Space Engineers

[The World Is Flat]

Yes, agreeed... i like the turrets because they look like they have the right sized bases.

 

[M0RT]

Are you trying to say I should finally implement turrets?
Well they look pretty good, I will propably use them.
Btw. new version out, the missile hit ships properly (I hope), also the ship point cost system works now, you also need to select game mode at the beginning.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Great i just cant wait for my computer to return!

 

[masterofra]

Here is an idea, for making modules rotate correctly, What you do is when you tell the module to rotate, make a timer that calls ShowUnit after however long it takes for the modules to rotate 180 degrees.

 

[M0RT]

Yeah, that seems to be the only way to fix it, I would have done it sooner, but since it's more of a cosmetic feature, it always had lower priority. I am now working on radar, that is a totally necessary feature.

 

[warman45]

because there's NO WAY you could simply look out the WINDOW into the UNOBSTRUCTED VACUME of space and point you're guns at the enemy ships LIGHTS.

 

[masterofra]

because there's NO WAY you could simply look out the WINDOW into the UNOBSTRUCTED VACUME of space and point you're guns at the enemy ships LIGHTS.

What?

Anyway, i think that you should make it so that no units at all appear on the minimap, And somehow make the radar use instead.

 

[warman45]

i was sarcastically questioning the necesseity of radar compared to auto turrets.

after all you need guns too shoot (and have fun) but either they would have radar built in or you could simply "point and click" there wouldn't be too much need for an external radar unit (probably shoulda quoted him)

 

[M0RT]

Hmm, so far I know, today's atmosphere pilots don't lauch rockets or throw bombs "where they feel like it", but you use some navigation system. And if you see a small light in space, it could be many things but space ship (you would have to use some binoculars, which, in sci-fi, is ridiculous).
Also, from game mechanics, the screen size is limited, you can't all ships there, and minimap is also useless, since your keep turning around. The main use of radar would be long-distance navigation (if you are playing a 2-player game right now, you have to agree where to meet so you have ever chance of finding each other). I have thought of 2 ways of showing radar, one with minimap (I have already done this in other maps, it's pretty simple) and the other one with a unit-based system (you would see arrows, in a fixed distance from ship, pointing to other ships and somehow indicating distance)

 

[Luffy]

it does seem awesome. I will be waiting this

 

[The World Is Flat]

Ok, I just had an idea. its a gun on your ship tht fires a targeting beacon, and when you fire missiles assigned to the targeting beacon, that are homing, they will fly to it and explode. and if you hit an enemy ship, it 'sticks' to it and your missiles home on the enemy ship? of course the beacon wares out, and there could be like EMP fields.

And also M0RT:

Plasma Cutter

 

[Tleno]

Hmm, so far I know, today's atmosphere pilots don't lauch rockets or throw bombs "where they feel like it", but you use some navigation system. And if you see a small light in space, it could be many things but space ship (you would have to use some binoculars, which, in sci-fi, is ridiculous).
Also, from game mechanics, the screen size is limited, you can't all ships there, and minimap is also useless, since your keep turning around. The main use of radar would be long-distance navigation (if you are playing a 2-player game right now, you have to agree where to meet so you have ever chance of finding each other). I have thought of 2 ways of showing radar, one with minimap (I have already done this in other maps, it's pretty simple) and the other one with a unit-based system (you would see arrows, in a fixed distance from ship, pointing to other ships and somehow indicating distance)

And what about flying out of borders?

 

[M0RT]

Targeting beacon would be possible, as another missile type.
I know about plasma cutter, but I don't think it could be used as a long-range weapon (thinking about it know, plasma in general could not be used). Maybe I will use plasma cutters as the "impact" weapon.
Flying out of borders: this is going to be handled differently, depending on map that you play (it won't work for planet for example, as it makes no sence leaving the orbit from one side and appearing on another. You'll die when you leave the playing area here) For other maps, like outer space, the borders will transport you to the other side of the map (but ofc I am going to do this properly, that means the border area will be displayed even on the other side of map (ideally when you cross the border, there should be no way player could find it out).

Also, anyone knows how to get rid of the white square on map, that indicates currently displayed area?

 

[M0RT]

Beta is here! (I understand "beta" as "playable version") It now contains one working game mode (demolition derby), with nice scoreboard, respawns, and so on.. Also radar, it's not yet a device (maybe I'll keep it this way)

 

[Tleno]

Hmmm... great... have you found and fixed any bugs? Sometimes it messes up you ship while building its hull... and make a little more funds to build a ship, now its not enough...

 

[The World Is Flat]

Cool i'll test it now!

 

[lilfatjoey]

Game looks great so far (judging from first post)

 

[The World Is Flat]

Plaid and tested a coupla days ago, its very fun and there are very few, if any, bugs. but i find that the frame rat is still pretty low, and controlling the ship is hard.

 

[M0RT]

Did you measure the frame rate with /fps, or you "saw" it? The low /fps rate means there is a problem in warcraft engine (the previous version had low fps, because wacraft can't handle moving high amounts of units), but now I use special effects, which have same model as units, but the game can handle them much faster. The low "visible" fps is caused by low amount of calculations (for example asteroids and missiles move only every 0.1 second, which is low (ships move every 0.06 though, they should be fine))

 

[The World Is Flat]

I ''Saw'' It just seemed a little jerky, and i have an extremely powerful alienware laptop so i'm shure it must be the war3 engine. i'm not quite shure what i am doing, but i think its was when i was flying.

 

[M0RT]

New version out, unfortunatelly not much new, I started work on the "planet orbit" mod, but the gravity isn't working fine yet.

I just added "space race" mode, where you fly around checkpoints in given order. Scripts are done, will be released in next version. Also I plan to add lasers soon (working on them right now) (I need to figure out how to effectively calculate them)

Is someone still watching this thread?

 

[WanderingPeanut]

Hey M0RT, I've played the map single player (yet to do multiplayer) and I've had lots of fun just making a ship without even shooting anyone . Eagerly waiting the completed devices, weapons and modes etc... Im really impressed by the UI thing for button bindings, especially as it allows me to fire all guns at once easily ^^.

I think the radar info could be enlarged slightly (its kinda hard to tell distance) and maybe some description of the game types as a game message at the start (or loading screen for that matter). Also I was thinking you could add Solar Panels that would only be deployed and generate energy when not accelerating/decelerating because their weak (I know this wouldn't make sense in deep space but it wouldn't be too much of a realism sacrifice).

Good to know someones still watching the thread eh?

*EDIT* I agree it would be best to keep radar not a
device, or at least allow to be part of an upgraded bridge (could have some abilities available from an upgraded bridge).

 

[The World Is Flat]

Still watching the tread, i'm going to test and get back to you.

Edit-

Ok, i just thought of another random module. The ARMOR module. makes tiles that attach to it and itself harder to move. Also, an option you can set that deactivates selection and activation of a device, once you let go of the hotkeys. right now its WAAAAAY to tedious. and really hard to control.

also try somthing like Automatically firing reverse 'Stableizers' or somthing. to automatically slow you down. or somthing, just make the controls easier to use.

 

[M0RT]

Yeah I believe you guys are still watching, but there isn't much going on here

Deployable panels: interesting idea, I will certainly do some deploayable device system (for crane, which should be used in some scenarios), so maybe i'll add some other deployable devices, like this panels.

Radar: it's propably going to stay like this, but maybe I'll add some device that provides serious upgrades to it.

Armor module: I didn't really get what you meant, was it that the tile would essentialy be heavier?

Option: Also not sure what you mean, but whatever you said about hotkey phase being tedious, you were right

Stabilizers: you mean some function that would fire such engines, that would stop you from rotating?

 

[The World Is Flat]

Armor would be heavier, but would also be harder to damage or seperate from other tiles.

My idea is that if you press a hotkey, it activates the engine. when you release it de-activates the engine. stopping all thrust. It could be an option yo uset like +Cntrl2 or somthing.

Stabilizers: yes. or that would automatically slow you to a stop if you wantd an easier to control 'Arcade' style movments.

Also i just though about Cargo hulls. Heres an idea: You can only have one cargo bay. but it is multiple spaces large. this cargo bay is where you keep things like ammo, ore, fuel and misc. cargo. You can only put such devices in the cargo hold. I had some other ideas about this but i need to refine them. I Also thing you should replace the Plasma Gun with Mass-Drivers or railguns.

 

[M0RT]

The develepment is still on, I just had a week pause. Lasers are almost complete (see screenshot), i just need to test the collsion algorithm.

@The World Is Flat:
1) I don't think that is possible for any other keys than arrow keys (which already have this possibility)
2) Stabilizers: could be done, but propably as some extra device
3) Cargo hull: If I understand that correctly, that would just limit the distribution of tanks/batteries/.... on the ship.
4) I already put that on "to do" list

EDIT: I actually attached the screenshot of the laser

 

[The World Is Flat]

Great, and btw, i want really fully thought out with the cargo hull.... so nvm about it. my reccomendation, MAKE FLYING SIMPLER.

 

[M0RT]

MAKE FLYING SIMPLER.

Well its "reallistic" how it is right now, but I will add "arcade" mode in the next patch, to test how the game would look like if the flying was a bit simpler.

Besides that, I have bad news, I still can't figure whats wrong in my laser collision algorithm, have been working on that the whole day, it will take some more time to release 3.2

 

[The World Is Flat]

Ok good. about the arcade..

and about the lasors..

 

[HaPpY sAdIsT]

Having a background in physics, there is a way to enable FTL (Faster than Light) Travel. In physics, the higgs boson is theoretically responsible for granting a particle mass. My concept in relation to your game is this:

Have an anti-higgs field that takes say 5 seconds to charge, but gives the ship an instant, insanely fast boost in whatever direction it was going.

If you want to you can do this in an AOE around the ship.

While this may be good, the problem the player will then encounter is stopping.

Here is where the Higgs-magnification field comes in. It, in a science fiction sense increases the density of higgs bosons in an area around the ship causing all units to move extremely slowly.

 

[M0RT]

Are you physicist, or do you just watch sci-fi ? (If I understand this correctly, anti-higgs field would render all particles of the ship massless(or weightless?), therefore allowing them to travel at light speed, but they still couldn't be faster than light, could they?)

And to your idea: I am not sure whether FTL would be any improvement for the game as it is, you usually travel at very short distances. However it could be used as some sort of evasive maneuver. Will think about it...

Btw I am gone for the weekend, but I hope to finish 3.2 (lasers, space race mod and arcade mod) as soon as possible in the next week.

 

[cookies4you]

this map is epic indeed. i have a suggestion though.

Make the last text disappear after "Re"binding a button. Its annoying with the A"D"f"A"W text in my way

 

[HaPpY sAdIsT]

M0rt,
The first, physisist.

What prevents all particles from travelling faster than the speed of light, theoretically is the higgs field, depending on the magnitude of the interaction with the higgs field depends on the mass of the object. This is why Photons and Neutrinos can both travel at the speed of light. In fact during a 1995 supernova, the Neutrino's were detected five minutes before the photons reached the earth.

The intention of this is that it allows a fast boost across the map, but at a high risk in relation to objects. For example it would be suicide to use this in maps with asteroids unless you knew of a clear pathway.

 

[M0RT]

Allright, lasers are almost done (unclean solution though, I am hoping to fix the cleaner one), I just need to fix last small issue (the effect is displayed wrong sometimes) and add the arcade mode for 3.2.

cookies4you: I don't know what you mean by "rebinding" device, you can have the device bound to several hotkeys, not just one. You clear the bindings with ESC.

Happy sadist: Allright, the game benefit would be acceptable, I put it on "to do" list. I am still not sure how it is supposed to work, I thought that the speed of light was an absolute limit, as the information cannot spread faster. (I just read "Brief history of time", so my informations are limited We are however learning relativity at school right now, so I might catch on ) I am going to read something on higgs bosons....

EDIT: beta released, lasers hopefully work, also I added arcade mode( "ac" ).

 

[WanderingPeanut]

M0RT, I tried to play Space Engineers on battle.net recently, and I noticed a few problems. After a while in construction / testing your camera will not work in test mode, I suggest a camera reset command. Also you still have to wait for players who have left during construction, so you cant do anything if someone leaves.
Also would it be possible to add 4 direction buttons for engines/weapons just north east south etc... as these are the most commonly used directions.

 

[M0RT]

Yeah, the multiplayer tests are a bit underestimated... And yes, I will add direction buttons, setting each engine to directly 180 degrees is really annoying.

And what about lasers and arcade mode?

 

[HaPpY sAdIsT]

This is different to relativity.

Firstly there are two types of Relativity: Special and General.

Special Relativity is a theory of Gravity, whereas General Relativity is the unification of Special Relativity and a few other loose ends from the time (Black Body Radiation and a few Electromagnetic theories). The Higgs Boson comes in under the Standard Model, which although in a high school sense describes Protons, Electrons and Neutrons, it also includes Quarks, Neutrinos Muons Taus and their antiparticles, and Bosons, or Force Bearing particles such as Photons, Gluons W+, W- and Z Bosons. All of the above named particles have been found (With a few more to boot) but the Graviton and Higgs Boson are still yet to be found.

Anyway, nice game, it looks good and is well made.

 

[WanderingPeanut]

Hey M0RT, I've played your game on battle.net, and have noticed a few problems. After a while of construction, your camera stops working in test mode, I'm not quite sure what's wrong, but it seems your camera just zooms into the construction part of the map without locking to the spaceship, (Ill attach a screenshot soon).
Also you still have to wait for players who have left during construction, as many do because their puny brains cannot comprehend the game . And of course this means that the game cannot start if players have left in construction.

 

[M0RT]

I am sorry, I have very little time to work on my maps recently, I am doing final exams this year, so my free time is limited.
However, I think I almost figured out formulas for ship collision, which would be totally awesome if it works.

EDIT: I am looking for some idea on a battery-like device (=energy storage). So far I thought of anti-matter tanks (use energy to create anti-matter and then anihilate it when you need it back) or electrolytic devices (dissociates sulfuric acid solution to hydrogen and oxygen, and then burns it when the energy is needed). I don't really like any of these two, anyone knows how this could be done differently?

 

[M0RT]

New version up, I fixed laser hit script, ship hit script, added new device (energy storage), some small stuff and preset ship system.
You can now access preconstructed ships through -use command (usage is simillar to -load, except instead of code you enter model ID). SO far there are 3 models(IDs 0-2), one of which is pretty bad (the Arrow).

So now I am ansking for your help: If you have a good ship design you want to be used as default ship model, send me the code, the ships name and some short description (it doesn't show any description now, but it will), I will gladly add it (and your nick will be displayed upon loading the ship ). I would like to have about 5-8 models for each ship size, so that new players have better choice.

 

[masterofra]

Glitches

-Camera screws up if you switch between testing and editing more than about twice
-Modules seem off-center
-Modules lose direction when being changed
-Modules lose color when you go into test then back into edit
-Modules do not snap to 90 degree increments when within 5 degrees like they used to, bring this back please (45 degree increments tho)


Comments

-Ion engines seem ridiculously weak.
-Can I have a list of modes that work?
-How does arcade mode work? does it add artificial friction?
-Ship Example on front page has no fuel tanks, therefore is a bad example XD
-Thanks for making this Simulation XD

 

[M0RT]

Camera: I am unable to "reproduce" this glitch, I am going to look into it further. EDIT: The problem appears when you return to construction, right?
Off-center: I don't understand what you mean
Lose direction: yes they do, it was actually intentional (so the angles won't have to be initialized somewhen, so they "reinitialize" every time you change device I can fix that)
Color: no idea why, the unit still has it's tinting colors changed, but somehow it only works for the first set of attached effects.
Angle snapping: I just finally added the four abilities for main directions, so the snapping is not coming back (it was pretty bad anyway, you need to set weapons to +-4 degrees to make them all fire at one spot (what I mean is that you put 3 lasers to the front, set them to 356,0 and 4 degrees, and when they all meet, they cut ships in half in seconds )

Ion engines: Well they are supposed to be weak, for they don't consume fuel, only regenerateable energy. They are about 3x less effective than regular engines
Modes: all ship size modes, planet(pl), space race(sr), Destruction derby(dd) and arcade
Arcade: yes, that is exactly what it does. It also massively decreases engine energy/fuel consumption, since you need to have them on all the time.
Ship example: you are right, this ship ingame is already improved I think (the preconstructed ship). I am changing the screenshots soon (I already did that once)

Thanks very much for testing, I almost thought no one was interested anymore.

Also, I am almost done developing next version, changes so far:
- removed "power levels" for devices, they can now be either on or off (no one ever used engines on lower levels anyway)
- added guide (still in work)
- 2nd level laser (red)
- "Set direction" abilities for the four main directions

 

[masterofra]

In another version, when you built your ship, then went to test, then back to build, test, build, test, when you went back to build, the camera was zoomed in on the center tile or something like that.

by offcenter, i mean the unit that represents the module on the tile in most cases is not exactly on the center of the tile.

Glitch
-When using the -tst command to test weapons vs another ship, when you destroy the test ship's bridge, the rest of the pieces just sit there, turn white, and is treated like it doest exist. Also, when you kill a piece of a ship, it doesn't vanish right away, but rather flattens for a second or two first. Also, once you destroy the bridge, the -tst command does not work anymore.
-In a previous version, you could get stuck on the edge of the map, is that fixed?
-tst command epic phails in a multiplayer game,
-Loading cannot be done once you tested your ship once.
-waypoints in race mode don't work

 

[Gallin]

you shouldnt have lazers

 

[masterofra]

you shouldnt have lazers

Wow, that is a wonderful post, Your simple statement tells me exactly what you were thinking, it both says your opinion, and tells me your reasoning too.
(sarcasm)

I find posts like that annoying, because they state an opinion, but give no reasons for it. Example of a good post

----------------------------------------
I think ion engines are PHAIL.
Reasons
-They have almost no thrust, and there are no ship designs that i can think of that allow acceptable acceleration of a ship that use them
-They do use a renewable resource, but barley any of it is used per engine,

Changes that I think would help
- Increase consumption and thrust by (50% - 100%) each
- Add a level two one that scales just like the level two Rocket engine

Questions
- Does anyone have a ship design that uses ion engines and functions well?
----------------------------------------

Other requests
-Can you make it so that the rail guns(I think) that shoot projectiles, when you deactivate them, they keep using energy and keep charging until they can fire, then they turn off?
-Laser effects leak if they are on and the tiles creating them are killed.

 

[M0RT]

Wow, thats a load of bug reports, thanks.
Camera: I certainly didn't do anything to fix it, so it either fixed itself (as a part of another fix), or maybe it happens less often now.
Offcenter: Hopefully fixed now, I hope it won't cause another problems
Lone tiles: That is actually intentional, when you shoot some part off, it flyies away, possibly colliding with some asteroid or ship. However, collision system is not yet included, and weapons don't target them yet (coming soon)
Flattening tiles: Animation problem, couldn't figure out how to remove the animation (or shorten it to like 0.01 sec)
Edge of map: You still can, it's the "default" behaviour of the edge. However, every map mode defines a way how to handle ships that leave map (for example, in outer space, you come back from the other side, and in planet, you get destroyed as you leave). The "stuck" behaviour will still work in test mode, as there are no mods initialized in test mode.
Loading: There were some issues with loading and using ships, fixed now (I accidentally used GUI player indexing, as the load and use triggers are in GUI )
Lasers: After all the time I spent on them, I won't remove them, sorry But they sure need balancing
Ion engines: It is true that they are pretty useless (however, you could for example use them for turning around, as it could help having weak engines there). I will change them to 1/2 of the rocket engine equivalent (they will ofc have multiple levels, as will do almost all devices).
-tst in MP: Stupid mistake, fixed now
Coil guns, plasma guns: It most certainly can be done, I was thinking of some system (I will need to improve current system, if you die while firing lasers, their animation will be stuck there)

 

[masterofra]

For arcade mode, The slow down effect seems to be extremely tiny. I suggest arcade mode works more like this


-Thrust is increased by 200 - 300%, friction robs 25-35% of movement/turning per second. engines use 35-65% of the normal fuel rate.

This means that when you have engines on, you move very fast, however, you will accelerate slower and slower, until you get to terminal velocity. That would be considered max speed. When you turn engines off, you rapidly slow down. The fuel costs would be reduced significantly, because you would need to have engines on all the time when moving.

uses 60 food, no idea what to name it, could be used as a new ship for -use 3 or somthing

k?ibRMNnnaYWwmp)dDz(((aYq

EDIT: I just realized that my arcade mode would have some problems in the planet mode, And I am not sure the best way to make it work with planet mode.

 

[Gallin]

Okay fine I would not use lasers because they wouldn't be in real life. One they would contune on forever and cut everything in its path

Also you should limit the camera limit on the map to just around ur ship so that the minimap is just around the ship

 

[masterofra]

Glitch
-In test mode, when pieces fly off into space from a damaged ship, they hit the edge, and kinda knock back when they hit, but then go back again.
-Near the edge of the map, the camera screws up, and in test mode, if you go near the edge, then go into construct, then back to test, the camera dies, Make the part treated as the edge be like 512 distance farther from the edge
-When people leave the game, you still have to wait for them to start the game.
-Sometimes, ships glitch, and they are still visible, but they are treated as though they do not exist, no collision, no ping on radar.


Request
-In test mode, can you make it so that your ship goes back to the center if you go off the map,
-Add ability to switch to long range sensors, so you can detect enemies that are far away.
-Make it so that enemies still ping when within that short range, or make the camera slightly farther away so you can see them if they are in that range
-allow player red to look at other peoples construction area, so they can help people with how it works, if needed, you could make it so that said person would have to give permission first
-color ship codes, Caps red, lowercase blue, numbers green, symbols yellow. I cannot save my uberwin satellite because even with the screen shot, it is too hard to tell what the code is.
-Sometimes, the camera still zooms in on the build area when testing, and if you are not that person, then their ship has no collision. Also, in game, the same thing sometimes happens, where the ship seems to be considered not there, and has no collision, and no radar ping
-When blocks fly off, make them have a slight speed boost away from the center of gravity of the ship, porportional to distance, so that all ships would fly apart, at least slightly.
-Reduce space size in the case of less players(so they can find each other), and make space loop for space and asteroid mode,

 

[M0RT]

Minimap: I have thought of that, I will try it, I just realized that I used camera bounds manipulation in my other map and it worked.
Pieces: Yeah asteroid and ship piece engine is not yet fully complete, I will add map boundary check as I add the weapon check
Long range sensors: I think they maybe won't be necessary, if I reduce the map size.
Short range: Yeah the minimum range is set wrong, I will adjust it somehow.
Construction area: Maybe I will add the same possibility for every one, so it remains fair (and it will be useful in team scenarios). I will just need to figure out how.
Ship glitch: I have also seen it couple times, will examine
Color codes: Can do, does it really help that much?
Ships falling apart: Not necessary, once I finish collision, they will collide just as the ships falls off and fly in random directions. Also if the ship was rotating at least a bit, they will fly away in all directions.
Map size: Already mentioned that, will do.

Thanks

EDIT: I released 0.3.4, besides the changes stated above, I fixed a lot of bugs (-load and -use, -tst, ion engines tweak, leavers, position reset in test, ship color, another strange glitch that caused shot-off tiles in game not to disappear) Many thanks to masterofra for his bug reports.