Space Engineers

[masterofra]

Color Codes are necessary, because there are several characters such as 1 I and l that look identical in wc3. There are others, but those are the main ones. I think it is frustrating that you cannot save some ships, because you cannot get the correct code out of the screen-shot due to this.

 

[Tleno]

Hmmm... I think I've just figured out how should the basic minmal spaceship should lookm bad thing I lost my code somewhere... okay, so anyway it looks like a cross, it would be like 5 vertical blocks and there are one block from left and one from right of the middle block. Middle block is a cockpit, front one is any kind of weapon, best if laser. Those left and right blocks have ion engines and all those blocks which were not used are generators or you can use one of them as stabilizers, still make sure you have at least 2 generators. This one is useful becauce its cheap, simple, doesn't have any ammo/fuel problems becauce its completely energy-powered and has acurate weapons plus only two engines and can move left/right and in front.

 

[masterofra]

Glitch
-I havent looked into this alot, but it looks like if a ship piece is touching the edge of the area, it is considered attached to the ship, also, ship thinggys that point off of the area, are considered pointing into the ship.

AFter a little bit more testing, it seems that the tile at the bottom, one from the left, if it points down, it fails.

 

[M0RT]

Both of your ships were added and named after you.

Glitch: this shouldn't happen anymore, I fixed it couple versions ago. Could you send a screenshot of such situation?

 

[masterofra]

Sometimes, My engines get stuck on. As in i releace the button, and they do not turn off. Also, they do not turn off if i hit the correct button, and then release it. I think it occurs when a key is down, then goes up, but is not detected going up.

 

[M0RT]

The game won't detect key up/down while using chat, or being in game menu. So if you press arrow, enter and release arrow, the engines will get stuck with one release, which will cancel out your next key press.
I will have to create another hotkey, which will always be bound to "reset all devices to 0", to cancel out any stuck hotkeys (I will propably fill the last line of abilities, so far it is this reset button, then self-destruct button, which will also be useful in some situations)

About the bulding area glitch: also, if you had device pointing down and tile at the topmost position of column next to right, it will be counted as pointing into ship. I will fix these test right away.

 

[Tleno]

Oh, I was just playing a little with the ship design and only now I realised how awersome this game is - you can create such awesome and tactically unique ship... like I've managed to create a spaceship with 5 red lasers on front but problematic with stabilization and speed... but then I added a few more thrusters to one of sides and lots of generators, and so it came out like this - you fly somewhere with this things, then start turning around at max speed with lasers on and because of lack of stabilization it can spin like this forever, just sometimes stoping shooting to recharge... this gives a feel that your spaceship is like one of those huge boses from old sidescroller games... pretty awesome... h, maybe you should also make a mode that would give 100 or more upkeep? Building giant ubercruisers is awesome and fun to play with friends, plus then you can create pretty crazy designs that look great and its fun to battle with these...

 

[masterofra]

In 80 point mode with more than 3 players, the game starts lagging like XDI. This may be because of the leaks that slow down game play after a while tho.

I think that you should make it so that there is a limit of 30 tiles regardless of mode. though they still use points. That way, you can have high point modes, that let you have high point modules, but not allow huge laggy ships. (Assuming that is what causes it)

Oh, and can you use my idea for arcade mode?
Arcade mode does not seem to work. I tested it. Friction seems to be so low that if i accelerate strait ahead so that the yellow ping is almost at the edge, then turn the engines off. I cannot see any reduction of speed at all. I also cannot see any reduction in fuel usage either.

Assuming you use ticks of 0.05 seconds each, (modify the duration as you need to) Here is the amount you need to reduce the velocity per tick. Calculate this beforehand.
70% friction per second -- 0.7 - F - this means that 70% of the previous second's velocity would be left after a second.
0.05 tick delay -- 0.05 - TICK

velocity per second multiplier would be (F ^ TICK) which is about 0.98

 

[M0RT]

Thanks tleno I, too, think it would be more fun with larger ships, that won't fall apart after one lucky hit, but as said, the leaks make the game unplayable. However, I think it would be better to fix those leaks than introduce some limits The game does work with 12 ships at one time in the beginning, so it should be possible to get it to work all the time.

Arcade: going to test now..

 

[Tleno]

Hmmm.... do you have an idea what could cause the leaks?

 

[M0RT]

If I had an idea, it would be fixed by now
But I know whats the problem with Arcade, it only runs in game-mode, not in test-mode. Right now the speed reduction is 33% per second, which is basically the same value as you suggested (and <100% rotation speed reduction)

 

[Tleno]

Oh, also maybe you should add some kinda like target-practice targets to test mode? What, I'm just saying...
Also, I doubt about stabilizers a little - they don't seem to be worth one slot to use, maybe you should increase their efficiency a little bit?

 

[masterofra]

Stabilizers are to stop rotation, but it says in the tool tip that you use engines to stop most of it. I usually use one magnetic stabilizer, so that i can fly strait.

Can you make it so that modes all apply to test mode too, (not planet, but arcade, edge effects, and otherwise)

 

[M0RT]

Ofc I could, but it would actually require to create some new system that will allow modes to run on game init. There shouldn't be ant problem with that, it will just take some time to do. But it is indeed stupid that you have to test the game with different physics than you play with.

 

[masterofra]

Ok, i just tested arcade mode in game, solo

It works, However, with ion engines, the terminal velocity is like zero
With rocket engines, terminal velocity is slightly higher, and i haven't tested uber rocket engines.

I suggest that you would make it so that you increase thrust in arcade mode by like 4-5X, though keep the fuel reduction, and friction rate.

And as for the system you need, it would simply be you run it after the modes are entered, rather than when the game starts, right? although, you would need to make sure that planet mode for example would not activate immediately, or make ships spawn elsewhere

 

[M0RT]

Yeah, you are right, I just built dreadought with 13 ions engines and it barely moved, I will try some adjustments during tomorrow.
The thing with modes is that I will need to divide the init triggers to 2 for each mode, one for test-mode (physics, map edge) and the other one for game (for example initialization of waypoints or scoreboard). As I said, it is not technically a problem, it will just require to write some code, which will take some time.

EDIT: map development will halt a moment, I have currently some problems with my computer crashing all the time, I suspect it happens when my graphic card switches to 3D

EDIT 2: I was right, it was the graphic card. However, I pluged in my old Radeon 9600, which works perfectly (in warcraft, i still got 60 FPS) Unfortunatelly I was so far unable to find out what causes the lags.

 

[masterofra]

About keys getting stuck down according to game. It occurs like you said. however, when you hit the key again, and release it. it does not go off. Also, if you use any other key that would modify that engine, it would also fail, though other engines turned on and off fine

 

[M0RT]

Yeah the problem here is that the power goes from 0-1, but you can modify it to any value (If you hit [+] arrow twice, without releasing it, it will set the power to 2. Then, one release gets it back to 1, which is however still "on") It is NOT a bug, it is intentional, consider this:
You have four engines, two of them (rear) are bound on UP key ([+] on press and [-] on release - standart). Two of them (one front and one rear) are bound on LEFT key(standart).
Now you are holding UP key and want to turn left, so you press LEFT. The engine bound on both will be 1 while holding UP key, 2 while holding both and 1 when you release one of them, which is correct. However, if the power was limited to 0-1 at all times, it would be 1 on UP key pressed, then 1 while both key pressed, and 0 when you released one of them, which would actually lead to strange behavior.

 

[masterofra]

AH, Ok, That make sense, However, Can you make A method that will fix them being stuck on when the game does not detect the key releaced? Can the value go negitive? if not, then add an ability that sets all the values of all of them to 0

 

[M0RT]

Oh, I see the problem, I already mentioned this in the post that got deleted because my computer crashed while writing it: I will add two special abilities (2 for now, maybe more later), one to reset all devices to 0 and the other for self-destruct. I already got icons for them, so now only the coding

 

[masterofra]

OK, to fix the key release detect fail, What you need to do is for all arrow keys for all players, (4 * 12) store a boolean that says whether or not it is down. when you detect a key hit/release, change the boolean. In the case the boolean says the key is down when you get the event key pressed or otherwise, Run the function that happens when you release the key, then continue the function

 

[M0RT]

Yeah, that could work, thanks, I am going to try it now. (except that instead of running release on the "double press", I think it is better to just ignore the key press. Also, keys will reset on ship spawn)
EDIT: seems to work, thanks again
EDIT 2: I found possible source of performance decrease, I moved asteroids (shot-off tiles are technically counted as asteroids) with standard SetPosition function, instead of SetUnitX/Y. With increasing amount of flying tiles throughtout the game, it would get accordingly laggy.
EDIT 3: New version. Contains the arrow key fix, arcade rebalance, DD score fix, map size adjustment (however now the map bounds are not visible), self-destruct and reset buttons (however self-destruct works instantly now, I don't have any timer system so far), arcade and planet work in test mode, asteroid fix (hopefully will fix the FPS decrease)
EDIT 4: I forgot to credit kola for self-destruct and cancel icons, sorry about that, going to fix it in next version

EDIT 5: known bugs in 3.5: devices can face inside ship (fixed), "hull not intact" after you test ship once(fixed), missiles sometimes dissapear intantly, sometimes do 0 damage(fixed), game crashed when asteroid leaves map(fixed)
Further changes in upcoming 3.6: colored code, camera unlock in construction, laser range decreased

 

[masterofra]

OK, First of all, Nice job, Arcade mode works nicely in test mode now, and it works nicely in general

However, You have a Extremely nasty glitch, in that when you go to play, the game starts lagging VERY badly, and after 3 seconds, it freezes, and you have to use control panel to exit. I was using modes
dreadnought, Space Race, outer space, Arcade, though I also changed outer space to asteroid, and removed arcade, and no difference. I will do more testing, but this glitch is going to make the game unplayable.

other
Thanks for the credits XD

EDIT:

I just tried demolition derby, and it worked fine, so i think that space race mode is malfunctioning.

 

[M0RT]

Wow, that is some powerful glitch, I had no idea (my other betatesters don't want to play sr ). I just realized what it was (in the middle of writing this post ): The new map size limit. The first waypoint is outside the map area (especially in SP, you have like 90% chance of that happening), and you keep dying(for leaving map) and respawning there.

 

[masterofra]

Ouch, Makes sense.
Space race mode is interesting, but hard to play unless in arcade mode XD

GAH stupid lag(double posted)

Edit:
I have a really cool uber laser satellite, but the code is not able to be saved, because when i try to use the code, it phails.

 

[M0RT]

It fails when you try to load the code? If it is the case, pls send screenshots (or some description) of the original and broken version, so I can look where the problem is.

Further updates, coming soon: fixed space race, laser leak, and coil/plasma guns now charge up before they stop consuming energy, so that they can fire immidiatelly after being turned on.

 

[masterofra]

It fails when you try to load the code? If it is the case, pls send screenshots (or some description) of the original and broken version, so I can look where the problem is.

Further updates, coming soon: fixed space race, laser leak, and coil/plasma guns now charge up before they stop consuming energy, so that they can fire immidiatelly after being turned on.

The problem Is that I cannot read the code that it gives me, other codes, like my flag ship work fine, but this one seems to have too many variables that I cannot figure out. That is why I want colored codes

 

[The World Is Flat]

Well i like some of the new changes, they are wonderful. but after alomost exactly 5 mins of play it gave me a fatal error out of the blue. i think is was arcade, outerspace and the new space race one. and i had the smallest size... i think...

 

[M0RT]

Yeah, I mentioned that in "known bugs in 3.5" few posts above, it happens when you shoot off part of the ship and it leaves map. (I use SetUnitX/Y to move it outside playable map area and it crashes the game). It is fixed in 3.6, which I am releasing as soon as I protect it. Here is the changelog:

3.6 Changelog

- device facing test fixed
- laser range set to 600
- colored code
- camera unlock in construction (ESC in hull phase)
- missile lifespan and hit fix
- hull intact test fix
- fixed space race
- fixed laser leak
- plasma/coil guns charge up before turning off
- fixed crash when asteroids leave map

 

[masterofra]

Add to list of Known Bugs in 3.6

Hull not intact glitch still exists, If you test, then go back to hull allocate mode, it occurs.

For players other than red, In some cases, loading will result in loading on the edge, with some parts wrapping to the top.

Lagg for some players is intense after some time of playing

 

[The World Is Flat]

Nothing was shot off though. i think i might have lost fuel or somthing...

 

[M0RT]

Masterofra:
Ok, I think I finally found the bug that caused hull intact test to fail, so in next version it will propably be fully fixed.
"In some cases" means that it ocurs randomly, or some specific codes? EDIT: Apparently it happens all the time for non-red players (atleast it did for preconstructs)
The World Is Flat: Has is only happened once? And how many waypoints did you finish? I am afraid that it may be caused by SR, there is a limit in how close the waypoints can be together, and if it hits the center of the map, there is no point where it could be placed and results in infinite loop. Will chech that.

Thanks for reports

 

[masterofra]

I have two inconveniences that i would request fixed

The center of mass rune thingy, Please locust it. I cannot tell you how many times I have accidentally selected it, it wastes time, though it is useful.

tiles/modules not relevant to the phase. If not Locusted, at least make it so that when one is selected, it deselects, and select the corresponding object that you were trying to select (phase 2, tile -> modules; Phase 3, tiles and modules -> ?)

Oh, and in test mode, what does the 60 mean? If nothing, maybe it could show the point cost used for the player's current ship, or the phase they are in for building


Edit:
Nice job with the color codes, if only I could remember how to make that ship again XD
What does the dark green arrow in space race mode mean? If you go there, it does nothing. Does it point to a random waypoint? or the respawn point? or what?

 

[M0RT]

Well there is a problem with locust, it somehow disappears when the unit is shown(via hide/show unit) and I think it cannot be reapplied. I will do some research here.

The "60" should be countdown, that launches when most of the players are marked as ready, so that players won't be able to block the game. It will work after I finally add some timer system.

EDIT: Just figured it out, I just remove the "broken" locust and immidiatelly reapply it, works.
EDIT2: There is another problem with devices, the locust cannot be properly removed ever, if I try, the unit can no longer be selected by clicking, only by drag-boxing. That kinda complicates things

 

[masterofra]

When you want to remove locust, you remove it, then you hide the unit, then you show it.

If you want to add locust to a unit that you have just shown, or otherwise, you remove the ability before hiding it, then add it back when you unhide it.

Edit:
I am not positive this works, as I haven't done much testing, but I think it works

Oh yea, and similarly to the locust being removed, Do you think that hiding then unhiding an object may result in the coloring being lost? if so, then that may be why your objects lose their color. Also, how did you color the ship itself?

Are you still working on Runeforce?

 

[M0RT]

Removing locust: I did experiments with this, suprising it doesn't matter whether you first hide the unit then remove or first remove locust and then hide, or don't remove locust at all, it has the same effect every time: unit loses clickability and health bar. I just read ability guide, they say to chaos it to something else, will try that.

Adding locust: Same as above, doesn't matter whether the unit is hidden/remove locust or the other way.

 

[The World Is Flat]

umm 2-3 checkpoints. 2 ppl on lan.

 

[M0RT]

The World Is Flat: And you are sure nobody shot off anything? That was the only known source of crashes so far, I seriously hope there is not a new one.

Masterofra: No, the coloring is lost because I manually remove it I use SetUnitVertexColor to make it transparent, however it won't let me change only alpha. So the only way I could restore the unit's original vertex coloring would be to input all values in a hastable and then load it in the script. Since there propably is no other way, I will do this one day, but so far it seems like a lot of work for a very small effect.

The ship itself is colored by the same function, however for some reason only the first set of special effects (they are attached) is colored, so I actually need to reset colors to 255/255/255 when the ship is despawned and then set it to respective values when it is spawned again (until I figured this out, the ships very only colored the on the first spawn)

I still consider Runeforce as my "main" project, however thanks to miserable coding (it was my first proper wc3 map and I didn't know JASS back then) it is hard to resume work, but I didn't give the project up yet. When there is more time...

 

[masterofra]

Yea, I know what you mean, I started with jass(I had done minor before, and had just gotten newgen) when Cohadar released Archmage survival's Code to the public. It was one of the interesting games I had seen for a while, and I wondered how it worked. When it was released, I looked at it, and started experimenting. It was a fun map, but it had a few flaws, which I managed to fix a few, added a lot of crap, and otherwise. Originally, My coding style was similar to Cohadar's , because That was the first major map i worked on. But Now, My coding style is much different, and it just is impossible to continue, since i would almost have to relearn how it works again. Anyway, I just wanted to get that out.

 

[M0RT]

All right, since locust corrupts units permanently I just created the selection redirector, which is a little worse, but better than nothing.
EDIT: also fixed the loading issue for non-red players, I didn't offset one variable there...

 

[The World Is Flat]

umm well, I didn't have anything shot off. one of the other players MIGHT, but i don't know... I don't think so...

Speaking of other games i have 2 questions:

S][C ???

Are you ever going to go back to working on DL?

 

[M0RT]

Well I certainly don't wish there was another crash bug, so If anyone encounters crash please find out (if possible) what were other players doing at the time.

S][C ? I don't get it...
Dungeon Lords: I certainly want to, it is the most perspective of my maps (since it is easy enough for "casual" players )

 

[Tleno]

He means Starcraft 2...
Well I recommend you not to work on more than 2 maps at the same time, or else you'll end up like me not knowing what to do new and abandoning your projects...

 

[The World Is Flat]

Starcraft 2 + Starcraft 2 Logo = S][C

are you going to make SC2 maps?

Dungeon lords: Great, its one of my favorites of your games. (maybe because i'm a casual player?)


Bug:

It happened again. i went around the (3rd) checkpoint. (same everything, even ship, even players...) and it gave me a fatal error. no damage. nothing. we purpousely did not fire to test the bug.

 

[M0RT]

Bug: Ok thanks, I will test it right now.
S][C:I don't think I could run it on my computer in the first place I would certainly make them, but it depends on whether I get an idea for a map. On the other hand, I maybe should complete some of my maps finally.
DL: I like playing it too, the thing is that it is the least inventive of my maps (compared to Runeforce and SE)

Tleno: So far, statistically it looks like I get an idea for a map once in 9 months, which gives me limited time to finish my maps I hope I won't get another stupid idea and finally complete my projects.

 

[The World Is Flat]

The problem is that your ideas are not stupid.
any way apparently SC2 has low-ish requirements.
DL: it has a lot of similarities, but it is alot different than DK. and if you make enough changes etc. it could be very unique and fun.

Bug: funny thing, we tried it again 2 times. 1st time no bug. 2nd time the bug happened at checkpoint 4. so i'm missing somthing...

 

[masterofra]

One thing I noticed recently, Was that something at 45 degree angle would be considered to be pointing up, rather than pointing either up or left depending on what would work. You have to use a lesser angle.

 

[M0RT]

stupid ideas: thx What I meant by "stupid" is that they will force me to stop everything and start doing something new, so it prevents me from working on my previous projects (however I am starting university next year, so I'll have more time to work on my projects, hopefully finally bringing back DL and runeforce)
No idea on the bug so far
45 degreens: if you set weapon on 45 degrees, it would hit any of the adjacent tiles (tested, even with ~40 degrees you shoot yourself)

And finally version 3.7 is out.

changelog

- hull intact bug finally fixed
- selection redirect
- loading fixed
- asteroid collision. Use -ph for physics test menu

 

[Tleno]

Forgot to say you should add some kind of information about those commmands in ingame too... you know, just like credits or changelog, so and commands...

 

[M0RT]

Well I could do that, but since they are only for test, I didn't feel it was so important right now. Also, since I forgot to test whether you are in singeplayer, they are abusable in MP right now (However since asteroids have 0 game effect, it won't be such an abuse)