StarCraft: Remastered - Official Launch Day!

[StoPCampinGn00b]

StarCraft: Remastered is set to release today, August 14! Watch Day9's officially Blizzard sponsored SC:R live stream here, with pros facing off in the glorious wide-screen re-textured 4K HD: Twitch.tv/Day9tv StarCraft also just went live on the Blizzard app. It includes both the original Starcraft and Broodwar free, along with the option to buy the remaster. This is great news for classic games as a whole. Features Starcraft Free Remastered Same Legendary Gameplay ✔ ✔ Offline LAN and Campaign ✔ ✔ Connected to the Blizzard App ✔ ✔ Observer Mode ✔ ✔ Modern OS Support ✔ ✔ Presale Unlocks: Korhal Command Center, Aiur Nexus, and Char Hive ✔ Cloud Saves ✔ 13 Languages ✔ Remastered Dialogue and Audio ✔ Remastered Graphics up to 4k with Widescreen Support ✔ Enhanced Narrative ✔ Matchmaking & Leaderboards ✔ You can find all the info and purchase the game on Blizzard's StarCraft: Remastered home page.

 

[MindWorX]

Tempting ...

 

[LordDz]

I'll wait 'til paycheck and then it's time to relive the campaigns again.

Also would be cool if there was a version with all the bugs and weird AI pathing fixed. Just to see how it would play out.
(Not Starcraft 2)

 

[Deleted member 247165]

UHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3 <3 <3 Finally!! "Battlecruiser, operational!
"

 

[FeruEnzeruJKun]

Yep. I saw it. (On the SC:R website. Not the stream)

But no Warcraft 3 on Blizzard App.

Congrats, Blizzard.

 

[Xarwin]

Get the next game up Blizz, we'll be waiting for it!

 

[Kyrbi0]

Supah cool. Already downloaded the free Sc1 months ago, but very cool to finally see the release.

 

[Eat_Bacon_Daily]

Best news about this is that they will likely start focusing on WC3. Now we will see if they take the remaster path, the update path or the expansion path for our beloved game.

 

[FeruEnzeruJKun]

Best news about this is that they will likely start focusing on WC3. Now we will see if they take the remaster path, the update path or the expansion path for our beloved game.

Sounds good to me, E_B_D. I'm better with the remaster path for Warcraft 3.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Best news about this is that they will likely start focusing on WC3. Now we will see if they take the remaster path, the update path or the expansion path for our beloved game.

Remember that D2 is in the same boat as WC3 though. This is why I don't say "Warcraft is next!" because D2 has also been being frequently updated. Time will tell.

 

[pyf]

[...] StarCraft: Remastered is set to release today, August 14! [...]

StarCraft also just went live on the Blizzard app. It includes both the original Starcraft and Broodwar free,
along with the option to buy the remaster. This is great news for classic games as a whole. [...]

Features

Starcraft	Free	Remastered
Same Legendary Gameplay	✔	✔
Offline LAN and Campaign	✔	✔
Connected to the Blizzard App	✔	✔
Observer Mode	✔	✔
Modern OS Support	✔	✔
Presale Unlocks: Korhal Command Center, Aiur Nexus, and Char Hive		✔
Cloud Saves		✔
13 Languages		✔
Remastered Dialogue and Audio		✔
Remastered Graphics up to 4k with Widescreen Support		✔
Enhanced Narrative		✔
Matchmaking & Leaderboards		✔

[...]

A taste of things to come?...

 

[Misha]

and i bought it right away

 

[Hotwer]

Beautiful Korhal Command Center.

 

[Linaze]

Best RTS 2017 confirmed.

 

[Heinvers]

<3 <3 <3

 

[A]mun]

Obligatory "It's too damn expensive" comment.

Also more updates for wc3 now?!

 

[Chaosy]

Seeing as people pay 5€ for one skin on one character in LoL I doubt 17€ for one reskinned/reanimated game is much ;P

That said, I wont buy it because I am biased towards shitty graphics. Yes wc3 graphics are way better than SC, even more so with mods.

 

[Rui]

Also would be cool if there was a version with all the bugs and weird AI pathing fixed. Just to see how it would play out.

It wouldn't play out well. The proof of that is StarCraft II. No one ever realized (and Blizzard probably did too late), but the biggest change from SC1 to SC2 were not the new techtrees. It was the pathing system.

In SC1, units have a hard time clustering. In SC2, clustering is the norm. That's why SC1 Siege Tanks could deal 70 dmg/hit and cost 100 gas (against 35/50 in Wings of Liberty for 125 gas), while Psionic Storm dealt 114 dmg (14 damage per sec) instead of the 80 dmg (10 dps) it does in SC2, and people are still ranting endlessly about High Templars in the upcoming major SC2 patch, as they did about Siege Tanks in Wings of Liberty.

Couple this with the other pathing traits (units getting stuck, deaccelerating abnormally, etc) and you have a game that plays considerably different.

 

[LordDz]

Different yes and I understand that the fans did not want to fix those things for the game.
However..
I'm saying it would be cool to see how a version with those things fixed would play out. While still keeping the original gameplay in the standard version.
Yes, a lot of the skill needed in starcraft would be removed, but maybe it would open to other areas.
Like more drops, more crazy micro, things we haven't seen yet.

 

[A Void]

I don't recommend anyone spending their 15$ for a graphical overhaul. Those who brought the original game basically threw their 20$ into air, it's a disgrace for them to make cash out of an 20 year old game.

The limited selection, horrible unit pathing are still there. Campaign single-player is boring, same repeat "kill all" missions, you spend 30 minutes creating an army and doing it for the entirety of a single mission. Brood War campaign is a nightmare for normal players who don't micro or obsess over their APM count.

Multi player is off-limits to new comers or casual players, you should stay away from it completely.

Star Craft was a great game in it's time but today.. it sucks. The only good thing about it is story and music.

Don't waste your money and just play the free version.

 

[Linaze]

I don't recommend anyone spending their 15$ for a graphical overhaul. Those who brought the original game basically threw their 20$ into air, it's a disgrace for them to make cash out of an 20 year old game.

The limited selection, horrible unit pathing are still there. Campaign single-player is boring, same repeat "kill all" missions, you spend 30 minutes creating an army and doing it for the entirety of a single mission. Brood War campaign is a nightmare for normal players who don't micro or obsess over their APM count.

Multi player is off-limits to new comers or casual players, you should stay away from it completely.

Star Craft was a great game in it's time but today.. it sucks. The only good thing about it is story and music.

Don't waste your money and just play the free version.

StarCraft is one of the best, if not the best RTS of all time, and it holds up very well to this day. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about and you probably have pineapple on your pizza too.

 

[A Void]

StarCraft is one of the best, if not the best RTS of all time, and it holds up very well to this day. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about and you probably have pineapple on your pizza too.

That's your opinion. You should keep that attitude of yours to yourself.

 

[Kyrbi0]

That's your opinion. You should keep that attitude of yours to yourself.

Much in the same way you did?...

 

[Rui]

The limited selection, horrible unit pathing are still there.

See my previous post. Pathing is a key aspect in StarCraft. Changing it has implications in gameplay. And not necessarily agreeable ones, as StarCraft II has demonstrated. Leaving it unchanged was quite intentional.

 

[Jumbo]

I have mixed feelings about this release. Basically, what Bethesda did with Skyrim HD DLC was add a FREE graphical expansion to their game.
With Starcraft: Remastered what we've received are graphics, sound, and proper modern hosting services. This is all fine, but the lack of gameplay improvements is a mistake in my opinion and the fact that Blizzard decided to charge us for it with only such minimal changes is a stretch of moral standards.

While I agree that pathfinding should not be changed (along with anything else) to SC2-style, I don't see how horrible, horrible pathfinding and an archaic 12 unit selection limit is required to make the game fit for pro play. The thing Rui mentioned about Starcraft 2 pathfinding I completely agree with, but Starcraft 2's handling of the feature being bad doesn't mean that any change to pathfinding would be bad. Units could have smarter pathfinding while at the same time staying in the spread out fashion they do now, when moving as a group/in formation. This would be in keeping with the old formation style, while removing a pointless tedious feature of the old Starcraft - namely clumsy unit pathfinding. I am pretty sure that the pros won't even take notice of this unlike casuals such as myself who struggle to keep up even a below average playing speed.

The 12 unit selection limit is slightly more tricky - it would surely alter gameplay on all skill levels, freeing up control groups for pro and casual alike. However, even in real Sports rules are changed and improved upon occasionally to make the game better. This is the case with Badminton for instance and even in Soccer they have used different balls over the course of history. Starcraft being this huge Esports' game could, based on these facts, also be slightly changed for the better. This would make an old game a fresh experience whilst keeping 99% of the game intact.

 

[Linaze]

I have mixed feelings about this release. Basically, what Bethesda did with Skyrim HD DLC was add a FREE graphical expansion to their game.
With Starcraft: Remastered what we've received are graphics, sound, and proper modern hosting services. This is all fine, but the lack of gameplay improvements is a mistake in my opinion and the fact that Blizzard decided to charge us for it with only such minimal changes is a stretch of moral standards.

While I agree that pathfinding should not be changed (along with anything else) to SC2-style, I don't see how horrible, horrible pathfinding and an archaic 12 unit selection limit is required to make the game fit for pro play. The thing Rui mentioned about Starcraft 2 pathfinding I completely agree with, but Starcraft 2's handling of the feature being bad doesn't mean that any change to pathfinding would be bad. Units could have smarter pathfinding while at the same time staying in the spread out fashion they do now, when moving as a group/in formation. This would be in keeping with the old formation style, while removing a pointless tedious feature of the old Starcraft - namely clumsy unit pathfinding. I am pretty sure that the pros won't even take notice of this unlike casuals such as myself who struggle to keep up even a below average playing speed.

The 12 unit selection limit is slightly more tricky - it would surely alter gameplay on all skill levels, freeing up control groups for pro and casual alike. However, even in real Sports rules are changed and improved upon occasionally to make the game better. This is the case with Badminton for instance and even in Soccer they have used different balls over the course of history. Starcraft being this huge Esports' game could, based on these facts, also be slightly changed for the better. This would make an old game a fresh experience whilst keeping 99% of the game intact.

Whether "improved" (I guess in the objective sense) pathfinding or increased unit selection would alter the game is not up for debate, it simply would. I am not pretty sure but rather 100% confident the aforementioned pros would take notice.

Furthermore any gameplay changes would make crossplay between vanilla BW and BW:R impossible, effectively splitting the community into two camps (namely originalists and "modernists").

 

[Jumbo]

True, of course it will alter gameplay. But why not add the gameplay changes to the free Starcraft versions as well and brand it as altruism? Would make sense the way I see it.

Also, remember my footnote about real sports and you will realise that such changes aren't so far-fetched after all.

It is, however, far-fetched to believe that Blizzard would change these things at this point. That is unless all the pro players agreed to ask for modernization.

 

[Kyrbi0]

It is, however, far-fetched to believe that Blizzard would change these things at this point. That is unless all the pro players agreed to ask for modernization.

This right here illustrates a key point that it appears you are not aware of: the Blizzard Classic Gaming team actually met and discussed with Pro players about how and what to fix in Starcraft. In fact, IIRC, they actually suggested making adjustments to the pathing & selection but were asked by the pro Gaming Community not to implement such changes.

 

[Jumbo]

Oh that is interesting. And sad to be honest - pros being reactionary and narrow-minded. I remember Grubby talking about how interesting WC3 was over the first many years because new balance patches kept the game fresh. These guys on the other hand just want Starcraft to be the same forever. This does not bode well for a revival of this great classic. Instead we will likely only get a small increase to the numbers of an already small pro elite.

Blizzard should have chosen the courageous path here; instead they played it safe. That's alright, but for what it is it should have been free.

 

[Linaze]

Blizzard should have chosen the courageous path here; instead they played it safe. That's alright, but for what it is it should have been free.

In my opinion Blizzard were brave not to cave to demands from a casual audience who would likely reject the game regardless.

 

[Jumbo]

I disagree. How can being scared of modernizing archaic little gameplay details be brave - Hard to understand really. Oh and by the way, these casuals you talk about may or may not have played Starcraft since the 1990s and so of course such people won't reject the game.

 

[A Void]

This right here illustrates a key point that it appears you are not aware of: the Blizzard Classic Gaming team actually met and discussed with Pro players about how and what to fix in Starcraft. In fact, IIRC, they actually suggested making adjustments to the pathing & selection but were asked by the pro Gaming Community not to implement such changes.

"Pro gaming community"? Who asked for their opinion? Blizzard had a chance to improve this game for future players, not APM count nerds.

Why even bother for a remaster if its not going to last another twelve years? They won't attract new crowd with a gameplay mechanics that are outdated, broken and old.

Warcraft 3 has a great pathfinding, not perfect but great. Starcraft needs these QoL improvements to the engine.

 

[Linaze]

"Pro gaming community"? Who asked for their opinion? Blizzard had a chance to improve this game for future players, not APM count nerds.

Why even bother for a remaster if its not going to last another twelve years? They won't attract new crowd with a gameplay mechanics that are outdated, broken and old.

Warcraft 3 has a great pathfinding, not perfect but great. Starcraft needs these QoL improvements to the engine.

Blizzard asked the "pro gaming community", quite literally.

They're not trying to attract a new crowd with this remaster, it's targeted at the e-sports scene mainly located in Korea. With this in mind the way they've gone about things makes a whole lot of sense.

I'm not sure what you (and others) actually want. BW in the Sc2 engine, but with balance intact?

 

[Jumbo]

If you read more carefully (something rare on the internet I admit, I make the same mistake occasionally) you would see this

"

Warcraft 3 has a great pathfinding, not perfect but great. Starcraft needs these QoL improvements to the engine.

 

[Linaze]

The gentleman lists exactly one point; improved pathfinding (inspired by War3 as opposed to Sc2?).
The above alone would surely break balance on its own, but I'll make the assumption your "camp" would also be in favor of things such as >12 unit selection, multiple building selection, "smarter" rally points, smarter ability casting, among other "QoL" improvements.

Now you are obviously free to be in favor of implementing all of the above, and more, but for what good reason? You'd no longer be remastering BW but rather creating a whole new game that may or may not be a better experience than the original. For all its faults, BW would simply not be the game it is were it not for its specific pathfinding, unit selection limits, rally points etc.

I respect that some of the admittedly dated systems of BW are not for everyone (I'm a total amateur myself, mind), but thankfully Blizzard has two other RTS games availiable for everyone else.

 

[A Void]

The gentleman lists exactly one point; improved pathfinding (inspired by War3 as opposed to Sc2?).
The above alone would surely break balance on its own, but I'll make the assumption your "camp" would also be in favor of things such as >12 unit selection, multiple building selection, "smarter" rally points, smarter ability casting, among other "QoL" improvements.

Now you are obviously free to be in favor of implementing all of the above, and more, but for what good reason? You'd no longer be remastering BW but rather creating a whole new game that may or may not be a better experience than the original. For all its faults, BW would simply not be the game it is were it not for its specific pathfinding, unit selection limits, rally points etc.

I respect that some of the admittedly dated systems of BW are not for everyone (I'm a total amateur myself, mind), but thankfully Blizzard has two other RTS games availiable for everyone else.

What's the point of remastering a nearly twenty year old game purely for graphical purposes (and charging for it)? Are they doing it for the future or solely for "now"? They should learn a thing or two from Age of Empires Remastered, it improved upon what made the game so great.

You think that new players will be attracted to the free version of Starcraft? You have to pay money to get vital support of resolutions. That turns every new player away. Since when do we have to pay for technical aspects of the game? Starcraft Remastered introduced nothing, improved nothing, it's solely a graphical overhaul. If people want to pay for it it's their choice, it won't be long when it's distributed illegally.

The same timeless gameplay that they advertise was technical limitations back then when Starcraft was under development. The 12 unit selection limit was a technical design limitation that was passed from Warcraft 2 (which SC engine was made from) to Warcraft 3. The interface wasn't designed to support more than 12 units and selection depended more on computer's memory (RAM) which was tiny back then. The more units you have selected the more memory has to be stored for interface and movement commands. In War3, ordering a huge number of units via unit groups (trigger) causes pathfinding lag, units start to stop moving. If War3 pathfinding wasn't that great, just think how worse SC1's was.

Pathfinding was crappy because of the same reason, it was passed from Warcraft 2(which had shitty pathfinding as well). It's not a design choice or intended gameplay when your units can't properly move from one point to another. Not to mention that you have to control up to 200 units, which is a technical nightmare. That's probably the reason why air-strategies are much popular in Starcraft 1, air units are easier to control, they don't have such problems.

 

[pyf]

[...] The same timeless gameplay that they advertise was technical limitations back then when Starcraft was under development. The 12 unit selection limit was a technical design limitation that was passed from Warcraft 2 (which SC engine was made from) to Warcraft 3. The interface wasn't designed to support more than 12 units and selection depended more on computer's memory (RAM) which was tiny back then. The more units you have selected the more memory has to be stored for interface and movement commands. In War3, ordering a huge number of units via unit groups (trigger) causes pathfinding lag, units start to stop moving. If War3 pathfinding wasn't that great, just think how worse SC1's was.

Pathfinding was crappy because of the same reason, it was passed from Warcraft 2(which had shitty pathfinding as well). It's not a design choice or intended gameplay when your units can't properly move from one point to another. Not to mention that you have to control up to 200 units, which is a technical nightmare. That's probably the reason why air-strategies are much popular in Starcraft 1, air units are easier to control, they don't have such problems.

Patrick Wyatt tells us here "about how difficult it was to make StarCraft, largely through poor choices made at every level of the company about the game’s direction, technology and design". A must-read imho.


Maybe I should point out here, that StarCraft had many major improvements (some of them impacting the gameplay itself) as new patches were released.

As a rough and incomplete summary: there were three major balance changes, respectively with Patch 1.04, 1.08 and 1.12. Custom AI was strengthened with Patch 1.04. Replays were added with Patch 1.08. The ability to crush tanks with buildings was added with Patch 1.08. Top vs Bottom was added with Patch 1.08. Rally points were added with Patch 1.12. Full Korean language support was added with Patch 1.12. No need for the game CD to be inserted anymore since Patch 1.15.2. CPU usage optimization started with Patch 1.16.0 (further enhanced in Patch 1.16.1, notably with the optional CPU throttling feature).

The full list of changes can be read here. Patch 1.12 was a landmark in the game's development history imho. StarCraft and its players could benefit imho from another such landmark.

...for it is such steady evolutions which made the game what it is today. Seriously, who would want to play StarCraft nowadays, based on what v1.00 was in 1998?

 

[A Void]

Patrick Wyatt tells us here "about how difficult it was to make StarCraft, largely through poor choices made at every level of the company about the game’s direction, technology and design". A must-read imho.

A very interesting article, indeed.

 

[Linaze]

What's the point of remastering a nearly twenty year old game purely for graphical purposes (and charging for it)? Are they doing it for the future or solely for "now"? They should learn a thing or two from Age of Empires Remastered, it improved upon what made the game so great.

It's not only for graphical purposes; matchmaking and custom hotkeys come to mind. Also the point should be quite obvious: Korea.

Which Age of Empires? The upcoming remake of the first, which is just that, or the HD edition of the second game, which to my knowledge didn't alter the core gameplay, but rather focused on supporting higher resolutions and adding new content.

You think that new players will be attracted to the free version of Starcraft? You have to pay money to get vital support of resolutions. That turns every new player away. Since when do we have to pay for technical aspects of the game? Starcraft Remastered introduced nothing, improved nothing, it's solely a graphical overhaul. If people want to pay for it it's their choice, it won't be long when it's distributed illegally.

I believe players with no experience from the original BW would be very unlikely to be interested in a remastered BW, improved pathfinding or not.

The same timeless gameplay that they advertise was technical limitations back then when Starcraft was under development. The 12 unit selection limit was a technical design limitation that was passed from Warcraft 2 (which SC engine was made from) to Warcraft 3. The interface wasn't designed to support more than 12 units and selection depended more on computer's memory (RAM) which was tiny back then. The more units you have selected the more memory has to be stored for interface and movement commands. In War3, ordering a huge number of units via unit groups (trigger) causes pathfinding lag, units start to stop moving. If War3 pathfinding wasn't that great, just think how worse SC1's was.

It could very well be designed the way it is due to technical limitations. Other contemporary RTS games had no trouble supporting more than 12 unit selection, but of course it varies from game engine to game engine among other factors.

Whether the design was by choice or not however does not change the end result. The gameplay was in the end designed in a specific way which made for a specific gameplay. You cannot alter the core design without also altering the gameplay and balance of the game. This basically means any change to the game's core systems would make the remaster a different game from the original BW.

Pathfinding was crappy because of the same reason, it was passed from Warcraft 2(which had shitty pathfinding as well). It's not a design choice or intended gameplay when your units can't properly move from one point to another. Not to mention that you have to control up to 200 units, which is a technical nightmare. That's probably the reason why air-strategies are much popular in Starcraft 1, air units are easier to control, they don't have such problems.

Simply because Blizzard did not actively design the pathfinding with its signature shittiness in mind does not mean it hasn't become a feature over the years. Changing/improving it would alter the game and likely ruin its balance entirely.

 

[A Void]

Whether the design was by choice or not however does not change the end result. The gameplay was in the end designed in a specific way which made for a specific gameplay. You cannot alter the core design without also altering the gameplay and balance of the game. This basically means any change to the game's core systems would make the remaster a different game from the original BW.

So what prevents you from playing original Brood War? It's freeware now, you can install it any time. Remastered should not be limited to design limitations that existed years ago.

If you want to play original BW no one is stopping you. I'd want Remastered to be open for all players, casual and returning alike. Not those "original" fanatics who are stuck in the past.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Crushing tanks?? In StarCraft? Nuh-uh.

 

[pyf]

Crushing tanks?? In StarCraft? Nuh-uh.

Quoted from the Patch 1.08c notes:
"If you are really clever, you can crush tanks by landing buildings on them. This is the unexpected consequence to fixing a cheeze that allowed players to have siege tanks underneath barracks."

 

[Kyrbi0]

Quoted from the Patch 1.08c notes:
"If you are really clever, you can crush tanks by landing buildings on them. This is the unexpected consequence to fixing a cheeze that allowed players to have siege tanks underneath barracks."

I thought we were taking about original StarCraft. Or Warcraft. Nevermind. Cool!

 

[_lycan]

I don't recommend anyone spending their 15$ for a graphical overhaul. Those who brought the original game basically threw their 20$ into air, it's a disgrace for them to make cash out of an 20 year old game.

The limited selection, horrible unit pathing are still there. Campaign single-player is boring, same repeat "kill all" missions, you spend 30 minutes creating an army and doing it for the entirety of a single mission. Brood War campaign is a nightmare for normal players who don't micro or obsess over their APM count.

Multi player is off-limits to new comers or casual players, you should stay away from it completely.

Star Craft was a great game in it's time but today.. it sucks. The only good thing about it is story and music.

Don't waste your money and just play the free version.

Someones butthurt? they got 20 years out of gameplay hows that throwing your money into air? LOL

 

[Jumbo]

^Someone must resort to ad hominem attacks due to lack of a point ? - It seems so.

 

[Kyrbi0]

^Someone must resort to ad hominem attacks due to lack of a point ? - It seems so.

Observing that someone is upset is not an ad hominem.

 

[Jumbo]

Saying 'butthurt' is not - and can never be - just an observation.