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60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Rise of Winterchill 0.71m

Submitted by Softmints
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
After months of supposed inactivity, Rage Winterchill has amassed a rogue legion of demons, satyr, and undead to use in a fanatical strike against the Night Elves in an attempt to avenge Archimonde's death. After demolishing several elven outposts, he has stationed himself in the ruins of a former city, and is prepared to fight. The Elves are underprepared and doom lingers overhead; can you turn the tides of the battle?

Features:
* A high-level AoS with engaging, action-packed gameplay.
* Thirty completely
original heroes to fight with.
* Focus on
interesting abilities which take aiming/timing, and reward skilled players.
* Almost
no stuns/complete disables which leave your character helpless.
* Stat-based abilities which scale differently depending on your item build.
* Optional Tournament Mode with ordered bans and picks.
*
8 years of iteration and polish.

* Very
progressive item systems, designed for ease of use:
* Clearly organised Marketplace interface (see screenshots below) with full information about effects stacking and recipe components.
* No overlapping 'orb abilities': everything works on every hero and with every other item.
* 'Recipe' items will auto-complete if you already have enough gold.
* Type -i itemname to buy an itemname, saves time on searching (various other shortcuts available).
* Interesting items which improve ability fields such as Duration and AoE, to add more build options.

* Clean visual style without gaudy effects.
* All necessary information is contained within the map, no need for an external reference.
* Continued
on-demand support for bugs/balance fixes, though active development has ended.


Shortfalls:
* There are no AI/bot players in the map, nor any immediate plans to add them. Sorry!
* Large (8MB) file size due to lots of custom assets.


Screenshots:
(Plenty available below!)


Want to play?
* You can find players on the RoW Steam group.
* The latest versions are always on MakeMeHost.com.
* RoW takes approximately 50 minutes, and it's best played with at least 4v4. For 3v3 or less, the game will activate an all-mid mode.

More details about the game can be found on the Homepage!


Changelog:
* View it online here.
* Or find it in the map's quest menu (along with accreditations).


Video!
Check out recorded streams at the Twitch.tv channel.

Below, a video featuring out-takes from couple of games from 2012. Huge thanks to Sep for putting it together!



Related Content:
Softmints' other work includes:
* DotA Outland, which is this map's predecessor.
* Leraux, a single-player puzzle-adventure game.
* Lane-Pushing Games, a blag about AoS maps.

Keywords:
AoS, Winterchill, Rise, DotA, Outland, RoW, Softmints, Rise of Winterchill, DotA Outland, Hero, Heroes, Spell, Custom, Moba
Contents

Rise of Winterchill 0.71m (Map)

Reviews
Moderator
18:41, 23rd Dec 2008 Rui: Not a bad AoS. Its bases were well covered up, but concretely, it did not come out so well. See my full review. With a full 3/5 (Useful), this map is Approved! 21:44, 16th May 2011 Cweener: Went back through it on...
  1. Softmints

    Softmints

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    The 'desired effect' is to build a more dynamic/engaging rapport between players. As with any AoS, players try to zone each-other: reach a position where they are safe from enemy abilities, and have a better opportunity to land theirs. Having different (quoth the homepage: ludicrously abstruse) ways to target abilities increases the variety and complexity of zones, and yes, I like this. This complexity of zones is what I am calling a matter of taste, because juggling more variables can be distracting/confusing/etc. and is probably not for everyone.

    I've never heard anyone voice complaints about Attract's targeting before; most of the regulars have told me it's quite fluid. It is of course never my intention to impede the player's input, unless where necessary to provide them with more options. Some abilities (such as Caber Toss) have typed commands which disable features such as autocasting, and these are routinely added in response to player feedback.

    Dreamweaver's Haze is pretty crazy :csup:. I don't think anyone's vocally against it though, so I don't have any plans to alter it.

    The majority of cooldowns in the game lie in the range of 10-20 seconds, which is about right for abilities which can be used often, but not spammed to the point where missing (and consequently player skill) doesn't matter. Usually only ultimates have long cooldowns.

    I don't think players feel the need to max any abilities first. Mana costs quickly worsen as abilities are levelled up, so it's usually good to spread out skill points early to save mana. Alternatively, maxing abilities makes them more effective, but you can't use them as often. It's a trade-off.

    I'm not sure how to interpret this. Would you mind elaborating a bit?
     
  2. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    I only referred to the input controls. Having more "strange"/rare abilities like firing off a line damage ability starting from a chosen location to another one surely turns zoning extraordinary though I would not forcibly consider it as more complex.

    Why do you think a more spammy spell (5-8 seconds) would be missing-friendly? You will still lack behind if your opponent hits. Of course, it's better replacable and you can deal damage even after some of your moves were avoided but otherwise a hero will be practically two-shot, the random factor increases (you may hit or miss the target by luck and it's crucial) and the damage numbers would not be very flexible since you either get the cooldown-worthy damage through or nothing out of it. 10-20 seconds cooldown in comparison to being able to bite the dust within 1-2 seconds.

    Whether mana costs and the like should rise with higher ability level is a problem of many games and maps. You may hurt yourself just by levelling it up. Is this a compromise or do you see it as a gambit requiring the player to decide since he/she cannot turn back?

    Have already spoken of the input mechanics and also the weirdness with Dreamweaver's Haze. In a confrontation, you have to quickly come to decisions and, as stated before, it's unlikely to know if you hit the target (hello randomity) and you have to be exactly aware of all different actions' strength, which you do not get to see much of, by the way, because of minor frequency. You cannot just burn your spells as you intensified the punishment though it may also polarizingly strike in the other direction. So it's badly calculable.
     
  3. Softmints

    Softmints

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    I use 'complex' in the sense of more factors to consider, such as proximity to other units, trees, angles for knockback, facing angle, etc., which many RoW abilities take as arguments.

    Spammy abilities are 'missing friendly': if you miss you can just take another shot! This is not a bad thing (Hakkar's Whip, among others, is fine), but they shouldn't be as hard to land or effective as less spammy ones.

    Yes, RoW can be a high-stakes game, but I maintain there's no luck involved: only good or bad predictions. Having long cooldowns means players generally don't land lucky shots, because they're not throwing spells randomly: it's too expensive. Abilities which deal high situational damage (infamously Hand of Death) should be either appropriately easy to avoid, or appropriately hard to land.

    I consider it primarily an incentive to encourage players to diversify skill builds and try new things.

    Haze's free movement zone creates unpredictability, which heroes will usually either avoid because it's risky, or embrace because there's an opportunity (to initiate, escape). No denying it's weird :crazz:.

    Learning which heroes and abilities do what is part of learning the ropes for any game. I admit that being so familiar with the map, I'm not in a position to say how new players approach it (though I happily take advice on this whenever it's available).
     
  4. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    blub
    [​IMG]


    me2, to be using the mentioned ones does not require a high level of weirdness in abilities.

    I do not say that they should try to be lucky but it may happen and it would be much less critical with spammy spells because more attempts approximate the actual probability/actual skill. And of course, higher cooldowns decrease the flexibility and it's more boring. What I still wanted to ask: Any chance for cooldown reduction items?
     
  5. Softmints

    Softmints

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    Luck is an attack-only stat :cwink:. I tried a fixed counter approach and it wasn't much good :cconf:.

    Cooldown reduction items: too hard to implement. The order in which I balance abilities is:
    (Here is some cool/interesting aiming) => (How much reward is landing that worth?) => (How much can I let the player spam this?)
    The problem with doing this backwards is that the cool/interesting aiming (being subjective here ofc) has a certain investment of effort on the player's part, and if the reward doesn't match the effort, the player isn't motivated to use it at all no matter how spammy it is.

    I don't expect to be altering cooldowns on a global scale at this point in development, so my advice is sticking with heroes who naturally have spammy abilities such as Hakkar, Lich, Iofur, and Kukulza. Can't please everyone, etc. :cneut:

    Thanks for the comments though.
     
  6. Garfield1337

    Garfield1337

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    You could use LUA to generate many levels for each ability where each would differ by cooldown and make a system that would change ability's cd depending on the reduction. Though it probably wouldn't be worth it as it would, as far as i know, increase loading time significantly.
     
  7. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    Still this luck and any others influence the use of abilities as well. Would you not call it luck if both players predict badly but one hits his/her stuff? Or if you just cannot have a better prediction because you have no sight range for example and do not completely know what up to which point the enemy has thought of (since that is nearly impossible and may be altered by every little thing the opposite perceives outside of the game you get no clue of).

    When I say cooldown reduction I would expect max 20%. The reason for me asking was more that I wanted to know how your technical solution would look like though.
     
  8. 091846

    091846

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    damn it no change log , what is with the new update ? i love this game ..... it sucks to have no changelog........
     
  9. Vengeancekael

    Vengeancekael

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    I've been looking at already approved maps and I've noticed that your map weirdly enough got 5/5 from Cweener, although I don't actually see an actual review pointing out the improvements made for the map to deserve a higher rating than the previous one (3/5).
    And also is there a changelog whatsoever?

    Because I really do not agree with the high rating, I agree, it's a very polished map, with an ok terrain, nothing spectacular though, also a neat hero selection system, but that's not really a gameplay changer.
    However, originality-wise it's the same old AOS idea, nothing new or fresh, maybe a cool interface for the shop, but no fresh gameplay systems or anything.
    And, this definitely is not balanced. In any way.
    I've played 3 matches with friends, both from the hive and also users on the battle.net and the matches were quite weird.
    The guy with the orange whip is quite strong and can massacre heroes in the beginning easily due to heroes being extremely weak and they also have low amounts of hp, I don't really know why you did that, it's certainly not something that makes the player feel good about himself. And the support heroes are just terribly squishy, hard to lane with and they can barely deal any damage to tanks/dps heroes.
    Also I'm not really sure why the 'no stunning abilities' idea is actually balancing the gameplay in any way, stuns would actually be great counters, to cancel an oncoming skill cast and escape really fast, however some heroes don't have any abilities that stun the enemy/slow them down or anything and thus fleeing with them is quite hard.
    So unless you have any explanations for this, I'll leave it as is.
    If not, I'll set the rating back to 3/5. Already I can set it to 4/5 for being nothing original, but that's a different subject.
     
  10. DonDustin

    DonDustin

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    kinda have to agree with Kael. While you do have a few really cool concepts for skills and some heroes also got some nice synergy between their skills, this is still one of the most unbalanced AoS maps I have played so far. And some of the systems are really complicated and not that nice for a face paced map like an aos(example: the shop)
     
  11. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    To the above ^ "Fast"* Nice fail there. You could say the same thing about Item combinations with DOTA if you didn't have the community and comprehensive guides to compensate for the difficulty and harsh community for beginners. This can be said for all advanced MOA style maps.

    There are far more unbalanced maps if you have a look around. The systems are presented well and i had no problem using them.

    For/Against the above


    The map its self is well layed out and the systems are well detailed.
    It reminds me 90% of LoL kind of gameplay. And the interface is also at that level.

    That is the level of a game played widely used today so that is very good.


    The item buying system is also usefull and very well detailed. Likey =D

    Alot of work was put into this, and it is extremly well presented in both design and gameplay. It is easy to get used to and the systems at hand quickly become a second nature.

    If it had a community such as Dota comprehensive guides would create a fine balance between hero combos and item combinations to lead to the strongest possible a hero can be. This would then lead to better and easier balancing.

    The AOS idea is actually a genre called MOA now. So on the orginallity front it can kinda get dumbed :L


    o_O Otherwise you could say ALL TD MAPS ARe the same. OR ALL RTS MAps are the same. Just with different units and styles :L

    As it still must fit the genre its in, this is defined on base characteristics.

    The idea of No stun is a Unique in AOS maps :L so therefore it is a defining characteristic.


    Terrain is adequate, alot like dota's though.


    "Could be called a Dota clone"
    Balancing like Dota is dependant on the Team's composition. Therefore it can be heavly bias just to the people who wait before picking to choose a counter to the opponents choice.

    Early feed tips the game heavilly to ones favour.=Not very noob friendly.

    Like a 90% Moa's will produce a harsh community because of this.

    AWMAGUMMI 7.4MB :L 0.6 mb to go and you hit dar maximum dar. Watch out =P


     
  12. Softmints

    Softmints

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    Okay, lots to get through here. I'll try to be brief on each point:

    • The first rating was from December 2008. I later requested a re-evaluation in the Admin Contact Forum because over two years and 50 versions had gone by, and the request was granted. Evidently, Cweener didn't write an extensive review. If that's a problem, feel free to write one yourself.
      With regards to the map's rating, I don't know what the policy for one moderator disagreeing with another's rating is, so if you remain intent on changing it, I would prefer to start a thread in the map moderation forum where we can discuss it with the admins.
    • There is a detailed changelog in F9 (Quests).
    • The terrain is designed purely for function, not for aesthetics. It is important that the terrain be flat so players can easily calculate angles, and that trees be abundant as they have a crucial function in gameplay. Given these constraints, I think I've done an appreciable job.
    • "no fresh gameplay systems".
      Please reference another AoS with at least three of the following:
      • No hard stuns.
      • Gold for hitting towers.
      • All abilities aimed.
      • No conflicting items.
      • Items which modify radius/duration/luck.
      • All heroes with diverse stat-based ability scaling allowing for a variety of builds.
      • Knockback dealing bonus damage when targets hit obstacles.

      Please understand that originality is not the holy grail when it comes to maps. There are a lot of features I've trimmed off over the last few months which were original, but not necessary or cohesive to core gameplay. As a result, the defining features of RoW are more subtle, but combine to give very distinct gameplay.
    • Balance is an ongoing pursuit, and tends to fluctuate because the map is updated frequently. Hakkar is in the top tier right now, but he's not alone up there, and he isn't dominating the hero pool. Supports are a different role and aren't expected to be putting tanks in the dumpster. Played properly with a good team (it's a team game), they can be highly effective.
    • "they also have low amounts of hp, I don't really know why you did that, it's certainly not something that makes the player feel good about himself."
      If a player has self-esteem issues, I would point them towards alternative map of mine: Soft Escape.
    • "I'm not really sure why the 'no stunning abilities' idea is actually balancing the gameplay in any way".
      If it's the same for both sides, balance is unaffected; not having hard stuns is a design decision. There are numerous interrupts which are not stuns, such as knockbacks.
    • "some of the systems are really complicated and not that nice for a face paced map like an aos(example: the shop)".
      There is often confusion about this. The Marketplace interface is primarily for viewing items. For buying items, use the -i command, which is very easy. "-i boots" buys boots. I could labour on this point, but it's well explained on the homepage (link in my signature).

    I welcome any further discussion you might have on the matter.
     
  13. Alyssa

    Alyssa

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    Same old AoS idea? So after the original map of a genre is made, none are allowed to follow? All RPGs and TDs should automatically be dismissed for being unoriginal because they've been done already? RoW has several things, as Soft posted above, that separates itself from maps (so it's not the same old AoS) such as DoE, AotZ, ToB, AoM, DotA, LoL, etc., that have redundant concepts themselves.

    I'm sorry but 3 games is not enough to really evaluate a map like RoW in my opinion. RoW is not a straight forward game, like say, a generic RPG or hero defense, where you can play a couple times and really understand core concepts and the depth of what can happen. After my first game, I knew I'd need to play atleast a dozen games to really understand multiple builds, skills, counters, and mechanics.

    A couple things:

    -Some heroes may seem overpowered when playing a map for the first time, however Hakkar (orange whip guy) won't do that against people who know what they are doing, so it's a difference of knowledge/skill rather than him being overpowered off the bat.

    -This is meant to be a 5v5 map (4v4 minimum) and supports have their potential maximized when laning with an ally. There are roles in RoW, so supports aren't going to be doing loads of damage early game to enemies.

    Because point-click stuns/disables are overdone in most other AoS maps and require little-to-no skill to pull off (ie cleverly disguised Storm Bolts, ensnares, etc.). This is where RoW separates itself, involving aimed abilities and no hard disables. Knockbacks can cancel some skill casts and channels when aimed correctly. As well, not every hero needs a gap closer, disable, or escape. If someone was caught out of position or overextended as a hero without a 'stun/slow' and died because of it, perhaps the player should play smarter when he revives.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  14. Oxygen

    Oxygen

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    This isn't dice-roll luck as much as it's heavily axed towards the better player. If I asked "your mom" to blind shoot arrows using ability X, and then compared her succes rate with mine, I can assure you that I would end up much better. Replace my mom with any other player, the case is the same - because I played this more than anyone here, I can certainly better asses success on skillshots, blindfolded or not.


    As for the general comments, I can assure you that none of you have played RoW enough to even remotely begin to understand how it plays out. The irony is that the project will be left to be evaluated by people who do not have the required knowledge to do so properly. And by that I mean that you have to experience the map in a true clean inhouse environment with people to explain how stuff works to truly appreciate the map. Which seldom occurs on its own. A shame, really.
     
  15. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    Yes, if you search in the low quality area that just copy everything. They can be greatly altered with different mechanics and concepts. As for TDs, there are so many more than AoS that I guess it's less likely to recognize the variety. Softmints presents "Gold for hitting towers" as a fresh gameplay system. This may matter in theory and pro-play but I have not even noticed it yet, so it has not changed my view/playstyle of the map so far and this can transfer to what you perceive as significant in TDs/RTSs/other maps.

    Do not get the statement with "Balance would be unaffected if I gave the same stunning abilities to both sides.". As with any other ability and composition, they can be differentiated by a lot, it makes a huge distinction whom and how you give it to. And even if everyone had the same abilities, that would alter gameplay possibilities and player controls, which are parts of balance. Btw, you have spoken of "all abilities are aimed" above in fresh gameplay systems. I can grasp how you mean that but want to remind you that almost every ability of every map needs to be somehow aimed (to be effective at least). You cannot throw a Stormbolt without sight of the target, positioning, paying attention to your cooldowns, mana, others in team, what counters the enemy possesses, timing, ambush etc. Your objective seems to be that there is "always" a chance to dodge a critical situation or how was this design decision thought?

    The scenario I described was more like what if they both had about the same skill, same handicap and needed to hit the target in rotation with only 10% hit chance each. Who hits first (without the other one succeeding in the same round), wins. The result would only balance out with greater iteration of the game. You may say you are confident to hit more than 10% with your higher skill but it also depends on the abilities of your enemy, which might increase similarly.

    Now, that can always be said "the map is a lot better when players know more of it". While I doubt this total unpredictability in general and that those you mentioned hit the knowledge bar/as if it would be so one-dimensional, I was targeting the not-so-pro audience and accounting for those belongs to balance. Softmints might surely neglect these players if it was a hindrance for his/her targets however. Guess I won't learn better of this game then.
     
  16. Softmints

    Softmints

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    In most AoS maps, it takes significant effort to unlock the gold reward for destroying a tower. Combined with being away from your own tower being risky due to ganks, pushing often gets delayed until that reward can be claimed safely (usually in team pushes). In contrast, having a direct and immediate reward for pushing makes it viable at all stages of the game, and balances it nicely against the risk of being ganked.

    It's not important unless the metagame is well-established amongst players, and has no adverse affect on new players' exepctations.

    Dunno how to interpret that. My point was: balance is numbers; if everyone's stun durations are 0, then it's still balanced.

    Most people seem to know what I mean when I say aiming.

    Not really :crazz:. I have aimed abilities because I enjoy using them, and the players seem to agree. I don't have stuns because I don't enjoy being stunned. And again, players seem to agree that less downtime, especially at critical moments like when players are exchanging spells, is a good thing.

    I don't aim to neglect new or casual players, but I know the experience I want to deliver, and there is a learning curve before players are familiar enough with the mechanics to be able to get that experience. If you have suggestions for making that curve shallower without detracting from the top end, I'm all ears.
     
  17. Frotty

    Frotty

    Wurst Reviewer

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    I dont know if they got fixed in the most recent version since i didnt play it afaik, but some bugy that kept on being present since 061a:
    • If you use the market via GUI and buy an item, the icons aren't updated (players gold amount should be rechecked and icons appear red)
    • Dont know if willed but The Void Masochist can drop coins when kileld by alies and adds a soul to that felhound hero
    • With any kind of leap/tree destroying spell you can kill the treewall on the right side/ right bottom corner and get behind it

    Small things:
    • Presents should have playercolor..
    • buy-commands should be readable somewhere
    • If you are at enemy fountain you get lifedereg but afair no buffSFX
    • if you get hit with poison that makes dmg when you move it needs to have a more distinct SFX/explanation. Almost no1 reads the buff tooltips and tries to run away.
     
  18. WaterKnight

    WaterKnight

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    Now I get your contradiction. Nobody claimed the game would be unfair in its current state, just that disables would add to variety and homing abilities turn it better calculable, so it would be easilier playable and not as weird.

    Including me but just wanted to remind you that there are other forms, so "all aiming" is not necessarily a plus point. How are active items thought to be controlled btw, of which you have some? Mouse only and NumBlock hotkeys are knowingly atrocious.

    And at the same time you increase cooldowns and make abilities that can only be cast on exactly two enemies else resulting in nothing. That reduces freedom and flexibility, too.
     
  19. Cozythrias

    Cozythrias

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    Just wow.

    EDIT:

    This game really has HIGH potential. This is a very good AoS game. I hope you continue updating this game, add more items and please add GAME MODES, All Pick mode please.

    Tho I would like to report some 'bugs'/'typo'

    When you use the 'Ranger' in the Legion side, her two skill descriptions are mixed up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
  20. archsorin1

    archsorin1

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
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    nicee i like this map