Why is such a double standard here at THW?

[ironman47]

It's true and I think all of the staff knows it. I just wanna ask, don't you guys know that such a double standard leads to irritating good people of the community?

Just from one short visit to the forums here and it doesn't take long to see that.

Take a look at the thread narrat0r started > Isn't the hive being to strict?

I just jumped to the last page and they're all the posts are totally unrelated to the thread!

It's mainly moderators making the post.

The point I wanna make in this thread is simply this.

If the staff members don't set an example (by obeying the rules themselves) for the rest of us users to follow most users will ignore the rules.

There's also such a double standard when it comes to harsh and vulgar language. The posts that I just happen to come across were made by some user called mr.bob he was just saying in his posts F this and F that and these post were never edited. And remain here on this so called friendly "respectable hive community".

Mr Bob must be a God. And I don't mean to pick on you Mr Bob.

I'm only trying to make a point. And the point is

Such double standards will always lead to unhappy users and a community full of new users...

 

[Direfury]

Don't pay any attention to Bob if he bothers you that much. I don't, and it really raised the quality of this site.

 

[GhostThruster]

@OP: Well whether a user is punished depends on the context of the swearing. They did not punish Mr.Bob because he did not say 'f*** you, son of a b****. Now go back into your father's a**hole.' if you know what I mean.

Also now that you've made this thread, just some friendly advice, RUN.

 

[ironman47]

@Vermillion Edict - "Don't pay any attention..." That's no doubt the best advice for any user that might be offended by obscene or vulgar language. And I thank you sir for your good advice.

@Ghostbuster - Ah you lost me somewhere around

your father's a**hole

wait that didn't sound right (just a sec I fell off my chair)

Also now that you've made this thread, just some friendly advice, RUN.

Now that's funny. I just used mr boob as an example. I guess i'm a bleeding heart and feel sorry for all the young users here on the hive who look up to a lot of you guys with the flashy balls...wait I meant ah globes.

Seriously though dogs its such a double standard here. When it comes to what one person can get away with and what another never could.

You know the longer I'm here the more I realize...

I'm probably just beat'in a dead horse,

but then again that doesn't seem to stop bob.

____________________________________________

I really hope you don't take offense that easily bob.

And if you do, well that's your problem .)

 

[Crayons]

the hive is gauntlet. if you are strong willed, you pass, you last.

if not, you know that you're a candy arse.

The people here are not really serious about the things they type, they just do it for the lulz.
Leave them be.

 

[Traxamillion]

What the fucking fuck?

 

[TheKurt009]

the hive is gauntlet. if you are strong willed, you pass, you last.

if not, you know that you're a candy arse.

The people here are not really serious about the things they type, they just do it for the lulz.
Leave them be.

this ^

 

[Mr. Bob]

How the hell did I come into this thread?

 

[Crayons]

coz it's trollbait.

 

[GhostThruster]

You make Crayons nothing sense.

 

[HFR]

Leave while you can, after a certain period of time you'll be trapped here like the rest of us.

I blame the midichlorians.

 

[Deleted member 157129]

Is it really necessary not to swear in order for a community to be friendly and respectable? Sorry for completely ignoring the rest of your post, but is it really necessary? Is there really a problem that people swear?

 

[fladdermasken]

There's also such a double standard when it comes to harsh and vulgar language. The posts that I just happen to come across were made by some user called mr.bob he was just saying in his posts F this and F that and these post were never edited. And remain here on this so called friendly "respectable hive community".

I cite.

Also, Elf, stop being such a prude. We're adults here. We swear like drunk sailors. Especially me

 

[Gilles]

I cite.

How far into recycled threads did you have to go for that one? I miss Mecheon now.
However I disagree with him, there are a number of teenagers on the site. I suppose it doesn't change the fact that they're old enough to handle some profuse cuss'n.

 

[Deolrin]

I'm pretty sure that most of the trouble is because the admins\moderators cannot really decide among themselves. It seems like each person has their own view of the Hive's rules, who should be punished, etc. I'll give an example, and I hope I won't be shouted to death because of it: Rui seems to punish people a lot more easily than, for example, Joe-black-5 or shiiK. I'm not taking sides here, but if the mods had a list(I'm sure they already do though D with all of the rules and exactly what kind of punishment each person would get for breaking a specific rule, things would be a lot better.

 

[ironman47]

The point I was trying to make ladies is this, There seems to be such a double standard here. Most of you guys already know that if you don't look at a recent thread I posted here http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/site-discussion-97/isnt-hive-little-too-strict-206149/index2.html#post2040988
My post was edited for what? The words that were removed were suck, butthead and don't be a duck.

Now what do you ladies think about that? Yes, I want to gripe about that. I can't seem to express myself the way I want to but you can bob.

What gives?

In response to some of your comments:

@shiil

Is it really necessary not to swear in order for a community to be friendly and respectable?

I don't think so, If that's the way you choose to express yourself and we're all adults here. But we all are not adults here. That's the point.

@HFR

Leave while you can, after a certain period of time you'll be trapped here like the rest of us.

I like to come here to complain.

@Crayons

coz it's trollbait.

What does TAST stand for? It's not trolling around stank threads is it?

@Mr. Bob - Take that out of your signature!

the hive is gauntlet

I think it is a for some. Some seem protected. Others are cannon fodder.

When it come to cursing i'm not a prude or anything like that. I am a parent though and I realize there's nothing much I can do about my fifteen year old son being subjected to any type of language.

I learned a long time ago its not what people say it's how you perceive it or how you take it.

But consider this. Consider the very young here. How impressionable a very young person can be. I already know most users won't consider any of this but I just wanted to...

Promote some...World Peace.


One thing that would be awesome I think if there was a way a user could activate a language filter.

Is there a browser capable of such a thing, anyone know?

 

[Gilles]

I'm pretty sure that most of the trouble is because the admins\moderators cannot really decide among themselves. It seems like each person has their own view of the Hive's rules, who should be punished, etc. I'll give an example, and I hope I won't be shouted to death because of it: Rui seems to punish people a lot more easily than, for example, Joe-black-5 or shiiK. I'm not taking sides here, but if the mods had a list(I'm sure they already do though D with all of the rules and exactly what kind of punishment each person would get for breaking a specific rule, things would be a lot better.

That's been tried.

 

[Numerion]

Well, obviously, this is becoming one of those threads...

so...Lemme just post here, to make sure I am cool and all that

On-topic: totally agree with OP and Crayons.

 

[GhostThruster]

@ironman: There are very few young people here. And the 12 year olds on this site swear a lot more than the rest.

I'm pretty sure it was Rui that edited your post (he usually does the '@ @' thingo). You can contact him about that.

 

[ironman47]

@GhostThruster: You guessed it, it was that rude guy, but I won't contact him. I guess he's just doing his thing. And as far as the young kids go yeah, they do learn quick.

I had a few young kids come to the world peace group a while back complaining of being assaulted by another user using profanity.

Most kids that age are unarmed, meaning they don't have a clue how to deal with something like that and many respond with the same kind of retaliation that the "attacker" is dishing out and then everyone's wounded and your lucky if the medic even shows up.

Well if that every happens to anyone regardless of you combat experience,
if your getting assaulted and your outgunned, out numbered and feel your about to get mortally wounded just remember this one thing...

move

move

move

Mouse to the top right of the screen aaannnd Click!

 

[GhostThruster]

lol ur wierd

Rui is a bit nitpicky with swear words. I think he negrepped me once for saying 'sucks' (I'm not sure tho).

 

[ironman47]

I play too many games that's my problem. Been playing SC2 all day today.

Speaking of weird check this post out:

In the end there are only 2 real reasons people will look foward to the game, 1 they are a psycopath and love killing people and animals in imaginitive ways or they will use the game as a form of sex toy.

Now that's scary!

 

[Hakeem]

Don't you guys know that such a double standard leads to irritating good people of the community?

YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

If the staff members don't set an example (by obeying the rules themselves) for the rest of us users to follow most users will ignore the rules.

GEE, REALLY?

I'm probably just beat'in a dead horse,

It happens every now and then.

I'm pretty sure that most of the trouble is because the admins\moderators cannot really decide among themselves.

Wrong. We're all on exactly the same page: We all agree to disagree.

And to you other point: As Gilles said. I can see why someone on the face side of a ban might think clearer rules would have a better effect, but, "What to do in response," isn't the major issue here is it? The issue here is about what needs to be moderated in the first place. It was my hope that rewriting the rules would aide the moderators in being more uniform in what types of behavior they moderate.

I can't seem to express myself the way I want to but you can bob.

What gives?

Seriously. What gives?

I am a parent though and I realize there's nothing much I can do about my fifteen year old son being subjected to any type of language.

Wisdom.

Consider the very young here. How impressionable a very young person can be.

Hive's job is raising kids, FYI.

I just wanted to...

Promote some...World Peace.

Banning swears ain't gonna do shit for world peace. If anything, it just makes a bunch of pansy-ass prudes who can't argue to save their face. They wouldn't know world peace if it came up and enslaved their children with unrecoverable debt and no way to declare bankruptcy.

One thing that would be awesome I think if there was a way a user could activate a language filter.

Is there a browser capable of such a thing, anyone know?

Yes. I certainly don't think a written policy against swearing is of any practical use or wisdom to anybody.

---

I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea to just close this thread at this point. With any luck everyone relevant will crawl out of the woodwork and voice their concerns now, that they've been sitting on for awhile but didn't make a thread about because it would have caused a lot of drama or something of equal vagueness and repulsion.

WELL GUESS WHAT? THE DRAMA IS ALREADY HERE.

(IF THAT MADE YOU THINK OF LORD ENGLISH, THAT WAS INTENTIONAL.)

It's a damn shame Linaze is banned right now. I'm sure he'd love to be one of those wood crawlers.

 

[ironman47]

Some user keeps posting on my profile asking if I would try his map out. You know that's irritating. I don't have time to try his map out I gotta wrap up this grip session!

It started out that way anyhow..Honestly people I had no Idea, I mean no Idea that there was a bunch of fun people here. I guess that's directed mainly at the staff and senior members of the hive.

Just from previous experiences. Just from stuff like > That post doesn't belong here, Hey you can't say that, That's off topic take that else where.

Well fine then just tell me what the $@*! I can do here and while your at it could you edit this now so I can post it! lol

Of course I'm just being sarcastic...

Just for the record I'm not trying to get swearing banned.

Honestly I started this thread just hoping that someone might say: Hey he's got a point there could you guys stop breaking the rules. How can we expect others to abide by the rules if we're constantly breaking them ourselves.

Forget it, I'm done here.

Here's some wisdom:

There's only one person I have any real control over and that's myself. If I want the world or the Hive to be a better place I have to set an example for others to follow.

I do however have one question for Hakeem he said:

Hive's job is raising kids, FYI.

What time can I drop him off?

 

[Numerion]

Honestly people I had no Idea, I mean no Idea that there was a bunch of fun people here.

I think I'll just ruin the fun for everyone here and stop with the trolling... You know, we all are active or semi-active on hive for one simple reason: we are having fun here. We are not here to be priests... We are just normal folks which are getting older...and with that comes a little change.

And when it comes to some rules or whatever... You don't see people getting banned for the same things the mods are doing...people are just getting warned that they should have their brains and nothing else. People can get banned for being idiots.


And now, I hope that I won't have to post another post long like this here for a few months again...people normally have to think for a little while to make something like that >.>

 

[Direfury]

I'm here mostly out of habit, though it is getting a bit better around here when I avoid the trash that pushed me to leave way back when.

 

[Latecat]

First things first: Inb4closed.
Secondly: I dont know what should i really type, so ill just answer a few things that i found...'answerable'.
Thirdly: on-topic crap.

Some user keeps posting on my profile asking if I would try his map out. You know that's irritating. I don't have time to try his map out I gotta wrap up this grip session!

That could be one of the reasons why nobody likes new people here, simply because they request everyone to (this has been discussed many times) praise them for doing something that is either good or bad.

Most often its bad.

Just for the record I'm not trying to get swearing banned.

You know, you do give the feeling that you are.

- - -

If you actually would see what things bob usually posts (not only aggressive comments/threads), you might see how much truth he actually spills out.

Like he says, the hive is pretty much a social site anymore, a troll cave where everyone is just for fun and to kill time, or the usual 'to be praised' for either no skill requiring crap or awesome stuff forever to be forgotten, which probably results in, if youll excuse the following sentence, a huge boner on the resource uploader/maker(s) and a giant tumor in the brains that has the label 'EGO' in it, growing to the size of a air balloon and resulting in a shitload of drama, like what he are probably going to witness in the following posts.

So just either go with the flow, try to bring sense into the hive (if that is even possible) or just leave.

And excuse me if i actually forgot over half of the stuff in the thread and not answering some 'more important stuff'.


PS: i found this rather amusing.

I'm probably just beat'in a dead horse

If you dont get what i mean with it, just read my name once more and you should figure it out. If not, google it.

 

[Hakeem]

What time can I drop him off?

No later than 4 O'clock in the AM.

post long like this here

Psssssshhhhhhhht.

Inb4closed.

You most certainly are not.

 

[Rui]

I said I'd keep off the Site Discussion for a while and, to an extent, I'll be keeping the word. Just answering to a few key points being made here:

1. Can the person who found Mecheon's quote dig into the archives again and actually find him swearing? My point is not to say it's impossible, but it's to say it's hard: even though I don't doubt Mecheon uses swear, you won't find him doing it all the time, unlike he seems to claim there -- at least I can't remember him swearing that often, and I've been here since the end of 2004. You have to understand that he did it in a very unique style that was his alone. Other people should not try to copy him on danger of meeting with utter failure.
   
   
2. @GhostThruster & ironman: I have seen Ralle state that he wants the website to be user friendly no matter the age. Now, some websites even have an automated censor system incorporated -- I've inclusively spotted such a system within vBulletin. That said, I have no idea why a few people here are so extremely allergic to post censoring.
   To reply to shiiK's point, a website does not need to censor swearing to be friendly, but it's annoying for most people -- not to mention counterproductive and counter-educative overall -- to be reading swearing every line of text; we have enough of this in our social lives. On another hand, even if it is the fad in a 12--14 year old's routine, does it imply it needs to be on the Hive's as well?
   P.S. -- By the way, words like «kid» are not bad in themselves, but I'll censor them if they're used as insults.
   
   
3. The website beats most on the social aspect, but it is not a social site, despite that being what a few users have tried to turn it into. It is and was always supposed to be a modding website. We are not turning it to 4chan because some people here don't care about modding anymore and have nothing better to do.

(I'm late already, damn the long posts >_<)

 

[Direfury]

The website beats most on the social aspect, but it is not a social site, despite that being what a few users have tried to turn it into. It is and was always supposed to be a modding website. We are not turning it to 4chan because some people here don't care about modding anymore and have nothing better to do.

As a whole, the community here does fly far, far above the rest. Though, as far as the last bit of that quote goes, I say we shouldn't even acknowledge those types as part of the group, they're just... there, though they shouldn't be.

 

[Mr. Bob]

I'm amazed that people are still so naive to think that the core community on this site is concerned with modding as a whole in any capacity.

Also, the push towards community drive doesn't inherently mean we are becoming more like 4chan. That's a huge stretch.

I get the feeling that there is a major sense of denial when it comes to the state of this site. It's not 2005. WC3 modding died a long time ago. All art aspects and content being produced at the moment is from artists doing it for personal reasons, and not a team effort directed at a "mod" (map). The maps being produced are not being created by the core community, and are not really indicative of the site as a whole.

Now, as far as SC2 modding, look around you. Find me 10 members of the core community that are actually doing any such thing.

Hell, find me 10 members of the core community that are doing WC3 modding.

The website beats most on the social aspect, but it is not a social site, despite that being what a few users have tried to turn it into. It is and was always supposed to be a modding website. We are not turning it to 4chan because some people here don't care about modding anymore and have nothing better to do.

Oh please. Don't be so naive. This site isn't about modding anymore and you know it. No one is "trying" to turn it into a social site. It already is. I know you miss what you consider the "glory days," when everyone here gave a shit about wc3 and were generally pussies who didn't want to hurt your fragile feelings, but that's long gone. It's about the core community. We come here because we like the people here. That's basically it. And, there isn't really anything wrong with that.

Now, obviously there are exceptions, but they are few and far between. So, stop thinking that the world is coming to an end because we don't all love Blizzard and WC3 like all the cracked out users of the past did. It's a community site and there isn't anything wrong with that.

And as for the OT: What the hell is wrong with language? Who gives a fuck? Do I need to point out that this is A) the internet and B) not a children oriented site? Dear lord.

Also, why do I keep being mentioned? I don't understand why I'm being singled out as the instigator of all vulgarity...

There is a strong community bond here. Why does everyone want to fuck with that for the sake of "modding?"

As a whole, the community here does fly far, far above the rest. Though, as far as the last bit of that quote goes, I say we shouldn't even acknowledge those types as part of the group, they're just... there, though they shouldn't be.

Well then, I guess we need to chuck 95% of the community out of the window then.

 

[Direfury]

or maybe we just rid ourselves of the trolls, and fix a good few problems then and there.

 

[Mr. Bob]

or maybe we just rid ourselves of the trolls, and fix a good few problems then and there.

What trolls? What problems? What the hell does this have to do with "modding vs community?"

 

[Kwah]

@Language - Used in moderation, I have no problem with swearing. Posts that have no purpose other than offense, or are threatening/whatever I have a problem with, but swearing as part of a useful/communicative post is cool with me. On the note of children, not our problem or responsibility as users, or as a site. tl;dr, say what the fuck you want (mostly)

@Modding/Social Site - Bob, you've made it well clear that you are no longer interested in the modding aspect of the site. This does not mean that no-one else is. 5-10 maps are uploaded to this site on a daily basis. People still make skins, they still make art.

As far as I'm concerned this is still the main purpose of the site. However, the social aspect has always been one of the draws of the Hive, I'll agree. It's an important aspect of the site and the community that we wouldn't want to do without.

But the site is both. Certainly there is a group of people who come here for the social side of things. There are people who come here to download maps, or to make maps, or to get people to review their skins, or whatever. Right now, click New Posts. If you look through the recent threads, I bet you that a minimum of 75% of them are in modding related forums, about modding related topics.

If you want to define the "core community", as the group who doesn't mod the game anymore and sits around to post in threads like these (myself included), and have a fun time, then yeah the "core community" doesn't mod. But that isn't really a useful observation.

 

[Mr. Bob]

@Language - Used in moderation, I have no problem with swearing. Posts that have no purpose other than offense, or are threatening/whatever I have a problem with, but swearing as part of a useful/communicative post is cool with me. On the note of children, not our problem or responsibility as users, or as a site.

Bravo. And amen. One of those two.

@Modding/Social Site - Bob, you've made it well clear that you are no longer interested in the modding aspect of the site. This does not mean that no-one else is. 5-10 maps are uploaded to this site on a daily basis. People still make skins, they still make art.

Read what I said about maps again. Look into who is uploading maps. Would you call them core members of the community? Take up my challenge and find me 10 members of REGULARLY VISITING users who interact in the community who are devoted to modding.

As far as I'm concerned this is still the main purpose of the site. However, the social aspect has always been one of the draws of the Hive, I'll agree. It's an important aspect of the site and the community that we wouldn't want to do without.

See my above statement. I couldn't give a shit what the site moderators and administrators WANT it to be about. I'm saying that the site is basically entirely community based now. There is nothing wrong with that.

But the site is both. Certainly there is a group of people who come here for the social side of things. There are people who come here to download maps, or to make maps, or to get people to review their skins, or whatever. Right now, click New Posts. If you look through the recent threads, I bet you that a minimum of 75% of them are in modding related forums, about modding related topics.

As I've said many times before, artists don't make shit because they want to "improve wc3 modding." Let's be honest here. Artists make things because they want to improve their skills, or get praise. It's the way content dumps work. If they aren't part of a team, they aren't part of a team. It's basic human nature.

EDIT: Also on the note of the new posts. Look at the makers of those threads. How long do you think they will be here? They aren't community members. They are people asking questions. If you really think that's important, then you've defined a help board.

If you want to define the "core community", as the group who doesn't mod the game anymore and sits around to post in threads like these (myself included), and have a fun time, then yeah the "core community" doesn't mod. But that isn't really a useful observation.

Sure it's useful. Because if it didn't exist, the site wouldn't either. Which is why I'm so adamant about this. If you try and purge the site of the community members who don't lend anything to wc3 modding by making all topics related to wc3, you end up purging the site of the ENTIRE CORE COMMUNITY. Which basically means your fucked.

Just because we have thousands of people who make maps and download them, doesn't mean that's the lifeblood of this site. It simply means there is a large population of people who simply dump their shit here and leave because they want some sort of recognition for their work. It's not a sustaining factor.

In summation, don't fuck with the community because you want everyone to give a shit about wc3.

 

[Gilles]

Who is this "core community"? What defines a "core" member?

I'm going to be straight with you Mr. Bob. It seems to me like you're putting yourself and the other people you generally talk to on this website, above others by labeling yourself "core community", and claiming to be essential to the existence of this site. It also seems like you're the one denying the fact that quite a number of users still come here for modding purposes.

You're signature, and general attitude, strike me like you think you're superior to other users. I admit, being an older member, I sometimes feel like I'm better than other users, but I try my best to remind myself I'm not. I tell you this because I would want someone to tell me if they thought I was being a righteous prick.

If that isn't the case, I apologize, but that's what I understand when I read some of your posts.

 

[GhostThruster]

@Rui: I don't really care about your censoring, and ironman was stating the double standard. For instance, you edited out his post containing 'butthead' yet you left this post untouched (not singling out you Mr.Bob, just using your post as an example).

...
I know you miss what you consider the "glory days," when everyone here gave a shit about wc3 and were generally pussies who didn't want to hurt your fragile feelings
...
What the hell is wrong with language? Who gives a fuck?
...
Why does everyone want to fuck with that for the sake of "modding?".

@Mr.Bob: I agree with Gilles (except the bit about your signature, which I understand as a mockery of ironman's post). Although I guess you are correct with the way the Hive is heading, you don't seem to respect the modding aspect of this site much, and you're mean :/

Btw;
1. Me. Yes I do mod. I don't submit much, but I am active and working on my own shit.
2. Fingolfin. He makes HQ models and has his own big project.
3. Pharaoh_ is a major guy, he's helped many a user with their issues and problems, and he's recently become a mod.
4. The members of FEG, who made Arcadia, and are making Chernobyl Lost Riddles.
5. Grievous1. He has been working his ass off on Paranoia, and was part of FEG. He's also got a BioShock project.
6. Wazzz. Yes, even him. Lol he has started three (or moar) separate squad-based map projects, and is working on another.
7. MiniMage. He recently submitted a Goblin UI, is making another UI, and has his own projects.
8. CR. He does icons and art requests for free. Contributed many resources. You cannot say he only does this for practice and praise.
9. Debode. He is/was working on SoC and has contributed quite a few models.
10. 67chrome. He's submitted FAR too many skins, and has participated in the last few techtree contests.

Yeah, the list is kinda dodgy, but it is valid enough. I could mention many more dudes and dudettes.

 

[Crayons]

@Rui: I don't really care about your censoring, and ironman was stating the double standard. For instance, you edited out his post containing 'butthead' yet you left this post untouched (not singling out you Mr.Bob, just using your post as an example).


@Mr.Bob: I agree with Gilles (except the bit about your signature, which I understand as a mockery of ironman's post). Although I guess you are correct with the way the Hive is heading, you don't seem to respect the modding aspect of this site much, and you're mean :/

Btw;
1. Me. Yes I do mod. I don't submit much, but I am active and working on my own shit.
2. Fingolfin. He makes HQ models and has his own big project.
3. Pharaoh_ is a major guy, he's helped many a user with their issues and problems, and he's recently become a mod.
4. The members of FEG, who made Arcadia, and are making Chernobyl Lost Riddles.
5. Grievous1. He has been working his ass off on Paranoia, and was part of FEG. He's also got a BioShock project.
6. Wazzz. Yes, even him. Lol he has started three (or moar) separate squad-based map projects, and is working on another.
7. MiniMage. He recently submitted a Goblin UI, is making another UI, and has his own projects.
8. CR. He does icons and art requests for free. Contributed many resources. You cannot say he only does this for practice and praise.
9. Debode. He is/was working on SoC and has contributed quite a few models.
10. 67chrome. He's submitted FAR too many skins, and has participated in the last few techtree contests.

Yeah, the list is kinda dodgy, but it is valid enough. I could mention many more dudes and dudettes.

mmm hmm. that still doesn't represent the rest of the hive.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Who is this "core community"? What defines a "core" member?

A regularly visiting member who actually interacts with other regularly visiting users. Someone who comes and dumps their shit here then leaves isn't someone that would fit into this category.

I'm going to be straight with you Mr. Bob. It seems to me like you're putting yourself and the other people you generally talk to on this website, above others by labeling yourself "core community", and claiming to be essential to the existence of this site. It also seems like you're the one denying the fact that quite a number of users still come here for modding purposes.

I don't even remember calling myself a member of the core community. I just spoke to it's existence. That's a lot of shitty assumptions to be made there, dear gilles.

I never said users don't come here to mod shit, I said they aren't part of the sustaining community.

Also, people who make things such as skins, models, icons, etc, are not people who come here for strictly modding purposes. They are generally just artists looking to improve their skills. Which, isn't a bad thing.

You're signature, and general attitude, strike me like you think you're superior to other users. I admit, being an older member, I sometimes feel like I'm better than other users, but I try my best to remind myself I'm not. I tell you this because I would want someone to tell me if they thought I was being a righteous prick.

Dear lord. The assumptions. What attitude? What the bloody hell are you talking about? This isn't about superiority. This is about sustaining the site...

I love how you assume that me making light of the stupidity of the first post by putting an out of context line in my sig means that I actually consider myself a god.

If that isn't the case, I apologize, but that's what I understand when I read some of your posts.

Amazing comprehension skills.

None of this has to do with "them vs us." It's about making sure everyone is included in the community, and making sure that the majority of the community (mostly not modders) don't get ran off due to an intense focus on WC3. Now, if you wouldn't mind, reserve your silly and off base judgments for a more appropriate time.

And, I'll say it again, of fucking course there are exceptions. I'm saying the MAJORITY of the core community is here for the fuck of it. This isn't a bad thing. I'm not saying either group is better than the other. Fucking hell.

Btw;
1. Me. Yes I do mod. I don't submit much, but I am active and working on my own shit.
2. Fingolfin. He makes HQ models and has his own big project.
3. Pharaoh_ is a major guy, he's helped many a user with their issues and problems, and he's recently become a mod.
4. The members of FEG, who made Arcadia, and are making Chernobyl Lost Riddles.
5. Grievous1. He has been working his ass off on Paranoia, and was part of FEG. He's also got a BioShock project.
6. Wazzz. Yes, even him. Lol he has started three (or moar) separate squad-based map projects, and is working on another.
7. MiniMage. He recently submitted a Goblin UI, is making another UI, and has his own projects.
8. CR. He does icons and art requests for free. Contributed many resources. You cannot say he only does this for practice and praise.
9. Debode. He is/was working on SoC and has contributed quite a few models.
10. 67chrome. He's submitted FAR too many skins, and has participated in the last few techtree contests.

1. Now remove the community focus. See where that lands you.
2. Which isn't Hive dependent. He's not here FOR that. At least not from what I've heard from him.
3. What the hell does that have to do with his own personal modding focus?
4. Again, not hive dependent.
5. See above?
6. This is wazz. As much as he is working on his own thing, he wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the community focus. Again, community dependent.
7. Refer to my statement about artists. When will you people read what I say?
8. Artists aren't modders dammit. It's personal skill development.
9. Again, artists don't count unless it's for a hive specific project. But, this one is, I'll give you that. But I know debode, and I know that if you were to remove the community focus, he'd leave.
10. See 7.

Casing point, artists don't necessarily come here for wc3 modding, they come here for artistic furthering. Also, as much as there are shitloads of users who make maps, very few of them are actually regularly visiting and interacting members. They come and dump their shit then leave. Hell, it wouldn't even happen if it wasn't for the art databases.

Just because there ARE users who make maps and "mod" content, doesn't mean they are all sustainers of the site. If it wasn't for the community in the center of everything, it would all crumble. On the other hand, if you were to simple remove all the modding content, the community would still remain. This is NOT to say we should remove either ofc, it's just to say that we should be careful what we call the "point of this site."

 

[MiniMage]

I'm amazed that people are still so naive to think that the core community on this site is concerned with modding as a whole in any capacity.

Also, why do I keep being mentioned? I don't understand why I'm being singled out as the instigator of all vulgarity....

As for the modding community, although as you guys have said, this is a Troll Cave, an endless trolling of people who come here with the illusion of that this indeed is a modding site worthy of respect. People assume this is a modding site because people don't visit the forum all that much, some generally avoid it due to past experiences and others avoid it because they don't want anything else other than resources.

You're being singled out because you're kinda a douche. Also, you have a habit of trolling people. Thus, you're an ideal example what not to like about this site.

As a whole, the community here does fly far, far above the rest.

I disagree. Without this sites resources, the place would wither and die due to being one of the worst communities out there. I do agree that there's a double standard in this place, but I couldn't care less about the language used.
As for modding resources, it's the best place to go to, which is also why people tend to assume that modding is still an active part of this place. Which is also why this site has "life". Generally the site seem dedicated to insulting people who are new or people who simply like making maps as they consider it a fun pastime, an excellent hobby. I'm not really sure why, they get trolled with the justification that the law of the jungle applies. Only the strong survives. I'm not sure what the trolls get out of it though.

First and foremost, I would've had no problem with the law of the jungle if I was working with this and got paid, but this is a hobby site. I get nothing from enduring their shit. The intended purpose of this site was to honor the wishes of those who still like creating maps. Thus, it's only purpose is to entertain us.

(Hm, did I post in the wrong thread? God damn these are similar.)

 

[GhostThruster]

Firstly, I would like you to quote me saying that those users aren't community - dependent (not including that line ), or quote yourself saying the list mustn't contain members who are also here for the community.
Secondly, if you cannot find a quote, that means users who would leave without the community aspect would be valid for listing.
Thirdly, that rules out your ruling out of 1, 6, and 9. Also, I couldn't give less of a furbie if all the pony shit died out ie take out all that crap and I'd still be here (maybe if they had a World Editor in Reach, not so much...).
Fourthly, ironic how you were lecturing Gilles about assumptions, and now you go on saying artists only come here for glory and practice and mappers 'dump their shit and leave'.
Fifthly, although making art is not making a map, it is still relevant to modding in that users take those resources and use them in their own mods. That would seem to rule out your ruling out of 7,8, and 10.
Sixthly, I disagree. Sure you and a bunch of your pals would stay, but once the modding aspect is out, so will alot of others be (soz I can't be bothered making another list). The site is still a modding community, regardless if a few people come here to chat and do random shit.
Lastly, before you make your reply, I would like to state that

I guess you are correct with the way the Hive is heading, you don't seem to respect the modding aspect of this site much, and you're mean :/

I never totally disagreed with you, I only believe that the modding community is still worth something and that you shouldn't be so hasty to disregard it.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Okay. I see that this caused a very large amount of Domino effects, and this will keep going on forever, if something isn't done.

@Minimage, I already answered your post in here.

@Vermillion Edict,
There we go again. Mind of stop trying to rise above the others, grow up a little more and act like an adult? Since this is Site Discussion, not an Off-Topic thread, an amount of seriousness is required in here, and that includes to not Troll in the Stop-Trolling threads. Please. Thanks.

 

[ironman47]

@Mr.bob

What you were saying about people "dumping there stuff here and leaving"
I couldn't help feel that comment may have been directed at me since I started this thread. Although you may have been referring to users that maybe just register just so they can upload a map. I myself have seen plenty of that from being on here before. You seem very irritated by this. Do you have to clean up after this dumping or isn't that the moderators job?

You also seem to be offended by my first post :

the stupidity of the first post by putting an out of context line in my sig means that I actually consider myself a god.

That's funny...

A blind man could see your irritation :

In summation, don't fuck with the community because you want everyone to give a shit about wc3.

And why Mr.bob are you so defensive?

What trolls? What problems? What the hell does this have to do with "modding vs community?"

What What What???

Just from reading your posts about new users and as Gilles so bluntly stated "Your general attitude" I get the impression that you don't like new users

This Website and most any other website is a Business. And at this place of business you have customers. We call these customers users. The better customers register, and they are registered users.
Of these registered users what percentage are new users?
I'm pretty sure its a very high percentage.

From a Business standpoint our goal would be:
1. We have to get them here (Traffic)
2.They are happy and continue to visit.

Seriously though Mr.Bob unless you were someone I couldn't live without if this were my website you'd be banned, period.

Speaking from a business point of view. It's nothing personal.

 

[-Derp-]

Seriously though Mr.Bob unless you were someone I couldn't live without if this were my website you'd be banned, period.

Thank god this isn't your website, we need more people like him.

 

[Mr. Bob]

What you were saying about people "dumping there stuff here and leaving" I couldn't help feel that comment may have been directed at me since I started this thread. Although you may have been referring to users that maybe just register just so they can upload a map. I myself have seen plenty of that from being on here before. You seem very irritated by this. Do you have to clean up after this dumping or isn't that the moderators job?

It has nothing to do with you. Don't flatter yourself. :3 I was referring to users who are here for the sole reason of uploading their map. Why would that irritate me? That isn't the problem. You completely misread my post. It's not that sed users shouldn't exist, it's that they simply aren't the people who sustain this site, thus they shouldn't be the only ones catered to.

You also seem to be offended by my first post :

That's funny...

A blind man could see your irritation :


And why Mr.bob are you so defensive?

Great points raised. Helpful, dignified, and astonishing.

What What What???

Just from reading your posts about new users and as Gilles so bluntly stated "Your general attitude" I get the impression that you don't like new users

Read through my post carefully. It's not about new users being bad. It's about them not being the sustaining factor of this site, so they shouldn't be the only ones catered to.

This Website and most any other website is a Business. And at this place of business you have customers. We call these customers users. The better customers register, and they are registered users.
Of these registered users what percentage are new users?
I'm pretty sure its a very high percentage.

From a Business standpoint our goal would be:
1. We have to get them here (Traffic)
2.They are happy and continue to visit.

Right. And who generates more revenue? Regularly visiting members. That's the whole fucking point of "sustaining" factors. Unless you want to turn it into a help board for a dying global fanbase, the core community needs to be maintained.

Seriously though Mr.Bob unless you were someone I couldn't live without if this were my website you'd be banned, period.

Love you too. :3

 

[MiniMage]

It's not that sed users shouldn't exist, it's that they simply aren't the people who sustain this site, thus they shouldn't be the only ones catered to.

So with that said, you feel that you receive no love from the mods? I thought the modders was getting too little love and to much trolling.
Besides, if new people didn't enter this site, you would not longer have no people to successfully troll and you would undoubtedly leave.

Right. And who generates more revenue? Regularly visiting members. That's the whole fucking point of "sustaining" factors. Unless you want to turn it into a help board for a dying global fanbase, the core community needs to be maintained.

It IS a help board for a dying global fanbase, anyone who think different is in denial. The regularly visiting members are 130-140 members tops.
The modders who join and leaves are in the thousands, how is that not generating more revenue? I'm not getting your math here.

At this very second, we got 800 guests and 90-ish members on standby.

Love you too. :3

You're a troll that has been fed enough for you to be classified as overweight. Do you really need to troll more?

 

[Mr. Bob]

So with that said, you feel that you receive no love from the mods? I thought the modders was getting too little love and to much trolling.
Besides, if new people didn't enter this site, you would not longer have no people to successfully troll and you would undoubtedly leave.

What the hell does getting love from mods have to do with anything? It's not "me" that's in question. Core community isn't just "me." It's everyone who regularly is involved with the site. That includes the fucking mods themselves, dammit. If you squeeze that focus out of the picture, you've squeezed the lifeblood of the site out of the picture. I don't understand why people don't like hearing this so much.

It's hilarious how adamant you are about categorizing me as if it somehow lends something to the logic of your argument...

It IS a help board for a dying global fanbase, anyone who think different is in denial. The regularly visiting members are 130-140 members tops.
The modders who join and leaves are in the thousands, how is that not generating more revenue? I'm not getting your math here.

At this very second, we got 800 guests and 90-ish members on standby.

Because the regular members ensure that the others will actually keep coming. Also regular members come every day.

It's tendency to work as a help board doesn't constitute it's life. It's not the sustaining element.

You're a troll that has been fed enough for you to be classified as overweight. Do you really need to troll more?

Did I rape you or something in the past? I honestly have never heard of you before yet you seem to not like my poor wittle self so much. Makes me so sad. :<

How the hell did you expect me to respond to "zomg I dun liek you and if I was big like daddy, I would kick your butt"..?


I FEEL AS THOUGH I'VE SAID MANY WORDS IN THIS THREAD.

 

[MiniMage]

If you squeeze that focus out of the picture, you've squeezed the lifeblood of the site out of the picture. I don't understand why people don't like hearing this so much.

Stop classifying yourself as the lifeblood of this place. You're essentially dead weight.

It's hilarious how adamant you are about categorizing me as if it somehow lends something to the logic of your argument...

When you troll people, you are categorized as a troll, what does that have to do with my argument? You are fairly insecure, so you prefer mocking a person rather than being silent when a man introduces a rhetorical scenario in which he expresses his frustration of being mocked by a person who appears unaffected by the consequences. You've perfected the art of trolling. You know where the line is and being an old member, mods cut you some slack. Then you mock people. What part about this makes you seem less like a troll? If I am adamant at categorizing, you're fairly adamant at proving my point.

Because the regular members ensure that the others will actually keep coming. Also regular members come every day.

I disagree, most regular members do the opposite. You don't attract people, you bully newcomers until they leave or force them to cover down and stand beneath you. I despise that.
It's the logic of bullies. Why are you so adamant that things should be run on your terms? Why do you mock people who are serious instead of talking like an adult?

It's tendency to work as a help board doesn't constitute it's life. It's not the sustaining element.

So you assume that the crackchats about ponies is the thing that fuels this site? Clearly the desire for modding among new members is the driving force of this site. Older members doesn't stay because of the "good" community but rather by nostalgia. New members stay in the community because they hope this community can become good in the future. I agree fully with cleaning up and pulling up the weeds that is trolls so that this site truly can get new life.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Well, seeing as your argument has boiled down to "I don't like Bob, therefore what he says can't be trusted," I don't think there is anywhere to do from here...

I mean, I guess I could respond to each of those, but it appears that no matter what arguments or logical theoretical systems I bring forward, I'm doomed to be met with "U HURT MY FEELINGS. U R TROOOOLL."

EDIT: Ah fuck it, I'll respond.

I SHALL INDEED BITE

Stop classifying yourself as the lifeblood of this place. You're essentially dead weight.

Let's break down what I said and see if that's what I was implying:

(1)-If you- (2)-squeeze- (3)-that focus- (4)-out of the picture,- (5)-you've squeezed- (6)-the lifeblood of the site- (7)-out of the picture.-

(1) Conditional statement regarding any controlling party involved.
(2) Negative action
(3) Category of Implementation and Structuring
(4) A state of voidness or annulment.
(5) Logical Leading Deduction
(6) Result
(7) A state of voidness or annulment.

NOT SURE WHERE I COME INTO THAT, BUT OK.
Love you too!

When you troll people, you are categorized as a troll, what does that have to do with my argument? You are fairly insecure, so you prefer mocking a person rather than being silent when a man introduces a rhetorical scenario in which he expresses his frustration of being mocked by a person who appears unaffected by the consequences. You've perfected the art of trolling. You know where the line is and being an old member, mods cut you some slack. Then you mock people. What part about this makes you seem less like a troll? If I am adamant at categorizing, you're fairly adamant at proving my point.

Do I troll? I can recall telling things like I see them...but not trolling for the fuck of it... Also, I'm not a particularly old member...

I disagree, most regular members do the opposite. You don't attract people, you bully newcomers until they leave or force them to cover down and stand beneath you. I despise that.
It's the logic of bullies. Why are you so adamant that things should be run on your terms? Why do you mock people who are serious instead of talking like an adult?

I don't recall doing any such thing...but ok... Again, do I know you? Did I do something horrible to you in the past or some shit?

So you assume that the crackchats about ponies is the thing that fuels this site? Clearly the desire for modding among new members is the driving force of this site. Older members doesn't stay because of the "good" community but rather by nostalgia. New members stay in the community because they hope this community can become good in the future. I agree fully with cleaning up and pulling up the weeds that is trolls so that this site truly can get new life.

Right. Because, when I say "core community," I'm clearly referring to anyone who is a fan of the pony franchise...

I love the "oldfags will be oldfags" argument. Really, grade A stuff.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but there are rather large community circles that tend to hold together and keep things running. Most of which have their own way of thinking, but none the less, it's rather effective.

 

[Mr. Bob]

It's not "me" that's in question. Core community isn't just "me." It's everyone who regularly is involved with the site. That includes the fucking mods themselves, dammit.

I don't even remember calling myself a member of the core community. I just spoke to it's existence. That's a lot of shitty assumptions to be made there, dear gilles.

I'll just leave this here. I could repeat myself again, but that doesn't seem to work for some reason.