Techtree Contest #6 ~ The Poll

[overcold_ice]

that's good

 

[GhostThruster]

Astaroth Zion - very poor gameplay, little buildings was innovative but took away player choice, EXP was not innovative and was too random. Race looked okay. 1/5
Ender - fun to play, but infantry units seemed underpowered. Buildings looked ugly, and the race was ugly in general. 2/5
GhostThruster - I felt that yours was the best overall as you also play Halo like me. 6/5
kari - nice systems, but they were often dysfuncitonal. Units looked okay, buildings were too strong and restricted player choice over their positioning. 3/5
Kingz - solid gameplay. Didn't test all the race options, but more strategies is always a plus. Looked okay. 4/5
over<lord>_ice - incredibly confusing gameplay, which may itself be sound but does not fit into wc3. SFX were good. YOU ARE ALSO THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE ON EARTH. WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR RACE?! 2/5
part207 - no innovation whatsoever. Mobile food supply/lumber mill has been done before, and since it is trained from the Town Hall, it slows down worker production. Buildings looked okay, units shared one model which is not cool. 1/5
Wazzz - very unique and cool mechanics. Units looked okay. Balance was questionable, especially that leveller hero. 4/5

cant be stuffed writing WerePhoenix and Xiliger coz that marijuana guy did it already.
Feel free to ask me to elaborate on any points.

 

[overcold_ice]

ghost, please don't be that harsh D:
to others i mean, it's fine to me

 

[GhostThruster]

Purely my opinion. I was not harsh. I was probably harshest with you, and that was only because your race confused the f*****************************ck out of me.

 

[Arcisal]

Voted for Ghost because, well, his probably has the best description. And it was pretty fun to play as well. But if wasn't for that hawt description, it would've gone to Wazzz.

 

[Wazzz]

oh yeah

overcold_ice's gameplay was confusing

interesting once i figured out how it worked

and then confusing as to why it was so slow to make it work for such little effect

also i didn't like most the entries so i'll take first place kthx

 

[takakenji]

Why is Everyone voting wazz

 

[HFR]

He bribed us with whatever australians call money.

 

[GhostThruster]

Australians? Money? lol

 

[Wraithling]

Oi GhostThruster. I think I'm missing something, as I can't find the upgrade to tech level 2

 

[GhostThruster]

Build more Research Labs to advance your tech level.

Hehe people still have yet to explore the depths of my race. Believe it or not, my race has more mechanics than even Wazzz'.

 

[Wazzz]

isn't the depths of your race launching sappers from a catapult and using heroes in a weird way?

oh and building multiple research labs to tech up and putting engineers in vehicles to make them useful

and having temporary workers which you must constantly produce so they can be useful

 

[GhostThruster]

Well Wazzz. It seems you have won this battle. But next time...well you will probably win again.

 

[WerePhoenix]

Never say never!

 

[Wazzz]

i already have an idea for next techtree contest can we make this one finished soon please i want to get started on next one already weeee

OR MAYBE WE CAN START A NEW ONE BEFORE THIS ONE ENDS

 

[WerePhoenix]

i already have an idea for next techtree contest can we make this one finished soon please i want to get started on next one already weeee

OR MAYBE WE CAN START A NEW ONE BEFORE THIS ONE ENDS

Well the poll will close on 9 May, so I don't think we should make a big mess right now. We should give time to everyone to vote.

 

[Wazzz]

they will have time

we can just get started on a new contest in the process of waiting

i want to make my race dammit!

 

[kari0003]

Im on Wazz's side. Lets start the new contest sooner!
But dont make us rush our work this time, okay? )

Lets do something more interesting now. Was the theme been "creep based races" before? or lets do races that use lumber and gold somehow differently to melee ones.
Import shouldn't be forbidden, but extra points can be gained for the original blizzard/warcraft style.
Contestants should make the race able to be imported into a main map, so everyone can test with only one map. (May be hard, but incredibly useful.)

Is there a topic opened for the next Techtree Contest discussion?

Ps.: Soooo Happy that i have 1 vote

 

[Wazzz]

i'm thinking as far as a 'theme' goes, we need something a little less inhibitive to the selection of races. with 'creep based races', we are limiting the selection of races directly, and it no longer serves as a 'theme'

i heard about one theme for a contest being 'super unit', where the objective was to create a 'super unit'. that was it, you could do it however you wanted, so long as it was balanced

 

[Kingz]

Popularity wins the poll.

I will say it, even if i come out like a douche:
The amount of votes Wazzz is getting isn't deserved. I don't know the reasoning behind these votes but it surelly isn't the best quality submission here by far.

Reasonings:

*Tooltips are slim to non-existent.
*Hero skills are bugged and not original (using binding on buildings, your own units hue hue hue)
*Casting a spell to create a unit isn't error proof, you can lose mana and not spawn a unit if you didn't have enough resources.
*THIS THING HAS A TON OF MEMORY LEAKS. Pardon for the caps lock, but playing with this race will leak so many locations in the memory it's ABSURD. Have fun losing memory while playing.
*Guess what? You can't have tavern heroes with this "town hall", meaning you are limited to your race only heroes which again are poor in design and functionality
*More things come to my mind, but it's late atm, can post more details tomorrow.

What this entry has:
*An already seen "mana for units" system. No it's not unique, it's just not the same as WC3 concept and is HORRIBLY abuseable through briliance aura (if you have a human ally ftw)
*Decent unit design
*An interesting way of summoning units

I would personally love to see the reasoning for the big amount of votes Wazzz has, and why everyone voted for him.

Im not promoting any entry, but im just saying stuff as it is, Wazzz entry is far from the best at this contest and it's a clear picture of how popularity or friends work here.

Peace out, good luck to all other contestants.

Edit:

Since i only tested a several races i doubt i will be voting since it wouldn't be fair. But do note, i did test several races and found them quite fun and interesting.

 

[GhostThruster]

Well ofc Wazzz' entry is far from the best, because my entry is the best.

And there's still hope, Pharaoh_ may shut down the voting again like last time.

 

[Wazzz]

well that's not very nice to say, nor is it your place to judge whether or not i deserve the number of votes i am getting

read in the areas that are judged, and tell me where it says that the tooltips must be pristine

besides, it's not like your entry is 'top notch', you just probably had more thought out tooltips

yeah, i went there

 

[GhostThruster]

How does the final output look?

Gameplay would be affected too, since you don't know what does what. IMO your tooltips wouldn't be so much concern if they didn't leave crucial info out (eg. gold and lumber cost is missing in some upgrades, and I didn't understand how the floating dead antoniobanderidas becomes fully grown).

besides, it's not like your entry is 'top notch', you just probably had more thought out tooltips

EDIT: Its also pretty obvious you left tooltips deliberately like that for comical effect.

 

[Wazzz]

i think i mentioned how many corpses it took

on the plus side, wasn't overly crucial information considering it's all automatic and corpses are easy to come by

anywho, to say it's 'far from the best' when the public polls clearly indicate otherwise, that's just bad sportsmanship kingz

your entry was no prize itself, we all had flaws, suck it up and take the loss

 

[GhostThruster]

If Kingz refuses to suck it up, I'm always up for a good sucking.

I'm sorry but 'IT KILLS 3 SPECTRES SHIT' is kas-level understandability.
I also just realised Undead Mastery can never be researched (I played w/ thereisnospoon before).
Human and Orc mages do not tell me what spells they use. You could have at least described their role eg. instead of 'human caster whos possessed that does mean shit' you could say 'human mage that is abit evil and can fly if eh rly wants to. also transfers infections but not in the way you'd think'

Also, you should have been disqualified long ago.
a) You cannot submit two races. One of them is just stupid. I mean what kind of a race has flying ghost ships?
b) You clearly advertised. 'hi my name is wazzz and i am looking for happy fun time, only 5 dorrar'. Not only is this advertising yourself, you have also committed commercial fraud, since 'dorrar' is not a real currency you could deceive someone by telling them a 'dorrar' is worth 5000 rupees, and thus you can charge pretty much anything for what I know from experience is NOT 'happy fun time'.

 

[Kingz]

anywho, to say it's 'far from the best' when the public polls clearly indicate otherwise, that's just bad sportsmanship kingz

It just indicates how BROKEN the poll system is and why it should never affect more than 10% of the final score.

your entry was no prize itself, we all had flaws, suck it up and take the loss

Every entry had flaws. Your flaws are much bigger than in some entries though. If nothing i can name 3 entries that show more effort spent in them than yours.

besides, it's not like your entry is 'top notch'

I never said my entry is top notch, i said there are better entries, and i stand by that statement.

And the poll is a slap to the face to the better entries in this contest.

Your final submission must be bug free enough to test and play.

Your entry isn't bug free also, the mentioned mana bug is existent and the memory leaks will mean if the game stretches on the WC3 will crash or lag so hard because more and more memory will be lost.

How fun the gameplay is; does the race itself offer various features to experiment with?

I can tell you right now: No one likes reading "shit" in every 2nd tooltip of a unit. And it lacks various features since you are limited to 2 partial heroes.


This is my opinion, this is a forum, thus opinions are suposed to be shared and discussed. If you don't like the fact it's PAINFULLY obvious the poll is wrong and someone is pointing that out too bad for you.


I have nothing to suck up, i don't care if i lose, but i do care about other entries which are gonna get hit because of this poll.

Also, number of people on Wazzz friend list that voted explicitly for him:
1) Chocowaffles
2) Firelord213
3) GhostThruster
4) GIANT_CRAB
5) HFR
6) MADAWC
7) MasterHaosis
8) mare
9) Hubcool
10) takakenji
11) KittyMaryJane
12) leet.firefox
13) Orcnet
14) Xian
15) ike_ike

And i might have left out someone.
Ofc this is all could be just a BIG coincidence but i choose to live in the real world.

Afterall, if you are so confident on winning this thing, removing the poll from the score wouldn't affect you that much, would it now?

 

[Wazzz]

presenting an opinion on a thread like this could change the nature of the polls, and that would be 'cheating'

considering you're getting all up yourself about 'fairness' and whatnot, i suggest you stop attempting to influence and change the polls any more than i'm sure you already have, and just let it unfold as it naturally will

i have a lot of users on my friends list, primarily active users, so the fact that you're accusing me of influencing the polls in such a way is beyond an 'opinion'

you should consider leaving this thread if you're going to continue to behave inappropriately

besides, you haven't even pointed out some 'more interesting' gameplay mechanics than mine, and if you yourself think they're better, fine, that's your opinion, but you have no right to say that just because the majority of people like mine the most that the poll system is broken

just because a large number of people happen to disagree with you doesn't mean the polls are broken, or that i cheated, or that they're wrong

it just means they have a different opinion to yours, and you would do well to respect that, otherwise what is the point of a public poll?

seriously, all you've criticised about my race is the tooltips and the occasional 'bug'

you even quoted yourself that it must be bug free enough to test and play

did you test and play it? it would appear so

 

[GhostThruster]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! I LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM IN THE MORNING

I also like interfering in fights.

Kingz:
>Agreed. Poll system is broken.
>Disagree. You can't determine how much effort Wazzz has put without being psychic. Perhaps he deliberately chose to make the tooltips like that? Perhaps - no definitely because - he just sucks at coding?
>Agreed. Wazzz implied Kingz implied his entry was better than yours, and that is twisting his words and falsely making him appear butthurt. Also directly insulting the opposing party in a debate is a big no no.
>Disagree. Key word is <enough>. His general systems were functioning. Only thing that I'd say isn't playable or testable is the Human mage crow form bug.
>Agreed. Vulgar language is no way to go. There are plenty of ways to make your entry comical, you needn't add in swear words Wazzz.
>Disagree. Whilst I respect Kingz' bravado at standing up to the wazzzhole (and by the way, I pointed the poll out before anyone so I am the bravest), it is clear the bottom is hurt with this one.
>Agreed, even though I was mentioned in that list. That is primary source evidence, something crucial and convincing in a debate. It is clear Wazzz influenced the poll, directly or indirectly.
>Agreed. Nice, questioning the defending party.

Wazzz:
>Agreed. However, if we are to assume Kingz' conclusion, this is highly hypocritical and even more so hypocritical now that you are making counter-claims such as the 'top-notch' phrase as quoted by Kingz.
>Taking into consideration the above point I've made, this is even more hypocritical.
>Agreed. For instance, Wazzz has not tried to influence my opinion in any way. I actually occasionally cuss at him in chat.
>Disagreed. Kingz is stating his opinion. There is no rule for freedom of speech on the internet, but there is no rule against it, so he has permission to post what he wants. This again is hypocritical because you are stating your opinion (of him behaving inappropriately), and thus are you saying you should leave this thread too?
>Agreed. Kingz lacks support for his accusations, save the list of Wazzz' friends.
>Agreed. Using the 'opinion' argument effectively, however still hypocritcal regarding the fact that you are wanting to silence Kingz' opinion (ie. you want him to leave this thread instead of properly debating).
>Agreed. This might be detrimental to Kingz' 'wazzz' map is bad' argument as Wazzz claims Kingz' criticisms are limited to tooltips and bugs. Nice use of 'occasional', sets the modality lower on the word 'bug' and makes it sound less significant, as if it isn't enough to warrant such criticism over his entire entry.
>Agreed. Excellent use of turning the quote against him, and using literal language.

Kingz - butthurt, brave, needs moar evidence

Wazzz - excellent rebuttals (though some of them are a bit too strong, and often twist Kingz' words), nice use of the opinion argument, hypocritical to an extent

 

[Wazzz]

Im not promoting any entry, but im just saying stuff as it is, Wazzz entry is far from the best at this contest and it's a clear picture of how popularity or friends work here.

Funnily enough, demoting an entry is just as bad, maybe better or worse depending on a person's point of view.

And it's not just you rating it, saying 'oh well these things were wrong' or 'i didn't quite like this', you went beyond that to say outright that i didn't deserve the votes that i obviously do deserve considering i got them.

Observe that the poll says 'which entry did you enjoy the most?'

obviously a lot of people enjoyed my entry the most, while a lot of people didn't. I have a slight winning majority atm, but that could potentially change at any time.

what you're suggesting is that we remove public polls, but we have been there before and the fact is if you remove the public poll system, then you remove the public interest.

anyway who cares, it's not like you're going to earn money from this, it's not like you're going to earn any meaningful social recognition outside of the internet, it's a contest that's purely for fun on a hobby site.

i'm all set and ready to go for an elephant race next techtree contest

 

[KittyMaryJane]

i enjoyed wazzz's race the most, because it had a very original concept that was hard to pull off in such a gamestyle, and yet he did a good job of attempting it. replacing an entire base with one unit must have been hard, and he did a good job.

people like kingz need to leave wazzz alone, just because he is popular on the public polls doesn't mean he didn't put effort into his race. :c

ok i love you all my kawaii sugoi subjects

carry on with your arguments

xoxo kawaii princess

 

[Mechanical Man]

The thing is because nobody even bothers to play all these races, because you actually have to play it and it's not like texturing or modeling contest where people mostly vote looking just a screenshot, wazzz is just the most famous and then people vote for him even without trying any map. Like why ragingspeedhorn won all these paired mapping contests. You just can't judge map from a pic.

 

[GhostThruster]

Wazzz:

>Agreed. Negative word can impact the poll now that he is discrediting you, whether he be honest or butthurt.
>Agreed. Using the poll as a source, excellent.
>Disagreed. W/ or w/o a poll interest for techtree contests will be minimal, one of the major reasons as Mechanical Man listed that it is more tedious to test all entries. Also, remember last contest we had a poll, and someone, who is definitely not Wazzz even advertised 'for the good of the contest' and there still wasn't much notice for the contest.
>Agreed. But again, Wazzz' points are so generalised they become hypocritical. Why does Wazzz care so much of this poll? I mean he said it himself its meaningless, yet he is ever so over-protectice of his entry. Ah the hypocrisy.
>AGREED. WOW UNDEAD GEE HOW ORIGINAL ITS NOT LIKE BLIZZARD MADE AN UNDEAD RACE ALREADY FOR MELEE WC3. Elephants or you're bad

NOW since Kingz has yet to rebut his hurt butt, I will help him out.
>Act of precedent. Wazzz, what a coincidence Wazzz. The situation with the polls, Wazzz, is eerily similar, wouldn't you say Wazzz? And last time Pharaoh_ scrapped the poll system and just based results on judges (who btw were awesome especially that Ghostthruster kid man what a hunk). Like in law practices, Kingz can suggest an act of precedent for Pharaoh_ to take the same action.
>KittyMaryJane. Probs one of the dumber users on the Hive. And class A evidence that certain friends of Wazzz clearly did not test all entries and only chose Wazzz because they were penpals (not that handsome ghostthruster though - he hates Wazzz and every single one of Wazzz' mums).

 

[Ender]

why are you guys so concerned with it? you all know I am going to win anyways

besides its a just for fun contest, so, there is no possible reason to get upset and begin a flame war; most importantly the poll is only 30% of your score...

 

[GhostThruster]

@Ender: this isn't a flame war derp. Just because they are arguing it does not mean they are raving mad at each other and throwing out all sorts of mean words. On the contrary, they are having a rather mild debate over the current polling.

Kids, thinking they can win when I'm in the contest.

 

[Ender]

@Ender: this isn't a flame war derp. Just because they are arguing it does not mean they are raving mad at each other and throwing out all sorts of mean words. On the contrary, they are having a rather mild debate over the current polling.

good point, it is a heated debate not a flame war.

Kids, thinking they can win when I'm in the contest.

some people thinking they stand a chance when the gnomes clearly are superior...

 

[Latecat]

-snip-
Also, number of people on Wazzz friend list that voted explicitly for him:
-snip-
8) mare

I had 1 reason and 1 reason only: I was in a hurry (and now more than ever), so I only did a quick look. I didn't check for balance too much nor how they work in game, in other words, I only read entry posts, nothing else.

Quite frankly, I had completely forgotten about this until someone decided to mention about it to me. I didn't have enough time to post a comment back then. So if you don't mind...

EDIT: And if I went with the friends thing, I could just as well have voted for GhostThruster, since his name bugs me with its familiarity.

 

[kari0003]

Dont tell me, that this gets your attention more than this
especially when you are in hurry...

 

[HFR]

Don't tell me opinions differ from facts, because they totally don't.

 

[Wazzz]

have i got your attention now?

 

[Latecat]

Weird, I could of sworn Wazzz had much more info in his entry.

Though now that I think of it, I might have accidentally missed the arcanists.

hmm...

 

[Wazzz]

idk about you but this got my attention

also i was sure i had more info also, oh well you get undead and stuff from dead bodies also you get lots of zombies kthx

EDIT: oh just noticed that at some point my previous attempt at this post may have actually succeeded after all, and got deleted. if that is the case, i apologise for posting it again. if not, then weeeeeee

 

[Freyleyes]

That caught my attention ^^

But at the poll I also agree that it might not be fair, but we cant blame the ppl that get the votes, if voters wants to be stupid and just throw a vote without testing, or downloading the maps at least, its not the guy that gets the votes fault. But yeah, users that vote should actually say why they are voting for that person, and not just "good submission, you get me vote" but rather a small description, well, this is just my opinion.

 

[Nromk]

When will the next contest be? Not just techtree specifically but any? I would like to had entered in some of the recent contests, but I always find out a while after they start. The Arena calender does not tell me any info.

 

[Pharaoh_]

idk about you but this got my attention

also i was sure i had more info also, oh well you get undead and stuff from dead bodies also you get lots of zombies kthx

EDIT: oh just noticed that at some point my previous attempt at this post may have actually succeeded after all, and got deleted. if that is the case, i apologise for posting it again. if not, then weeeeeee

I was deleting the messages, because all they do is aggravating the situation and what you should do at the moment is anything but being sarcastic.

 

[GhostThruster]

@mare: who are you?

@xiliger: I was torn between voting for you, kingz or wazzz

 

[Wazzz]

I was deleting the messages, because all they do is aggravating the situation and what you should do at the moment is anything but being sarcastic.

miiight have considered deleting some of the other comments instead then

considering 90% of posts lately have been about wazzz not deserving votes

 

[Latecat]

@GhostThruster - I am a random creeper who apparently has seen quite a few of your past comments because I cant shake the feeling that I know you from somewhere.

In other news:
I just figured that I must have mistakenly voted for the wrong person, though I cant remember who I was originally going to vote for. Though what is done is done.

 

[Kingz]

I am just saying THIS is the reason a poll should never get more than 10-15% of the final score.

Especially in a contest where you actually have to test something, not just take a quick look like on models/icons.

i enjoyed wazzz's race the most, because it had a very original concept that was hard to pull off in such a gamestyle, and yet he did a good job of attempting it. replacing an entire base with one unit must have been hard, and he did a good job.

It's actually pretty damn simple and highly unbalanced.
And the concept of using mana as a production resource has been seen over and over before.

you haven't even pointed out some 'more interesting' gameplay mechanics than mine

Gnome Confoderacy, Xiliger's Treants and the Fire Race are way more fun and interesting to me. Just pointing it out.

GhostThruster just proves my point of me being an idiot ever to think this could end up in a normal discussion.

I have nothing personal against any of the participants, but the poll results just plainly look like bad play from my point of view.

You can have your 1st place, i don't care. It's just a notion to me not to ever engage in such a contest with broken judging.
But it's also a notion of how the Hive standards have fallen if this gets judged as the 1st place (good idea/mechanics or not, it's not serious or melee game balanced, and no winning/losing versus a computer player doesn't mean it's balanced melee map wise), at least in my eyes.

I am taking a stand back from this discussion turned to argument.
Good bye, and good luck to all other contestants.

 

[Pharaoh_]

miiight have considered deleting some of the other comments instead then

considering 90% of posts lately have been about wazzz not deserving votes

None of them was against the rules. Commenting on other entries is not against the rules, as far as I'm concerned (even if they only point out the flaws of the submission). Replying with a big picture and a comment like that is spam with elements of trolling.

 

[Wazzz]

spam, maybe, but trolling? hardly

@kingz: it's more so your whiny approach (no trolling/flaming intended if it comes off as such) that leads to such a negative reaction. I have seen some of your other posts and see it has that same style of you taking things far too seriously and talking of the 'real world'.

Fact is, in the 'real world', people don't care about non-profit competitions like this one, and the aim is to just have fun. As soon as you get all hung up about people voting for a submission that you, yourself, didn't like (which is how you come across as being), that is when you start making yourself look like an idiot (again, no offence intended) and it comes across as you having something personal against a particular submission.

Despite the fact you say it's 'nothing personal'.

Anyway, you do raise a good point that the polls are oddly stacked, but perhaps that is because your taste in what's good is in the minority? All you've done is complain about my flaws, I could complain about every single submission that was put up to this contest, and view my own as one of the 'better' ones (my personal opinion) that has its own flaws.

But to accuse me of stacking the votes myself is a low blow and most people will agree that you are crossing a line when you make accusation without sufficient evidence. It's actually a personal attack against me and I would thank you to not do that again.

You wanted a proper 'discussion', well, making personal attacks like that isn't going to leave much room for 'discussion', but here's my attempt at resolving things. Enjoy.