Terrain Classes

[MasterTrainer]

OMG! this is much more hard than learn how to code! lolz...

I'm going to paraphrase Kitabatake here: "Terraining is easy to learn, but hard to master"

 

[InfernalTater]

Well, don't worry, guys, just a couple weeks till classes start! I want to give people time to learn about them so they can be there starting from the first session. If we start too early, people might show up late and miss important lessons.

I'm already working out my "lesson plan" for each session, and when classes start I'll make terrain and record videos.

 

[mckill2009]

Good, be waiting for it TLI-Inferno, meanwhile have a rep...

 

[bethmachine]

Hey there people I want to showcase you a few of my terrain.Please tell me what to help improve here because I want to be a learner at this class.

screenshots

Please tell me on ways to improve this terrain.

 

[Xonok]

Hey there people I want to showcase you a few of my terrain.Please tell me what to help improve here because I want to be a learner at this class.

screenshots

Please tell me on ways to improve this terrain.

Use a fog. Always use a fog.

Also, some more little doodads. Atm you got big trees and houses, but there's also plain ground without shrubs or anything.

 

[InfernalTater]

Hey there people I want to showcase you a few of my terrain.Please tell me what to help improve here because I want to be a learner at this class.

screenshots

Please tell me on ways to improve this terrain.

The imported content looks really nice, but the actual terraining effort needs improvement. The water is too straight, and the ground is too flat. I'll be teaching you better methods in a couple of weeks when classes start.

Could you send me the trees and terrain tiles used in that? Some of those look really nice, and I'm sure the classes would like access to them.

 

[bethmachine]

I will compress it into a zip file and send it later for the glory of the class. =)

 

[InfernalTater]

I will compress it into a zip file and send it later for the glory of the class. =)

I'd like it ahead of time, I'm going to need it before I start teaching so that it can be built into my lessons.

 

[Gilles]

This does not belong in Site Discussion. Why not move it to Terrain Forum?

 

[InfernalTater]

This does not belong in Site Discussion. Why not move it to Terrain Forum?

Because this is discussing the creating of the class. The actual class will take place in the terrain forum.

 

[Binsu]

Looks like we are making good progress here and beth, nice terrain but I agree to all TLI's points... quite straight river that is and also flat.

To add, add some decors near the trees and also try mixing tiles because it will give you a good result.... well depending on how you did it.

 

[Kaizer]

hey guys, I just wanna show you a terrain from a melee map of mine that was never release

what do you think?

(how do you add a sky? [not show, because it only shows white shi*t])

Terrain

 

[Binsu]

hey guys, I just wanna show you a terrain from a melee map of mine that was never release

what do you think?

(how do you add a sky? [not show, because it only shows white shi*t])

Terrain

View attachment 126263

Looks good but:

• Terrain is flat, you should use Raise/Lower tool to make different levels in the ground
  
• Mix tiles to give a better and beautiful result.
  
• Add some Birds into the terrain to make it livelier

Well, you can just go to Scenario >>> Map Preferences and change the skies there and I prefer too add Cloud doodads to it. But you should use UTM or either export the clouds and make it there.

 

[Kaizer]

updated it (there's a reason why the map is named that way )
- added sky
- apply raised (not really noticeable )

Terrain

 

[MasterTrainer]

hey guys, I just wanna show you a terrain from a melee map of mine that was never release

what do you think?

(how do you add a sky? [not show, because it only shows white shi*t])

Terrain

View attachment 126263

You want to add skies? Explore the Screnario tab of the Editor. It will help you a lot.

Also, you might want to avoid using the blizzard cliffs, even in making melee maps. When I first submitted my melee map, it used a lot of b_cliffs, but now I regret them.

Natural cliffs made with the Raise/Lower tool create a more beautiful and natural effect.

Remember to add some kind of fog to the map, and maybe some regional weathering too.

 

[Binsu]

updated it (there's a reason why the map is named that way )
- added sky
- apply raised (not really noticeable )

Terrain

View attachment 126265

Looks much better. Also raise the ground a little bit, make it noticeable but if that will make it bad in shape, disregard.

Also Blizzard cliffs looks fine to me nothing to change on it for me. =)

Another one, make different scaling to the trees so it will be random and also much more realistic. Making it same with sizes looks dull.

But nice job on this, +4 REP!

 

[Kaizer]

@MasterTrainer Hell_Master already thought me how to add skies
are there any othere cliffs? :

@Hell_Master thanks for the tips, will apply that. but on variating the sizes of the trees, do I create many doodads in the object manager with different scalings?

Here's another part of the map, this is my first attempt on making a waterfall

Terrain 2

 

[MasterTrainer]

You don't have to create custom doodads or destructibles, just edit the Editor - Maximum/Minimum scale of the doodad/destructible you want then place that in the editor. Make sure both fields have a significant difference.

 

[Binsu]

@MasterTrainer Hell_Master already thought me how to add skies
are there any othere cliffs? :

@Hell_Master thanks for the tips, will apply that. but on variating the sizes of the trees, do I create many doodads in the object manager with different scalings?

Here's another part of the map, this is my first attempt on making a waterfall

Terrain 2

View attachment 126267

Edit the Trees Max and Min Scale. Suggested is that the Max size is not nearer to Min Size so they will have big changes in the size.

For the Waterfall, add some birds as I said to make it livelier and some decors at the water such as Fishes and such.... also rocks. Also I can also prefer Corals.

 

[Kaizer]

ok, will do. You 2 should really be teachers or reviewers here in class

 

[Binsu]

>.> No, I dont have the skills XD

 

[MasterTrainer]

Don't speak for me please. I don't like it when people do that.

 

[Binsu]

Don't speak for me please. I don't like it when people do that.

Changed my statement XD

 

[InfernalTater]

I'm not a moderator or administrator to decide this, but I don't think either of you should be teaching yet.

I'm not saying you're newbs; you're not, you do have some experience and some abilities. It's just that the level of this class will proceed further than your current skills, and you would definitely benefit more from taking the class than from teaching it.

I am however looking for an expert melee mapper who would like to teach about blizzard-style terrain and deviant symmetry.

 

[Binsu]

Maybe SoJ or SonofJay?

 

[MasterTrainer]

I'm enrolling as a student here :3

 

[Binsu]

Expect me too to join this one. Terrains always interest me. =)

 

[MasterTrainer]

But can TLI-Inferno handle such a huge class? You know, in the case that he's the only teacher when classes start on Friday.

 

[Binsu]

Thats of what I am not sure though.

 

[Footman16]

I can do blizzard terrain quite well and terrain in general. It all depends upon the number of custom resources I'm willing to use or the amount of effort. I've got a few examples of terrain in my albums that whoevers teaching can use as examples (bad or otherwise).

 

[Kaizer]

you guys gonna use The Ultimate Terraining Map?

 

[MasterTrainer]

Depends on the lesson, I think. And depends on the teacher too. I think.

 

[InfernalTater]

But can TLI-Inferno handle such a huge class? You know, in the case that he's the only teacher when classes start on Friday.

I'll be able to do it. I think I can handle 10 students comfortably, and 20 with effort. I would like to have more teachers, though. For the other skilled terrainers out there: even if you don't want to put in the effort of teaching the class, you could still be an assistant using your knowledge and experience to answer some of the students' questions so that I don't get overloaded.

I can do blizzard terrain quite well and terrain in general. It all depends upon the number of custom resources I'm willing to use or the amount of effort. I've got a few examples of terrain in my albums that whoever's teaching can use as examples (bad or otherwise).

Blizzard style terrain means no custom resources, no custom raise + rock cliffs, etc. The type of terrain you see in melee maps. It takes a special touch to pull off good looking terrain without using advanced techniques. Your terrain looks pretty close to blizzard style, but melee balance not so much.

you guys gonna use The Ultimate Terraining Map?

Most likely not. I prefer to import every model and create every doodad myself. Ensures no file size is wasted, and also ensures full customization for everything to fit in exactly how I intend it to be used. I will provide a package containing a large amount of custom resources for trainees to use, but importing it and creating the in-game doodads will be their job. I will include instructions on how to do so when we reach that point in the training.

 

[Footman16]

Well I don't make melee maps... much. I don't release them either. Those are campaign maps. In my campaigns I predominantly use Blizzard style with my own style where I see fit. I can't do angle terrain where the terrain only works from a certain angle but I have consistency in my work.

A little of topic but what do you think of my Lordaeron terrain?

 

[InfernalTater]

Well I don't make melee maps... much. I don't release them either. Those are campaign maps. In my campaigns I predominantly use Blizzard style with my own style where I see fit. I can't do angle terrain where the terrain only works from a certain angle but I have consistency in my work.

A little of topic but what do you think of my Lordaeron terrain?

I like it a lot, it has a very good quality of blizzard style and is very fitting for campaigns.

 

[DESTROYER123]

Wanna apply as a student too.

 

[Xonok]

Perhaps this thing will fix the thing about even the simplest terrain taking ages?
Enrolling with hope.

 

[Footman16]

The more I think about it the more I'm willing to help with teaching on certain subjects or techniques. I don't think I could be a full time teacher as my terraining ability is limited to as I said earlier only a few types.

 

[InfernalTater]

The more I think about it the more I'm willing to help with teaching on certain subjects or techniques. I don't think I could be a full time teacher as my terraining ability is limited to as I said earlier only a few types.

Sure thing! You could teach non-melee blizzard-style terraining as "Bonus" assignments. Just let me know when you've made your decision.

 

[Footman16]

Okay its a done deal. Whenever you need a bonus assignment or whatever just tell me and I'll come up with something. When you start teaching as well tell me so I can keep tabs on the lessons etc.

 

[InfernalTater]

Okay its a done deal. Whenever you need a bonus assignment or whatever just tell me and I'll come up with something. When you start teaching as well tell me so I can keep tabs on the lessons etc.

Sure thing. If you want, you can still be a student, and teach your bonus lessons at the same time.

 

[Footman16]

Well I don't want to waste your time teaching me such good terraining skills when all my projects won't really put it to good use. It is a very generous offer but I respectively decline due to the fact that my quasi-blizzard style terrain is all I really use and I don't have a need to learn such advanced techniques.

That said I might have peak in once in a while just to see exactly what you're teaching and if there are any parts here or there which I could draw inspiration from.

 

[Strydhaizer]

I wanna be your classmate Ill enroll to this school

 

[Lordkoon]

As I said a few pages before I would like to join the teaching group. I see the major problems of terrainers is to make the terrain they develop blend and make a good atmosphere. I would like to teach people how to make good choices for doodads and how to manipulate them into a whole picture. I do mainly off-melee playable terrains, altho I never tried doing a melee map but I do feel the better time spending for an age-late game would be on eyecandy and things that prove how creative people can get even with the limitations they are provided.

My classes would be mainly for people who prefer to:
- learn/improve on how to make ingame terrain look more alive - thus including triggered animation of unanimated objects, the right way to sound the enviroment.
- learn/improve on when to be preservative and when to 'spam' doodads. ''Overdoing is even worse than not doing.'' ''Less is more''
- make them think when they do their terrain, not just pick items from a list that 'seem fitting'.

And last but not least I hope of learning a bit from other people's creations too.

 

[DESTROYER123]

Is this good?

 

[Footman16]

Grass shouldn't be placed on dirt rule number 1.

Apart from that very good.

 

[InfernalTater]

As I said a few pages before I would like to join the teaching group. I see the major problems of terrainers is to make the terrain they develop blend and make a good atmosphere. I would like to teach people how to make good choices for doodads and how to manipulate them into a whole picture. I do mainly off-melee playable terrains, altho I never tried doing a melee map but I do feel the better time spending for an age-late game would be on eyecandy and things that prove how creative people can get even with the limitations they are provided.

My classes would be mainly for people who prefer to:
- learn/improve on how to make ingame terrain look more alive - thus including triggered animation of unanimated objects, the right way to sound the enviroment.
- learn/improve on when to be preservative and when to 'spam' doodads. ''Overdoing is even worse than not doing.'' ''Less is more''
- make them think when they do their terrain, not just pick items from a list that 'seem fitting'.

And last but not least I hope of learning a bit from other people's creations too.

Doodad preserving isn't really a specific sort of lesson. But there are definitely some niches you can fill nicely.

You can teach people the "behind the scenes" sort of stuff. Things that many people overlook, but can make or break a terrain. You already mentioned sounds and triggered animations, two wonderful things. If you're familiar with light and fog, you could teach those lessons as well.

I had you down as a possible teacher, I'll mark you as confirmed now.

Is this good?

Terrain

Please use hidden tags for large images, it makes posts easier to scroll through.

The imported house looks nice, but imports alone won't make a terrain good.

The grass looks too bright. It's also a bit too tall considering that it's growing in patches. For it to be so tall it would have had to have been growing for a long time, and in that amount of time it would have covered the ground. Making grass an appropriate height in Warcraft III terrain can sometimes be a tricky thing because a realistic height would be completely unnoticeable, but you still need to trim it down a bit. Judging by the height of the doorway in the building, the grass is at least three times the height of the doorway, making it at least 18 feet tall, which is pretty ridiculous. Real grass is a few inches to two feet if unkempt, which is pretty unnoticeable on Warcraft III terrain, but you can at least trim it down to 3-6 feet, meaning half the height of a normal unit to slightly over its head.

The grass is growing in a very thin line outside of the wall. That is simply unnatural; it should either extend into a patch or not be there at all. Move the wall slightly to cover that up.

City tiles/brick/square is a no-no if the ground isn't flat. Use doodads instead. You don't even need imports to do it, either; there are plenty of doodads that can be flattened to create tiles.

Warcraft 3 summer pines are pretty ugly. If you really don't want to import any trees, you could at least change the texture applied to the ashenvale tree to the summer tree. I have a tutorial on how to do this, and it will also be included in my lessons.

Grass shouldn't be placed on dirt rule number 1.

Apart from that very good.

Grass grows from dirt. Go outside in real life and look at the ground sometime. Sure, suburban lawns are thick with grass and you can't see the dirt beneath them, but I'm sure you've seen a place where the grass was thinner, where you could see plenty of dirt. If you haven't, then you must not go outside much.

The problem many people have is that they judge terrain based on other terrains they've seen instead of what exists in real life.

 

[mckill2009]

Guys may I suggest that teachers make a basic terrain, like flat land/basic trees, cliffs and
then students just design it so that teachers may rate?, the Jass class are doing that...

EDIT:
Students:
mckill2009
Hell_Master
MasterTrainer
Zyne

Teacher:
TLI-Inferno
Lordkoon

Pls confirm guys and anyone I miss, pls tell me, and I suggest also that you give me the assignments (map) so that I may update the first page...

 

[Binsu]

Is this good?

You should not mix HQ imports with War3 because it quite makes the game to me like unrealistic..... Also show us of more parts in the terrain, thats a small part of it. We want to see more =)

 

[EmoBrother]

Counts me, brother (student)
I have requested ~void~ to becoming a teacher of here cuz I think he/she is a super terrainer.