Starcraft II Wings of Liberty Coop

[AnArmadillo]

Some more

- Very 1st mission should have a hellion warning (but doesn't, at least on hard)
- The bonus heroes in the 1st mission don't play the "jump out" animation in the beginning
- Difference between "Abort mission" and "Quit" ?
- At least Mission 1 and 2 allows team creation in the lobby ("Custom Teams" is selected?)
- In the Mira mission Player 2 (I think) has a black button for spider mine deployment. It seems to show 3 mines, but is unselectable.
- The "minerals collected" panel shows on Devils Playground on the game over screen
- The Merc Compound has a tiny flicker in the UI when you select it, and it displays the effect of Radio Free Zerg for some reason
- Workers "steal" minerals when the bases are close, but I don't suppose you can do anything against that
- Just a though about gas trade: In The Dig there is one expansion with 2 gas I think, giving one player a major boost. Maybe that's indended so this player can focus on tanks?
- Don't know if intentional, but the reapers in the Reaper Mission are not picked up in the ending sequence

Zeratul 1. mission:
-----------------------
- The Apprentices Hints still say their death fails the mission
- The mission is still "All Heroes must survive"
- Maybe respawn the others on checkpoint if not >=brutal?
- Credits resources are not displayed at the end


Zeratul 2. mission:
------------------------
- The terran factory hint is displayed on start
- Maybe a few too many enemies in the first wave, which comes more or less together with the hybrid? Just a suggestion, maybe other people feel the same or different.
- The hybrid gets sometimes stuck here and won't do anything


Zeratul 3. mission:
------------------------
- Not each player got a colossus, don't know if it's a bug or not.
- A start base might still be covered in creep when obtaining it, preventing building placement for a minute
- The mission fails when one of the other heroes dies (should it?)



Side note, not really related:

The lava looks like this for me (in all lava-missions). My graphics settings are all on the highest possible (usually ultra) and I remember having a better texture than this on an old computer a long time ago. Does anyone know how I can fix that? Never mind that, Reparing SC2 from the Battle.Net launcher fixed it, after downloading some MB. Apparently I was missing some files... oO

 

[Rhapsodos]

Love the maps so far and the new upgrades, especially the science vessel attack. Quick unimportant things to bring up.

1) There was a bug on the first protoss mission where I supposedly lost 3 stalkers out of nowhere, but a few seconds later, 76 of them spawned and I pretty much steamrolled the rest of the map lol. I haven't been able to replicate it, so it will most likely just stay a one-off thing.

2) I was just wondering if you knew that the Warpigs were free after Zero Hour. It's not a gripe I have as they only cost 1 credit and are definitely worth it. Just wondering.

Also, thank you for making 1 excess protoss/zerg point be worth 2 credits. It gives more room for army variety, especially with all of the new upgrade options.

 

[RED BARON]

EDIT:

Also, thank you for making 1 excess protoss/zerg point be worth 2 credits. It gives more room for army variety, especially with all of the new upgrade options.

Didn't know that (new feature?). Thanks - at any rate it might make some changes to what I wrote below.

Some bugs:
The "Gates of Hell" mission has two Vespene Geysers that can't be build on (1 for each gold base) due to blocking terrain - Likely not intended.

At one point in one of the last campaign's (we followed your numbering) I suddenly got 46 protoss research (crystals), sadly I do not recall which mission it occurred on, but it was about one mission before we could afford the last upgrade for protoss.

Tanks are OP with their upgrades. +40 damage on hit to primary target, woot woot!

Haha, yea the mech units individual dmg is fine and in the beginning mech can keep up, but as the upgrades stack up you realize that bio builds faster, move faster(stim), can deal with air (easy), their numbers makes up the dmg and are quick & easy to replace - and bio upgrades are useful for the special missions where you only have infantry units (For the secret mission on hard, we lost when I was host (he had medics + hero, I the rest), while we lost 1 unit when we switched so he was host and thus had the bio upgrades, while killing everything -except of course immortal hybrid (+ barely used any of the special items).

Mech upgrades is also more expensive and you cannot get all + mech units are delayed which includes their upgrades (so you have to save up for them without knowledge of what they will be), so less impact of your units.

So for us, the maps often went (most noticeable after the bio shield upgrade): both are building an army - I get a decent mech up and he gets the bio death-ball - then I take perhaps one base, and had defense (bunker upgrades and the siege tanks) while he cleaned the rest.

In the media campaign mission we didn't attack with the Odin and instead build each an army, waiting until we had each maxed out. My mech+air army didn't even manage to finish one of the bases on that map, before my mates bio army had annihilated everything else (with more than 2 minutes left on the timer for the alarm to sound). Now the fact that we could just build up armies without the enemies doing anything and then trigger the alarm, is that a bug?

The bio army was somewhat slowed in the "Maw of the Void" mission, thanks to the rip-field - however I cannot recall if my mate had the shield upgrade for it, because if so he would likely not take dmg on any of his infantry units.

Just for fun (and without taking any upgrades other than stim and shield into consideration + ignoring healing, splash and so forth, here is a table showing a little of why the bio army with shield rules):

Spoiler: DPS and total health is notable

And here we aren't even considering moment speed, easy healing (compared to repair options), life of marauders to tank dmg, the lack of air damage from tanks, the lower dps for battle-cruisers to air.

Looking at those numbers I can understand how my max mech army used about 1-3 seconds to kill a Hive (pending on configuration), while the bio army did it in about 0.5 seconds.

Heck, even the +40 dmg to tanks equals only 2200 dps - a mere 100 more than pure marines and that is only in siege mode.

But yea, all of this is just a lead-up for me to suggest more upgrades for mech (or just a change to choices - can't recall if I got the build speed upgrade for them or if I picked something else equally useful). Because while the mech army is fine and can finish missions, bio is just faster, get most upgrades faster and the advantage of bio upgrades on hero maps are significant.

 

[AnArmadillo]

- Merc compound loses its selection circle after a very short delay
- The Thor in the Nova mission cannot be moved up the ramp above it
- The Nova mission grants HUGE amounts of minerals/Protoss research?



- Tosh's mission seems to be missing some upgrade menus, also I didn't seem to get any credit from it
- Shouldn't Matt in the Mira mission tell you about how you can salvage stuff etc.? I'm not sure he does.
- There are also no Portraits during the Mira mission mid game sequence (are there portraits in other coop sequences?)

 

[LordDz]

Lots of comments and I'll try to reply to all.

T.Chosen made me aware that you couldn't get Orbitals until mission 12 in the original campaign, so I moved it to mission 10.
1st mission doesn't have Hellions..? Do you mean the second one?
NEVER use the menu to quit. ALWAYS use the mission complete to save your progress. I'll try to make it more clear.

Mira is still a bit buggy, not sure why it's greyed but I'll check it out.

Workers like sharing their mineral patches with others, that's just how things are.
Some maps only have 1-2 expansions, that's both due map size but also that you're supposed to do teamwork, not just have 1 base per player and then everyone does their own thing.
Reapers in that mission not getting picked up isn't intentional, I thought I fixed that but I'll check it out again.
I'll take a look at the hints and the factory tips.

I thought I fixed the Odin mission, the units are supposed to be paused until the Odin attacks. Oh well.

Nova mission is bugged, I'll fix.

I'll take a look at the rest of the bugs too.

 

[AnArmadillo]

Sorry, you are right. I meant the second mission. There should be a "Warning: Dominion Hellions approaching" or something, that is missing here.

- Does "In Utter Darkness" say "Glorious End!" instead of "Victory"?
- Are you not displaying the original mission hints in the loading screen on purpose or is that a bug?
- Zeratul 3: Do you get the bonus units + their dialogue when reactivating the buildings across the map like in the campaign? I can't remember.

So not having orbitals early is intended, nice. That seems to be working.

We really apprechiate the effort you're pouring into this!

 

[Erikcht]

Hi, LordDz
I like your work.
Please, i have some feedback to send you.
The map "all in" i saw some friend upgrading their comander center and using "upgrades' on towers and i cannot use this.
My char is the blue that stay on the middle, can you see this ?

 

[LordDz]

Have you played any missions before and bought any upgrades?
If not, play from mission 1.
From mission 4 you will get upgrades.

I know War Pigs were free in SP, they're not in MP They're mercs after all, they need to be paid.
Edit: Fixed lots of stuff, it's written on each mission.

 

[Erikcht]

But the missions are arcade ...
Do they talk to each other?

 

[LordDz]

Yes, progress and upgrades will be saved from each mission.
I suggest you play them from the start with a friend or two for the best experience.

 

[RED BARON]

But the missions are arcade ...
Do they talk to each other?

Remember to leave using the far right icon in the upgrade menu, and look at the bottom corner icon for a save to banks icon. Don't leave the game using the regular menu.

 

[LordDz]

I added a hint for that on the loading screen for the first mission, should hopefully make it a bit more obvious.
However non-english speakers will probably still have an issue with it.

EDIT: I'm slowly adding cinematic skipping to the maps, right now map 1's cinematic can be skipped when all players press escape.

 

[AnArmadillo]

Hey, more stuff to fix

- Zeratul's Apprentices don't look at Kerrigan in the last fragment sequence
- Stalker in the beginning of Zeratul Mission 2 does not attack until after he has given his speech in the campaign, here he attacks immediately, but maybe that's better, because I hadn't noticed it in SP before he attacked, just assumed he talks out of nowhere, like every other person.
- You can give minerals to allys that are not players (at least in Zeratul 2, like "Void Seeker")
- If a player leaves the game you get their resources (at least you can use them), enabling accidental cheating
- Haven's fall: Typo in Loading screen description: "to much dismay" (not "too")
- Safe Haven: Typo in Loading screen description: There is a space missing after a dot.
- Supernova: "Violate Firestorms" in loading screen description...
- Supernova: At least 1 player got no automated refinery although they had the upgrade
- Maw of the Void: Templar Prison is not visible in "free us" sequence
- Engine of Destruction:

• At least one spaceport cannot land in the beginning
• Factory hint gotten when building phase begins
• One player has only 1 gas, not sure if intended

For the skipping, do you communicate this option to the players somewhere?

PS: Baneling spin best

 

[Erikcht]

Wow, now i understand how it's works
I couldndt imagine that those maps are integrated. I thought those are standalone...

 

[LordDz]

Hey, more stuff to fix

- Zeratul's Apprentices don't look at Kerrigan in the last fragment sequence
- Stalker in the beginning of Zeratul Mission 2 does not attack until after he has given his speech in the campaign, here he attacks immediately, but maybe that's better, because I hadn't noticed it in SP before he attacked, just assumed he talks out of nowhere, like every other person.
- You can give minerals to allys that are not players (at least in Zeratul 2, like "Void Seeker")
- If a player leaves the game you get their resources (at least you can use them), enabling accidental cheating
- Haven's fall: Typo in Loading screen description: "to much dismay" (not "too")
- Safe Haven: Typo in Loading screen description: There is a space missing after a dot.
- Supernova: "Violate Firestorms" in loading screen description...
- Supernova: At least 1 player got no automated refinery although they had the upgrade
- Maw of the Void: Templar Prison is not visible in "free us" sequence
- Engine of Destruction:

• At least one spaceport cannot land in the beginning
• Factory hint gotten when building phase begins
• One player has only 1 gas, not sure if intended

For the skipping, do you communicate this option to the players somewhere?

PS: Baneling spin best

Yay more bugs to fix! I'll go through them today.
I'm going to communicate my new fixes with the mission completed, it has a passive button saying things.
I'll also add a hint that shows only once for the players.

"If a player leaves the game you get their resources (at least you can use them), enabling accidental cheating"
Is that one still happening? I've tried setting player resources to 0, set them to not be allies, disabled resource trading.. Yet it's still happening.

Baneling spin..?

 

[AnArmadillo]

You don't see the resources, but you can use them.

A baneling in Zeratul 3 spins in the intro sequence

- Predator research tooltip: should be "Adds the Predator >to< the Factory."
- Some unlocalized text in the german version (quests and dialog):


I don't know much about the map editor but I think you can remove incompletely translated languages, in case you didn't do so. If you need translation help for german I can help you.

 

[LordDz]

I'm still a bit split wether I should add translation support or not. I'm leaning towards just setting everything to english, it sure would be the easiest way.

Well, if the baneling wants to spin I'd say let him spin!

 

[AnArmadillo]

We finished it today, on hard! Again, great work you did!

- Emergency Drop Pods: Shouldn't they be an action like MULE, not a unit in the queue?
- Media Blitz:

• Loading screen text: "The Raiders" not "The Raider's"
• Merc compound was unusable, at least by allies (It did not "switch" the selected unit to the buy options)
• I was a support player (2 or 3) and could not build a merc compound

- Secret mission:

• Reinforcement drop: Medic player got no units when selecting marines? Intended?
• Too easy? Does everybody get 5 Grenades etc. or are they shared across all players? Maybe give non-shared items to everyone, but less? (But how is that done in Archon mode then...?)
• 2nd Part of the Mission: Find Protoss Relics 0/0 - not sure if that is the same way in the campaign, it might switch to 0/1 when you see the first one.
• No Resources visible at the end

- Gates of Hell:

• Switched start screen position for support players
• Firebat in intro sequence does not attack / bugged attack animation
• Pods often die as soon as they spawn through enemies, no "safe time" like there is in the campaign

- Zerg flyers kill mission:

• Switched start screen position for support players
• Starport & Factory hint - what is it with those hints? Why do they appear all the time?

- Tunnel mission: Cannot see resources at the end
- Last mission:

• Factory & Starport hint again...
• The goal is reached very fast (essentially half the supply of the campaign is needed for each player)

- Some missions (like the Marauder Mission I think) give you a techlab at the start. It works, but the model shows the "unconnected" state
- Overall: The difficulty is not really a curve. Some missions are quite easy, while earlier missions (like Devils Playground or Zeratul 2) are a lot harder.


Keep the spinning baneling, the mission wouldn't be the same without him!


You can use depots to block mineral stealers.

 

[LordDz]

Starport & Factory hint - what is it with those hints? Why do they appear all the time?

There is a trigger action in every original map called "Create storymode tips", since it uses the campaign data for that, it will not know that the player has seen it before.
I've removed them from most maps now, but there are still some that I've missed removing.

I'll take a look at the rest of the bugs

 

[AnArmadillo]

The tips: Weird, we all have seen it already, and yet it showed again. I would assume it saves that information in the bank where the other settings are also stored? Shouldn't that work properly then?

 

[LordDz]

Nah, those tips use the local campaign data for the original campaign.
And since I base every off my own bank file (because I can't edit the local campaign file) the tips doesn't save the setting that you've seen them the first time you see them.
But like I said, it's easily fixed. I just missed removing the tip from a couple of maps.

 

[AnArmadillo]

Ok, weird, because in the folder for your maps (2-S2-1-262519 ?) there used to be a lot of campaign banks (I backed up the original folder and removed it), just started anew and now there's just BankCoop. I was thinking the missions created their own, albeit unused campaign bank files.

I don't know if you've tackled some of the less severe bugs yet, here are just some observations.

(Europe)

- There's a hint card for Supply depots too, which does not appear in later missions. Maybe that's somehow related to the factories being "airdropped" ?
- Do you get upgrades you got in a later missions for earlier missions when you replay them? In that case having the Merc Compound buildable makes sense...
- Mission 1:

• Resources not visible at the end

- Mission 2:

• Hellion Warning works!
• Merc Compound still buildable

- Smash & Grab:

• Merc Compound buildable (Is it usable yet? I don't think so, that's the first mission with upgrades, no?)

- Evacuation:

• Crysalis DNA Text Bug "DNA3/3)", not sure if that's Blizzards fault though

I really hope you're not too annoyed by all those bug reports. I think your project is awesome, and would like to see it as perfect as it can be, so I also report minor things that should be easy to fix (text misspellings etc.). On top of that I'm quite interested in SC2/Coop modding, but haven't attempted to use the editor myself yet.

 

[LordDz]

Nah I mean, the local campaign in the original uses one bank file. This one I cannot edit. The hints use this one.
I cannot make the story hint action use my own bank. The solution is to remove the action. I just missed doing it on a few maps.
Some missions do have specific hints, this works as intended.

I'm not annoyed by the bug reports, they're really useful for me.
It's just a bit energy consuming to fix them, but that's just life.

 

[AnArmadillo]

Alright, glad to hear that. I'm sure there are more reports to come!

 

[Spellbound]

not sure if it's been reported yet, but the after accessing the second terminal on the secret mission (to release the zerglings or zealots or ultras) the UI didn't come up for either me or my ally, so we weren't able to use abilities or even attack-move.

 

[Hartog]

I think it would be useful to perhaps show during the load screens in the early missions that you should play the maps in the numbered order the missions have been given. I played the evacuation before Smash and grab which caused some weird behavior where I wasn't entirely sure what would happen. I got War Pigs after beating the evacuation and then i could get them again in after finishing Smash and grab (though I didn't). I replayed the evacuation after that and I still had access to War Pigs which may or may not be intended behavior.

Also though I haven't been able to replicate it today when I played the regular game UI was completely screwed up. The Terran green borders around the regular ui such as the map and unit stats were gone and everything was black. I could still see ui parts but it looks awful and was kind of annoying.

Actually it looked like this Missing UI Border - Triggers - Development - SC2 Mapster Forums - SC2Mapster

 

[LordDz]

Did you get the UI bug when you played the secret mission or just a different mission?
Because if it's not the secret mission, then it usually happens if you played an arcade map that changes the UI and then plays a different map.

I'll change the loading screen tips, thanks for the tip.

 

[Spellbound]

Pretty sure we hadn't played any other maps before playing the secret mission. The UI bug occured only on the secret mission.

 

[LordDz]

I uploaded a new version of it today, hopefully it fixes the UI being removed on computer console 2.

 

[Hartog]

..then it usually happens if you played an arcade map that changes the UI and then plays a different map.

Mhh that must indeed have been the issue as I had previously played Direct Strike and the bug hasn't happened since.

All the following stuff has happened when I've been playing as host with one friend. So i control 2 bases presumably player 1 and 3. And here is a list of the most serious bugs I've encountered. (not in order).

1. When getting the choice to play Breakout or Ghost of a chance, I couldn't start Breakout as I couldn't create a lobby for it. The create lobby button was out of focus with a tooltip of something like "gathering dependencies". A process that is never ending. So naturally I instead went with Ghost of a chance which worked fine but in the following missions I only got Dominion upgrades for Spectres and not Ghosts. I could also only build Spectres.

2. After completing Ghost of a chance I also received 20 extra minerals ie protoss research which is still sticking around.

3. A bug I've had is that I can get Hercules upgrades for credits even though I never picked Hercules as a research option.

4. When building a new mercenary camp in the new base in Maw of the void I couldn't hire any units out of it. The camp back in the first base still worked fine. Not sure what caused this. I've noticed that when selecting the merc camp the selection gets "moved" to a dummy I assume so perhaps something weird happened there. I believe new merc camps have worked on other maps.

5. After doing all the protoss missions and allocating all that juicy research gathered they weren't actually in the following numbered mission. They were present in the mission after that however.

6. I'll also second that during the Media Blitz mission when trying it alone I had control of 2 of the command centers during the initial Odin attack while only the third was controlled by the computer named Raynors Raiders. The one controlled by Raynors Raiders is the bottom left one if that matters.

Edit: 7. I could get some of the terrazine upgrades even if I didn't have enough terrazine. When hovering the mouse over the upgrade the terrazine cost was displayed but not in red it might have been something like 6 while I had 3 terrazine and when i clicked the button it disappeared and I went down to 0 terrazine. I hovered over some of the other researches where some would be non red so presumably I could click them though I didn't. Actually come to think of it this may have been due to using my allys terrazine as he had probably left at the time. It may also be the cause of seemingly getting 20 minerals (toss research) after the Ghost mission but here I'm not sure as I believe my ally also got those 20 minerals.

So far I've played and completed up until Engine of Destruction on brutal and I'm a huge fan of the regular WoL campaign which I've probably completed on brutal at least 30 times in various tech paths. So, some general thoughts on the additions. I like most of them especially the +15% attack speed from sensor towers it actually made me use them in campaign maps which is not something I considered before and they are quite helpful even without the attack speed bonus so I'd say a very nice upgrade.

The 30 shields points to all infantry is massively overpowered however. It might be okay if it's for a single infantry type except for marines but giving all infantry +30 shields is crazy. Compare in standard campaign where +10 hp for marine due to combat shields is a good upgrade. Now this one is 3 times that plus it's added to all infantry.

I would nerf this to a maximum of +10 shields which by the way also makes them immune while having shields to the Rip fields in Maw of the void which is kind of stupid lore wise but that may not be such a big concern. I could also accept something cute like giving only medics 30 shields or giving only all gas costing infantry 10 shields. Marines are already massively strong. Especially with the +20 cooldown attack that was very helpful in taking down higher armor units such as the battlecruisers in Engine of destruction making the initial Wraiths moot. I would increase the cooldown (double at least) of this ability and decrease the damage to maybe 15. Currently marines are beast units with more health than a standard WoL hydralisk and brings their initial damage burst to a quite a lot while costing only 50 minerals. I don't remember what the cost of the infantry shields research was but even if it's +10 shields to all infantry it should cost at least 4x the amount of credits of combat shields. Wait this upgrade may have been a protoss research at the automated refinery tier. Even so I would value that at what I've stated earlier.

The infantry also do not get the shield bubble effect when taking a hit which is fairly easy to add. Should be a quick google I remember doing it years ago but I'm not quite sure how to do it anymore it's been so long. Just some actor event modifications I think and maybe some shield radius type setting in maybe the model.

Now on the whole campaign structure. I know this might be annoying to change so it's not something I would consider super neccesary but.. The Protoss missions were always a nice break from the terran play. Having them all in a row is kind of purpose defeating. It also heavily buffs your research points so you go from not having that much research to suddenly being almost finished with all research. A massive power spike wherein you miss playing with a bit more moderate research. I would interlay these missions a bit more. Maybe one toss->terran->toss->terran and so on or toss->toss->terran->toss->terran->toss.

I am also not a fan of getting battlecruisers at mission 20 as they are quite powerful in the campaign and you can basically win the rest of the missions with battlecruisers. They are especially helpful in Engine of destruction. I would rather have it as the last mission before going to Char. Generally I would prefer an order of something like Haven->Engine of Destruction->Media Blitz->Supernova->Secret Mission->Maw of the void->Char. (Supernova was also very easy due to how much minerals and gas we could collect along with having super powerful marines with Siege breaker support.

Should all players always have a max of 200 population? When playing two players we together max out at 400 and I presume when there are 3 players we would max out at 600. Is this intended?

 

[RED BARON]

The 30 shields points to all infantry is massively overpowered however. It might be okay if it's for a single infantry type except for marines but giving all infantry +30 shields is crazy. Compare in standard campaign where +10 hp for marine due to combat shields is a good upgrade. Now this one is 3 times that plus it's added to all infantry.

Yea, glad to see others share my sentiment about it.

 

[LordDz]

Big blob of text, I'll do my best of answering it.

Mhh that must indeed have been the issue as I had previously played Direct Strike and the bug hasn't happened since.

All the following stuff has happened when I've been playing as host with one friend. So i control 2 bases presumably player 1 and 3. And here is a list of the most serious bugs I've encountered. (not in order).

1. When getting the choice to play Breakout or Ghost of a chance, I couldn't start Breakout as I couldn't create a lobby for it. The create lobby button was out of focus with a tooltip of something like "gathering dependencies". A process that is never ending. So naturally I instead went with Ghost of a chance which worked fine but in the following missions I only got Dominion upgrades for Spectres and not Ghosts. I could also only build Spectres.
Gathering dependencies probably meant that the server was acting up, it's nothing I can fix.
Ghost selection looked at the current mission rather than the number which it is saved at (17). It's now fixed.

2. After completing Ghost of a chance I also received 20 extra minerals ie protoss research which is still sticking around.
Bonus credits were set to the wrong resource type, fixed!

3. A bug I've had is that I can get Hercules upgrades for credits even though I never picked Hercules as a research option.
Fixed!

4. When building a new mercenary camp in the new base in Maw of the void I couldn't hire any units out of it. The camp back in the first base still worked fine. Not sure what caused this. I've noticed that when selecting the merc camp the selection gets "moved" to a dummy I assume so perhaps something weird happened there. I believe new merc camps have worked on other maps.
It's a bug, you're only supposed to get one. Fixing..

5. After doing all the protoss missions and allocating all that juicy research gathered they weren't actually in the following numbered mission. They were present in the mission after that however.
You should now get the tier 3 research in mission 15 as well. Thanks for pointing that one out!

6. I'll also second that during the Media Blitz mission when trying it alone I had control of 2 of the command centers during the initial Odin attack while only the third was controlled by the computer named Raynors Raiders. The one controlled by Raynors Raiders is the bottom left one if that matters.
Player one isn't supposed to have a Command Center when they're controlling the Odin, so it's intentional.

Edit: 7. I could get some of the terrazine upgrades even if I didn't have enough terrazine. When hovering the mouse over the upgrade the terrazine cost was displayed but not in red it might have been something like 6 while I had 3 terrazine and when i clicked the button it disappeared and I went down to 0 terrazine. I hovered over some of the other researches where some would be non red so presumably I could click them though I didn't. Actually come to think of it this may have been due to using my allys terrazine as he had probably left at the time. It may also be the cause of seemingly getting 20 minerals (toss research) after the Ghost mission but here I'm not sure as I believe my ally also got those 20 minerals.
It's a bug where when a player leaves the game, the other players can still use their resources. I've tried and tried to fix it but it still remains.

So far I've played and completed up until Engine of Destruction on brutal and I'm a huge fan of the regular WoL campaign which I've probably completed on brutal at least 30 times in various tech paths. So, some general thoughts on the additions. I like most of them especially the +15% attack speed from sensor towers it actually made me use them in campaign maps which is not something I considered before and they are quite helpful even without the attack speed bonus so I'd say a very nice upgrade.
Happy to hear that, I felt like they needed a small boost as often you have vision of enough of the map to not bother building them.

The 30 shields points to all infantry is massively overpowered however. It might be okay if it's for a single infantry type except for marines but giving all infantry +30 shields is crazy. Compare in standard campaign where +10 hp for marine due to combat shields is a good upgrade. Now this one is 3 times that plus it's added to all infantry.
I'll nerf it to 15.

I would nerf this to a maximum of +10 shields which by the way also makes them immune while having shields to the Rip fields in Maw of the void which is kind of stupid lore wise but that may not be such a big concern. I could also accept something cute like giving only medics 30 shields or giving only all gas costing infantry 10 shields. Marines are already massively strong. Especially with the +20 cooldown attack that was very helpful in taking down higher armor units such as the battlecruisers in Engine of destruction making the initial Wraiths moot. I would increase the cooldown (double at least) of this ability and decrease the damage to maybe 15. Currently marines are beast units with more health than a standard WoL hydralisk and brings their initial damage burst to a quite a lot while costing only 50 minerals. I don't remember what the cost of the infantry shields research was but even if it's +10 shields to all infantry it should cost at least 4x the amount of credits of combat shields. Wait this upgrade may have been a protoss research at the automated refinery tier. Even so I would value that at what I've stated earlier.
The shield upgrade is on of the lab research, you forgo automated refineries in doing so.

The infantry also do not get the shield bubble effect when taking a hit which is fairly easy to add. Should be a quick google I remember doing it years ago but I'm not quite sure how to do it anymore it's been so long. Just some actor event modifications I think and maybe some shield radius type setting in maybe the model.
It's not hard to do, it's just bloody time consuming. Warcraft 3's upgrade system was nice: Do an effect, apply it to all units.
Sc2's way: Do an effect, repeat it to every unit that uses that upgrade.

Now on the whole campaign structure. I know this might be annoying to change so it's not something I would consider super neccesary but.. The Protoss missions were always a nice break from the terran play. Having them all in a row is kind of purpose defeating. It also heavily buffs your research points so you go from not having that much research to suddenly being almost finished with all research. A massive power spike wherein you miss playing with a bit more moderate research. I would interlay these missions a bit more. Maybe one toss->terran->toss->terran and so on or toss->toss->terran->toss->terran->toss.
The Protoss missions are entirely optional when you decide to play them. Just because they're numbered in the way that they aren't doesn't mean you can just wait a bit on playing them.

I am also not a fan of getting battlecruisers at mission 20 as they are quite powerful in the campaign and you can basically win the rest of the missions with battlecruisers. They are especially helpful in Engine of destruction. I would rather have it as the last mission before going to Char. Generally I would prefer an order of something like Haven->Engine of Destruction->Media Blitz->Supernova->Secret Mission->Maw of the void->Char. (Supernova was also very easy due to how much minerals and gas we could collect along with having super powerful marines with Siege breaker support.
I won't change the order of the missions now. It's just too much work. (Recreate image, fixing triggers, testing that it works, etc) If you think they're too overpowered in a mission, don't use them in that mission
I will however increase the difficulty of the later missions when I add the skipping of briefings on them.

Should all players always have a max of 200 population? When playing two players we together max out at 400 and I presume when there are 3 players we would max out at 600. Is this intended?
Now players will have a 200, 150, 125 limit depending on how many players there are. I didn't just want to split it to 200/3 cuz that would set it to a mere 66 supply per player.

EDIT: Mod uploaded with fixes.

 

[Hartog]

I'll upload the changes in a hour or two.

Great job with the speed. I'll give some opinions on your responses.

Mhh that must indeed have been the issue as I had previously played Direct Strike and the bug hasn't happened since.

All the following stuff has happened when I've been playing as host with one friend. So i control 2 bases presumably player 1 and 3. And here is a list of the most serious bugs I've encountered. (not in order).

Edit: 7. I could get some of the terrazine upgrades even if I didn't have enough terrazine. When hovering the mouse over the upgrade the terrazine cost was displayed but not in red it might have been something like 6 while I had 3 terrazine and when i clicked the button it disappeared and I went down to 0 terrazine. I hovered over some of the other researches where some would be non red so presumably I could click them though I didn't. Actually come to think of it this may have been due to using my allys terrazine as he had probably left at the time. It may also be the cause of seemingly getting 20 minerals (toss research) after the Ghost mission but here I'm not sure as I believe my ally also got those 20 minerals.
It's a bug where when a player leaves the game, the other players can still use their resources. I've tried and tried to fix it but it still remains.
Shame ;/ instinctivly I would think this would be easy to fix by removing resources from the leaving player but I don't know in what order sharing actions are made versus trigger actions. But I assume you've already tried this.

The 30 shields points to all infantry is massively overpowered however. It might be okay if it's for a single infantry type except for marines but giving all infantry +30 shields is crazy. Compare in standard campaign where +10 hp for marine due to combat shields is a good upgrade. Now this one is 3 times that plus it's added to all infantry.
I'll nerf it to 15.
Nice, I would still prefer 10 shields but it's your campaign and I'd say 10 shields makes a more difficult choice when compared to automated refineries.

The infantry also do not get the shield bubble effect when taking a hit which is fairly easy to add. Should be a quick google I remember doing it years ago but I'm not quite sure how to do it anymore it's been so long. Just some actor event modifications I think and maybe some shield radius type setting in maybe the model.
It's not hard to do, it's just bloody time consuming. Warcraft 3's upgrade system was nice: Do an effect, apply it to all units.
Sc2's way: Do an effect, repeat it to every unit that uses that upgrade.
Yeah it's what put me off on making a major map for sc2 I'm afraid. Everything was so much simpler in wc3 and even if you had to bend over backwards to do some technically non supported thing the result would often be good enough in a fraction of the time.

Now on the whole campaign structure. I know this might be annoying to change so it's not something I would consider super neccesary but.. The Protoss missions were always a nice break from the terran play. Having them all in a row is kind of purpose defeating. It also heavily buffs your research points so you go from not having that much research to suddenly being almost finished with all research. A massive power spike wherein you miss playing with a bit more moderate research. I would interlay these missions a bit more. Maybe one toss->terran->toss->terran and so on or toss->toss->terran->toss->terran->toss.
The Protoss missions are entirely optional when you decide to play them. Just because they're numbered in the way that they aren't doesn't mean you can just wait a bit on playing them.
Ah didn't know this, good to hear. Another part well suited to put in a tip somewhere previously to inform the possible order in which to play the campaign.

I am also not a fan of getting battlecruisers at mission 20 as they are quite powerful in the campaign and you can basically win the rest of the missions with battlecruisers. They are especially helpful in Engine of destruction. I would rather have it as the last mission before going to Char. Generally I would prefer an order of something like Haven->Engine of Destruction->Media Blitz->Supernova->Secret Mission->Maw of the void->Char. (Supernova was also very easy due to how much minerals and gas we could collect along with having super powerful marines with Siege breaker support.
I won't change the order of the missions now. It's just too much work. (Recreate image, fixing triggers, testing that it works, etc) If you think they're too overpowered in a mission, don't use them in that mission
I will however increase the difficulty of the later missions when I add the skipping of briefings on them.
Completely understand about not changing the order. Regarding the difficulty, I've noticed minerals last a lot longer in this campaign in most maps. Reducing mineral amounts might be a good way of increasing difficulty and forcing you to expand. Engine of Destruction is a good example here where I think you would run out of minerals in your main base before beating the mission in single player but not in this campaign. Cutthroat also felt way easier with I think a slightly reduced enemy gathering rate and more minerals in our bases.

Should all players always have a max of 200 population? When playing two players we together max out at 400 and I presume when there are 3 players we would max out at 600. Is this intended?
Now players will have a 200, 150, 125 limit depending on how many players there are. I didn't just want to split it to 200/3 cuz that would set it to a mere 66 supply per player.
Great to hear! this will also increase difficulty ;>. As I was basically always playing two players I would almost always get a 200/200 army fast and just steamroll.

 

[LordDz]

The increased minerals is due some players ran out of minerals and that some missions just don't have enough space to put down more expansions, so some players would run out of minerals while others would get an expansion. I guess I could remove 1-2 mineral per base and still keep a high mineral value, so income would be slower.

More enemies on the way!

 

[RED BARON]

I find you mineral amount to be quite fine. Glad to see some changes to the shield - I don't actually per say find it bad, its more of being a too obviously good choice. I would maybe instead have gone for 20 and then buffed something else to make the choice harder (if that make sense). This of course to match on how hard modes you've made available If it didn't mean a lot more work, I guess slightly modified upgrades for each difficultly would be interesting.

 

[Hartog]

I find you mineral amount to be quite fine. Glad to see some changes to the shield - I don't actually per say find it bad, its more of being a too obviously good choice. I would maybe instead have gone for 20 and then buffed something else to make the choice harder (if that make sense). This of course to match on how hard modes you've made available If it didn't mean a lot more work, I guess slightly modified upgrades for each difficultly would be interesting.

My problem is sort of similar. On one hand it is indeed the obvious choice, which consequently makes everything else all the less appealing which is sort of lame and essentially limits user choice if that is what the game is balanced around. On the other hand the way the game was balanced the first missions like evac, smash and grab, devils playground etc were far harder than the later missions just due to how powerful a boost 30shields is. Buffing something else will lead to a third more niche option becoming even more niche and bad in comparison.

 

[Deleted member 212788]

These were incredibly fun to play. We had a great time with them. I just wanted to say thanks for giving us the ability to enjoy the SC2 campaign together over beers. Cheers mate

 

[Rhapsodos]

I think it's a huge shame that the population cap got decreased to what it is, but I guess what's left is better than 200 being split per player. There probably are those who do want 66 pop per player for the sake of "muh difficulty".

Hopefully, it can be a menu option in the future and not a permanent change.

 

[Hartog]

Mhh I don't mind the reduction of total population, though I'm not sure that splitting it equally is a good idea when 2 players are playing. As 1 of those 2 will have twice the income, perhaps split the max pop limit so the player controlling 2 bases gets 2/3rds of the total population.

As it is now we have the situation where one player has the most resources but less effectively available pop space due to have more workers.

 

[LordDz]

I think it's a huge shame that the population cap got decreased to what it is, but I guess what's left is better than 200 being split per player. There probably are those who do want 66 pop per player for the sake of "muh difficulty".

Hopefully, it can be a menu option in the future and not a permanent change.

Those who want higher difficulty can go play insanity mode.

Mhh I don't mind the reduction of total population, though I'm not sure that splitting it equally is a good idea when 2 players are playing. As 1 of those 2 will have twice the income, perhaps split the max pop limit so the player controlling 2 bases gets 2/3rds of the total population.

As it is now we have the situation where one player has the most resources but less effectively available pop space due to have more workers.

I'll look over this, see if I can come up with something good.

These were incredibly fun to play. We had a great time with them. I just wanted to say thanks for giving us the ability to enjoy the SC2 campaign together over beers. Cheers mate

Cheers! (Hive needs a cheers icon)

 

[RED BARON]

Cheers! (Hive needs a cheers icon)

Some suggestions which may serve such a purpose - even if missing a beer:

 

[Deleted member 212788]

Cheers to all. Here's to many more hours of co-op fun in the best RTS version of Aliens ever made

 

[LordDz]

Mmmm...

 

[Aethernum]

I wonder
I see on your screenshot a Heart of the Swarm coop campaign. It will be the fith mission shoot the messenger. Is it already available ? Because I try to find it on the Arcade but I didn’t.
And if you plan to do the same things for Heart of the Swarm in the future how will you approach the Hero system ? Will only the first player will have a hero ?
Or will the other player have a specific hero for each map ?
Will we have to chose our « species » as a zerg and so choose if we want to play primal, classical zerg, or infected terran ?
If we do so will we get a hero link to those choice ?
I know I ask questions about things that you may not have even think about, since Wings of Liberty coop isn’t finish yet, but this is just curiosity.

 

[LordDz]

No, the maps are not out yet. There is still a lot of work to be done before they're finished.

I'm adding two additional heroes which will have their unique abilities.
You will play as the Zerg in the original campaign, adding new races would destroy the lore too much.
However I am adding a new unit to each of the evolution missions to spice things up a bit.

 

[Aethernum]

Ok thanks a lot !

 

[RED BARON]

No, the maps are not out yet. There is still a lot of work to be done before they're finished.

I'm adding two additional heroes which will have their unique abilities.
You will play as the Zerg in the original campaign, adding new races would destroy the lore too much.
However I am adding a new unit to each of the evolution missions to spice things up a bit.

I'll be looking forward to them Zerg power.

 

[Aethernum]

By the way I want to precise you that actually on Brutal, in the third mission Zero Hour, you can’t save the second pack of marines.
When they appear, and it happen each time, some Mutas flyby and murder them. So the only way to save those guys it to be thre before there call occur to support them take down the mutas, and in can be a little tricky on Brutal to do so.
Is there any way to fix that ?

 

[LordDz]

I could move the Mutas attack path away from them. I'll see about getting it done when I get home.
Btw, how is the brutal difficulty holding up? Are there any missions that need to be a bit more... Brutal?

 

[Aethernum]

Actually we done it until the fourth mission in Brutal and everything seem good.
The second wave of marines in the second mission is a little hard if you’re unprepared, but when you know she is coming you can down it with some micro.

And Zero hour seem balanced for now. Get a good front of bunker (4-5) at first on the two bridges, let you’re back mate secure the base agaisnt the zergling drop, muta flyby, and save the marines, and at last prepare the last front. At the second call of marines left bridge gonna fall or be heavily damaged by the bane bust + ultra. Yet we have finished it with losing only one of the top bunkers.

And for the fourth mission it has gone pretty smooth. One of us secure base agaisnt waves of zergs when the two others start attack the west bonus objective. When they got it they go attack the protoss, leaving behind the third player defend the base until he get enought units to support. Only two bunkers and some anti air turrets achieve the job, with a few forces left behind. It was actually the easiest of the four missions we have done until now.