan is an rushed, placeholderish idea. Originally the second unit type that comes out of the Nazjatar gate was supposed to be an fast moving, fragile hardhitting assassin type, Dark Templar rip-off unit named "Naga Depthstalker" that becomes invisible when in water.

- button position of snap dragon should be swapped between it and the myrmidon

Okay.

- items are a bit uninspired, and some of them don't really fit with the naga theme (crate and goblin night scope, for instance)

Agree. would like to hear your suggestions, if youd like to. Things that arent going to change: Their orb and the tier2 items that are standard across all races.
Deal with those items are that they have looted it from ships/shipwrecks, or simply have traded for it. In the case of barricades its just their random junk put to good use.
The goblin night scope is because of them being former Nightelves, Nelves have Ultrasight, Nagas hate Nelves and raid them frequently, so they would take something to see further in the dark i thought.

- balance wise, aside from the obvious hydra bug, every category seems ticked. you got all unit roles filled, including detectors & anti-magic, and hero abilities seem diverse and balanced enough.

Have thoughts about changing Monsoon on Sea witch with something else.
Royal Guard could gain something other than automaton summon as an ultimate but what could it be ? im no fan of one-click annihilates all spells.

i can't test the power of all your units without playing a lot of games against someone of similar skill, but on the surface everything seems alright.

feelguymeme.jpg

this race and your blood elf one share a lot of ideas that i had about such races for a map i'm in the process of starting.

Hey im not the type of guy that would bash on your head for using an idea. Go ahead.

Also remember to please comment on blood elf too ;p

 

[GhostThruster]

Strange, i thought it to be around the same number as default races, ok may have an extra. The default Naga in campaign have too few units.

i believe you have 3 extra units compared to the melee average. the default naga do indeed have too few, but you shouldn't overcompensate. aim to keep total unit count, including worker & excluding heroes, to 12-13

Then it shall be hit with the nerf hammer real hard! [...]

lol i didn't mean it was op, i mean there was a glitch with its phoenix morphing ability that literally prevented it from being killed.
as a general rule of thumb, you should avoid direct damage abilities like 'breath of fire' on melee units. reason being is unlike heroes, you can spam multiple normal units, and while 1 breath of fire is okay, 10 at the same time is blatantly OP

There will be an change to the Submerge ability, allowing submerged to regenerate faster to an extent, but lower than Burrowed. Maybe thats going to help with rendering the Myrmidon more distinct.
The Nautilan is an rushed, placeholderish idea. Originally the second unit type that comes out of the Nazjatar gate was supposed to be an fast moving, fragile hardhitting assassin type, Dark Templar rip-off unit named "Naga Depthstalker" that becomes invisible when in water.

regardless, they all fulfil the role of melee tanks, the myrmidon less so because it has medium armour (but then you gave it taunt...). and this is excluding the mur'gul units who are t1

Agree. would like to hear your suggestions [...] Royal Guard could gain something other than automaton summon as an ultimate but what could it be ?

well i could give you ideas, but that'd be doing the hard work for you i will say that you always should try to make the icons/abilities fit the aesthetic of the race. you could invent a crazy justification for how "because naga were once highborne and high elves were allies of the humans, the naga shop also can sell mechanical sheep" just like you did the goblin night scope, but visually & thematically the object doesn't fit the race

Hey im not the type of guy that would bash on your head for using an idea. Go ahead.

rest assured that all the ideas that are similar have been completely made up by me (i have a OneNote file started from january this year to prove it ), and some similarities are merely superficial. for example, i developed a mur'gul unit which seems like a combination of your hunter and trapper units.

responses in bold

 

[Eagle XI]

the myrmidon less so because it has medium armour (but then you gave it taunt...).

I didnt want to keep ensnare on it, looking at the spell animation thought he is performing an sonic ability.
Howl of Terror would be polar opposite of Roar but probably not want that spammable, there is this cutscene where a bunch of nightelves turn into naga, including Druid of Claws turning into Myrmidons(iirc, has been a while), during the nightelf campaign.
An +regeneration shout would be gimmicky, so settled on an minor version of Taunt.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Interesting. I'll have to give this a look (seriously, though, like a year from now).

 

[Misha]

I'm not sure how much of this is balanced, but i am concerned with sheer detail on spammable units, and dunno if that's just my comp, or the naga armies do make your game lag :b i suggest some heavy optimization, if possible.. also, whenever some of the units die (observed only roughly while killing enemy naga) there is some weird stretchy lines of blue that come out of nowhere.. probably near the corpse of some unit.. but i dunno which.. try finding the model bugs, so i can see if they're fixable

oh and yeah, poke me on my page

 

[Eagle XI]

also, whenever some of the units die (observed only roughly while killing enemy naga) there is some weird stretchy lines of blue that come out of nowhere.. probably near the corpse of some unit.. but i dunno which.. try finding the model bugs, so i can see if they're fixable

Hmm, thats new to me. Have to do some extensive testing, killing each unit in different ways to see when and then to which one it does happen, as had not encounter it.

----------

will have to look into the following problems:

second mainbuilding being built into mainbase despite AI having cleared expansion point earlier,
AI tries to take Murgul slave and excess naga spawn workers with him in the strike force, during formationing forces in base before going out,
AI sends one Naga spawn worker across the map to some point for some unknown purpose which i could not determine as it died walking into an thunder-lizard creep camp,

find a way to get the AI to use Slave wagon as it runs out of lumber,
see if AI could use Nazjatar Gate teleportation mechanic at all,

5th AI player was set race to Human at race selection dialogue and had no AI script running.

 

[Misha]

ah i wish i knew anything about AI..

about the the big nautilan, you probably could replace it with a 'shade-like' unit that does not attack, but serve as a scout? as much as i like to, for it i don't seem to have a fitting model of mine x3 but you could take a look? o3o

 

[Kyrbi0]

You used a form of the word "Nautilus" in your race?

<3

 

[Eagle XI]

about the the big nautilan, you probably could replace it with a 'shade-like' unit that does not attack, but serve as a scout? as much as i like to, for it i don't seem to have a fitting model of mine x3 but you could take a look? o3o

The first idea for 2. unit that will come out of the nazjatar gate was an fast moving fragile melee assassin type unit.
The tanky unit is covered 4x on this race with Myrmidon, Sea Giant, Hydra and Dragon Turtle so yeah can totally scrap the odd Nautilan.

You could help me with determining another skill than 'Hex' as an skill on the pinky Makrura hero.

 

[Misha]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/electric-web-v1-02.213141/ maybe this will work nicely, if he gets to spawn two permanent minions that he gets to 'connect' with

dunno if that stuns, damages, or if it can be reworked to auto-hex

 

[Kyrbi0]

The first idea for 2. unit that will come out of the nazjatar gate was an fast moving fragile melee assassin type unit.
The tanky unit is covered 4x on this race with Myrmidon, Sea Giant, Hydra and Dragon Turtle so yeah can totally scrap the odd Nautilan.

You could help me with determining another skill than 'Hex' as an skill on the pinky Makrura hero.

(not a big fan of Makrura in Naga races, but) What are the dude's other abilities? And what is his Theme & Role?

 

[Alok]

will have to look into the following problems:

second mainbuilding being built into mainbase despite AI having cleared expansion point earlier,
AI tries to take Murgul slave and excess naga spawn workers with him in the strike force, during formationing forces in base before going out,
AI sends one Naga spawn worker across the map to some point for some unknown purpose which i could not determine as it died walking into an thunder-lizard creep camp,
5th AI player was set race to Human at race selection dialogue and had no AI script running.

1. If that happens when the main building is upgraded, look at this: www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/how-to-create-a-full-working-custom-race.119435/page-3#post-2258865 I haven't tested that fix yet, but I have the same problem with other buildings that can upgrade, because AI must have everything that is put into building queue, so when the building gets upgraded it must rebuild it.
But if this problem doesn't happen when the main building upgrades, be sure that you didn't put another main building into a building queue and expected it would build it at the expansion. For it to build a new main building at the expansion, you don't put another main building in the building queue, not even if it is set to the expansion town, because when there is no expansion town it will build it in the main base. Instead, you need to put "Expansion Town" when you Add Priority into the queue, and it will build a main building at the expansion, and you don't need to put a new main building after it in the queue, because it will build two then. Whatever buildings you want to build in the expansion town next you need to set the priorities' "Town:" to "Expansion".

2. In the "Attacking" tab in the AI editor, click on each of the attack groups under "Attack Groups" on the left and check for each that it doesn't contain the worker unit on the right under "Units:". Or check if you didn't put an "Expansion Town" into the building queue too early before you could even clear any of the creep camps guarding the mines.

3. Trigger the melee AI script for the human computer player via the trigger command "AI - Start Melee AI Script" at map initialization. Use the If/then/else action and put under the condition "Player Controller Comparison" to computer player and set the action to "AI - Start Melee AI Script" for the player, if you want the AI script to start only if the player is computer-controlled.

 

[Eagle XI]

3. Trigger the melee AI script for the human computer player via the trigger command "AI - Start Melee AI Script" at map initialization. Use the If/then/else action and put under the condition "Player Controller Comparison" to computer player and set the action to "AI - Start Melee AI Script" for the player, if you want the AI script to start only if the player is computer-controlled.

There is an script at scenario top level controlling these, if you'd like to and are able to understand please take a look at it.

(not a big fan of Makrura in Naga races, but) What are the dude's other abilities? And what is his Theme & Role?

It is an magic infused larger specimen leading the outcasts of the makrura that hire out to naga as mercs.
He is supposed to be supportive hero rather than being tanky.

 

[Kyrbi0]

It is an magic infused larger specimen leading the outcasts of the makrura that hire out to naga as mercs.
He is supposed to be supportive hero rather than being tanky.

Ok thanks but:

What are the dude's other abilities?

 

[Eagle XI]

His spells are:
1. placeholderish, this should be an snare or debuff: Entangling Kelp,
2. decided on it being an self-buff but may change: Cleaving Attack,
3. want to change this: Hex,
4. ultimate: Burrow Strike.

 

[Alok]

There is an script at scenario top level controlling these, if you'd like to and are able to understand please take a look at it.

For me, the AI works when I set the 5th player to be Human.

 

[Alok]

By the way, the minimum attack force with which the Naga AI can attack is too little, it will first attack with only one hero and he will die. Look at this tutorial at part "IV. Attacking Tab" to fix that: http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=89199

 

[Kyrbi0]

It is an magic infused larger specimen leading the outcasts of the makrura that hire out to naga as mercs.
He is supposed to be supportive hero rather than being tanky.

His spells are:
1. placeholderish, this should be an snare or debuff: Entangling Kelp,
2. decided on it being an self-buff but may change: Cleaving Attack,
3. want to change this: Hex,
4. ultimate: Burrow Strike.

Hm, ok, thanks.

So ideally, one would also ask what his Attribute was ("supportive not tanky" makes me wonder if INT or maaaaybe AGI), what the other Heroes were like (Theme/Role/Attribute/spells/etc), what the rest of the *faction* was like, what the project is like (adding to /or/ replacing melee stuff?)... All to make the most informed, cohesive & synergistic suggestions. However, at that point I might as well just play the darn thing, and since I don't really have time to, this'll suffice. : )

If you keep things the way they are, you're looking at a single-target debuff/snare, a passive attack-enhancer, [something], and a big line-DD thing? Probably looking at replacing Hex with something... well, supportive. I would think something like a nice Armor/HP boost or something; perhaps play off of the thick carapace/shell a lobster Makrura has, where he's giving a molted piece of shell as armor to his fellows.

I might also consider some slight name changes; "Entangling Kelp" sounds too much like "Entangling Roots", but a hero-version of Ensnare/Web (ooh, that latter...) isn't a bad idea... "Kelp Snare"? "Seaweed Snare"? "Noose of Kelp"? Etc. Also "Burrow Strike" doesn't sound nearly 'ultimate' enough; maybe "Seismic Strike" (though it's not technically earth-elemental-stuff, he is going through the Earth to do it...). Also, for consistency's sake, move the passive (Cleaving Attack) to the 3rd row.

(?) - "Makrura Dude"
- Kelp Snare
- Carapace Cover
- Cleaving Attack
- - Seismic Strike

(I don't love that all of those are "one word - one word" in form; maybe spice it up a bit)

However,

If you don't mind a bit of reworking, your idea has some intriguing elements I'd consider retrofitting... If we consider a few things.

#1, if you are doing a "melee addition", one thing to keep in mind is that No Abilities Overlap* (*Sorta). That is to say, no one but the Archmage has Blizzard; no one but the Necromancer has Cripple, etc etc. There are three "Exceptions" to that that I know of;

1. 'themed/racial' abilities that set a tone/allow certain strategies: things like Cannibalize on Ghouls & Abominations, Shadowmeld on Archers/Huntresses/PotM's, etc
2. abilities outside a certain 'class', though (almost) always reThemed (new name, new SFX, etc): certain things like how you can have Items with abilities identical/similar to existing Hero abilities (Janngo of Endurance/Endurance Aura, Khadgar's Pipe of Insight/Brilliance Aura, Healing Salve/Rejuvenation, Entangling Roots/Ensnare (w/ damage), etc). Turn a Unit ability into a Hero ability into a Building ability into an Item ability; that can often be a useful trick.
3. abilities that are combinations of existing abilities (sorta): Drunken Brawler is just Critical Strike + Evasion. Spiked Carapace is just (self)Devotion Aura + (self)Thorns Aura (or just Spiked Barricades, even).

That is all to say that you shouldn't have Hex or Cleaving Attack; even a rename would still be on a Hero so not good. But that's OK; you really didn't want them anyway! Hex is a decent 'support' ability, but Cleaving Attack is a passive attack-enhancer; an ability that says "make me fight! put me in the middle of things!"... Exactly where a support hero dares not tread, methinks. : )

(I had a #2, but I forgot it.)

Moreover, as cool as Burrow Strike is, I have a hard time seeing such a ground-based ability on a sea-dwelling Lobster-dude (also, if I'm thinking of the right ability, wouldn't it 'teleport' him to the cast point (i.e. the middle of battle)? Again with the tanking. : P) Not only that, but he's a support hero; let's give him a supportive ultimate!

However, you gotta have a damage-dealing ability (not 100%, but seriously upwards of 80-90% of Heroes have at least 1 Direct Damage ability (not to mention Damage Over Time)), so let's think about this:

(S) - Makrura Vanguard (STR but not high in it; more like the Dreadlord)
- Crabhammer (DD & demobilizing debuff (stun?): melee-range Storm Bolt (or active-cast Bash, lol))
- Snare of Seaweed (ranged demobilizer debuff; I'd suggest a Hero-version of Web)
- Molt(ing) (something to allow him to survive; see below)
- - Shell of Sanctuary (AoE super-buff, gives Armor (definitely) and HP/AS/MS/Regen/etc (maybe). There's even a way to do it that stacks with other buffs!)

Crabhammer	Self-explanatory. Solid, baseline DD with a debuff (supports allies by disabling enemies), cool name (Pokémon! : P)
Snare of Seaweed	The reason I like the idea of repurposing Web is because it's subtly different from Entangling Roots (which is just a hero-version of Ensnare, +DoT -Can Hit Air). What I don't like is that it would use the same buff as Web (no way around that AFAIK), which means I wouldn't use it (No Buff Stacking). Meh.
Molt(ing)	This one is tricky; could be either Passive, Active or somewhere in between (yep). Basically I wanted a nice 'survival' ability; nothing attack-enhancing or whatever. Thinking of how lobsters molt off their outer carapace, I thought "hey, what if he could 'molt off' enemy spells & attacks?" This could be as simple as a hero-version of Spell Shield (the item-one); actives on becoming the target of a spell & blocks it. Elegant. If not, perhaps an active ability that strips all debuffs from him & then gives him a speed/health boost (i.e. reverse Purge). Or something.
Shell of Sanctuary	"Carapace" is an infinitely better word... But I couldn't think of what would go with it ("Colossal Carapace"? "Carapace of the Gods"? "Kookie Carapace"? Lol). "Shell of Sanctuary" is... OK. But anyway, relatively simple but very easy & fun to use; would really 'seal the deal' of this guy being Support.

So yeah. Just my $0.02. : )

(Geez that takes so long... Why do I do this to myself. xD)

 

[Eagle XI]

- Molting carapace off to gain health

Alright, there is an idea there worth a trying.

- Shell of Sanctuary (AoE super-buff, gives Armor (definitely) and HP/AS/MS/Regen/etc (maybe). There's even a way to do it that stacks with other buffs!)

As said, it is not a tank.

(also, if I'm thinking of the right ability, wouldn't it 'teleport' him to the cast point (i.e. the middle of battle)?

"Blink" isnt used only to get in battles but also out of them.

About kelp i could try it being projectile based within an cone-shaped AoE, with limit on max targets hit(like tinker's rocket barrage) each target hit with kelp will struggle to move freely, and even get movement hindered for some seconds on lvl2 and above.

 

[Eagle XI]

For me, the AI works when I set the 5th player to be Human.

Thats.. even more strange.
So it wasnt working when i had try earlier, but why ?

 

[Alok]

So it wasnt working when i had try earlier, but why ?

Well, try it again, maybe you misclicked something.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Alright, there is an idea there worth a trying.

Cool.

As said, it is not a tank.

Yeaah... I caught that, and talked about it at length.

If you're saying that that kind of ability would only be for a Tank hero... Well I suppose we'll have to disagree. Sure it makes him tougher too (though that could be fixed by simply having "Not Self" in the targets), but it's really more of an AoE support spell rather than a tanking spell.

"Blink" isnt used only to get in battles but also out of them.

True, but with Blink you don't have any damage involved; nothing is 'wasted' jumping in or out of combat. A "burrow strike" ability (if I'm thinking of the same thing) does; it innately incentivizes a player to want to use it on enemies, i.e. in combat, and will naturally get him into that group of enemies, i.e. into combat.

About kelp i could try it being projectile based within an cone-shaped AoE, with limit on max targets hit(like tinker's rocket barrage) each target hit with kelp will struggle to move freely, and even get movement hindered for some seconds on lvl2 and above.

Hm, that make sense. I can't make that happen so I didn't think of/suggest it. : )

 

[Misha]

looks like someone going for tweaking a certain hero xD

 

[Eagle XI]

your latest cobra-like naga can fit the assassin unit idea i had, atleast im sure it will look better than hydralisk reskinned to look like naga.

 

[dragon69]

its freezed game every second because of this map

 

[Ravager16829]

its freezed game every second because of this map

Any altered melee maps (such as UB 2.50) are absolutely large due to the numerous objects and triggers being added, which can affect the gameplay.
I heard that, some people have encountered problems playing with AI (such as Night Elf build order being stuck with Moon Well).
If you are using 1.31, it's absolutely worse. There is a chance you'll get a poor FPS and constant crashes (memory leak issue).

 

[dragon69]

Any altered melee maps (such as UB 2.50) are absolutely large due to the numerous objects and triggers being added, which can affect the gameplay.
I heard that, some people have encountered problems playing with AI (such as Night Elf build order being stuck with Moon Well).
If you are using 1.31, it's absolutely worse. There is a chance you'll get a poor FPS and constant crashes (memory leak issue).

I need to use the old version?

 

[Ravager16829]

I need to use the old version?

WC3 Download Archive (1.00 - 1.31.1 + BETA & DEMO)

Below are lists of WC3 installation and patch downloads. Please don't share any cracked or otherwise manipulated files. This list is only intended for people who already own the game, you still need a CD-key! 1.01c 1.04c 1.10 TFT: 1.20a; 1.20e 1.23a 1.28.0; 1.28.1; 1.28.2; 1.28.3; 1.28.4...

www.hiveworkshop.com

I think the good version without bugs are 1.26 or 1.27, but 1.30.4 is really needed if you want custom campaigns.
Use the link above if you want older versions of WC3.

 

[dragon69]

WC3 Download Archive (1.00 - 1.31.1 + BETA & DEMO)

Below are lists of WC3 installation and patch downloads. Please don't share any cracked or otherwise manipulated files. This list is only intended for people who already own the game, you still need a CD-key! 1.01c 1.04c 1.10 TFT: 1.20a; 1.20e 1.23a 1.28.0; 1.28.1; 1.28.2; 1.28.3; 1.28.4...

www.hiveworkshop.com

I think the good version without bugs are 1.26 or 1.27, but 1.30.4 is really needed if you want custom campaigns.
Use the link above if you want older versions of WC3.

i hope it's won't break my saves, from the campaign.