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Should Blizzard Push Back?

Do You Think It Should Be Pushed Back


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Level 4
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:pshock:

Crappy Crap we are receiving-Do you guys think they should push the release date back? Granted it is pretty official at this point. But it feels like more needs to be done before the editor is released with the game and B.Net 2.0 is launched. There are so many limits they are putting on at the very last minute which is very disappointing for people planning to buy the game or for people who have already pre-ordered it. People playing the beta are becoming increasingly frustrated that games they are already creating will not work because of limitations they are making.

Will it suck? Well Obviously...
-Beyond the fact that we want to play the game, I think it would be pretty necessary to set it back. I think we need to cut our losses and wait, meh, more beta time wouldn't be so bad.

Do It!-Blizzard, please god, fuck cataclysm, give me a better starcraft...hell...starcraft deserves better than this.

In Conclusion...-So do you guys think they should push the release date back? I'm for it.

:nemad:
 

Dr Super Good

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It is perfectly fine. I am sure a lot of the problems brought up have already been fixed in local versions such as more stable editor and stuff like better organised custom maps.

Additionally we have 2 expansions to expect improvements on limits and enhancements to the engine. Remember how crap RoC was compared to TFT.

Honestly it is far better that we get all the extra content from a full release before we have to go back to our education than during out education.

Already people like Purple Poot are feeling slight withdrawl symptoms from the beta, im sure they do not want to wait. I also want to get back to playing custom maps, so the sooner the game is released the better.

What a lot of people fail to realise that as there are expansions comming there is no need to scrimp and beg them to add stuff when they will have all the time between now and the time the expansions are done to add stuff. I do agree that we should not be given an unfinished product, but I would hardly call SC2 unfinished, the engine works pretty well and the editor is no worse than WE for WC3. The limits are annoying at times but less annoying than the WC3 limits.
 
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umm no Dr Super Good, a lot of the problems have NOT been fixed and Blizzard has come out and stated that most of the problems won't be fixed before the release of SC2

Edit: and expansions are meant to ADD onto a game... not be a major bug fixing patch....
 
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There are a lot of problems. But I honestly don't think those problems are that big of a deal. I'll wait for a patch for them to fix it.

For just playing the campaign and some simple 1v1s online... yes ur prob right... but if you want to do more than that with SC2 (which most people do) then you're gunna run into a lot of problems which is why some have suggested to push the release date back.... to fix those before SC2 is released... honestly though it's a mute point because Blizz is just gunna release the game and hopefully fix stuff later.

I just hope Blizz fixes the editor (which they said they wont :thumbs_down:) because I enjoy editing more than I do playing lol
 
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The old blizzard would have pushed the release date back, cause as they say their priority is to make the game "as good and as polished as possible". While the game doesnt meet that criteria, it is in a level far upon decent (it is very good to say the least) and it is certainly on a release state (judging from the general game market). I dont really care if they fix the issues now or after release as soon as they ARE fixxed.

You cant expect Activision to push push back a release date, do you? Going back and looking at a game that could be the greatest f*cking game ever (for me), Vampire-Bloodlines, you can see how they prioritize things. The game had a weird taste in it, you could see that it could be far better given it some more months of work (judging from the awesome dialogs, and the dialog characters). They could at least fix the numerus bugs that made the game unplayable in certain cases. But they didnt.

edit: Forgot to say-> NULL vote by me.
 
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Level 40
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This old blizzard/new blizzard bullshit is getting old however hilarious it is. I love how SC2 is easily the game of the year in the beta phase alone and yet you guys are going on about how it isn't a quality product and needs to be pushed back. Hell, many Korean SC pros have said the game has the potential to be an eSport, with criticisms being about how it is slightly simpler than its predecessor in terms of strategy and mechanics (that said, old SC strategy was pretty horrible as well) and not lack of polish or quality.

They can easily fix any problems with battle.net that they feel are necessary in the next two months.

The Starcraft II beta was more balanced and polished than any other RTS on the market, let alone the release, and Battle.net is still amazing, even if it is a setback (I'm not convinced it is, but a bunch of people seem to be)--it's still the best gaming service around.
 
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This old blizzard/new blizzard bullshit is getting old however hilarious it is. I love how SC2 is easily the game of the year in the beta phase alone and yet you guys are going on about how it isn't a quality product and needs to be pushed back. Hell, many Korean SC pros have said the game has the potential to be an eSport, with criticisms being about how it is slightly simpler than its predecessor in terms of strategy and mechanics (that said, old SC strategy was pretty horrible as well) and not lack of polish or quality.

They can easily fix any problems with battle.net that they feel are necessary in the next two months.

The Starcraft II beta was more balanced and polished than any other RTS on the market, let alone the release, and Battle.net is still amazing, even if it is a setback (I'm not convinced it is, but a bunch of people seem to be)--it's still the best gaming service around.

I'd like to know where you're getting you're info from... cause currently you just sound like another fanboy..
 
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I'd like to know where you're getting you're info from... cause currently you just sound like another fanboy..

+1

Im sick of fanboys. Especially clueless fanboys. If you havent seen me angry, well look the link cause it is ******s like this one below that make me use a bazooka at him.. (doesnt know a **** about why those missing features are needed but talks @@@@). @@@@@ fanboys

http://starcraft.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4052&page=4

Yes I dont mind waiting to get the game better, dont know why cant wait. You can download and use the editor even if not in beta, no1 will hunt you, exactly mapmakers should not want the game to be soon when they can use the editor even now..
 
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Level 19
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I'd like to know where you're getting you're info from... cause currently you just sound like another fanboy..

They stated in an interview that Activision wouldn't interfere with Blizzard's developing plans and such.

But to be honest, it seems like everybody thinks the game and the editor sucks because they're not used to it, that's what I think.

Also, I think you all hoped for a bit too much.
 
The Activision stuff is stupid. People are blaming everything on them. I'll admit Blizzard is making some stupid decisions, and it's very possible Activision could have had a hand in this, but not with everything.

Anyways, most of the stuff can be fixed in patches. Some of it I would like to see fixed before the release, but these things shouldn't take more than a month and a half to fix. If they can't, oh well, I still want my retail version on July 27. I am NOT waiting for the Campaign. :p
 

Rui

Rui

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I think they should take any extra time they need or want. I'm not sure whether they'll be fixing anything after the game has been released. I haven't had the chance to look at any first patches of any game by Blizzard Entertainment, but after the game is out and sells well, I'm not sure they'll be in the mood to fix anything. The sales are done, that's what matters for a game company. Does an editor contribute to anything, especially when it's the first unit of a trilogy?
I read somewhere that Blizzard was aware that the editor was the reason for Warcraft III's success. But not fixing the editor before the game comes out is saying that mappers have to wait longer than regular players, when the reason Warcraft III still breathes the life it does today is thanks to the mappers, who kept players here, and thus are the reason for the game's survival. Come to think of it, it's kind of unfair.
My biggest concern is what I mentioned in the first paragraph, though.
 
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Personally, I think that Blizzard should push back the release date by at least a couple of months.

That way, I can upgrade my computer and be ready to play the game on super-awesome graphics mode.
/Sarcasm

But apart from that, I think the game is as ready as it will ever be. Beta testing can only reveal problems with online game-play - such as balancing and bugs within Battle.net 2.0. For example, the Campaign itself is only tested by Blizzard employees. And as such, it is up to them to balance, test and design missions which are fun to play, challenging and tell the story line. So, for all the bitching and whining going on that "Blizzard have let us down" or "Omg SC2 sucks" etc... Just wait until the game itself is released, and then you can flame all you want.

My only criticism is that they have seemingly borrowed a little bit too much from Warcraft 3. The graphics in general is a little too bland for my liking (I can only really play it on the lowest settings, so it looks shit). It is difficult to distinguish between units (again maybe my gfx settings)...

As for 'borrowing' from WC3 - the Immortal had 'Hardened Shields' before they rightfully renamed it to 'Overshield'... 'Blink'? That's right out of Warden's (HERO) abilities. The way that Marines can have a 'Combat Shield' upgrade? That's just plain unnecessary, I thought Marines were murderous and dangerous criminals who were mentally brainwashed into loyal soldiers. Now, we can give them nice little shields? Please. There are also little things which annoy me: The Med-Evac? What was wrong with the Medic from Broodwar? The Zerg have been totally revamped... There is very little which is familiar from the Broods of SC1 to what you have now in SC2. Zerglings have been made weaker. Roaches and Hydralisks - do Zerg need both? What happened to the Lurker? You see all of these 'trailers' and 'spoilers' claiming that the Zerg have been hibernating and evolving their genetics for years... and now they return without the Lurker? Perhaps the single most devastating ground unit in SC1?

But apart from my rant, I think the game will be a major success and any problems people have with it are purely from expecting too much. Dustin Browder (The lead designer of SC2), could have done a much better job. But alas, he is only one man.
 
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I'd like to know where you're getting you're info from... cause currently you just sound like another fanboy..
Since I addressed about five different things, it would be very useful for you to indicate what you are actually referring to in your post.

--

Rui: Not that I don't want a good editor, but the game will easily outlast wc3 on melee alone if they do a good job. SC is still going strong, after all.

My only criticism is that they have seemingly borrowed a little bit too much from Warcraft 3. The graphics in general is a little too bland for my liking (I can only really play it on the lowest settings, so it looks shit). It is difficult to distinguish between units (again maybe my gfx settings)...
Lowest graphics is your problem. I run it on medium (can run 1v1s, but not larger games, on high) and it's beautiful--I find the lack of shadows and many textures the real hitter on low. I also find it really easy to distinguish units on both low and medium, but many people say that on high or ultra it can become more difficult to (haven't used them enough to have an opinion on this).

As for 'borrowing' from WC3 - the Immortal had 'Hardened Shields' before they rightfully renamed it to 'Overshield'...
What's this from in Warcraft?

'Blink'? That's right out of Warden's (HERO) abilities.
And it fits well.

The way that Marines can have a 'Combat Shield' upgrade? That's just plain unnecessary, I thought Marines were murderous and dangerous criminals who were mentally brainwashed into loyal soldiers. Now, we can give them nice little shields? Please.
They are, but who's to say shields don't help, especially against swarms of melee attackers? Really, this seems like complaining for the sake of complaining.

There are also little things which annoy me: The Med-Evac? What was wrong with the Medic from Broodwar?
Because this isn't supposed to be SC:3d. The medivac is great because it makes bio not ridiculous early game and yet gives it extremely good mobility late game.

The Zerg have been totally revamped... There is very little which is familiar from the Broods of SC1 to what you have now in SC2. Zerglings have been made weaker.
Zerglings are still damn strong. Have they been made weaker or have the units they used to beat changed? I'm more convinced it's the latter.

Roaches and Hydralisks - do Zerg need both?
Well, considering they fulfill totally different roles, I'm pretty sure you don't play melee much.

What happened to the Lurker? You see all of these 'trailers' and 'spoilers' claiming that the Zerg have been hibernating and evolving their genetics for years... and now they return without the Lurker? Perhaps the single most devastating ground unit in SC1?
SC2, not SC1 3d. It was in for a while but they felt it didn't have as much of a role as it did in SC1. The lurker was effective in SC1 due to dark swarm and SK Terran. It might be able to take on a different role in SC2, but the same role is not open for it.
 
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Cardinian said:
As for 'borrowing' from WC3 - the Immortal had 'Hardened Shields' before they rightfully renamed it to 'Overshield'...

thats not a warcraft ability,remember that the stracraft 1 originaly had Borrow, then warcraft so warcraft took borrow from starcraft 1
 
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Perhaps my singular examples didn't hold much strength. The game to me just has a vibe of a futuristic warcraft 3. Perhaps its the unit sounds, especially Stalker... sounds identical to a crypt fiend. The Zerg over-view voice (or whatever you want to call it, "we require more vespene gas") sounds identical to the Naga in War 3. There's no denying that :p
 
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Perhaps my singular examples didn't hold much strength. The game to me just has a vibe of a futuristic warcraft 3. Perhaps its the unit sounds, especially Stalker... sounds identical to a crypt fiend. The Zerg over-view voice (or whatever you want to call it, "we require more vespene gas") sounds identical to the Naga in War 3. There's no denying that :p

well blizzard want to make "the perfect game" so they borrow some mechanics, units, abilities from the previous games, in order to do that..u can't deny this too. Warcraft was a medieval version of Starcraft 1, and now Starcraft 2 is a Futuristic version of Warcraft 3...maybe the next blizzard game(unknown to us, except diablo 3 and cataclysm) will be a medieval or an even more futuristic version of Starcraft 2, that will borrow more mechanics from Starcraft 2 as well as mechanics and units
 
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Cardinian said:
The game to me just has a vibe of a futuristic warcraft 3.
The reality is that regardless of some sparce similarities, both games play significantly differently in melee. It's not as if SC2 was WC3 with better graphics. Anyone who has played melee on both can tell you that they are very different.

Honestly, I don't know what everyone is whining about. The melee is so entertaining that I'd buy the game right now, in its beta stage, if I could.
 
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They stated in an interview that Activision wouldn't interfere with Blizzard's developing plans and such.

But to be honest, it seems like everybody thinks the game and the editor sucks because they're not used to it, that's what I think.

You're partly right, Activision said they wouldn't interfere with how blizzard MAKES the game.. but they control when Blizzard releases it... so by forcing Blizzard to release the game prematurely, Blizzard is forced to make it not at the quality the the "Old Blizzard" would have wanted.

That's the argument that people are talking about, and it's true that some of the problems people have with the editor are because they aren't used to it, but most of the problems are simply because it is a sloppy mess. Trust me I've had the editor for quite some time now and it hasn't gotten any better.
 
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A sloppy mess? I don't know what you are talking about, the editor is superb. Obviously you must be referring to the Data Editor, since the Trigger Editor is pretty much the same as Wc3, and the Terrain Editor is pretty straightforward.

Sure the Data Editor is extremely vast and will take a lot of time getting used to, but in no way is it sloppy.
 
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Between the poor design of battle.net's naming/friends sytem, chat system, and custom host system--yes, I definitely think it should be pushed back. But at this point there is no chance of that happening. So I can only hope that they magically make a 180 on some of these issues between now and release.
 
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Compared to the data editor in Wc3, it is an extreme mess... and it's not because the Data editor in Sc2 is more customizable, it's just that blizzard didn't take the time to correctly group everything together...
 
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You're partly right, Activision said they wouldn't interfere with how blizzard MAKES the game.. but they control when Blizzard releases it... so by forcing Blizzard to release the game prematurely, Blizzard is forced to make it not at the quality the the "Old Blizzard" would have wanted.

Hm? Activision and Blizzard operate completely independant.
 
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Poor design of BNet's naming system and friends system? Seeing as they are pretty much the same as in Wc3, I'm curious as to what you are smoking.

The chat system is arguably better, since we have person to person chat, party chat, and will have clan channels.

Hosting is arguable, and I agree that local hosting would be nice.

--

It's not like those things would take 2 months to change even if they were issues, which most of them aren't.

--

Turminator, still waiting for your explanation about what you wanted citations for in my old post.
 
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From an interview--

Q: What will happen to the Blizzard brand name?
A: Stays the same

Q: What will change with regard to the day-to-day operations at Blizzard?
A: There will be no changes in the way Blizzard operates.

Q: How will this impact Blizzard's games?
A: This will not impact Blizzard's games.

Q: Will there be any visible differences in Blizzard's logo or packaging/marketing materials as a result of this deal?
A: No

Q: Will there be any management changes at Blizzard as a result of this deal?
A: No

Q: Will Activision and Blizzard now share development teams?
A: No

Q: Will the release schedules for any Blizzard games be impacted?
A: No


Q: Will any of Blizzard's offices close as a result of the deal? Or, will any new offices open?
A: No

Q: Will any employees move to different offices as a result of the deal?
A: No

Q: Does this deal include Activision's and Blizzard's international offices?
A: Yes, every part of our companies in the U.S. and abroad is involved in this deal.
 

Dr Super Good

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Roaches and Hydralisks - do Zerg need both?
From the limited defense maps I played against waves of unmodified units, roaches seem annoyingly effective against buildings. Whereas Hydralisks are annoyingly good against air, giving prtoss carriers a run for their mony any day. What is even more funny is you are comparing an ground based combat unit, the roach, to a ground and air combat unit, the hydralisk, asking if they need both. With only the roach the zerg would seriously lack ground to air units and without the roach they might have problems early game taking down bunkers and such (my knowledge on the roach in actual game play is limited however it is easy to see that it does have a roll, even if that is not taking down buildings like I say it is).

What happened to the Lurker?
What happened to the Firebat? What happened to the Medic? Wait both are available in the campaign and thus are usable in custom maps. Infact there could even be a chance that the lurker is in wings of liberty as special Zerg oppoenents in the campaign but what is for sure that even if they do not make liberty, lurkers will be in the zerg campaign when it comes in the following years. If you are unhappy with the lack of lurkers, you can just make your own melee mod with lurkers in it and play that, however I seriously doubt it will be as ballenced as actual SC2 gameplay.

The Zerg have been totally revamped... There is very little which is familiar from the Broods of SC1 to what you have now in SC2. Zerglings have been made weaker.
Something tells me you were sending zerglings against large numbers of haelons, planatry fortresses, colossuses, siege tanks or any form of air able to hit ground. All of these will mow down zerglings with minimal difficulty due to splash, high damage or bonous damage. Try sending them against units which do not have splash damage and you will see they still are reasonably effective. For example if your enemy is stupid and has an undefended base, 20 upgraded zerglings could rush in and kill all his ACUs before he even realises what is happening and then be gone long before his army arives. You can not expect 20 zerglings to take down 10 haelons or something as those have bonous damage to light units and splash.

There are also little things which annoy me: The Med-Evac? What was wrong with the Medic from Broodwar?
I would say it was to change the effective use of the heal unit. In SC1 you could still swamp mariens with zealots and zerglings even if they had medics. In SC2 this is more so the case as now zealots have charge and zerglings move so fast you can easilly lose rack of them. However bring in a medivac and your army will get healed during combat without any risk of the healers being killed cause its an air unit. Also it means its now weak to air attacks as you could send in some anti air units and kill all the healing before they have a chance to do something about it and then stomp their army. Additionally it is a fused dropship, meaning it transports and heals unlike the orignal medic which could just heal. Finally they can only heal like 2-3 units or something, everything else is mechanical meaning their deployment is rather limited however they make great use in team games with zerg as they can heal every zerg unit. Do not forget how powerful stimmed marines can be, the medivac lets them use stim without permantly damaging their health as they do not self heal. Incase you did not read above, the medic will be in the wings of liberty campagin thus feel free to make your own melee mod where the medic is included.

My only criticism is that they have seemingly borrowed a little bit too much from Warcraft 3. The graphics in general is a little too bland for my liking (I can only really play it on the lowest settings, so it looks shit). It is difficult to distinguish between units (again maybe my gfx settings)...
So you are saying that just cause low looks bad, the game looks bad? Have you even seen WC3's low... That looks like something from a PS1 (and that could probably do better). Most of the vistual effects are only present on medium or better settings. On ultra which is what I play at it looks amazing. Real shadows with self shading (unlike WC3's blobs), HDR (unlike WC3s normal lighting as it did not even have bloom), normal maps and emmisive maps ontop of the standard textures (WC3 had textures only). Physics based model support (unlike WC3's animation only). Water uses customizable reflections and colouring and distortion (unlike WC3's fixed). How are the graphics at all simlar to WC3's?

'Blink'? That's right out of Warden's (HERO) abilities.
What should they call it if not blink? Teleport? Wait thats even more commonly used. Portal? Well there is no portal so that makes no sense. Time warp? Why would they use it to teleport and not destroy the enemies. I know, Blink, as the unit teleports in a blink, but thats what they did call it so, um, ehh, oh. Its a name that fits what it does, which is why it was called blink in WC3 as well.

Im really getting tired of these hard core haters of the game. What is really more irritating is they dare make fun of us by saying we are fanboys yet their arguments are mostly shallow. Yes I agree that some areas would be nice to have fixed before release, even if that means a delay of a few weeks, but most of the stuff brought up in this post is just garbage.

They can not hold the release back of the game anymore. The release data has been too hard set for too long to suddenly be changed. In 1 month the game will be in shops so changing the date back would mean huge financial penalties due to broken promises and lost sales (holidays will be over).
 
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hmm... would have really liked to see the origonal interview... maybe the reason it's gone is because things have changed or because it was a lie in the first place? :p

anyway as for the editor I'm just saying that it still isn't ready for release and that's all... also Blizzard has said that they won't improve the editor after launch cause they don't directly support it... so lets hope they fix everything before...


As for Battle.net..... don't ge me started
 
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Poor design of BNet's naming system and friends system? Seeing as they are pretty much the same as in Wc3, I'm curious as to what you are smoking.

The chat system is arguably better, since we have person to person chat, party chat, and will have clan channels.

Hosting is arguable, and I agree that local hosting would be nice.

We still have no idea what naming system we're even getting. It could be that names are made unique, and it could also be that we are getting identifiers back (in fact, a CM alluded to that being the case in a recent post). And if we are getting identifiers back, we're still half-assing the system.

The friends system sucks but that's really an extension of the bad naming systems + lack of chat channels.

You may not agree on this point, but I don't think it's really acceptable to release the game without some form of chat channels. At best we've seen this feature in the planning stages for post-release. In wc3, I organized large custom games. I can't do that in SC2 without chat channels, that seems like a pretty big hole to me.

I would like to see the custom map hosting system completely revamped personally, but I don't think that's going to happen. Even then, there's still a lot of just basic things that have to be reconsidered/fixed in that regard.
 
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I want to introduce myself a little bit to THW, since ppl dont know me. I'll do it here as this is connected to why Im talking about mostly playing ladder issues in Bnet 2.0 and leave mapmaking issues to you, I don't want to mess there cause you know as good as or better than me:

I can definitely call myself a 'mission creator', cause I've done maps on War2, SC1 and Broodwar (even in internet cafe ppl have watched me making a map lol, not that much of a map),Empire Earth, War3, now Sc2. Missions creator because I only do futuristic maps since 2006 and are sort of missions - in war3, and sc2 is now perfect for that.

However, I am a casual maker and prefer not to be called a mapmaker. That means, I do things from time to time, for fun or seriously, not really creating some projects to be played by all with huge teams etc etc.

In fact, whatever maps I do as 'missions' is simply for myself to run my own storyline. It is just for me and I don't make public maps, not to say projects (however, I will release 2 melee maps or rather host on Bnet 2.0). This explains why you dont see maps of me, models, textures (I did have some road tileset but they created better so I deleted mine).

For models, I can do models from scratch since all is directed at futuristic maps, you get the idea. However, considering I'm not an artist/modeler etc I dont do my own textures and ofc dont worry I dont use any user's textures. However, I would for example use game textures for the Buildings that I have to recreate from Empire Earth I simply because I am not like the mapmakers and dont care about such things. It's offline, I dont share them with anyone, so all is good.

I'm specialized in making future/modern Building models and similar units like satellites, devices etc, again that don't require complex animations such as walking creatures, etc. However, it was more to see how much it takes. It takes so much time that I barely make the things that I need myself, not to say do a model request for someone.. So I was in THW to get help and offer help from time to time.

Above all I am a 1v1 Player - in War3 now in SC2. Yes, I have played lots of tournaments in war3, now in sc2. I am not a pro player let say 'starting to get good'. If I were a pro player, what would I be doing at THW? My mates would just laugh at me (hah they would do even if they knew im here) :p

Mapmaking is great and you do amazing job, I see great work, but it takes so much time, that I see it only as you have to be a kid to use so much time on that, I'm growing and cannot afford so much time on mapmaking, that's why mine is casual.

If I had to choose only 1 and release the other, I would definitely choose to be the player, not the mapmaker.

In relation to what you learn about me above, here is what I simply want from bnet and why I'd love to wait months if they made it:

My personal issues with Bnet 2.0 arent LAN. But as you can see I'm not egoistic and saying we dont need these features cause I WON'T be using them... We need LAN for those who do LAN parties, for me Bnet is fine for tournaments. Need I say in War3 I preferred to even be in bnet playing with my team but well since Garena turnt out to be the best service, I hang out there. But Bnet 2.0 at least doesnt have the delay Bnet 1.0 had, so for me LAN isn't the main issue,

My personal issues with Bnet 2.0 are

- better ladder system, give us single ladder, and let those who dont wanna compete on high level to be in an Amateur league where you can have 1 win Achievement, divisions ranked 3rd among 10, what you want. Do you see? Again Im offering something for others as well, cause if it were for me I'd say - Give us single ladder, newbs cant be ranked? Their problem.

- Chat channels, chat commands and clans, DOh I dont wanna be in Graveyard. It's kind of like space. no one but you, you may see someone only if you enter a game, wow.

And instead of adding your opponent in friend list which was just for beta, being in a channel where you can chat and whisper to him what game you create etc . Anyone calls this useless??
 

Dr Super Good

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- better ladder system, give us single ladder, and let those who dont wanna compete on high level to be in an Amateur league where you can have 1 win Achievement, divisions ranked 3rd among 10, what you want. Do you see? Again Im offering something for others as well, cause if it were for me I'd say - Give us single ladder, newbs cant be ranked? Their problem.
I have no clue what you are talking about, the ladder is a single ladder with basic intervals to allow people to quickly tell how good they are. For example PurplePoot is a dimond player, he does not have to say he is number 1056 or what ever if hes comparing himself to someone who is in silver who would be number 250000+ or something insane. Instead you can do quick gudges of where players stand by what league they are in. Additionally it is to make it more psycologically easy to axcept your position. If you are heading towards number 1 in silver, you soon know you will be in gold and so you feel happy. If you know you are number 250000 in your area, it does not make you too happy going to number 249999. Yes these are week arguments for, but they are less week as your arguments against.

If you mean why no global world ladder, then open your eyes and you will see that no blizzard game has had one.

- Chat channels, chat commands and clans, DOh I dont wanna be in Graveyard. It's kind of like space. no one but you, you may see someone only if you enter a game, wow.
I sort of do agree with the lack of chat channels, it will change the way some custom maps are organized in ways we are yet to see, so I guess we just have to wait till the game is out to see how this effects us. Also the clan thing blizzard is aware of and is considering adding after release.
 
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Yes, they did. Post release.

I think the whole point of the debate is whether that was a wise decision or if they should have pushed release for an actually feature complete battle.net.
 
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There is going to be a pro ladder.
There are going to be chat groups. Chat groups will be better than channels. Effectively, you could have a chat group for a certain thing, like say a popular map, or Zerg strategy, or whatever, and then you would be able to be in multiple chatgroups chatting with people who have similar interests and actually have a fair chance of meeting people who aren't robots.

The graphics in general is a little too bland for my liking (I can only really play it on the lowest settings, so it looks shit).
... and this is Blizzards fault how? Graphics look bad on low, but great on medium (there is a HUGE difference between the two).
Compared to the data editor in Wc3, it is an extreme mess... and it's not because the Data editor in Sc2 is more customizable, it's just that blizzard didn't take the time to correctly group everything together...
Hardly. Been working with it for a few weeks and it now feels nice, organized, and extremely useful. But meh, your opinion.
The way that Marines can have a 'Combat Shield' upgrade? That's just plain unnecessary, I thought Marines were murderous and dangerous criminals who were mentally brainwashed into loyal soldiers. Now, we can give them nice little shields? Please.
...wat. You haven't ever seen riot shields before? Also, its actually rather realistic as the threats that marines typically face, such as zerg, rely on claws and corrosive projectiles, which a defensive shield would help against.
Roaches and Hydralisks - do Zerg need both?
Yes, they do. Remove Hydras and Zerg get raped. Remove Roaches and Zerg get raped even more so. In case you haven't noticed, they occupy very different roles. Personally, I would like seeing Hydras earlier in the techtree as they were in SC1, but meh.
Perhaps my singular examples didn't hold much strength. The game to me just has a vibe of a futuristic warcraft 3. Perhaps its the unit sounds, especially Stalker... sounds identical to a crypt fiend. The Zerg over-view voice (or whatever you want to call it, "we require more vespene gas") sounds identical to the Naga in War 3. There's no denying that :p
Agreed. Played through SC1's campaign again a few days ago, kinda miss having good voice acting for zerg.


There are problems with Bnet 2.0, and a few minor issues with the editor. However, most of the arguments against bnet 2.0 arise because people can't be bothered to do their research (rather sad as they spend this time instead arguing fallicious points on long rants on forums), want a 3D version of brood war and think that any changes/additions/removals are for the worst, think that a free beta should have every feature and service of a full game, or expect everything to be incredibly easy to learn at first glance.
 
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All the game needs is a UI overhaul, but I think it should be pushed back a month or so anyways to give them time to add chat channels for release, not post release.
 
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