Update to the Spell Section?

[Anachron]

Update Spell Section [Idea: JASS-Code is required]

Hey all. As more as I review spells code as more I can see that spell submitters are to lazy to post their JASS code to the spellpage.

I thought about making a rule, if, when you submit a spell and mark JASS, you have to post the code aswell...

Its really annoying for me to need to open it in the Editor just to see the code.

Edit:
As now the discussion becomes bigger and bigger, I suggest reading the whole Thread.

The most important posts are as following:
Gui also?
Already working on it?
A few pro statements
Post code if extractor fails
Second idea
Another pros for this changes

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Sounds like a good idea.

 

[M4stah]

Maybe, but for judging spells need to be tested in-game so you would have to open the map anyway.

 

[Anachron]

Yeah, but there are alot of systems right now which does not post the systems code, and I don't need to see the examples code, I just want to research the systems code, without needing wc3 or WE.

 

[Deaod]

Maybe, but for judging spells need to be tested in-game so you would have to open the map anyway.

No, not necessarily, most reviews i do are pure code reviews. I never acutally test the spell, but instead i try to figure out what could go wrong. Also, i assume spells are submitted in a working state.

 

[Anachron]

So, you support my request?

 

[Deaod]

Totally.

 

[Anachron]

Good, so I new a few additional good scripters, like DSG, CG and PP to get this changing.

 

[Deuterium]

Ok, this is something that should be done not only to Jass, but to GUI too... however, mods are waiting for v1.24 to apply the new rules and purge the spell section 2 weeks after the release.

One more thing, this conversation happened a few months ago about Ralle working on a trigger extractor which automatically posts the triggers in a neat manner in the thread description once the resource is uploaded. I don't know what happened concerning that and on whether it works or not.

Yet and however, if it should be done manually yes there should be a strict rule on that. I mean I myself updated my only spell a month ago to post my triggers as to make it easier for others to deal with...

Hope I cleared some issues up.

 

[Dr Super Good]

This seems pretty pointless and usless. Honestly opening a map takes 10 seconds once WE is cached especially since spell maps are so simple.

Also on top of that it would be easier just to make some form of trigger extraction script so you can view the maps triggers from the browser. Wait a moment, Ralle was making one of those if I remember, thus finalizing why this idea is pointless.

Also for judging spells, may I remind people that you are actually meant to have tested it atleast once ingame... As game engine bugs are not apparent from triggers.

Thus my colclusion is it is entirly optional if an author does that or not. As you should end up viewing the spell in WE anyway and also there may be scripts to do this for you in the future embeded into the sites so it is automatically done for everyone.

 

[calex3]

GUI spells could have this too! http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/spells-569/giant-anger-final-135092/

 

[PurplePoot]

Ralle is already working on an extractor, as several people have said (for both GUI and JASS).

 

[Anachron]

Nice, thanks Ralle and PurplePoot!

 

[Deuterium]

This seems pretty pointless and usless. Honestly opening a map takes 10 seconds once WE is cached especially since spell maps are so simple.

Well yes true, but having it in the thread description sometimes allow you not to download one badly done spell - of which there are many - and also allows the person to check the code wherever he is (although I don't see the point of that, but lets say someone is REALLY bored at school with nothing better to do).

As for the practicality of this really is, let's say you checked the spell using WE, the other day as the spell is being discussed, you don't have to reopen the map after every comment to re-check the trigger. Other than that, I see it has no use (some people want it to avoid downloading and opening the map with WE, but would checking without test do any good?)

 

[Anachron]

allows the person to check the code wherever he is (although I don't see the point of that, but lets say someone is REALLY bored at school with nothing better to do).

Lol, thats bad said. I sometimes have time to review spells, whether I am in train, school, work or at home. I shouldn'T have to use the WE just to check how something is scripted, if I don't want to test it at that time.

It also allows you to see the diffrents faster and you can see the spells scripting at the first page, which will decrease amount of downloads of bad spells.

 

[Deuterium]

Lol, thats bad said. I sometimes have time to review spells, whether I am in train, school, work or at home

Well I didn't expect people to check hive when they're out excuse me for that xD

 

[Anachron]

Well I didn't expect people to check hive when they're out excuse me for that xD

Ya, traveling with train can become very bored if you do it everyday. But w/e...
I think there are much pros for changing it.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

I vote yes.
I think however that a [jasshidden] tag would also be of great use for such a purpose.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Someone should create a poll for this, if it's not already created.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Ralle is already working on an extractor, as several people have said (for both GUI and JASS).

That's lolworthy. There's no way for Ralle to extract only the spell from the .w3x, it'd include all of the libraries as well. People should just post it, otherwise they can consider their spells automatically rejected.

 

[Anachron]

That's lolworthy. There's no way for Ralle to extract only the spell from the .w3x, it'd include all of the libraries as well. People should just post it, otherwise they can consider their spells automatically rejected.

My words... I will add a poll now.
Edit: I can't... Damnit.

 

[Deuterium]

Well about the program, there are two things - I already mentioned this:
that either all triggers would show in hidden tags, or that either the user should follow a certain pattern of naming folders in which he has triggers that shouldn't be shown - which is more complicated then posting the triggers themselves.

 

[PurplePoot]

It couldn't be perfect, indeed, but removing at least the majority of the crap should be doable (especially by just removing stuff within library/endlibrary).

 

[Anachron]

Yeah, extractor would be wrong for spells, but maybe not for maps.
Simply add a rule that prevents JASS scripts to be posted without posting the code in the thread, actually. It will make much things easier.

 

[Deuterium]

Yeah rule is easier and better.

(especially by just removing stuff within library/endlibrary)

Some people use library/endlibrary for their spells... so that would be another issue.

 

[Anachron]

Don't forget guys, its the Spells Sections, but has Spells AND Systems. Therefore we WOULD have to make a diffrence, which would let us select whether its a System or spell.
But, I would vote for letting the mappers doing it on their own, its 5 seconds and helps us reviewing and getting bad spells from this side and removes traffic of really awful stuff.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Ralle is already working on an extractor, as several people have said (for both GUI and JASS).

This is a good idea IMO. So what if libraries are also extracted ? There is no problem, in fact the reader can know immediately which systems the spell uses and which versions.
I would support this idea.

It couldn't be perfect, indeed, but removing at least the majority of the crap should be doable (especially by just removing stuff within library/endlibrary).

Bad idea, some newb Jassers actually code their spells as libraries, so doing that would remove the spell itself. You can't distinguish between a spell's code and a system's code.

Don't forget guys, its the Spells Sections, but has Spells AND Systems. Therefore we WOULD have to make a diffrence, which would let us select whether its a System or spell.

I remember Hive having separated sections for GUI, JASS and others. Ralle just screwed up and merged everything. Ralle would, sooner or later, mess up again with your division, and we would have to merge all sort of stuff again...

 

[Deaod]

some newb Jassers actually code their spells as libraries

I feel offended. I dont do this because im new to vJass or anything like that, i do it for readability, and to get errors when im missing a library.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Sry about offending you xD
You can have the same readability using a "scope" and you get the same errors ... Libraries were initially designed for systems, people know that. IMO using a library for a purpose that it was not it's original purpose is something that shouldn't happen.

Anyway, my apologies once more.

 

[Anachron]

Agreed to Flame_Phoenix, Librarys actually should only be used for systems, not for spells.

 

[Deaod]

scope Spell
    // blah
endscope

vs.

library Spell uses A, Few, Other, Libraries
    // blah
endlibrary

and

Line 9001: Undeclared function Foobar

vs.

Line 9002: Missing library requirement: Foo

Pick whatever you want, ill stick to libraries. Oh and library initializers cant screw up anything really. Each one is run in its own virtual thread, whereas with scopes you can screw up all subsequently initialized scopes by crashing the thread (at least thats what i think can happen, i should probably verify this again somewhen, Vex might have changed a few things).

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

ach one is run in its own virtual thread, whereas with scopes you can screw up all subsequently initialized scopes by crashing the thread (at least thats what i think can happen, i should probably verify this again somewhen, Vex might have changed a few things).

Scope initializers can't screw up anything afaik. I support you though, some one should ask Vex this questions.

 

[Deuterium]

library/scope for spells is just a matter of taste... some of the advanced vJassers happen to use libraries...

 

[PurplePoot]

Then require that people submit their code if the extractor fails to.

 

[Anachron]

That sucks... Come one really, the extractor needs some time. And additionally, it should be a 100% solution, not half and half. Just do it 100% at the uploaders costs, or 100% to the hiveworkshop script unzipper...

 

[PurplePoot]

Anyhow, I'll tag this on to the list of new rules for the spells section in the mean time (for older spells, the mods can just do it when they review them).

 

[Anachron]

Sounds good.

 

[Deuterium]

Well, well done =)

This is gonna apply to GUI and Jass, or only Jass?

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

What about hiddenjass tags .. will someone add them?

 

[Deuterium]

The rule should include that hiding codes is a must...

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

ALso, if we are going to force people to show the core of their codes, then the rules should also force people to specify and give links to the resources they used to make the codes.

 

[Deuterium]

Isn't that already a must, ie:

This spell uses JNGP

 

[Anachron]

Yeah...

ANOTHER IDEA:
Spell/System uploader can check what Tool is used.

Like WE-Tools:

• WE
• WEU
• JNGP
• OTHER (Add input field here)

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

People just say the names, I say they should also provide links.

 

[Anachron]

With the selection your system gets an Area named: Required Systems and Tools. This area will give you links and short information about tools and system used in the map.

 

[Deuterium]

Yupp providing links is necessary, but using a program for that is just simple technology obsession, let those lazy people do something, or get rejected...

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

I don't see why it is obsession.
I agree with Anachron, it would made the process easier and more user friendly.

 

[Anachron]

Hmm?
I mean, its optional to do that.

And which good mapper does not say 'You need JNGP' to open this or requires TimerUtils. Those systems are placed everywhere, we can simply provide information about it to make it

1.) Easier to change,

2.) Easier for the importers, when they know what they actually need.

3.) Easier for the uploader, because he only needs to select what he used (And the other optional settable).

4.) This will give more information about system and tools as most users give with their spells, with less work.

Also, this could become a useful thing, for example, we could add additional select inputs, in which you choose the working Wc3 versions for your spell.

 

[Deuterium]

Ohhh now I understand, when uploading there could be a table with checks, and we start checking what we need =)

 

[Anachron]

Yeah true,... thats what I meant...