[Discussion] Would you be interested in working in a community project?

[Amargaard]

The Hive Party




Dimensions: 3D
Game Style: Party Game
Game Description: The idea is that we make Party games for all players, similar to Mario Party¹ and Crash Bash².
Reasons why this will be fun and worth the time: It'll be interesting to code
Will this require any extra expertise: Probably some modelers and Skinners

Totally voting for this - party games are awzum - that was what I spent my time on, on Battle.net, back when Warcraft community was still great

 

[Statharas]

It's going to be a multiple selection poll...

 

[morbent]

"It'll be interesting to code"

xD hahha, wow ;D

btw, the warlock game may require a lot of coding...

 

[Silverfish423]

Do we have to start from scratch?

 

[MasterTrainer]

I think so.

 

[morbent]

Yep. Oh wait, I think we can take the Engine of Unity or something else, but that's all.

SILVERFIIIIISH IS THE BEST IN MINECRAFTTTTTTT

 

[Statharas]

Obviously?

 

[morbent]

Yah. So we gotta use Unity :\ not C3++ or whatever these were

 

[Just_Spectating]

about your party idea Stath,
i like this idea,
if we made it along the lines of Uther Party Mixed with Mario party, i think this is a good idea

 

[Binsu]

I suggest we go with Warlock already because I think most agree (not all) so this will be enough.... but if guys, you really want a different idea, I think we should pick the great ideas on the other thread and make it in a poll, so we can already choose what project will we work. We must also remember not to go for hard projects. What's the use if your idea of the project is great but cannot be done and will just stay an idea... right?

 

[morbent]

Yep. That's right. So... lets start making Warlock.

Any ideas on where to start from xD?

 

[MasterTrainer]

I think we need a team first...

 

[Binsu]

I think we need a team first...

This is the whole team, hello? And I think we shoudl start first at the game's story. We must think of a good one, I guess.

 

[MasterTrainer]

This is the whole team, hello? And I think we shoudl start first at the game's story. We must think of a good one, I guess.

I know we're the team I was just..... testing you people (just kidding- I really forgot). Also, I thought the story should already be included in a suggestion, ergo should we already have one?

 

[morbent]

Story? That's Warlock wow! What story xD?

 

[MasterTrainer]

Hehe now that i think of it, i do not think warlock needs one (not that it ever did[i dont know if it has, i am not so much familaiar with it...])

 

[morbent]

It's just an arena Mage Fight map from Warcraft. With cool spells and combos.

 

[MasterTrainer]

Okay so since we don't need the story now, let's start the concepts and hero ideas. We (morbent, Jolly jumper and I) already gave some, should the hero/class ideas be approved?

 

[morbent]

Ok, lets take the "best" classes from the ones given.

 

[MasterTrainer]

I'm pretty sure one of the best is the Archmage. For me that is. Should we limit the number of classes? To how many?

 

[Just_Spectating]

for Story, each character's background would suffice

 

[Amargaard]

We could have some fun character personalities, like in Team Fortress 2 - that would actually be pretty cool in a Warlock game :b

 

[morbent]

Ys amargaard that sounds pret Ty cools, they can even say different stuff when they kill each ther etc. But if we have arch age where does magee go to? (damn k keyboard)

No maximum heroes, let's jus t choose the best and then we will decide. Can somoeeone ple se type all clsses we have for now ,cuz with this damn I pad. O iPod or whatever It is I can't do shit .

After we have like 50 classes we will choose the good sones from them.f. Man this shit doesn't stop editing my words.

 

[Jolly_jumper]

I'd suggest you just go for 3-4 models first as any higher number would be very hard to make balanced if we want them all to have different (but still similar) "core spells" (spells that they start with)

There are currently 2 core spells used in Warlock:
Scourge which works as a close range AoE spell that deals dmg to both you and ur opponent on use, but only knocks back ur opponent ofc, it's got a very low cooldown.
And the familiar Fireball which works as your most basic projectile spell with medium damage and a relatively low cooldown compared to other spells

I would suggest maybe add an inherent movement spell (R-spell in warlock) dependent on the hero you choose to play with.
That would make the choice of hero much much MUCH more important than it currently is in warlock now and make it more strategic instead of just having a few builds be generally stronger than most no matter which model you choose to play with.

The scourge could have lots of different effects to make them varied.
Lets take the basic scourge first, 10 dmg and 300 range (just so we have a base)
A 2nd scourge could be 7 dmg and 400 range. 3 dmg reduced might sound like a bit too big of a nerf compared to the 100 range increase, but since it also means you'll deal 3 less selfdamage from the scourge, and the range is like superimportant when it comes to that spell, it's pretty fitting imo
A 3rd scourge could be that it does 6 dmg, 300 range and leave ur opponents movement slowed by 50% for 2 seconds making it a combostarter
A 4th could be that it does 8 dmg, 300 range, but summons a shield around ur hero for 3 seconds
And a 5th could deal 9 dmg, 300 range, and increase ur own MS by 20% for 5s or smth

Different fireball effects is a bit harder to come up with as it should still stay as the most basic projectile spell, and thats hard when you wanna make 4 different
But i have a few suggestions:
1st suggestion: A supersmall, low damage fireball with increasing size and damage depending on the distance it's traveled
2nd suggestion: A low dmg fireball which leaves a trail of fire behind that deal DPS to opponents and increase MS of allies
3rd suggestion: A low dmg fireball which slows ur opponents MS by 60% for 1.5s
4th suggestion: A medium dmg fireball which deals extra DPS + 20% MS slow for the same duration as the DPS(3-5 seconds?)

So we have 5 scourges and 5 fireballs(including the basic one) so we could make 5 pairs here now, but if we wanna make the movement spells be core spells aswell we need 5 of those first aswell.
The names are pretty hard to come up with as i feel they should fit the hero they would belong to, but the effects could be pretty similar to the ones you find on the R-spells in warlock: Teleport(basic), Multiport(2-step-teleport), Swap(switches position between you and the object you hit), Relocate(low range and low cooldown teleport by projectile like in swap) and Thrust(charge towards where you clicked at very high speed knocking back whoever might cross ur way and stopping ur own movement in the process ofc)

Then we could combine:
Teleport with basic scourge and basic fireball(the basic hero^^)
Multiport with shielding scourge and expanding fireball
Swap with slowing scourge and the firetrail fireball
Relocate with 400 range scourge and 60% slow fireball
Thrust with 20% inc MS scourge and DPS fireball

And come up with 5 hero ideas that would fit those

I think we should start with coming up with spells if we want the heroes to fit the spells cause we can't do it the other way(making the spells fit the heroes) if we want a successfully balanced game

 

[morbent]

"starts reading"

Edit: that's a really cool ides jolly, but the. Shield scourge is to opowerful ;D

Anyway, yes... 5 should. B good


Edit 2 although if we. Have for examp le a shadow Mage we can make. All his spe,ls shadowy,cuz if. Wr have many spells. It's hard to make them be from one teype

 

[Amargaard]

I'd love to develop some concept arts of such fun hero classes ^^
Anyways, here's another idea - Instead of having different magician classes only there could be all kinds of classes, like Rangers, which shoots enchanted arrows, and Gunmen, shooting magical bullets - as long as all heroes are based on magical attacks
The game title could be "Magical Arena" or "Arena of Magic" or something like that :b

 

[Binsu]

I'd love to develop some concept arts of such fun hero classes ^^
Anyways, here's another idea - Instead of having different magician classes only there could be all kinds of classes, like Rangers, which shoots enchanted arrows, and Gunmen, shooting magical bullets - as long as all heroes are based on magical attacks
The game title could be "Magical Arena" or "Arena of Magic" or something like that :b

But we should still base it on the game Warlock because another game idea will make us change and change to another game and that, we will not make any progress.....

 

[Amargaard]

Yes, I didn't change any of that - I only suggested that the different heroes that players can choose (We intend to make different heroes, right? Or only one hero, like in the Warlock-map?) should not only be magicians, but other types of ranged classes as well

 

[Binsu]

Yes, I didn't change any of that - I only suggested that the different heroes that players can choose (We intend to make different heroes, right? Or only one hero, like in the Warlock-map?) should not only be magicians, but other types of ranged classes as well

That is indeed a unique and great idea, making all of their attacks magical so it can be based on the game.

 

[Jolly_jumper]

But then you completely lose the part where you feel ur building ur own superhero^^
The point is to combine the spells that you want to use and not just pick a hero with already set spells

But if we want alot of different heroes we could make one of the spell books a special one which only shows the spells available to the hero-type you've picked...would make it even more important that you make a strategic choice of hero + build

 

[Dr Super Good]

The point is to combine the spells that you want to use and not just pick a hero with already set spells

As Diablo III has shown, this does not work as intended.

Instead of choosing abilities they "like", they choose the abilities that "perform the best". The result is that Diablo III has 80% or more of Barbarians in Softcore running Whirlwind and 80% of all Monks running Fists of Thunder. It is not like no effort was made with other choices, they just fail to perform as effectively.

Giving heroes pre-determined skills eliminates this problem as it forces players to think of what they have instead of what they should have. It does however push the same problem on to the hero selection level but that is only 1 level of customization (how AoS games work).

Players having unrestricted skill choices always results in "godly builds". These are the result of difficult to balance interactions that can occur between abilities. Such interactions are so strong that unless special cases are made (hard to implement) the ability would require being nerfed to such an extent that any other use is no longer viable. In Diablo III the Barbarian has such an interaction where the result is skills being much strong than ever intended.

 

[Jolly_jumper]

Try this if you didn't like D3
http://www.pathofexile.com/
It's so awesome how you can combo the skill and support gems! I've started playing it a little only lvl 39 though
Anyways....it's a totally different game and i think Warlock works pretty good hehe

But yeah it's very difficult to balance alot of spells so the customized hero should be a special mode, usually you'd have the predetermined heroes which have their inherent, individual variation of the core spells(fireball, scourge, move spell), but the rest should still be fully customizable or it would miss out on alot of the satisfaction by getting stronger and bigger imo

But there could be a mode for you in there aswell, an elemental mode where we make different heroes for different elements with spells fitting their...element

 

[Statharas]

There's a reason why this is called a Community Project rather than "gathering a team for a game"

 

[MasterTrainer]

Community?! Dude I can count by hand the people active on this thread.

 

[Statharas]

That's still not how the project is going to work

 

[MasterTrainer]

Then how is it going to work?

 

[morbent]

Dead again -.-

 

[MasterTrainer]

No- don't give up. We don't give up.

 

[Jolly_jumper]

Hmm.. well, Jolly, actually, except the basic spells (move type spell, scourge type spell, fireball type spell) we'll need like 20 more spells which each hero type can use... right?
Or why not make all the spells be Pickable (for example: you can pick blink, thrust or speed spell even if you're Warlock/Pyromancer/Mage/etc.) and make like 2-3 spells for each hero type which are only usable by the specific hero? Also, there can be a hp/speed/mana (why not add mana actually?) difference in the heroes - like, one has 110 hp, 200 ms, another has 80 hp 280 ms, etc. (you're better at balancing the numbers -.- I suck at this xD)

The idea was to make like atleast 20 spells you can choose between and make it so you can pick up to 4 additional spells which you then lvl up.

We could ofcourse leave the move-spell optional aswell like it is in Warlock, but i thought since the R-spell is always the first spell you pick anyways and to bring some more strategy and make it easier to balance we'd have the different heroes have their own unique move-spell so we can balance it more strictly/easily and give the heroes more personality kinda

HP difference between heroes is fine, but if we're gonna give a hero lower MS than the others it would be a drastic nerf and it should be countered by having stronger core spells.
And if we go for a special spell book which shows you spells only available to your hero class or smth we could counter balance there aswell, it's a tricky thing this balance stuff, but atleast if we do it like this we have alot of options how to balance instead of just doing a universal balance whenever we feel some combos are too strong we could balance it by altering the core spells and the class dependent spells of that hero aswell
I like cooldown much better than mana as it's more predictable and you don't end up spamming 1 or 2 spells only^^

 

[morbent]

Yes but like that there is no choice - one of the heroes has thrust, the other one blink, the third rush. Meaning - there are no combinations between spells and you can't have, for example, thrust on one hero you want with a combination of Slowing Fireball, you gotta pick the hero with Thrust and... say, Burning Fireball. You can't make a hero with Slowing Fireball and Thrust cuz there is no such hero. There is no "choosing your spells". It's all as it is :\

 

[Jolly_jumper]

As mentioned it could be a special mode where you are fully free to customize ur own hero, but that would require some serious balancing though, it's not easy to make everything balanced with eachother when everyone is free to pick whatever skill they want

And since scourge and fireball got such low cooldown(atleast thats how i imagined them to be, like in Warlock ) it's really easy to make them imba in combination with stuff, so thats why i suggested we make heroes have their individual, unique core spells including an inherent move-spell so we can balance them that way instead
But choice of move-spell is very important in warlock, so maybe we don't make the move-spell locked? But then we'd lose out on some of the character personality features and make it even harder for ourselves to balance the game...idk....i'm leaning towards it being a special mode to have them fully customizable cause then we could make other changes aswell, but make em count only in that mode
Gotta think of balance all the way hehe

And don't forget it's only the core spells that would be locked to the different heroes, the remaining 4(?) spell slots would be where you customize ur hero, thats where you choose between 20+ spells ;P

 

[Xonok]

What about making it so that there would be no set kinds of core spells?
So that every character would have some spells to begin with, but the way they work could be drastically different. So that one would have fireball as core spell while another would have teleport.
This would just mean grouping spells into categories where you can only pick 1 per category(like in normal warlocks) and it would also mean that the base spells don't have to be so similar.

 

[MasterTrainer]

How about every class has the same core spell (Ex. fireball) then each class can make that core spell evolve based on their attributes/class/stats...

 

[Amargaard]

I'd say keep the core spells almost the same, not completely identical, but same general idea (An example would be a thrown skillshot spell, like a fireball), where all classes start out with such a spell, with varying amounts of mana cost/cooldown/damage/speed/etc, and of course different looks - a Hydromancer shouldn't be throwing fire balls, but rather some water-like bolt

 

[Jolly_jumper]

What about making it so that there would be no set kinds of core spells?
So that every character would have some spells to begin with, but the way they work could be drastically different. So that one would have fireball as core spell while another would have teleport.

IMHO i think that would seem pretty strange and inconsistent, and also i can guarantee you that it would be a bitch to balance!

This would just mean grouping spells into categories where you can only pick 1 per category(like in normal warlocks) and it would also mean that the base spells don't have to be so similar.

I like how Warlocks done it by grouping together different spells and i think thats how we should do it aswell, but that would be for the spells you use to customize the hero you picked, i don't quite understand how you've come to this conclusion from ur above statement, but the catagorizing of spells is something we should discuss cause if we want to leave all spells available no matter which you've picked previously then we can't have strong protection spells like the C-spells in Warlock and we'd lose out on an easy balancing option incase we have 2-3 spells who's just too imba in combination, but if we leave all the spells open no matter which you choose then there'd be even more possible combinations and a greater feeling of freedom to customize ur hero as you want....idk tough choice

How about every class has the same core spell (Ex. fireball) then each class can make that core spell evolve based on their attributes/class/stats...

Just have all the fireballs start out basic, but make it possible to upgrade it into your heroes own unique variation! That would work very nice i think cause then everyone atleast starts with the same fireball and those that choose to keep their regular fireball can do so by not upgrading it(regular fireball should be no worse than the other FBs)
Ofcourse upgrading should be worth it though, idk how we're gonna do it, if we're gonna use gold and the spells have different prices and stuff(easiest to balance) or if we're gonna use some sort of skill pts where getting a new spell could cost 2 skill pts and upgrading one could cost 1, that would be much harder to balance ofcourse, but might make the game flow a little better though, so idk, depends on how much pressure you are willing to place on the balancing department


If we make an elemental mode with a Pyromancer, a Hydromancer, a Geomancer and an Aeromancer we could make elemental spell books containing only spells with effects fitting their element
Could be a cool mode with awesome terrain and stuff, but it would require completely new spell books and maybe even more spells than in the normal mode since now we'd need atleast an additional 4 spell books containing pure elemental based spells all balanced and all fitting their elemental hero-type
So it would most likely be the biggest mode and somewhat of a side-project which fits very well with this being a community project with (hopefully) lots of participants!

 

[Statharas]

You guys are way too narrow minded, you should be thinking of the general systems rather than the abilities themselves

 

[morbent]

Urgh yeah. Can someone think of these stuff fast and tell me what to do -.- I can't think of such stuff. Just give me something to do moose!

 

[MasterTrainer]

How about a system that:

-Limits the number of spells that can be cast in a minute/hour/time?

 

[morbent]

I mean.. something related to drawing.

 

[MasterTrainer]

Well, since this is related to a magic championship, how about a landing screen depicting a wild battle between different mages? Go wild on the colors.