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[Discussion] Would you be interested in working in a community project?

Would you be interested in working on the game?

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Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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You could try to come up with different arena concepts, that should be fun! :)
I'm not quite sure in what form we want to make the normal mode, same as Warlock with a circular arena surrounded by lava or something else....arena concepts are needed^^
 

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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Not quite sure what ur suggesting, if it's a way of choosing what mode to play i like it!^^
But if it's supposed to be an arena you play on like all the other ones i don't think it would work very well, can't have too large arenas in Warlock, then it's too much cat & mouse when someone is low on hp :p
 

MasterTrainer

MasterTrainer

MasterTrainer

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How about arenas with different environments (dark env. under water env. hot env. windy env.) make the gameplay differ? So each arena is different from the last?

Also a system that makes the player's character hold his/her breath for a limited time when at (for example) high altitude (for example due to the terrain or when raised up the ground because of a spell) or under water or damage the character when in (for example) lava.

If the above statement was mentioned before please tell me.
 

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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Having different environments maybe with different types of random terrain obstacles would be awesome! ;)
Effects could be like you say like water(slowing effect), sudden local wind casts(windy effect, also affecting spells maybe?), random lava spots, maybe ice like in warlock and something special like a trap or smth :p
That could be soooo coool! :D

Idk about that holding ur breath thing though :p I don't think we should add height levels, or underwater playing for that matter hehe and holding ur breath in lava doesn't work too good i'm afraid^^

Btw when it comes to trapping spells and stuff it's important that you never affect the casting, like no total freeze so you can't cast spells or move, you have to be able to dodge or atleast counter with ur own spells or it's just stupid :p
And same with slowing down the casting, that wouldn't work either, delay destroy ur aim and so easy to predict for opponent


I bet you'd come up with smth really cool morbent, i imagine smth like a hovering platform thats like a piece of the earth ripped loose with maybe some blue magical mist covering it which is like the field thats holding it up or smth.
Tried to find a reference picture but it's just in my head for now :p
Then instead of lava it could be like electrical shit around so you get shocked and maybe bounce back when someone shoot you out of the arena, idk, maybe not hehe the arena would look cool though^^

I saw Amargaards drawings too, they're rly cool! :)
It's gonna be fun to see what you guys can come up with as hero concepts for this if we get to that! ;D
 
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Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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@Foronisus I'm sorry to say that we still haven't made any descisions hehe but we now have a bunch of cool gameplay concepts to vote between though ;P http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/game-development-698/hive-project-game-suggestions-230703/ the suggestion we've been discussing most lately is the one i posted there, the Warlock one :)

@morbent An arena full of trees so any single projectile spell would be pretty much useless? Idk about that dude :p But maybe smth like a dark forest arena with just slightly more pillars/trees than normal would work ;)
I just came up with a rly cool, very special, trapping spell we could add which depending on the arena would lay down different invisible traps such as the Entangle spell in Warlock which would fit this type of arena, smth shocking for that flying arena, thick lava(slow MS + DPS) for it's fitting arena and maybe a complete freeze spell, it could work as long as the freeze don't last more than 1-2 seconds ;)
It would work like you cast a curse only it's not visible to your opponents(except your hero's cast animation) and if an opponent walks within a very small area the trap is triggered and yeah, you go for it!^^
The summoned traps should only last for like 6-10s maybe, depending on it's spell lvl, and it should have a pretty high cooldown i think :p
 
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Foronisus

Foronisus

Foronisus

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Equal

Equal

Equal

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Wow i nearly readed all that stuff ...

Comes down to just a few points:

Most want to be the creative Imaginus that can simply wish >his< game into reallity.
While the rest of the team will surly take care of the rest.


some suggestions from my side:

Stay the hell away from RTS or anything that will need good pathfinding.
And dont do a Multiplayer as a first game.
(the thing is that we all have expirience with wc3/sc2 maps and making a new unit or changing the peons attack are just some simple tast, thus creating a RTS simply must be easy!)

Take a look at Morrowind, it has horrible pathfinding and doesnt have a multiplayer, yet it was very popular. Also skyrim, no multiplayer/pathfinding and still it sells good.
 

Drunken_Jackal

Drunken_Jackal

Drunken_Jackal

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Statharas said:
Shit, Jackal, you gave me an amazing idea! A scary game with different gameplay depending on choices you make and best of all, different storylines for a person you have lost (Lover, husband/wife, friend, mother, father, sister, brother or enemy)
Click to expand...

Oh you :D Thanks anyway.
It doesn't have to be someone you have lost though, just someone you care about. The storyline can be decided by a sort of series of questions asked to the player about this person and him/herself.

MasterTrainer said:
No decision?! I thought we already decided on the Warlock idea... !
Click to expand...

Theres no poll yet, so yeah.
 

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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MasterTrainer said:
No decision?! I thought we already decided on the Warlock idea... !
Click to expand...
hehe i wish^^
but we have to see what the majority wants to do, not just the majority of ppl actively posting ;P

I'm afraid that a game without multiplayer wont get players to play it on a regular basis or keep them playing it for a long time.
It's just so much more fun when you can play with/against other real human beings! :)
Gives you tonns more satisfaction to outplay someone with equal standpoint by being better than them at the game than just defeating some NPC monster that is made to be defeated by you and if you are too weak ur fucked no matter how skilled you are and have to get gear/lvl up before going at him again, then it just comes down to who has the most time to kill imo :p

I got a feeling that it will be two groups, one who wants a good background story and uniqueness to the game and another who wants exciting gameplay and cool effects :p
I'm more in the 2nd group there, as i'm a practical man, and always has been, the aesthetic details and the depth of the game is less important to me, i'm more interested in the actual gameplay and the excitement it brings me.
While i do see the attraction to having a unique game with an awesome and exciting background story it doesn't rly help me any if i don't feel excited about the gameplay, it's like spotting a lovely pie resting in the window then taking a bite of it just to find out it's bluecheese pie or smth, it's interesting, looks good and definitively smth else, but if i don't like the taste....:p
 

Drunken_Jackal

Drunken_Jackal

Drunken_Jackal

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Jolly_jumper said:
I'm afraid that a game without multiplayer wont get players to play it on a regular basis or keep them playing it for a long time.
It's just so much more fun when you can play with/against other real human beings! :)
Gives you tonns more satisfaction to outplay someone with equal standpoint by being better than them at the game than just defeating some NPC monster that is made to be defeated by you and if you are too weak ur fucked no matter how skilled you are and have to get gear/lvl up before going at him again, then it just comes down to who has the most time to kill imo :p
Click to expand...

Prepare for a pretty biased "rant".

Well its false that all games need multiplayer to be "fun" or multiplayer experience increases a games longevity. Look at those Bethesda games such as Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3/NV or better, Morrowind, those are carefully crafted (by paying attention to detail) and are still likely to be played up to know. Better yet, look at the wonderful game Spec Ops: The Line. That game had a wonderful narrative, perhaps one of the best in the modern gaming era, but it didn't need a multiplayer, yet developers still added it (fault of the publishers here). Still, critics bashed at it for its suckish multiplayer. You dont play a GTA game for its multiplayer.

Yes it might be "fun" by having a multiplayer, but periodically adding new stuff extends this "fun", such as player mods (why WarCraft 3 is awesome) or developer content, such as expansions/DLC/etc. A game with a good enough depth and a low complexity makes a game stand the test of time. Also remember that not all games should be fun, just compelling to its audience. Multiplayer is just a"hack" developers try to use to increase the longevity of a game as well as its compelling factor and most multiplayer experiences end up being poorly executed. Making a long lasting Singleplayer game is hard, but not impossible. All you need is pacing in Singleplayer games to make one long enough, plus the quality of the experience matters way more than playtime, imo.

Multiplayer games are quite harder to implement, dealing with all the networking stuff, player moderation, making sure everyone gets a meaningful experience, making it balanced/competitive enough (avoiding stuff like Power Creeps, creating proper imbalance), and having proper Counter Play. This usually makes it cost more in the development phase.

If a true singleplayer game uses multiplayer to increase its longevity, it either has a bad multiplayer or is a bad game overall.

I got a feeling that it will be two groups, one who wants a good background story and uniqueness to the game and another who wants exciting gameplay and cool effects :p I'm more in the 2nd group there, as i'm a practical man, and always has been, the aesthetic details and the depth of the game is less important to me, i'm more interested in the actual gameplay and the excitement it brings me.
While i do see the attraction to having a unique game with an awesome and exciting background story it doesn't rly help me any if i don't feel excited about the gameplay, it's like spotting a lovely pie resting in the window then taking a bite of it just to find out it's bluecheese pie or smth, it's interesting, looks good and definitively smth else, but if i don't like the taste....:p
Click to expand...

Depth actually brings that exciting gameplay you speak of. A deep game without much complexity, I mean. Depth is just the number of meaningful choices that can come out of a ruleset, or a game, as I define it, while Complexity is the mental burden a game gives a player per choice from this ruleset. So these two groups just really want a game with good depth.

A game with zero background story makes it less compelling. I mean you wake up beating Ogres which is the only thing you can do, but why? You'll always ask why, but without a background story, you'll never know why, making you have no reason to beat these ogres.
 

morbent

morbent

morbent

Level 28
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T.. t. too much to read :( oh well, lets get started.

Yes I thought about the Forest Density problem too Jolly, but it would still be cool - not all arenas have to be good for any spell, there can even be arenas which are very weird and unbalanced, just for fun. There can be the main Basic Balanced for all types of heroes arenas and some other ones, which are strange.
 

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Level 6
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
198
It's easier to make a singleplayer game, but it's much harder to make it popular and fun to play again and again and again and again.....:p
Idk of all those games you speak of, but i've never been much fan of the GTA series from the simple reason that it doesn't have a multiplayer option, but a friend of mines been playing this GTA-like game APB and i like it a whole lot better just for the fact that you play with other real people!^^

So as you probably understand, i'm not really a fan of single player games in general hehe i just get bored of them so easily, even Prototype which shouldve been like my ultimate game i got bored of pretty quick, didn't buy the sequel cause i knew it wouldn't have multiplayer. Don't need much, just a simple co-op function on some missions or PvP would be enough for me to still be playing it now and then and buy the sequel :p

Periodically adding stuff and updating the game will ofcourse help it's longevity, but a multiplayer game with periodical updates and add-ons would be much more compelling, atleast to me, and might even become big in the indie game world! :D
A singleplayer game is bound to lose it's playerbase after a year or so while a multiplayer game might just continue growing forever as long as we keep it updated and balanced with the add-ons they hopefully wont get bored of it, for a singleplayer game thats too much to hope for i'm afraid :p

A background story is not important in all types of games, an arena game like warlock don't need much background story, maybe just a quick explanation why they have been brought to the arena to fight eachother, but no need for different stories for the different characters and stuff, ofcourse it wouldn't hurt, but i don't think the quality of the game would hurt much without it either :p
But they're fun to make and many ppl here are great at it so why not though, it will be cool for those that care and notice it ;)
Btw with depth i meant more like how much story there is and how well it's carried out in the game :p Like if stuff makes sense or not according to their background story and shit like that^^

Drunken_Jackal said:
Multiplayer games are quite harder to implement, dealing with all the networking stuff, player moderation, making sure everyone gets a meaningful experience, making it balanced/competitive enough (avoiding stuff like Power Creeps, creating proper imbalance), and having proper Counter Play. This usually makes it cost more in the development phase.
Click to expand...
The networking stuff idk anything about, but it's been done so many times before i'm sure we can make it happen too! :p
Having mods shouldn't be too hard if the game gets popular, many ppl would probably gladly wanna moderate if it's needed so they can feel like a total mega-god cause they have some power others dont^^
In PvP games it's up to urself to make it a meaningfull experience, especially in such a game where everyone got the same value be it gold, spell pts or buggers :p
Making it balanced and competitive would be the most difficult task, but it would also be the most rewarding, the game wont be popular for long if it's completely imbalanced, but i think we have enough ppl here who are used to balancing spells for WC3 maps and i know that if we make a game like this atleast i would be dedicating alot of my time and effort into perfecting this part as it might be the most important since it's so easy to fail at :p

Pros for pure multiplayer vs pure singleplayer:
-No need for AI
-Much more fun to play
-Easier to sustain a big playerbase
-Many cool possibilities when it comes to modes
-More likely to get it's own community of gamers

Cons for pure multiplayer vs pure singleplayer:
-Much harder to balance
-Advanced networking
-Less room for storywriting
-More timeconsuming to test since you can't just do it all alone
-More difficult to make in general

I tried to get 5 good points in each, but there are probably much more that i missed^^
To me it's like this, okay MP is more work and probably more difficult to make, but the product would also be a whole lot better! And since we have no deadline or costs at all i don't see why we should go for the easy way out, i understand the ppl who say you should start by making smth small and easy first to get to know the engine, but cmooon!^^ It's taken several months just to come up with a few suggestions and then we gonna make a small game just to learn and after that maybe make the big and awesome one?? :goblin_sleep:


Well my opinion is my opinion, yours might be different, let me hear it :)
 

Xonok

Xonok

Xonok

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Sid meyer, the guy that made simcity, sims, railroad tycoon and many other games, once explained a part of how he makes games. One thing that he said is that they try to get a working prototype up as soon as possible.

So whatever is chosen, there must be something playable early, because it's easy to get lost in development(which is also why a specific plan and deadline are needed).
 

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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I think first we must descide on which project we'll go for before we start putting too much effort into this and it doesn't get picked :p

Btw i'm so sorry for my often too massive posts!^^ It's soo hard to stop myself before i feel done with the subject, thats why i make 1 large post, so i don't have to make 10 small ones with basicly the same content, but large posts get easily ignored i'm afraid, eventhough that defies all logic considering they usually are the most thought through and have the most interesting content, atleast imo :p
 

Binsu

Binsu

Binsu

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I think Stath should start stopping ideas in the other thread and start a poll of the great ideas there. Whoever gets many votes, we'll focus there! If we keep accepting ideas here and in the other thread, we will not even progress at this. Starting from thinking the game engine we are gonna use then it will follo the game's content

Well, it depends if Stath want it that way.
 

Metalbear

Metalbear

Metalbear

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Lier!
Also, the only one who I seen to take the project more serious and show some done work for it with hes cute 2D animation was Morbent so far. Wonder if the rest can manage to show some enthusiasm as well, by providing things like sounds, 2D images, 3D models, textures or even some started game engine? You know, the project wont go anywhere with 1 2D artist and a hundred of idea makers! Unity isnt a dull RPG maker engine, it requires lot of painful work with maths and logics to script all the stuff!
 

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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Okay before this list gets too long i'd like to share it and hear what you think ;)

Features i hope to see in the game:
- Pre-game lobby where you get pinged and chat with ppl, challenging them to a fight or w/e
- Atleast these buttons:
*Join random/ranked game [select mode]<--Simple choices or advanced settings
*Join random/ranked game with [select min/max] <#> players
*Join <gamename>
*Ranked scoreboard
*Log out/in
- A matchmaking system that automatically puts players with even ping in the same games
- For later we might want to make it ranked and have stats and a matchmaking system for the ranked games
- A voting system for special settings in game lobby(f.ex. Ranked Mode which means no extra gold for kill/wins/most dmg and/or Extra Gold Mode with higher startgold and/or more gold per round + other special settings we make that they can choose between)
- A "Ready" button inside gamelobby which automatically activates 10s after you joined game and automatically deactivate when someone join/leave* and activate again 10s later *unless you tell it not to with like a box you cross off or smth (so there'd be 2 boxes)
- Pingcheck for everyone before game starts and a msg is whispered to every player showing their ping and the average ping of players in the game before starting the countdown
- Playernumber defined by the colour on some pieces of the hero's clothes and the colour on some spells
- Min 6 different arenas
- Min 4 heroes with unique core spells/attributes
- Min 4 extra spell slots
- Min 20 extra spells to choose between
- Min 3 item slots
- Min 20 items to choose between
- Scoreboard during fight
- Final scoreboard
- Ranked scoreboard

Idk if we're gonna have items/buffers, but it could be cool if we make them right, no useables/consumables!! ;P

And ofcourse idk if we're gonna go with that idea yet or not either, but it's looking good so far ;)
Btw Statharas, the magic championship concept is pretty much the same as mine isn't it?^^
 

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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Okay i don't understand why he should be, but that's his problem in that case :p

I tried making a list of the different modes i could come up with at the spot, but i'm sure we'll have more suggestions of modes when if we start on this project ;P

Different modes:
-Regular round mode like in Warlock where you fight for a set amount of rounds and if you get killed ur dead until the round is over with shop-time in between rounds which can be played either as FFA or different teams, shuffled or picked
-Deathmatch/Team deathmatch where you respawn a set amount of time after you get killed and can enter shop at any time by clicking a button or smth and the game is won by which player/team gets a set amount of points first
-Capture the flag where you have up to 4 teams and the way you win is by having ur own flag + an opponents flag inside an area for a set amount of time without getting disrupted by enemies picking up any of the two flags
-King of the hill where you can play FFA or up to 4 teams where everyone from the same team must stand inside an area for a set amount of time without getting knocked outside to win the game
-Elemental mode where we have 4 heroes; Aeromancer, Geomancer, Aquamancer and a Pyromancer, these all have their own unique core spells and spell books with lost of awesome elemental effects! ;P
-R-P-S mode which could be a variation of the elemental mode only with max 3 heroes and spell books that counter eachother and work by the Rock-Paper-Scissor concept ;)
-Dodgeball mode


I think arena concepts is a good place to start, i hope someone feels creative about that cause i'm not, and i can't draw for shit either so i wouldn't do it justice i'm afraid :p
 
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Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

Jolly_jumper

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Yeah i'm just trying to get all the ideas on the table first so we don't do smth at start which prevents us from adding smth we'd want to add later :p

But where do you think we should start?
Making arena concepts should be a good place i think since then we have smth to start on with the prototype by adding the lava and stuff.
After that we need hero model(s) so we can make them have the right MS and stuff before we go on to making the different spells (which most likely will take the longest concidering the balance and fine tuning)

The different modes would ofcourse be the last priority except the basic round mode though so we can make a playable prototype to test'n'stuff ;)
 
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