Warcraft 3 Ashes of the Lord

[phoenixfire]

Alright - one final question.

Is there any theme the melee maps should follow? Since there is only 9 I could probably finish them in the upcoming 2-3 weeks. Can I just make a lot of them, based on my personal preferences and then we just choose 9 of them? Or do you want to give me a proper layout of exactly how each map should be?

 

[_lycan]

i'm giving that thing to you since you're the terrainer not me. though i would still recommend you try to make the map the most competitive possible. and not a monotone only 1 side to attack map

 

[Lord Cat]

Ashes, what do you plan the races to be? A little background lore could probably help with ideas for the terrains and doodads / etc.

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If you need any ideas for campaigns, I've got many suggestions you could use.

Human Campaign Suggestions -

• Darius Crowley's Rebellion (Still human)( Greymane Manor, Gilnean Wall, Gilneas) - Darius Crowley
• Retaking of Gnomeregan (Tinker Town, Gnomeregan, Ironforge, Shadowforge, Grim Batol, Wetlands) -Brann Bronzebeard
• Hold The Wall (Gilnean wall, Shadowfang Keep, Fenrir Keep, Dalaran Ruins) -(insert new person's name here)
• Diplomatic Error (Theramore, Orgrimmar, Thunder Bluff, Zul'Farrak) - Jaina Proudmoore
• Crusader's Memories (Scarlet Bastion, Tyr's Hand, Light's End, Stratholme) - Renault Morgraine / Darion Morgraine / Saiden

Orcish Campaign Suggestions -

• Diplomatic Error (Theramore, Orgrimmar, Thunder Bluff, Zul'Farrak) - Thrall Doomhammer
• To Rally The Clans (Zul'Farrak, Uldamon, Theramore, Orgrimmar) - Rexxar
• The Mindflayer's Loyal (Blasted Lands, Wetlands, the Sunken Temple)
• Mag'har Madness (Outland) - Garrosh Hellscream
• Against the Maddened (Outland, Blasted Lands) (Fel Orcs, Mag'har, Blood Elves)

Undead Campaign Suggestions

• The Birth of the Second Plague (Undercity, Scarlet Monastery, Gilnean Wall, Shadowfang Keep, Dalaran Ruins[ which would be becoming a forsaken outpost] - Puturess
• Demonic Intent (Undercity, Scarlet Monastery, Shadowfang Keep [ takes place when Varthimas betrays Sylvanas.) - Varthimas
• Shattering the Savior's Soul (Stratholme, Tyr's Hand, Scholomance, [battle between Kel'Thuzard and Darion Morgraine.] -Kel'Thuzard
• The Wretched (Ruins of Silvermoon City, New Silvermoon, Ghostlands, Zul'Aman) -King Aladdin of the Wretched

Night Elf Suggestions

• Wrath of the Illadari (Outland, Blasted Lands, Westfall, Stormwind) - Illadin
• Depths of Outland (Outland, Terrokar Forest, Auchidon, Black Temple) - Maiev [Maiev's Gurriela Warfare in Outland, her capturing, and her escape.]
• The Sunken City (Sunken Ruins - Eye of Guldan, Vashjir Plains, Kul'Trias, Balor) -Nashia [Nashia and a small amount of survivors survived the sinking, only to be transformed into the vile naga....]
• Cenarion Expedition Cenarion Expedition Base, Zul'Farrak, Uldamon) - Natalie
• Northern Expedition (Grizzly Hills, Borean Tundra, Howling Fjords) - [insert new hero here]

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Just ask and I'll give an in-depth explanation of any of those suggestions.

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First Explanation so far - Cenarion Expedition

Natalie and a group of her elves are hunting down a note's maker, against Mana'lith's better judgement. She heads to the ogre encampment over where Valor's Rest would later be built. Many of her forces die, but she's able to capture the orgish lord and maker of said note. She interrogates him and finds out slowly of what was spoken - a dark power rising south. C'thun. She protects the re-purposed ogre citadel against a centaur raid, most of her men dying in the crossfire. She returns to Mana'lith and warns of C'thun, but all she sees in the men are the seeds of corruption. Taking a few of her loyal brethren with her, she moves the group south and prepares to siege C'thun's fortress. In the battle, Natalie is captured, but not slain... [Cool-cutscene of Natalie becoming a priest of C'thun.][basic outline]

The Birth of the Second Plague

Puturess helps Sylvanas and her forces retake what's left of Lordaeron, battling strongly at Scarlet Monastery before killing it and it's leader Archbishop Centilitre. Centilitre is risen and the two construct the Sepulcher, facing heavy resistance in the area from the humans and worgen who's corpses quickly fuel the Forsaken war machine. Puturess is ordered by Varthimas to take the ruins of Dalaran for a fortress, and thus she leads a force of undead through the Gilnean lands to reach it. Shadowfang Keep proves to be a bother on her way and her forces quickly storm it, killing Argul. With his death, the worgen curse is released upon Gilneas and Pyrewood Village. The worgen of Pyrewood surrender to Puturess and are used to battle the gilnean forces on the wall. Puturess reaches Dalaran and crushes the undead resistance their, constructing New Dalaran from it's ruins, a necropolis of darkness as thousands of undead were raised from the ruins.[Basic outline.]

 

[phoenixfire]

The races, I believe, will stay the same. I really love your ideas, and if they arn't decided to be implemented I might do some campaign with them when I'm bored and finish some of my current projects.

On a side topic, would you be willing to give me some suggestions for missions once I get some lore out about the current side-project campaign I'm working on? I like to plan things out, and your ideas are inventive.

 

[_lycan]

the only multiplayer race that is planned to be replaced by now are humans
--------
Also remember that this is not wow ..
this continues directly from the rise of the lich king (arthas in TFT).
Scarlet crusade is totally Lorelol since in Roc mostly all humans die and in TFT arthas kills the rest . and sylvanas kills the survivors..

the forsaken will have a campaign.
stormwind will have a campaign
blood elfs will have a campaign (with nagas).
night elfs also a campaign
undead a campaign .
Horde will have a campaign.

some of factions will have a really small campaign like to show what happened to them
or if they are still alive. some may have missions inside another ones campaign example:
stormwind attacks blackrock . next mission you are blackrock and need to destroy stormwind small towns and outposts to be able to attack. and then in next mission you are stormwind again and you Get to defend stormwind for several minutes of the attacking Horde. without being able to build anything just with your actual units and heroes.


also in first page (one of my posts) i posted what will be the order of the campaigns.

--------------
another note. we've not found yet someone who can do cinematics so i can't start making the complete campaign until we find someone who is skilled with that.
i think i'm going to ask the dude who made this campaign if he could help (IT'S NOT ASHES OF THE LORD):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j07t-aPeEOU&feature=player_embedded
or if not i would need to make a thread for one or update the other one asking for people

 

[phoenixfire]

I can make terrain for cinematics, but I can never really get those right with the cameras/dialog

 

[_lycan]

yeah me 2 my cinematics suck so hard xD. they move wrong and other stuff.

 

[phoenixfire]

Right, I've never actually done a Melee map, so I'll be practicing some more simplistic terrains today. I'm more of a Custom Game/Scenario person

 

[_lycan]

hahaha. melee shouldn't be that hard to do . it's more time than difficulty, on the other hand . i got B2M high quality terrain but what tiles i should replace for his high quality terrain? because editing slk files in editor and making them work and all only for 5 custom tiles isn't that Productive also there are some stuff in slk that i don't understand. i guess theres are a tileset that people don't actually need and i can replace it for it.

 

[phoenixfire]

I'm sorry, but I don't even know what slk is lol.
You should decide right now if we're using B2M's and other high-quality terrain tiles or blizzard tiles. Combining them (like having one map have blizzard tiles for a snowy effect, then another have his tiles for a forest effect) will have a drastic change and look horrid in my opinion. I have to study up on melee maps to see which stores are required, proper placement, how to make the map completely symmetrical (i'm not very good at perfect symmetry) and that stuff XD


What map sizes should we use? 64x64 seems too small to me, so I'm guessing 96x96 for 1v1s, 2v2s and then 128x128 for 3v3s and 4v4s, 160x160 for 5v5s and 6v6s? 160x160 is pretty big, but I think 128x128 would be too small for 6v6...

 

[WillofKhrone]

I'm not quite sure if I read that right. Are you saying that Gilneas is a wow-lore only thing? It's not.

 

[_lycan]

no i'm not saying it's wow lore , i'm saying the part where they become werewolfs is wow lore . and gilneas was near dalaran so it was supposed to already have fallen since archimonde spawned there. the only human kingdom that survived is stormwind. at least in my mod.

maybe in an expansion pack i could make an extra campaign featuring gilneas or what remained of it but i don't think so at least for now.

 

[WillofKhrone]

Gilneas was "indestructible" for most of WC3's lore, it's wall was impervious, and it's sea-watch was strong. The undead in WC3 were also stupid, so it's hard to think that they'd go on a boat around it. Dalaran IS near Gilneas, but Gilneas is out of the way.
But whatever, it's your mod.

 

[_lycan]

you think archimonde lord of destruction and of the burning legion , that was able to destroy the world tree and kill even malorne father of a demi god and crushed dalaran with a single spell can't destroy a single city?.
have you seen gilneas in wow it doesn't look indestructible for archimonde only for stupid armies of mortals. gilneas was like troya. it got destroyed by its inside.

i don't want to discuss about lore because , i'm trying to release lore stuff really slow and mostly will be released in the official release. i don't want people know how will be the game before they play it.
however since i don't want to make think people that this campaign will be dumb.
gilneas WILL appear in the campaign , the forsaken will be the ones who will be the enemy of it.

once you get to gilneas in the forsaken campaign you will first need to destroy the remainants of the scourge that are attacking gilneas and after that you will be attacking it since sylvanas wants to get control of more undeads. and to do that she needs to kill more humans

 

[_lycan]

I'm sorry, but I don't even know what slk is lol.
You should decide right now if we're using B2M's and other high-quality terrain tiles or blizzard tiles. Combining them (like having one map have blizzard tiles for a snowy effect, then another have his tiles for a forest effect) will have a drastic change and look horrid in my opinion. I have to study up on melee maps to see which stores are required, proper placement, how to make the map completely symmetrical (i'm not very good at perfect symmetry) and that stuff XD


What map sizes should we use? 64x64 seems too small to me, so I'm guessing 96x96 for 1v1s, 2v2s and then 128x128 for 3v3s and 4v4s, 160x160 for 5v5s and 6v6s? 160x160 is pretty big, but I think 128x128 would be too small for 6v6...

hmm i guess we will stick up with blizzard tiles but. i i will import lot of doodads for other stuff after all. tiles aren't that big in filesize if someone wants to use one or all the tileset for an rpg won't be that hard to import and since he won't need to import lots of models and stuff there will be no problem.

 

[_lycan]

Updated.
added all my work this days.
please notice i'm not being lazy.
i got to edit every model i import to change path of textures inside magos i got to resave to mdl every model so i'm able to do that and then re-resave and after that import again..
that for every model.

only some more models left to import + icons
and then the mods mpqs will be completed.

 

[Sky Green]

Well this is gonna be awesome... I can't wait for it! I could help you with some ideas if needed also +rep

 

[_lycan]

you can post ideas here if you want. i'll consider which ones are good and try to add them.

 

[ZeusLT]

Other resources other than wood and gold

 

[_lycan]

Other resources other than wood and gold

if you mean changing gold (wood would be nearby impossible)
it could be possible (maybe to Oil or minerals).

but adding more stuff is Impossible for Wc3 Engine.
at least for a none hard coder that can edit wc3 engine
+ knows how to do Uis (high quality Uis he would need to do one for every race) + models+ more shit.
just for a resource would be a lot for an expansion . after all it's just an expansion..

 

[phoenixfire]

Why would wood be nearly impossible...? It's easy to change and make the trees doodads

 

[_lycan]

yeah but first it would take off a lot of melee strategies based in cutting wood.
then. trees would be only used as doodads. and then making the new system for the new resource. in every map i got to import that system. you see what i mean?

if you still want that i'll do it , though it'll take at least 6 months or more. only to do,import(to all maps) get resources. + new ui for every race. (maps= campaign + melee maps + new made up maps in the editor wouldn't have the new resource system so it would be totally weird to have different systems. + people using old systems wouldn't be compatible with new Ui.

 

[phoenixfire]

yeah but first it would take off a lot of melee strategies based in cutting wood.
then. trees would be only used as doodads. and then making the new system for the new resource. in every map i got to import that system. you see what i mean?

if you still want that i'll do it , though it'll take at least 6 months or more. only to do,import(to all maps) get resources. + new ui for every race. (maps= campaign + melee maps + new made up maps in the editor wouldn't have the new resource system so it would be totally weird to have different systems. + people using old systems wouldn't be compatible with new Ui.

I really don't see the problem, considering you don't even need to make a system for it. All you need to do is change the field then make another doodad replace the gold mine/tree destructible and make it harvest lumber.

 

[Lord Cat]

Uh...

Actually, I can provide you with a new resource SUGGESTION right here.
Oil.

"No durr, that takes a shit load of coding thou"
Yeah, no. It'd replace food, oh boo hoo.
Units would now be able to make Oil Refineries (land), Docking Stations (land-on-coast), Naval Units, Tanks, and Off-Shore Oil Refineries and Off-Shore Docking Stations.

 

[_lycan]

Uh...

Actually, I can provide you with a new resource SUGGESTION right here.
Oil.

"No durr, that takes a shit load of coding thou"
Yeah, no. It'd replace food, oh boo hoo.
Units would now be able to make Oil Refineries (land), Docking Stations (land-on-coast), Naval Units, Tanks, and Off-Shore Oil Refineries and Off-Shore Docking Stations.

why tanks? we're in medieval age.
so you want me to replace food with oil and oil the only thing it would do would be let you create tanks and ships.

another thing you would use oil to create units?.

i actually don't understand why people care of replacing resources , wc3 resources are fine. and are the most common ones.
what i could add would be oil in water and you can build a building in that spot . once you build it that building gives you income of 30 gold per minute.

that would help players try also a ship strategy.
we could add some islands with trees so people could go totally a marine strategy.


and could also have farms that would use models such like
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/plantation-156133/?prev=search=farm&d=list&r=20


or
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/farm-158793/?prev=search=farm&d=list&r=20

 

[phoenixfire]

You could always combine wood and gold under a resource called "Materials" and make "Oil" replace wood and then make wood only make some things. Though ya, I see how complicated that's gonna get.

 

[_lycan]

ok materials. and what would be its model? a tree? no because it would just be wood .
a gold mine? nope also would be only gold.

you know there's a reason why there hasn't been a single map except the wc2 beta map made by a hive user that used a system only for oil and with that system custom maps wouldn't look good because it obstructs vision. and maps like dota which use another system for kills and all would crash with the oil one.


however i may replace human buildings with mr bobs ones.

his buildings are more stormwind like . he got even better ships.

 

[Lord Cat]

I.. no, that's not what I meant.

You'd no longer have food for a resource, but instead oil would be used for mechanical units, such as the goblin or dwarven tanks, gnomish helicopters, and the like.

That's just what I'm suggesting, though.

 

[_lycan]

yeah you no longer have food as resource.

and then normal units would use oil instead of food?!
--------------
edit i've added a new folder in the warcraft 3 directory.
named tutorials.
i'll post there some starting tutorials and also a link to hive

 

[phoenixfire]

No, oil would equal a resource such as gold or lumber instead of as a limit. Also, there are LOTS of maps that have different resources - a lot of which have oil. There really isn't only one. You also don't need "Systems" to replace materials.

However, it would effect game play a lot in melee maps, so it's not the best choice, as I previously stated.

 

[_lycan]

what i mean is that you need a multiboard and as you said it will affect lot of maps.
there would be no space for another multiboard such as in Azeroth wars or DotA.

+ new people would need to import all the units , new requirements for every units + buildings+ triggers for the multiboard on every map.
which means that if he wants to use the oil stuff + import his stuff from his old wc3 map he can't because one of them will replace the other one.

it would mess with lot of stuff.


also multiboards are visible to all players.

 

[phoenixfire]

what i mean is that you need a multiboard and as you said it will affect lot of maps.
there would be no space for another multiboard such as in Azeroth wars or DotA.

+ new people would need to import all the units , new requirements for every units + buildings+ triggers for the multiboard on every map.
which means that if he wants to use the oil stuff + import his stuff from his old wc3 map he can't because one of them will replace the other one.

it would mess with lot of stuff.


also multiboards are visible to all players.

You don't need a multiboard...

 

[_lycan]

Update !!!.

added first screenshots from a melee TFT/Roc map (booty bay) with Aotl Units/doodads/destructibles etc

 

[phoenixfire]

Looks good - just that the custom mdoels arn't really Warcraft-y. It'll probly work out - but decrease the size of some of them (like the windmills intersect with eachother)

 

[_lycan]

Looks good - just that the custom mdoels arn't really Warcraft-y. It'll probly work out - but decrease the size of some of them (like the windmills intersect with eachother)

yeah it was just to show the models i've found for stormwind alliance.
and yeah they are currently using farms replaced for windmills the will be fixed later

 

[Lord Cat]

You could make it so farms upgrade into Greenhouse, then greenhouses produce increased food and can train peasants?

 

[_lycan]

i was so excited about my mod working hard on it , and i realized that my wc3 was in spanish... now idk what i'll do i don't want to restart my whole work again!

 

[phoenixfire]

Just switch it to English, its not that hard...

 

[_lycan]

if i switch it to english it will replace the warcraft 3 mpq and that would reset all changes..

 

[phoenixfire]

Why would it reset the MPQ?

 

[_lycan]

because i would need to replace all the english files scripts and stuff that is in spanish to english and to do that and find them all i could only do it replacing the mpq..

 

[phoenixfire]

Can't you copy paste or something similar?

 

[Lord Cat]

Can't you just replace the language folder?

 

[_lycan]

there isn't a language folder..
edit .
i noticed the folder that i got in spanish is the war3.mpq since i used war3version switcher before editing the mod it changed my war3x.mpq into english, now i need to find the custom textures i imported to there (and Ui) and re-import them.
can someone upload their war3.mpq to mediafire?
because i don't think someone will have uploaded it on latest version since 1.26 came out only some months ago.

 

[_lycan]

anyways i won't touch that mpq for now i'll replace later , what i actually need is some terrain for human campaign right now, should be a bit better that blizzard stuff.
1 of it should be stormwind interiors , the other map , stormwind exteriors with some parts of elwyn forest, and also a map in duskwood(i'm not sure the name) that village got worgens and undead outside.

 

[phoenixfire]

I don't feel inspired to terrain without a storyline. Could you message me the storyline for the campaigns?

 

[_lycan]

ok, i'll message you the storyline for the human campaign.

 

[The General]

im liking the skins can i get a list of skins?

 

[phoenixfire]

He's not using skins in any of the screenshots?

 

[_lycan]

He's not using skins in any of the screenshots?

i'm actually for peasants, footman,mage and knight only , the rest are pure models, the complete list of changed stuff will be released with the release of the complete version of the mod.
please i don't want to repeat this. till the mod is complete don't ask for stuff.
all this stuff will be available with the release. and in the editor/mpq.