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[SPOILERS] WarCraft the Begining

Discussion in 'Warcraft Discussion' started by Razosh, May 29, 2016.

  1. Razosh

    Razosh

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    Wow, there's so much to talk about here, where to start?

    First even though he played an extremely small part in the film Grommash Hellscream did appear after the Mak'Gora between Blackhand and Anduin Lothar where Lothar killed Blackhand. (Grommash also appeared in a few other locations but this is the only important one.) Gul'Dan tried to kill Lothar to end his threat but was stopped by an orc who was undeniably Grommash Hellscream, Grom simply placed himself in between Lothar and Gul'Dan, because Lothar had won fair and square and honor demanded that no one else would try to harm him. This is the important part because any other orc that had dared to defy Gul'Dan he would simply kill using Fel Magic, he did it to several warriors and he used his fel magic to kill Durotan in their Mak'Gora, he even forced his fel magic on Blackhand not even giving a second though to the consequences. But when Grommash placed himself in between Gul'Dan and Lothar, Gul'Dan simply froze for a few seconds and then tried to sneak his way around Grommash. This is really important as Gul'Dan has shown that he is not afraid of anyone, not Blackhand, Orgrim, Durotan, Garona, no one, but he was terrefied of Grommash Hellscream, just further proving what an absolute badass Grommash was.

    A second thing I really want to bring up is how Durotan died, Gul'Dan pressured for time decided to cheat in Mak'Gora by using his magical abilities in the sacred duel. This agravated the orcs into almost rebelling against Gul'Dan something they surely would have done too had not the humans almost immediately afterwards attacked. But it's also worth mentioning that Thrall, the son of Durotan cheats in his Mak'Gora against Garrosh not once but twice by first walking into the battle with armor and then using his shamanistic powers to defeat Garrosh. I know without a doubt in my mind that had Varok Saurfang witnessed this he would have denounced Thrall as an orc and slaughtered him where he stood as he witnessed the Mak'Gora between Gul'Dan and Durotan. How do I know this might you ask, did I see him in the film? No, here's how I know it.

    I also know that there's nothing Varok values higher then honor as proven here:

    If Varok knew of Thralls actions he would have called Thrall an orc without honor, and in truth that Thrall was an orc no longer. He would say that Thrall is not a true warrior but a maggot that preys on the helpless and the weak rather than facing a worthy foe. This film more than anything proves how sacred Mak'Gora is and if his deeds became public knowledge he would be seen as nothing else than a abomination and attacked on sight as a traitor to the Horde. For how is what Thrall did any better than what Gul'Dan did to Durotan or what Magetha did to Cairne?

    We also have a few things which are A LOT different in the film compared to the in-game canon story. In the film Llane asks Garona to assassinate him at the battle of the Dark Portal when all is evidently lost, this is in order to let Garona live on, after her "heroic" deed she is named an orc by Gul'Dan and welcomed by the clans as one of theirs, a hero of her people. In the game however Garona, under the influence of the Old God Yogg-Saron assassinates Llane inside the city of Stormwind.

    Secondly and this is HUGE! Med'an was never born, in the original story Garona was sent to Karazan as an emissary where she and Medivh had an affair which resulted in the birth of Med'an. But as we can see in this film, that affair never happened and as a result Med'an will never be born which will change the story quite a lot.

    If I were to go into every minor change this post would be too long for any to read but those were the two that I found to huge not to mention. So here's your chance to chat and discuss the film in its entirety, no boundries. As for me I think this is the video-game licensed film we've been waiting for, it was amazing.
     
  2. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    I reacted to this as well. I guess Thrall got away with it since no one witnessed the duel.
    Still it seems very out of character for Green Jesus to cheat, even if he can get away with it.

    Maybe that's why the doomhammer said FU.
     
  3. Razosh

    Razosh

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    Yeah the Doomhammer is like me in EU4. "Listen Denmark this personal union we have going isn't working for me so I hope you wont mind that I'm going to rip you a new arse-hole."
     
  4. Razosh

    Razosh

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    All right so I've given this some thought as to how the movie could have been improved and this is what I think:

    1. Switch out Khadgar for Aegwynn. This is because Khadgar is just the most random character ever, within the WarCraft games lore Khadgar serves a much clearer purpose but in this film he's just dropped in for pretty much no reason what so ever. Aegwynn in my opinion would have made a much more logical choice. I mean think about it Khadgar is a mage appreantice and yet he's the one who understands fel to a much larger degree than anyone even the highest ranked mages of the Kirin Tor... BUT WHY? The essential answer we're give is "... duh, reasons." I think WarCraft is a good film but why pick Khadgar, why? If Aegwynn would have gotten the question "how come you know more about the demons than any high ranked official within the Kirin Tor?" The response would have been "I served as the guardian for over 1,000 years, I slew the most powerful of all demons before your great, great, great, great grandparents were even born. Not to mention the fact that she would have had so much better and more interesting conversation especially with Medivh and Sargeras. Not to mention who wouldn't want to see a 1 v 1 between Medivh and Aegwynn. (Granted Aegwynn would obviously win.) If you had to change Khadgars entire story why did he have to be at the exact same place at the exact same time only with no reason to be there?

    2. Remove Alodi and Dalaran. Seriously why is that scene even in here, sure for fans it's like a little fun thing but for everyone else it's just confusing as shit. And even though it's a little fan service what purpose does it serve. First of all assuming that Alodi has to stay in the story he could materialize in Karazhan, what was the purpose of having to go to Dalaran then for Alodi to converse a message, is he illiterate? And one more thing why is Alodi a woman, if they needed an old, wise female figure why not pick Aegwynn?

    3. Remove Garona as a love interest. Seriously why does she has to be a love interest simply because she's the only single woman, how horny is she and human males? Think about it what did Garona actually contribute to the story other than being a love interest? She translated between the orcs and the humans which was an alliance that inevitably fell apart anyhow so nothing there. On the orc side of the story she assassinated king Llane so Blackhand wouldn't get the honor, but Blackhand died in Mak'gora 5 minutes later anyhow so that didn't matter, the only difference she actually had was towards the end where she kept Gul'Dan from slaying Lothar which was really nice to see but apart from that one scene the only role she actually seemed to play was as a love interest. It's so sad to see such a great character becoming less than what she actually is simply because there has to be a love story.

    As I said I think this film is great but some elements seemed to just be forced in which is really tragic.
     
  5. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    So is this the official discussion thread for the movie? We really need to decide on one, since we have like 3 ongoing discussions about it right now; one in news, one in general warcraft corner and one here.

    Anyway, the movie is out for 1 week now, so I'd like to share my review.


    ------------------

    Spoiler-free
    Overall the movie was alright. It certainly didn't blow my mind, but it wasn't bad either. The CGI was actually pretty well done and the orcs looked brutish and convincing enough for me. Ironicly enough: the CGI orcs actually looked much more real that some of the armors worn by the humans - and those weren't even CGI!

    Let's start with the elephant in the room, though:
    The pacing. Warcraft suffers from the attempt to press one entire game and three books into just a single 2-hour movie. Everything felt really rushed and the viewer barely had a chance to get to know these characters. The only two characters that felt a bit more fleshed-out were Khadgar and Durotan.
    Other than that, the movie had some random-ass scenes that just didn't do anything for the plot, yet wasted precious time they could have invested to flesh out the main characters more.

    The movie could have used some cuts from the source material here and there. There was just too much going on for the sake of continuity that wasn't needed to deliver the story.
    I know that this was made by a fan of the Warcraft universe, but in doing so, the makers sacrificed the possibility to introduce new people to the franchise...

    I was there with a friend of mine and she was like "Huh? What the hell is going on?" the entire movie. This movie is absolutely not recommended for people that don't know Warcraft. This is for fans only, because many important things happening on screen do not get explained properly.

    These are basicly my major gripes. Let's get to the good points now:
    Some nerd-gags are spot-on. I almost laughed my ass off at a certain ... spell ... that Khadgar used in one of the scenes. You'll know what I mean when you see it. ;)
    The CGI is great. Actually better than in most DC or marvel movies.
    I'm not a fan of loads of CGI, but in this case it's acceptable, since there is hardly a way they could have pulled this off with just practical effects alone.
    The orcs just looked fantastic.
    I loved how they tried to stick super close to the source material on many of the locations. For example, the front of Stormwind with the iconic Griphon landing spot or Duskwood and Ironforge.
    I also liked the actors they selected. They gave it their best to make even the most Mary-sueish characters (that's blizzard writing in the first games for you) at least a bit interesting. Garona delivered a decent performance (except for some plot issues I will discuss below) and the Durotan performance was really convincing aswell.

    So, my final verdict? I'd say this is a solid 7/10. Blizzard and Universal get a pass from me for making a sequel. I definitely want to see a part II and part III covering the second and third game.
    Is it a breathtaking masterpiece? No. But then again, nobody expected that. You can tell that the plot suffers a lot from trying to please the franchise nerds, making the movie inaccessable for outsiders.

    But let's go into the details, shall we?
    Spoilers!
    Murlocs! It was so iconic and cringeworthy at the same time that I just couldn't stop laughing when I heard the Wrglglglgl!
    But what exactly was the point of the Ironforge scene other than trying to please the nerds? It wasted perfectly good 3 minutes that they could have spend on building up other core elements in the story or ... explain things. Everyone would have been fine with the Stormwind army using guns. It's fantasy for christ's sake.
    It was cool to see Ironforge, I admit that. But with all the other flaws in the story, it was just wasted potential.
    The Garona plot suffered from the WoW retcons. She didn't mention a human heritage in her dialogue, but it was sure as hell implied in the movie, which wouldn't make sense, even if she didn't know the truth. And the love-plot with Lothar felt super rushed and forced. It wasn't even needed for the story. A friendship would have sufficed to flesh out her motives?

    And what the hell was that council thing? Was that supposed to show me why the dwarves and elves didn't support Stormwind on the war against the horde? If so, they actually achieved the opposite: they literally put a spotlight on one of the biggest logical flaws in the story instead of just trying to hide it under the carpet.

    And then there was ... polymorph. I wasted an entire mouth full of coke in that moment... to the regrets of the guy sitting in front of me. It was glorious. At least if they do a movie for the nerds, they gotta do it right. ;)

    What was that Medivh transformation? He looked like a demonhunter? Is that a WoW-retcon? It was super weird and even I couldn't explain it to my friend, and I played all the games. >_>

    ... and that black stone thingy with the old woman inside ... was that supposed to be Nozdormu? I didn't know what the heck was going on and what's more: I didn't understand why that was neccesary. Why include that and waste time that could be used on the characters?

    That's all for now. More to come. :)
     
  6. Razosh

    Razosh

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    When I made this thread there was no other place to discuss spoilers openly so that's why I made this and the reason for that is because the film had not yet been released in the U.S. Also if you had actually bothered to read any comment above yours you would realize that there's no need for a spoiler free version. I can't really answer for what threads have been created after mine though I didn't find any in the WarCraft forum thread or the general discussion before posting this.

    Read my posts and you'll know it's Alodi.
     
  7. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Wow, sorry for posting a review in your thread without obeying to your rules and signing a two-page contract before.

    Also, I apologize for not being as franchise savvy to instantly recognize a character immediately! Oh and that post of yours? I read it and didn't make the connection to that scene. Sorry for being a total scrub and not understanding what scene you were referring to there.


    ...
    Seriously, I'm out. The tone here is way too hostile for me.
     
  8. Razosh

    Razosh

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    Actually I am very happy that you posted your review I just stated that there's no need for a non-spoiler version as people who are looking for that sort of review are not going to come to this page. Sorry if I sent the wrong message I did not mean to be rude.
     
  9. WhiteFang

    WhiteFang

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    I have no idea what that was either
     
  10. A Void

    A Void

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    It was Sargeras's metamorphosis.
     
  11. WhiteFang

    WhiteFang

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    I thought of Sargeras when I saw it though,dunno why
     
  12. Razosh

    Razosh

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    Medivh's mother Aegwynn fought the avatar of Sargeras about 1,000 years prior to Medivh's birth and won. Sargeras however had one final trick up his sleeve and injected his soul into Aegwynn without her knowledge. Sargeras never used this against Aegwynn but when Medivh was born Sargeras soul past on into him. When Gul'Dan decided to open the dark portal Sargeras knew that his time had come and took control over Medivh and used him to help Gul'Dan open the Dark Portal from the other side.
     
  13. Edhel-dur

    Edhel-dur

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    I just didn't like that the Orcs had green eyes instead of red. Otherwise the movie was pretty nice, and I didn't give any thought about lore or story as... it's just an adaptation. I'm sad to not see Medivh use Blizzard on the Orc army. Instead using some lightning wall. All in all not a good movie, but a nice one.